Interview: Imran Khan on Elections and Boycott

Thank you for asking a direct question about minority rights and Imran's views on treatment meted to Ahmadis as an example. As usual he dodged the question and answered it with usual liberal sprinklings and BS about fundamental rights. Imran is known to not make any noise on sensitive issues like these, or share an open opinion...where is the TI philosphy and action when it came to Mukhtaran Mai or the rape in Baluchistan by an army officer? Seeking justice against Altaf to garner punjabi votes on anti-mohajir sentiment is easy...Imran is still far from being a leader. He deserves a seat or two in the NA where he can make noise....or more if the constitution allows 12-14 year olds to vote.

Tahmed sahib,

Being of the "Peon of the West kanjaroon" mentality myself it is not very often I disagree with you and agree with Masadi sahib. But on the issue of sacrifice I do. Masadi sahib is right when he says that when you buy and slaughter an animal and feed it to the poor and deprived (as opposed to eating it YOURSELF) you are doing some kind of a sacrifice or if not that a good deed at least.

Regards

Re: # 77 Please do not use words about elected person president. Even if one does like elected person do not go on insulting post of president. He is little down but not out and will be there for 5 years and then one more term. President is manupulating us president with buggy man of Taliban and he is at same time contacts with Talibans. He is going to keep good relationships with Taliban for future. When usa leaves may be next 10 years then he can make "business" with them.He has canned BB by being magnanomous by issueing NRO and BB is doing his work so Justice Choudhari will not be back to hound him. That is killing two birds with one stone. Altaf is guarding his backyard and BB is in vanguard.If BB starts doing trouble he can discard NRO and put in docks put her in prison. Kayani is his chosen man a satrap in army. So general does have no problems of survival. Still election is far away and he is ready to do his duties when needed.
Musharaff has done great sacrafice for survival of nation has eaten his words of not allowing BB and NS back. He has to be pragmatic when your bankers tell you to do ( President of usa suggests ). Without great in flows of dollars and military enhancement by 1 billion aid military balance is slowly shiftimg to our advantage against India. And with all that equipment and specially helicopter gunship at proper time backbone of India will be broken and she will sue for give and take kashmir issue.With american army in vivinity India has to shut up and do coolie code work. Musharaff is what usa wants as all terror fighting group , its life line is Pakistan refineries, which arm and fuel and war machine of west. They are dependent on pakistan and musharaff , if he goes all can fail down so they have put their additional ace protecting their interests PPP life president. As mr. Aga Amin said before Pakistan problems are not external but national ethinic eruptions and they were coming stronger he has good incite and premonation and he is hearing distinct drum heats. He correctly said god forbid Punjabis fighting sindh for water and b.stan for gas and Hindustani muslims for national assertions. President has capped two ethinic problems. Startegy is to keep BB weak and in so nationalists of sindh out and He beinging Hindustani Muslim Mqm sticks to normal politics and altaf ask his troops to keep calm and cooperate with parties aligned with General. Only problem is B.Stan and one problem ethinic problem can be handled by army means. As all non baloach knows if B.Stan get control of Gas prices they can raise to $6 to 7 dollars match international prices all economy will had heart stroke. At 1/3 prices of gas industry and power industry and all manufacturing is subsidised. Musharaff greatness lies in making balochi assets national assets and interests of all others against B.National interests.That rules out sympathy for BLA and that type of terror tactics oriented politics. Also just like karachi is controlled Hinustani Muslims, quetta is contorolled by Pathans. Pathans interest and balochi interest are discordent and pathan leadership supports army over balochis interests. ( They may cry with baloachi but after words they will party with Punjabi army and MQM dominated supreme leadership. Musharaff has cut ethinic problems successfully. Hopefully you will thank him and preserved nation of centrifugal tendencies will break country of ethinic problems. Good night.

masadi: you say "Who funds the institution that I work at (besides the student's fees) is not my concern. "

This is the third time you have proved yourself to be a hypocrite on this one board (the first two times already noted below). And a peon wage slave as well.

And guess what - it also makes you a peon who works for an institution funded by the US, and a hypocrite who then spends his time on chowk trying to paint the US as the source of all evil.

No wonder a two-faced loser like you is challenged meeting even the low bar that chowk places with respect to behavior towards other posters.

#76 mr. madani: your "rising sun" mr. musharraf is trying hard to be the peon of the west - but the west thinks he smells like rotten fish. could you perhaps recommend him for peon-ship?

Re: # 75 Mr.Masadi do not get disturbed by red flagging for you will not show white flag and surrender, you need to moderate language and you tell truth and its bitter for peons of west, so sugar coat it and feed them , it is needed for knowledge improvement and enhancing independent thinking devoid of mental suppression done to people of this country by western elites and local brown elites.You and mr. Amin have brains not brain washed by western propaganda , I am learning lot from both. Its good YLH is not here as he was extreme critical of you unfairly with long widening logical hyperbolies. I suggest you never address to any individual as you are trying to show and inducing people to think and elites can not tolerates deviation from well beanten, over used wrong routes.
I wish all good id and happy new year for non believers and anti god people.

