Asra Nadeem December 19, 2007
#9 Posted by sonofkashmir on December 20, 2007 5:44:04 am
imran khan is a great man. urduspeakers fear him and are jealous of him although he has never done anything against them or said anything against them . He's frequently accused by Karachiites to have an anti Karachi bias even during his playing days. This is most preposterous. when he was made captain in 1982 the first thing he did was drop his own first cousin, the great majid khan from the side as he was out of form and included a player from Karachi in his place. later on when selectors tried to drop shoaib mohammad, another karachiite, he threatened to resign from the captaincy if he wasnt inlcuded in the team. now how in the world does this smack of anti-karachi bias.
Imran khan even once foolishly called for repatriating those so-called pakistanis known as biharis to pakistan on an urgent basis in a live BBC program called Question time pakistan in 2003. HIS exact words on the issue were "for me this is not a poliical issue, this is a human issue"
THE urduspeakers cant relish the fact that a hero of his stature is a non-urduspeaker. on top of it he is a hated pathan belonging to the accursed punjab . i think karachiites have become too used to worshipping murderers, terrorists and bhatta-khors as heroes.
Imran khan even once foolishly called for repatriating those so-called pakistanis known as biharis to pakistan on an urgent basis in a live BBC program called Question time pakistan in 2003. HIS exact words on the issue were "for me this is not a poliical issue, this is a human issue"
THE urduspeakers cant relish the fact that a hero of his stature is a non-urduspeaker. on top of it he is a hated pathan belonging to the accursed punjab . i think karachiites have become too used to worshipping murderers, terrorists and bhatta-khors as heroes.
#10 Posted by Urstruly on December 20, 2007 1:21:43 pm
Dear Imran,
There are not enough words to thank you for standing up for us exiled, disenfranchised, and voiceless people. People like me have lost their country because of a corrupt ruling elite that has its fangs dug deep into our jugulars. They have made it impossible for people like us to earn rizq-e-halal in Pakistan any more. They just change faces and change clothes to oppress us anew everytime a change is promised to us. I have very little faith in Pakistani politicians and I think that they should all be lined up against the wall and be shot. Because of them and the their strong arm, the napak and lawless fouj mafia, today I am and many like me are forced to live in this cold, bland and godforsaken place. Yes we have money and all that that money can buy but nothing can replace even a spec of dust that flies on the dusty roads in Pakistan. Not a day goes by when my eyes are not welled up thinking about the streets and people I grew up with. Damn them! Be God's curse upon them! for they stolen my country from me. I am putting my faith in you, a politician, for the very last time, for it is written on the wall that if this corrupt, oppressive, pro-western ruling elite fails to recognize what people are asking of them this time then their next meeting with the people would be at the guillotine park. They have no sense of the gravity of the situtaion. Please do not betray us.
There are not enough words to thank you for standing up for us exiled, disenfranchised, and voiceless people. People like me have lost their country because of a corrupt ruling elite that has its fangs dug deep into our jugulars. They have made it impossible for people like us to earn rizq-e-halal in Pakistan any more. They just change faces and change clothes to oppress us anew everytime a change is promised to us. I have very little faith in Pakistani politicians and I think that they should all be lined up against the wall and be shot. Because of them and the their strong arm, the napak and lawless fouj mafia, today I am and many like me are forced to live in this cold, bland and godforsaken place. Yes we have money and all that that money can buy but nothing can replace even a spec of dust that flies on the dusty roads in Pakistan. Not a day goes by when my eyes are not welled up thinking about the streets and people I grew up with. Damn them! Be God's curse upon them! for they stolen my country from me. I am putting my faith in you, a politician, for the very last time, for it is written on the wall that if this corrupt, oppressive, pro-western ruling elite fails to recognize what people are asking of them this time then their next meeting with the people would be at the guillotine park. They have no sense of the gravity of the situtaion. Please do not betray us.
#11 Posted by masadi on December 20, 2007 6:23:52 pm
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#12 Posted by shishapa on December 20, 2007 7:42:37 pm
Re: # 10
What is the big deal? You kick some, you
get kicked some.