Regarding red flagging your posts, when they are devoid of any substance and contain only ad hominem and insults against those you disagree with, they need to be red flagged, unlike your BS redflagging of my very substantive posts....

tahmed writes "and now you are a hypocrite by talking of "american barbarism" when in fact you earn your living from money provided by american taxpayers. "

There is no hypocrisy involved in American barbarism, Iraq is a clear and striking example in the present. Regarding how I earn my living, I earn it teaching sociology, that is what I get paid for, no tax payer has ever given me a dime. Who funds the institution that I work at (besides the student's fees) is not my concern. My concern is telling the truth to the students. You on the other hand have made a living worshipping the US elite and selling your soul for a few dollars and that involves perverting all truth involved in any discussion. Shame on your miserable soul and shame on your pathetic existence...

Re: # 71

Massaddi Mian:
"I have a question for you.
"...As you all would have noted here is another devoid of substance post by tahmed....."
What is your definition of substance, does your substance include your abusive language?"

Anil sahib -- go easy on masadi sahib for his "abusive language" -- as they say in Persian: "nesh-e aqrub nu uz paye keeN ust/muqtazaaye tabeeutush eeN ust" -- never mind the venomous sting of a scorpion -- it is not out of the rancor that it inflicts the abuse -- it is in the nature of the beast.

#53 #56

"i do enjoy the kaleeji/gurday/kapooray, the tikkas and the grilled lamb chops ..."

ah those good old days of mutton pilau with the bhoons mix of "kaleeji, gurda, dil, chusta and phephraa" -- but be careful Hamidm mian and iahmed -- that mouth watering organ meat is loaded with cholesterol and is a no no artery clogger -- every good thing including Johnny Walker is getting medically haram these days -- medicine is looking more and more like masadi miaN's killjoy ascetic Islam....:)

Re: # 67

Massaddi Mian:

I have a question for you.

"...As you all would have noted here is another devoid of substance post by tahmed....."

What is your definition of substance, does your substance include your abusive language?

Re: # 67 Thanks mr. Masadi for answering properly. I have not been to usa but there is mechanized slaughter of animals also. Only moral right has people who avoid meat and exploiting animals for their flesh. There is no difference in processed meat it is dead animals. Now there are people who avoid this things they consider animals as part of their friends and they do not eat friends. They have rights to say but who indulge in eating animals and they objecting is not honest.
Most animals produced in Usa good parts are eaten by nice white people and dirty hhazardous parts are processes for dark people abd fat addicted white and all brown and blak people. They want people addicted fat ladden processed meat "byproducts" consumed by poor people. This ia best way to dispose of grease and fats feed poor people. Now most poor and dark and browns are starving in usa and england so feed fat laden stuff and make ready for heart, diabetic problems and then medical companyis come in picture to deal medical probloems for poor. I read statistics some where in left paper balcks are extremely be come over weigh by 30% on average and black women fed cheap subsidized fat feed and has destroyed their race. Then to damage more white bosses do not marry fat white women so they marry overweight black women and then mixed overweight over fat children. The cycle is repeated agfain and agin to destroy healty black race. First they feed all left over fat as good nutrious food and then black man eats that food and they advice to loose wieght, only he eats double fat and adds skim milk glass and diet soda to cut calories. Elites are will do anything to make money. Once Russian leader Vladimar Ullanov Lenin said Capitalist will sell us ropes to hang them.
Sorry little out of focus writing , its night sleepy so excuse for mental deliquencies and my mind is not working well today. Sorry for not being logical. But its hypocrite attitude is correct as Masadi say

masadi: one more thing: chowk staff know who red-flagged a post - so, when you red-flag my post below when there is nothing in it that violates chowk guidelines, you are probably giving them a good laugh.

#67 masadi: what part of "i discuss issues with people who are able to pass chowk's low bar on behavior towards others." are you having difficulty understanding?

Of course you are a hypocrite by claiming that killing of animals is a "sacrifice". and now you are a hypocrite by talking of "american barbarism" when in fact you earn your living from money provided by american taxpayers.

Re #66. As you all would have noted here is another devoid of substance post by tahmed. He does not address a single point I have raised, contrary to that the hypocrite puts a label of hypocrisy on calling animal slaughter a sacrifice when I did no such thing, I merely highlighted the charity aspect of it as a "sacrifice". Tahmed who has been thoroughly and completely exposed due in part to my posts here only evokes laughter by his so called "sincere" attempts that are clothed as humanism while promoting American barbarism. Not only can he not address a single point raised in my posts he tries to hide behind tricks and dishonesty like redflagging my posts and getting me banned from posting. And note that he knows how thoroughly I have busted his name and posts on here, that is why like a drowning man clutching at straws the weasel is trying to get me banned time and again....

#65 masadi: i discuss issues with people who are able to pass chowk's low bar on behavior towards others. that low bar is obviously beyond your ability to pass - and you are like the village madman who tries to get attention from passers-by by abusing them.

That is the reason when i chose to write you a post, i just discuss only you - why it is you who is a hypocrite (and your repeating your half-brained excuses for the killing of animals and calling it "sacrifice" simply makes you a hypocrite who repeats himself).

i didnt red flag your post below, and whoever did is quite right in doing so given that repeat violaters of chowk guidelines like you need to be brought to the attention of chowk staff.

As you can see tahmed and his chaprasee have again redflagged my post in order to get me banned for my ideas and ideas alone. I hope the chowk staff are smart enough to recognize these dishonest games they play

nasah writes "'Sacrifice' my foot -- the mass murder of poor animals to make God happy -- is a practice of the 14th century barbarian morality -- that has also filtered in Islamist's Jihad as the homicide bombing"

Domesticated animals are raised for food purposes, there would be no "mass" of them were it not for their food value. Meat eating by humans goes back a lot longer than the 14th century dimwit and the practice of sacrificing your wealth to feed the poor, emulating Ibrahim after the Hajj season goes back a lot longer than even the 7th century. Linking that to the modern US war on terror BS about Islamic Jihad is the most outrageous stretch of dishonest propaganda that I have read here to date...

Re: # 32 Posted by bulleya on December 21, 2007 10:38:09 am

[.....imran khan might defeat everyone in a 1-1 race, but he needs to develop a constituency for his party, which is unique........]

There is nothing unique about IK. He is totally with the mullahs, and he is not a winnable politician. He has no political agenda, hence nothing to offer to the country on a wider scale. In a parliamentary system, the party is important. His maverick style to attack mafiaso boss Alt-F for the May 12 carnage in Karachi was admirable, but he could not or he did not achieve anything.

nasah writes "How primitive and aborrhent ...."

Primitive and abhorrent does not describe the supermarket when you go there to buy meat to eat. Ever visited the slaugheter house in America? That is what "primitive and barbaric" looks like. Primitive and barbaric is the meaningless slaughter of of the Bison by the white man to intimidate the natives, leading to its extinction nearly, primitive is not spending your money to ensure the poor get the same kind of food atleast this one season that you are used to year round. Nothing primitive either about the slaughter of animals for food nor in the method of slaughter that is more humane that the BS going on in American slaughter houses...

in #60 read "here merely turns what I write about him "

as "he merely turns what I write about him

tahmed writes "masadi: it is you who is spineless ...."

Once again we get a devoid of substance post from tahmed. here merely turns what I write about him (with facts and proof) around with no substance, arguing at the level of a third grade child..." you the fool, no you the fool...." That is the best we expect from peons of the West. The sacrifice is not the "animal", it is the thought behind sacrificing what you love, giving it to others for helping them, in the way of God. As the Quran says, "neither the blood nor the meat of the animal reaches Allah..." He knows this and he knows the charity aspect behind it but he wants to deliberately use it to cover up the gluttony and shopping high (during thanksgiving and Christmas) of the objects of his worship, the white man and his customs....

Re: # 55

hamidm2 sahib,

Sheikh Rasheed has been instrumental in getting Geo TV back on the air. Its common knowledge that Govt or establishment wanted Geo to part ways with Dr Shahid Masood, but Geo resisted and it was the Sheikh from Pindi who used his good offices to get a reprieve for the dumbass Dr Masood. As a courtesy, Sheikh Sahib appeared in Dr Shahid Masood's first program post emergency, during this interview the Sheikh was frank to the extent of being brash and thats why I love this politician. According to the Sheikh, post election he intends to mend fences with the Sharif's and Maulvi Diesel will play a very important role in the next setup.

Re: # 23 Posted by hamidm2 on December 21, 2007 6:36:00 am

[.... on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something .....]

Agreed. If he can get the slander lawsuit against Musharraf going. For once, if we could develop a society of slander lawsuits going, we might tone down the huffing and puffing of a lot of Pakistanis, especially the punjabi brand. What do you think?

hamidm: i dont live in pindi anymore, so if sheikh rashid is good for the locals, fine with me.

it is musharraf who is the problem - since he looks to the military for legitimacy, not the people. See his latest statements - claiming he is now stronger because...hold on to your hat...he is in general kiyani's right side!!

hamidm: enjoy the mutton-palau by all means. and announce your enjoyment too. i dont have a problem with that. what i have a problem with is saying this is a "sacrifice". in return for which God will will give you sawaab.

eid mubarak (the tradition - not to be confused with Islam).

Re: # 53

tahmed,

......... sheikh rashid is a real politician because he understands the first law of politics: "all politics is local" .........you obvioulsy don't live in pindi ...