You hounded out hinjews and sikhs out of
their homeland, somebody else hounded you
out of your homeland.
They have no chance of getting it back
and so do you. Live with it.
What is the big deal? You kick some, you
get kicked some.
You hounded out hinjews and sikhs out of
their homeland, somebody else hounded you
out of your homeland.
They have no chance of getting it back
and so do you. Live with it.
#13 Posted by Urstruly on December 20, 2007 8:36:28 pm
Re: # 12
There is a time and place for everything; and this is not the time and place to weasel your hindutva agenda in here. Please keep in mind that by 1948 about 13.5 million refugees eneterd into Pakistan and by 1951 when exchange of poppulation was officially over, over 20 million refugees had entered Pakistan. Someone stole their country too. Was it you?
There is a time and place for everything; and this is not the time and place to weasel your hindutva agenda in here. Please keep in mind that by 1948 about 13.5 million refugees eneterd into Pakistan and by 1951 when exchange of poppulation was officially over, over 20 million refugees had entered Pakistan. Someone stole their country too. Was it you?
#14 Posted by smellthecoffee on December 20, 2007 10:17:46 pm
Leaving aside benazir, who is an opportunist and self-serving for her own political survival and merely using her inherited electorate for personal salvation from penalties of corruption cases, there is overall agreement on the restoration of Judiciary amongst the others. However, there are two very clear tactical means to achieve the same result. One is to boycott, the other is to participate. Weighing the likelihood of success of each, the boycott option seems weak with Benazir bent upon participating and sacrificing the judiciary in return for favorable accommodation by musharraf. Her participation will enable an easy 2/3rd parliamentary majority for an 18th amendment to seal the power of the troika (COAS/President/PM) for a long time to come when the purpose of the boycott is to eliminate altogether the role of the army/President in politics and restore the same to the Parliament as envisaged in 1973 constitution. Thus, the Boycott option would be counter-productive.
Participation, on the other hand, will enable the opposing politicians to mobilize the masses around the demand of restoration of Judiciary and Constitution, sit in the assemblies and block all moves at legitimization of Nov 3rd, and wait for the right time to strike once the civil-society movement led by Ch. Aitezaz (this time with even more vigour than seen before during the CJ movement - then it was only the lawyers - now there're all hitherto apolitical sections of civil-society) gains critical mass. That will be the time when real change will occur.
As Aitezaz said upon his short release for Eid yesterday (promptly revoked today after his following remarks amongst other):
"Let them enjoy this mela (festival) of 8th January and have their fun. The real game will begin later.
Participation, on the other hand, will enable the opposing politicians to mobilize the masses around the demand of restoration of Judiciary and Constitution, sit in the assemblies and block all moves at legitimization of Nov 3rd, and wait for the right time to strike once the civil-society movement led by Ch. Aitezaz (this time with even more vigour than seen before during the CJ movement - then it was only the lawyers - now there're all hitherto apolitical sections of civil-society) gains critical mass. That will be the time when real change will occur.
As Aitezaz said upon his short release for Eid yesterday (promptly revoked today after his following remarks amongst other):
"Let them enjoy this mela (festival) of 8th January and have their fun. The real game will begin later.
#15 Posted by viqarm on December 20, 2007 10:39:35 pm
Re: # 10 Urstruly
I can feel your pain. But we, ourselves, are far more to blame than anyone else. We chickened out and left; and choose to stay away. Of those who remain, many do simply because they don't have the choice that you and I had. Then there are some courageous ones who stay and fight. That is what is needed to change things. That is what we did not do.
Yes, the fauj is napak in Pak; but those in fauj come from among us; they are not aliens. The lack of character across the board leads to lack of mutual trust. It helps to create the dog-eat-dog world that we have. That is what those, who had foresight, had told us we would have.
"Never did it happen that a people ceased to struggle and Allah(SWT) did not Make humiliation and debasement their portion".