..... however, i am a little concerned that his association with pml-q might do him in this time, specially since he is up against javed hashmi - another good man ........ i wish he could have made up with nawaz sharif, but .... but who knows, if he wins he still might turn lota and join him if he is able to form a government with ppp ....... the people of pindi need him .....

shikh rashid zindabad !

tahmed and nasah,

...... i think both of you are going a little overboard on this one .......... even though i don't like the idea of 'sacrificing' a poor goat at the altar of the moon god, i do enjoy the kaleeji/gurday/kapooray, the tikkas and the grilled lamb chops ........ i guess you could go to the butcher shop and buy all this stuff, but it is not the same ...... there is something fiendisly satisfying about seeing the poor animal lying on the ground with blood gushing out of it slit jugular, making those gurgling death noises, and jerking its legs ........ let's not throw out the only fun part of a rather joyless religion .....

eid mubarak .......

hamidm #50 sheikh rashid may not have run the railways on time...but he did run them off the rails.

masadi: it is you who is spineless (abusing from the safety of the keyboard), and it is you who is the hypocrite (trying to portray the slaughter of animals as being a "sacrifice"), and it is you who is beholden to the US elite (whom you see as being the Almighty force without whose permission a sparrow may not fall). Your obsession with me (devoting post after post to extolling my evilness) would be flattering - if were not such a pathetic individual seeking "to rise to the top" by ranting on chowk!!

#48 nasah: agreed with most of what you write. one thing i should point out though: on animal "sacrifice", no one calls the thanksgiving turkey a "sacrifice". rather, it is considered a "tradition" and no one thinks he is scoring points with God by slaughtering a turkey.

As far as I can tell - in olden times, superstitious people around the world did animal "sacrifices" to appease the gods. Today, muslims are the last people left on earth who still do animal "sacrifices" anymore. Not just maulvis - this practice is widespread in muslim countries. What a disgrace for a people whose religion was once way ahead of its times (those times being the 7th century!!).

a real politician

....... this morning i talked to a dozen friends and family in rawalpindi and am happy to report that every single one of them plans to vote for sheikh rashid even though they are against pml-q and wish he would have stood as an independent ........ when asked why, everyone gave the same simple answer:" he has done a lot for pindi"

........ at the same time they are a little worried that even though he will get elected he might not get a ministership in the new government so that he can fulfill his promises...... "if he is elected he will make sure that the leh expresssway gets built", said one poor guy stuck in traffic at committee chowk an hour after leaving saddar - a journey that used to take ten minutes ten years ago ........"you should have taken rawal road, instead of dreaming about the leh expressway" i heard his wife screaming in the background ...... sheik rashid built rawal road .......

..... compared to sheik rashid, imran khan is a neophyte ..... and the sad part is that most of the people i talked too will tell you that they wish they could vote for imran khan, but they can't - the guy doesn't know what he is doing ....

sheikh rashid zindabad !

#48 wrong place.

Imran is a good-hearted principled Samurai -- who would rather commit Hara-Kiri for a principle by killing his principle alongwith himself -- than fight an election.

"masadi: That is a lame bakra of an excuse you make for killing poor animals and calling it sacrifice, i.e. the excuse that you "sacrificed" your money to buy the poor animal. Understand this: you "spend", not "sacrifice", money to buy food!!"(tahmed)

you can say that again -- tahmed.

'Sacrifice' my foot -- the mass murder of poor animals to make God happy -- is a practice of the 14th century barbarian morality -- that has also filtered in Islamist's Jihad as the homicide bombing.

How primitive and aborrhent -- that you can please God by the cruel massacre of God's animals big and small in millions and millions years after years for centiuries.

It is no better than the pagan Americans -- killing millions of Turkeys for their barbaric thanksgiving day every year -- for no thanks to that the blind "Creator" -- who supposedly created America for the red Indians but gave it to the white Americans.

Both thankssgiving and Baqar-e Eid -- are by no means a "happy thanksgiving" or "Happy Eid" -- for the poor animals -- both should be banned in civilized countries as cruelities against animals.

Re: # 45

Massaddi Mian:

At least in this post you are not abusive and finally decided to use illogical logic of your obsession with / theory of Elites. It is good to know that despite your obsession you decide to not involve yourself in abusive language. You do have a great mind, I must say.

Re: # 44 Basically the prices in Karachi are so high that unless one have place ( parents living ) even with good salary its hard to live with salary which is good. In smaller cities it is possible but why they will accept foreign trained people when they can find people to do same work at very low price. Any little piece of land is like gold. It appears all overworld major cities are making impossible for young nonnative almost impossible economically.

anil writes "World changes a lot. Read what Tahmed sahib wrote only a few weeks ago"

What he wrote or didn't write is immaterial. His likes and dislikes fluctuate with the desires of the US elite. His ideas about benazir and Musharraf have similarly fluctuated as have his ideas regarding the Mujahideen of the 1980s and the Taliban of the 1990s....The guy is as spineless as they come, you are a very close second...

Re: # 38 Generally what type of salaries expected to get ?

What is average cost to live in big city like Karachi ? The price of living place is so high how a person with no base
can afford bye ?
I am told except IT all others have no great salary.
Thanks

Re: # 42

Massaddi Mian:

Another possibility is that you may have lost short term memory , or never had one. That can explain Tahmed Sahib issue, and your course between 7th Century and Mills.

Re: # 41

Massaddi Mian:

World changes a lot. Read what Tahmed sahib wrote only a few weeks ago.

For you the run is between 7th Century and Mills.

Anil writes : " am convinced you are dyslexic and reading challenge too. Tahmed sahib corrected and said Khan sahib should be active in politics"


Unlike Anil (and I will spare the expletives for now) who has no clue about what he writes. I know exactly what tahmed said. Reproduced under is a quote from him from 2006 that he recently repeated in our political discussions a few months back as well:



"#37 Posted by tahmed32 on December 26, 2006 5:57:10 am
#36 Good summary. I had the chance a few years ago to listen to Iram Khan speak politics and ask questions. I asked him one question: Given his ability to raise funds as demonstrated by the cancer hospital, why not just work outside the government (rather than wasting his time in politics) to start up more schools and hospitals in Pakistan?

His answer: In Pakistan it is very difficult to get anything done unless you had political power.

That didnt strike me as a particularly straight answer. "

URL: http://www.chowk.com/interacts/11483/1/0/176#304511

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Re: # 32

bulleya,

Pakistan is a federation that has a Parliamentary form of Govt, for people like IK to succeed they need to establish political parties with grass root support. Unfortunately, does not have the political stature, patience, vision or sincerity that basically annuls the personality and makes the part supreme. IK like all other political lotas suffers from the same dictatorial, selfish tendencies thus the Tehreek e Imran rather than the Tehreek e Insaaf.

Ch Aitezaz in my opinion is a far bigger personality than IK , CH Aitezaz has done what no other politician has ever dared to even imagine for one very simple reason, CA was sincere in his cause whereas all of the political leaders have their selfish agendas. Sadly, CA has to work with PPP, that is his vote bank, without PPP, Chaudhry Sahib cannot even think of contesting from anywhere in Pakistan.

As for the feudal, piri mureedi culture that is a fact of life and by the way Chaudhry Aitezaz Hussein does not come from a humble background, his roots are also from a feudal family and his grandfather was reputed to have resisted schooling for the locals in his area. Same can be said for Imran Khan Niazi, literally born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Point being, whether they are rich or poor should not matter, what matters to the voter is their political sincerity, manifesto and credentials.

Same

Urstruly #: ...there is nothing stopping anyone from returning to pakistan.......economically, pakistan is doing better than it has done in thirty five years.......had musharraf not created this judiciary fiasco, i would have started to, slowly, change my rating of pakistan from sell to hold......

....i am spending a lot of time with pakistani companies now.......they are looking for people with experience in usa........uptil the point that pakistan had not gotten into the bombing of waziristan, with the couter explosions in pakistan, pakistanis had actually started returning to pakistan, in quite a large number....pakistanis born in uk were actually coming to pakistan......and at very high salaries......

i believe you are a engineer.......you won't have any problems finding a good well paying job in pakistan......the private sector in pakistan is quite a lucrative place, and is, generally, a nice place to work.....,

on the other hand, if you are not interested in going back to pakistan, there is nothing wrong with that......it's everyone's personal choice.......

however, in such a case, could i request you to hold off on the drama-baazi......it makes all us pakistanis look bad......it is no different than maulana fazl's drama-bazi..

p.s. email your resume to me.....i shouldn't have too much problem hooking your up with the right people.......

Re: # 35

Tahmed sahib:

"....and may Allah give you a flying horse that leaves arjun's flying pig coughing in the dust while hamidm watches in envy while lying flat on his back outside the bar after having had one too many ...."

Too much in one sentence.
Eid mubarak ho, if it is too late, then in advance.

Re: # 29

Massaddi Mian:

"...Hypocrisy thy name is tahmed. Here is a person who was preaching to us as well as to IK that he should stay out of politics and concentrate on his charity work like Eidi, and now he does a turnaround,..."

I am convinced you are dyslexic and reading challenge too. Tahmed sahib corrected and said Khan sahib should be active in politics, in answer to my suggestion for Khan sahib to concentrate on other things than politics.

There are classes available for the dyslexics and reading challenged.

nasah: eid mubarak to you too.

and may Allah give you a flying horse that leaves arjun's flying pig coughing in the dust while hamidm watches in envy while lying flat on his back outside the bar after having had one too many .

#23 hamidm: so what did i say? i said that Imran Khan was part of the solution. not the solution.

Aitezaz Ahsan's son was sharp as a razor when he dealt with Musharraf's three clowns who were sent over to the US to put lipstick on a pig (to borrow from arjun's repertoire of three phrases that he has been using up all these years). So, if the tree is close to the apple that fell from it, I think Aitezaz is one smart cookie too (to mix metaphors). But, again, it is not about one personality only. There are thousands of Aitezaz Ahsan's who are fighting to liberate Pakistan from the Hosni Mubarak-wannabe.