I leave you with those words from Abu Bakr(RA)to contemplate.
I can feel your pain. But we, ourselves, are far more to blame than anyone else. We chickened out and left; and choose to stay away. Of those who remain, many do simply because they don't have the choice that you and I had. Then there are some courageous ones who stay and fight. That is what is needed to change things. That is what we did not do.
Yes, the fauj is napak in Pak; but those in fauj come from among us; they are not aliens. The lack of character across the board leads to lack of mutual trust. It helps to create the dog-eat-dog world that we have. That is what those, who had foresight, had told us we would have.
"Never did it happen that a people ceased to struggle and Allah(SWT) did not Make humiliation and debasement their portion".
I leave you with those words from Abu Bakr(RA)to contemplate.
#16 Posted by masadi on December 20, 2007 11:18:22 pm
viqarm writes "Yes, the fauj is napak in Pak; but those in fauj come from among us; they are not aliens"
They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force. Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty. You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments. Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......
They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force. Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty. You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments. Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......
#18 Posted by Tigram on December 21, 2007 12:33:04 am
Re: # 14 lets hope that this occupation army is booted out.
#20 Posted by muqaddam on December 21, 2007 1:29:49 am
Imran Khan comes across as an honest and sincere man who feels for the people. It is a pity that he has not been able to make a real dent in Pakistani politics. It is no wonder, because only scoundrels can thrive in politics.
#21 Posted by tahmed32 on December 21, 2007 2:17:50 am
#20 muqaddam: it not so simple as that. what imran khan lacks is organizing ability. thus - there are plenty of people who know the right answer and are perfectly well-meaning (everyone on chowk, e.g.). but there are very few people who have the organizing ability and the drive to build up a grass-roots movement.
does that mean imran khan is irrelevant to pakistan politics (like everyone on chowk, e.g.)? of course not. he has served as a rallying point for students, e.g. and students, once they take to the streets, can serve to bring dictators down (as in 1969). so, imran khan plays a useful niche role in Pakistan politics. He may not be the solution, but he is part of the solution.
does that mean imran khan is irrelevant to pakistan politics (like everyone on chowk, e.g.)? of course not. he has served as a rallying point for students, e.g. and students, once they take to the streets, can serve to bring dictators down (as in 1969). so, imran khan plays a useful niche role in Pakistan politics. He may not be the solution, but he is part of the solution.
#22 Posted by viqarm on December 21, 2007 6:33:00 am
Re: # 16
"They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force".
Externally imposed? And who allowed it to be "imposed" on us? After independence in 1947, we had the opportunity to determine how we would shape our society, what type of institutions and social behavior we would accept or reject as free people. But we rejected freedom after God(SWT) gave it to us preferring, instead, to remain slaves to whatever oppressive authority that tried to assert itself.
If I grabbed you by the collar and tried to forcibly push you over the edge of a cliff, would you, at least, resist?
"Externally imposed" indeed! hum ne azadi ke mafhoom ko samjha hi nahiN.
"Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty".
By all means let us understand the game; but no one said that we have to then accept it and remain forever a prisoner to its rules. Nations which prospered did not remain shackled by the chains of outdated systems; they developed new ones more suited to their socio-psychological needs. But no matter how much someone screamed to us ke,
"kaifiat baaQi puraane koh-o sahera maeN nahiN
hae junooN tera naya, paeda nayaa veerana kar",
his wails fell only on deaf ears.
"You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments".
Nothing in what I wrote restrains one from thinking at the social/institutional level. Before anything else, though, we needed - and, after 60 years, still need - to establish what we want to be? Where we want to go? We have not even done that. We have no consensus on anything. The result is the unappetizing soup of secularist, socialist, capitalist, obscurantist, militant/extremist visions whose forces keep pulling us every which way.
aur hum itne sada loh haen ke:
"chalte haen thoRi dur har ek rehguzar ke saath
pehchaante nahiN haen abhi raahbar ko hum"
"Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......"