Re: # 10 Urstruly ["...They have made it impossible for people like us to earn rizq-e-halal in Pakistan..."]

What a cop-out and a terribly lame excuse.

There is pleanty of rizk-i-hilal... believe me, I am presently (as of six months ago) living in Pakistan and will perhaps do so for a few more years if not longer (despite the "noise pollution" my neighborhood mosques spew out before dawn every morning), and I didn't even have the same "longings" as you profess to have.

# 10 Urstruly ["... Yes we have money and all that that money can buy but nothing can replace even a spec of dust that flies on the dusty roads in Pakistan..."]

Commone back... rizk-i-hilal is everywhere here, but you seem to be addicted to gluttony, and THAT is what you won't find here, at least not in hilal form.

Re: # 10 Urstruly ["...I am .. forced to live in this cold, bland and godforsaken place..."]

No one is forcing you except your materialist greed and gluttony. If you are THAT miserable, why the hell are you there.

I left America for a lot less. Had no problems with my surroundings and social set-up. In fact I love much about America's people and civil society. Yet we decided to leave there because of certain fundamental principles. And if things revert back to the mean some day we shall return.

You, on the other hand, despite your crocodile tears, continue to fund the Pentagon with your tax dollars and continue to be a passive accomplice to the crimes against humanity that you continue to decry. Your hypocracy is shameful.

# 10 Urstruly ["...Not a day goes by when my eyes are not welled up thinking about the streets and people I grew up with Damn them! Be God's curse upon them! for they stolen my country from me..."]

This is just a lot of dramma. I am ashamed of you. I was not sure about you until today and always gave you the benefit of doubt thinking that you might actually be sincere, but only misguided. But this message has betrayed your true colors. You sir are a dramma baz munafiq ...

...SR

...there are three politicians whose name i have always highlighted as good prospects for the future - imran and aitezaz - both are out of the race.....the third was omer asghar khan, who passd away a few years ago....

...imran khan will always be the voice of conscious of pakistan........however, he needs a constituency.......he will never be able to compete against ppp and pml as long as pakistan's politics is based on feudalism and piri-faqiri - nearly all of whom are in ppp and pml......

.......aitezaz has a constituency......the lawyers.....he has clearly indicated his loyalties are with the lawyers over the ppp......

.....a few interesting developments.....pml's feudals and pirs are now, almost totally out of the pml(n) and are all in pml(q)......so pml(n) is now an urban upper class party...none of its top leaders - nawaz, shahbaz, javed hashmi, raja zafar, chaudhry nisar, khwaja saad, etc. are feudals or pirs.......

ppp is all filled with feudals and pirs at its top end - benazir, amin fahim, gilani, shah mehmood etc........the one top guy, who was no a pir - aitezaz - has parted ways.....(jehangir badr and raza are two others, but insignificant)...

...since 62% or so of pakistani politics is still based on piri and feudalism/tribalism, one would have to conclude that ppp and pml(q) will win the most seats, as this part of politics is relatively unaffected by other factors.......

mqm has the largest non-feudal votebase, however, it is totally with musharraf......jui(f) has the second highest, and it is with musharraf.......

much will depend on what ppp does......does it roll over towards musharraf or does it roll towards the non-feudal/non-pir group.......it doesn't belong with either......

aitezaz ahsan should start his own political party and separate out from the ppp......he has nothing in common with benazir etc.....

.....imran khan might defeat everyone in a 1-1 race, but he needs to develop a constituency for his party, which is unique........

musharraf has things well organized......he rigs elections to get pml(q) around a third of the seats.....this combined with mqm and jui and ppp (sherpao) gives him almost enough for a majority....then he offers benazir some carrots to join in or threatens her party members, and gets a majority.......

back to square one - though he will need 2/3rd majority to get indemnity for his actions.......that he cannot do even with rigging........for that he will need all of ppp's vote.....he was able to do it last time, with mma vote......what will he do this time........

In addition to #29, and finally IK should give up his "romance" with his ex-wife who spat him out like used chewing gum and quit acting like a "peon of the West" in that field. Politics is about the life and death of the Pakistani people, it is not about sending impression making emails to the love of your life who has discarded you and at the time thought of you and your kids as horse shit....

watch tahmed and his chaprasee redflag my post because they are mortally afraid of anyone busting the mythology of white supremacy and Western overlordship. They stand exposed...

tahmed, peon of the West writes "does that mean imran khan is irrelevant to pakistan politics (like everyone on chowk, e.g.)? of course not. he has served as a rallying point for students"

Hypocrisy thy name is tahmed. Here is a person who was preaching to us as well as to IK that he should stay out of politics and concentrate on his charity work like Eidi, and now he does a turnaround, why? because the desire of the US elite coincided with using Imran as a "niche". That is the only principle he abides by this tahmed fellow, that of unconditional worship of the Western elite.

The IK needs to understand the rules of the game, as an outsider shouting against the powers that be, based on his celebrity value (the apathy factor which doesn't work in politics)he will achieve nothing except for being a "niche" in attaining the desires of the powers that be at various times. He will be used and discarded as a whore (pardon my expression but I am sincere to him unlike tahmed). He needs to figure out how to become a part of the establishment using whatever means necessary and then play the role that he is playing on the outside at this moment...

Eid Mubarak -- hamidm, tahmed and Arjun miaN on his flying pig.

Re: # 26

arjun,

... can you change that to a flying horse named buraq ? ...... and please don't mention the word 'pig' on this forum unless you want your mouth washed out with soap .....

#24 Posted by nasah on December 21, 2007 7:28:47 am


I will put my money on him -- the future prime minister of a secular Pakistan.


My money is on the flying pig..

Re: # 24

nasah mian,

.... like you and the proverbial cat, i too dream of scraps from the butcher shop ! ..... eid mubarak

Re: # 23

"on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him ....... "

I will put my money on him -- the future prime minister of a secular Pakistan.

Re: # 21

tahmed mian,

.... imran khan is as relevant to pakistan politics as maulana bhashani, nawabzada nasrullah khan and air marshall asghar khan ....... you can argue about maulana bhashani, but the other two were definitely well meaning men with a habit of pissing in the wind and getting themselves wet along with their handful of followers ...... he is their present day gadhi nasheen ....

.... on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him .......

Re: # 16
"They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force".

Externally imposed? And who allowed it to be "imposed" on us? After independence in 1947, we had the opportunity to determine how we would shape our society, what type of institutions and social behavior we would accept or reject as free people. But we rejected freedom after God(SWT) gave it to us preferring, instead, to remain slaves to whatever oppressive authority that tried to assert itself.

If I grabbed you by the collar and tried to forcibly push you over the edge of a cliff, would you, at least, resist?

"Externally imposed" indeed! hum ne azadi ke mafhoom ko samjha hi nahiN.

"Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty".

By all means let us understand the game; but no one said that we have to then accept it and remain forever a prisoner to its rules. Nations which prospered did not remain shackled by the chains of outdated systems; they developed new ones more suited to their socio-psychological needs. But no matter how much someone screamed to us ke,

"kaifiat baaQi puraane koh-o sahera maeN nahiN
hae junooN tera naya, paeda nayaa veerana kar",

his wails fell only on deaf ears.

"You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments".

Nothing in what I wrote restrains one from thinking at the social/institutional level. Before anything else, though, we needed - and, after 60 years, still need - to establish what we want to be? Where we want to go? We have not even done that. We have no consensus on anything. The result is the unappetizing soup of secularist, socialist, capitalist, obscurantist, militant/extremist visions whose forces keep pulling us every which way.

aur hum itne sada loh haen ke:

"chalte haen thoRi dur har ek rehguzar ke saath
pehchaante nahiN haen abhi raahbar ko hum"

"Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......"

It did not occur to me that he was trying to be God's spokesman. He was only stating his perceptive understaning of God's Sunnah; and itsounds quite plausible. If your vanity must rebut it, go find us some examples of nations that sat on their butt, steeped in corruption and outdated oppressive customs, and whom God Rewarded with rivers of milk and honey.

But talk is cheap. Why don't you stick to what you are good at; namely blowing your own trumpet and trying to put down others in vain.
Abu Bakr(RA) and his faith is not your cup of tea.

#20 muqaddam: it not so simple as that. what imran khan lacks is organizing ability. thus - there are plenty of people who know the right answer and are perfectly well-meaning (everyone on chowk, e.g.). but there are very few people who have the organizing ability and the drive to build up a grass-roots movement.

does that mean imran khan is irrelevant to pakistan politics (like everyone on chowk, e.g.)? of course not. he has served as a rallying point for students, e.g. and students, once they take to the streets, can serve to bring dictators down (as in 1969). so, imran khan plays a useful niche role in Pakistan politics. He may not be the solution, but he is part of the solution.

Imran Khan comes across as an honest and sincere man who feels for the people. It is a pity that he has not been able to make a real dent in Pakistani politics. It is no wonder, because only scoundrels can thrive in politics.

Re: # 11 o kaddu , tu bara sincere hai.

Re: # 14 lets hope that this occupation army is booted out.

Re: # 16 viqar is 200 % right .

viqarm writes "Yes, the fauj is napak in Pak; but those in fauj come from among us; they are not aliens"

They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force. Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty. You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments. Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......

Re: # 10 Urstruly
I can feel your pain. But we, ourselves, are far more to blame than anyone else. We chickened out and left; and choose to stay away. Of those who remain, many do simply because they don't have the choice that you and I had. Then there are some courageous ones who stay and fight. That is what is needed to change things. That is what we did not do.

Yes, the fauj is napak in Pak; but those in fauj come from among us; they are not aliens. The lack of character across the board leads to lack of mutual trust. It helps to create the dog-eat-dog world that we have. That is what those, who had foresight, had told us we would have.

"Never did it happen that a people ceased to struggle and Allah(SWT) did not Make humiliation and debasement their portion".