It did not occur to me that he was trying to be God's spokesman. He was only stating his perceptive understaning of God's Sunnah; and itsounds quite plausible. If your vanity must rebut it, go find us some examples of nations that sat on their butt, steeped in corruption and outdated oppressive customs, and whom God Rewarded with rivers of milk and honey.
But talk is cheap. Why don't you stick to what you are good at; namely blowing your own trumpet and trying to put down others in vain.
Abu Bakr(RA) and his faith is not your cup of tea.
"They might come from "among us" but the institution that molds and shapes them is externally imposed, it is genuinely "alien": it is an indigeneously staffed US occupation force".
Externally imposed? And who allowed it to be "imposed" on us? After independence in 1947, we had the opportunity to determine how we would shape our society, what type of institutions and social behavior we would accept or reject as free people. But we rejected freedom after God(SWT) gave it to us preferring, instead, to remain slaves to whatever oppressive authority that tried to assert itself.
If I grabbed you by the collar and tried to forcibly push you over the edge of a cliff, would you, at least, resist?
"Externally imposed" indeed! hum ne azadi ke mafhoom ko samjha hi nahiN.
"Struggle will get you nowhere unless you understand how the game is played, just as it gets those busting their a$$ 15 hours a day day in and day out nowhere out of poverty".
By all means let us understand the game; but no one said that we have to then accept it and remain forever a prisoner to its rules. Nations which prospered did not remain shackled by the chains of outdated systems; they developed new ones more suited to their socio-psychological needs. But no matter how much someone screamed to us ke,
"kaifiat baaQi puraane koh-o sahera maeN nahiN
hae junooN tera naya, paeda nayaa veerana kar",
his wails fell only on deaf ears.
"You need to think at the social/institutional level rather than pass indiviudual moralistic judgments".
Nothing in what I wrote restrains one from thinking at the social/institutional level. Before anything else, though, we needed - and, after 60 years, still need - to establish what we want to be? Where we want to go? We have not even done that. We have no consensus on anything. The result is the unappetizing soup of secularist, socialist, capitalist, obscurantist, militant/extremist visions whose forces keep pulling us every which way.
aur hum itne sada loh haen ke:
"chalte haen thoRi dur har ek rehguzar ke saath
pehchaante nahiN haen abhi raahbar ko hum"
"Regarding your quote at the end, I doubt Allah had given Abu Bakr or anyone else the authority to pass such broad generalizations in his name......"
It did not occur to me that he was trying to be God's spokesman. He was only stating his perceptive understaning of God's Sunnah; and itsounds quite plausible. If your vanity must rebut it, go find us some examples of nations that sat on their butt, steeped in corruption and outdated oppressive customs, and whom God Rewarded with rivers of milk and honey.
But talk is cheap. Why don't you stick to what you are good at; namely blowing your own trumpet and trying to put down others in vain.
Abu Bakr(RA) and his faith is not your cup of tea.
#23 Posted by hamidm2 on December 21, 2007 6:36:00 am
Re: # 21
tahmed mian,
.... imran khan is as relevant to pakistan politics as maulana bhashani, nawabzada nasrullah khan and air marshall asghar khan ....... you can argue about maulana bhashani, but the other two were definitely well meaning men with a habit of pissing in the wind and getting themselves wet along with their handful of followers ...... he is their present day gadhi nasheen ....
.... on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him .......
tahmed mian,
.... imran khan is as relevant to pakistan politics as maulana bhashani, nawabzada nasrullah khan and air marshall asghar khan ....... you can argue about maulana bhashani, but the other two were definitely well meaning men with a habit of pissing in the wind and getting themselves wet along with their handful of followers ...... he is their present day gadhi nasheen ....
.... on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him .......
#24 Posted by nasah on December 21, 2007 7:28:47 am
Re: # 23
"on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him ....... "
I will put my money on him -- the future prime minister of a secular Pakistan.
"on the other hand aitizaz ahsan might be on to something ..... if you are looking for a dark horse, you might want to put some money on him ....... "
I will put my money on him -- the future prime minister of a secular Pakistan.
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