I leave you with those words from Abu Bakr(RA)to contemplate.

Leaving aside benazir, who is an opportunist and self-serving for her own political survival and merely using her inherited electorate for personal salvation from penalties of corruption cases, there is overall agreement on the restoration of Judiciary amongst the others. However, there are two very clear tactical means to achieve the same result. One is to boycott, the other is to participate. Weighing the likelihood of success of each, the boycott option seems weak with Benazir bent upon participating and sacrificing the judiciary in return for favorable accommodation by musharraf. Her participation will enable an easy 2/3rd parliamentary majority for an 18th amendment to seal the power of the troika (COAS/President/PM) for a long time to come when the purpose of the boycott is to eliminate altogether the role of the army/President in politics and restore the same to the Parliament as envisaged in 1973 constitution. Thus, the Boycott option would be counter-productive.

Participation, on the other hand, will enable the opposing politicians to mobilize the masses around the demand of restoration of Judiciary and Constitution, sit in the assemblies and block all moves at legitimization of Nov 3rd, and wait for the right time to strike once the civil-society movement led by Ch. Aitezaz (this time with even more vigour than seen before during the CJ movement - then it was only the lawyers - now there're all hitherto apolitical sections of civil-society) gains critical mass. That will be the time when real change will occur.

As Aitezaz said upon his short release for Eid yesterday (promptly revoked today after his following remarks amongst other):

"Let them enjoy this mela (festival) of 8th January and have their fun. The real game will begin later.

Re: # 12

There is a time and place for everything; and this is not the time and place to weasel your hindutva agenda in here. Please keep in mind that by 1948 about 13.5 million refugees eneterd into Pakistan and by 1951 when exchange of poppulation was officially over, over 20 million refugees had entered Pakistan. Someone stole their country too. Was it you?

Re: # 10

What is the big deal? You kick some, you
get kicked some.
You hounded out hinjews and sikhs out of
their homeland, somebody else hounded you
out of your homeland.
They have no chance of getting it back
and so do you. Live with it.

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Dear Imran,

There are not enough words to thank you for standing up for us exiled, disenfranchised, and voiceless people. People like me have lost their country because of a corrupt ruling elite that has its fangs dug deep into our jugulars. They have made it impossible for people like us to earn rizq-e-halal in Pakistan any more. They just change faces and change clothes to oppress us anew everytime a change is promised to us. I have very little faith in Pakistani politicians and I think that they should all be lined up against the wall and be shot. Because of them and the their strong arm, the napak and lawless fouj mafia, today I am and many like me are forced to live in this cold, bland and godforsaken place. Yes we have money and all that that money can buy but nothing can replace even a spec of dust that flies on the dusty roads in Pakistan. Not a day goes by when my eyes are not welled up thinking about the streets and people I grew up with. Damn them! Be God's curse upon them! for they stolen my country from me. I am putting my faith in you, a politician, for the very last time, for it is written on the wall that if this corrupt, oppressive, pro-western ruling elite fails to recognize what people are asking of them this time then their next meeting with the people would be at the guillotine park. They have no sense of the gravity of the situtaion. Please do not betray us.

imran khan is a great man. urduspeakers fear him and are jealous of him although he has never done anything against them or said anything against them . He's frequently accused by Karachiites to have an anti Karachi bias even during his playing days. This is most preposterous. when he was made captain in 1982 the first thing he did was drop his own first cousin, the great majid khan from the side as he was out of form and included a player from Karachi in his place. later on when selectors tried to drop shoaib mohammad, another karachiite, he threatened to resign from the captaincy if he wasnt inlcuded in the team. now how in the world does this smack of anti-karachi bias.

Imran khan even once foolishly called for repatriating those so-called pakistanis known as biharis to pakistan on an urgent basis in a live BBC program called Question time pakistan in 2003. HIS exact words on the issue were "for me this is not a poliical issue, this is a human issue"

THE urduspeakers cant relish the fact that a hero of his stature is a non-urduspeaker. on top of it he is a hated pathan belonging to the accursed punjab . i think karachiites have become too used to worshipping murderers, terrorists and bhatta-khors as heroes.

... and Masadi mian has more principles than anyone else in not getting a duplicate nic for when he's banned by this kanjarsite.com, for merely calling some people peons of the west, quite accurately.

IB and fake bismillah,

It is because you'll need to get water from somewhere ... and wheat ... and electricity.

Rajasthan? Good idea.

Imran is good as long as he does not come to Karachi, Hyderabad and Urban Sind.

"Several polls by independent agencies have also indicated an increase of popularity of PTI, especially in Punjab and NWFP."

And why is that Mr Khan? Why only Punjab and NWFP?

Re: # 2

Good for Massaddi Mian..... You have more time to regurgitate between 7th century and Mills.

Re: # 2

Good for Massaddi Mian..... You have more time to regurgitate between 7th century and Mills.

The miserable chowk staff had banned me yet once again

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