Aqsa Pervez: The Casualty of Patriarchy

O Haider, the Knight-at-arms, you have perhap not met any 'La Belle Dame Sans Merci' yet or I wouuld have asked you in Keat's words:

"O WHAT can ail thee, knight-at-arms,
Alone and palely loitering?
The sedge has wither’d from the lake,
And no birds sing."

"what does androcitrus mean"

jang, what androcitrus means is never clear, a tart, I guess.

what does androcitrus mean..is it something about a human neembu?

diarox, yaar these things are not so simple. They might make YOU personally sad but that doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to do them. And if it is not for men to judge others then it seems odd seeing so many rush to judgment in such cases.

I think it is sad that people and men in particular go and kill their wives daughters and sisters because they think wearing a strict uniform is the only way their women can be religious and on the "right" path. I would like to ask that man : does Allah forgive murderers?
I know women who live in North America and do not wear hijabs and yet they are often much more respectable and "naaik" than some who do have the "right apparel".
It is not for men to judge who is right and who is wrong, that is God's work. I dont know why people dont understand that their job is to teach their children and show them the right path and make them understand logically not by force... and then have faith in them to know and do the right thing.
You dont have to wear a hijab to be virtuous.

Re: # 31 Posted by aslam644 on December 23, 2007 5:47:30 am

[It seems the position of muslim women hasn’t changed much in some muslim countries since he wrote that, ....]

Aslam, it is the condition of muslim men, that I am more worried about. Generally, it is the muslim men that are present day barbarians. Wouldn't you agree?

a great civilisation is not conquered from without until, it has destroyed itself from within historian will Durant

A compassionate and tender human being, he decried the position of women in society, who he said only lived for childbearing and suckling. Moved to compassion for their misery, he wrote that women were so reduced in servitude that all their capacity for higher pursuits had been destroyed. He was saddened by their fate, stating that they only live like plants, looking after their men. This compelled him to write:
“Our society allows no scope for the development of women’s talents. They seem to be destined exclusively to childbirth and the care of children, and this state of servility has destroyed their capacity for larger matters. It is thus that we see no women endowed with moral virtues; they live their lives like vegetables, devoting themselves to their husbands. From this stems the misery that pervades our cities, for women outnumber men by more than double and cannot procure the necessities of life by their own labours.� (Ibn rushd ( averroes) a muslim philosopher in 13th century spain)
It seems the position of muslim women hasn’t changed much in some muslim countries since he wrote that, I suppose at that time the position of women in non-muslim societies wasn’t that much different but, most have progressed since then.

Prisoner24601, you do not get it.

A young girl was killed callously – merely for wanting to do what all the young girls in the society she lived in were doing day in and day out.

The father was the killer.

But the cocoon that that cuckoo-man lived in – that whole Pakistani crappy, shitty “culture� of “honor� and every agent that facilitated it – is equally guilty.

It includes his wife (if he had one – and if one could refer to a less-than-equal partner by such terms).

It includes the extended family members who tolerated and reinforced his moronic stupid mindset.

It includes his mullah who provided the seal of Godly approval to his day-in-and-day-out theater of stupidity!

None of those creeps have any more right to life than that young girl - who was unfortunate enough to be born of that moronic, dumb, stupid Pakistani - did! I would not shed a single tear if they were all to be gelded!

Morons like that person had no business moving to Canada and certainly no right to try to convert Canada into a little Pakistan or a miniature Saudi Arabia.

ha ha ha , momin paki army bombing mosques in tribal areas,bhai jan kia yai kafir hain , ham ney suna kay kaafi log in main qadiani or shia hain ?

#27 Posted by Prisoner24601 on December 22, 2007 8:40:28 pm

remember the signs on roadworks: your tax $$s at work..

they should have a sign like that for you on the mass graves of the ninja chix.

#26 "Funny you should say that considering it was your tax $$ that paid for the white phosphorus "

I certainly do not have any control over how the US government uses my tax dollars. But what is truly funny is how you used your own credit card to purchase an ultra sound machine from eBay and shipped it to your family in India...

#24 Posted by Prisoner24601 on December 22, 2007 8:07:34 pm


Again, charity should begin at home.


Funny you should say that considering it was your tax $$ that paid for the white phosphorus that baked the ninja chix..and whacked a bunch of your jihadi brothers..

#23 Posted by Eklavya on December 22, 2007 7:00:51 pm


only androcitrus bias


yup..only my ingrained "androcitrus bias" keeps me from thinking that saudi women think they should be able to drive or think 200 lashes for a rape victim isn't a good idea..

beej: [Tell you what, I shall act...

I denounce abortion here and now...]


Beej, as you perhaps already know, talk is cheap...and cheap talk is not an alternative for action. In the time that it took you to write your "denunciation", dozens of female fetuses were aborted in India. Can you look a dead female fetus in its 'eyes' and say that you only had time to "denounce" its murder, because you were too busy worrying about issues of grown women elsewhere?

Again, charity should begin at home. Let your worries and the full fire power of your rhetoric be wholly dedicated to granting female fetuses in india the right to live and grow into adult women. Until this issue is sufficiently addressed, the hindoo "men" should declare a moratorium on worrying about women's rights elsewhere. What do you say, Beej?

or do you have some skeletons in your closets you want to fess upto?

If those workforce participation rates differ, only androcitrus bias would lead us to blindly assume that Muslim women are unhappy with the situation.

It's at least possible, and perfectly plausible, that Muslim women actually enjoy and excercise their freedom to not participate in the workforce.

#21 Posted by Eklavya on December 22, 2007 4:53:41 pm


chowkid1. Participation in workforce is not the only way for ladies to contribute to their families and their communities.


that post, like all your posts, made no sense at all..

at issue here is the patriarchal structure of muslim society..something that workforce participation numbers clearly reflect...only a muslim in deep denial would say that muslim women have the same workforce participation numbers as hindu or sikh women..

chowkid1. Participation in workforce is not the only way for ladies to contribute to their families and their communities.

Instead of getting caught up in this androcitrus tangle, why not look at the broad picture?

#18 Posted by neembu on December 22, 2007 12:54:40 pm


Why is it necessary to limit patriarchy and androcentricity to only conservative Muslim communities?


yes...take a look at the rate of women's participation in the workforce for any other group..you can't tell me that's not because of "androcentricity" in the muslim community..

Re # 18 Neembusri, where did I say it was necessary? and Desis and moderate Muslims are also included. Now your turn to comment on the article.

Re: # 17

Why, Kunkil? Why is it necessary to limit patriarchy and androcentricity to only conservative Muslim communities? Isn't that a form of intellectual dissemblance?

Instead of coming up with chastity belt and patriarchic theories, just acknowledge that a murderous Muslim male killed his daughter in a rage like it happens every day in Islamic world. Jordan leading the pack of animals in Honor killing (including Israeli administered territories), followed by Egyptians, and Pakistanis not so far behind. Leave the anthropology out of Honor killings condoned by muslim awareness.

Prisoner, you are a captive...

Of your preconceived notions, ignorance, and the inability to see things for what they are.

Tell you what, I shall act...

I denounce abortion here and now...

Now it is your turn...

Denounce the primitive mindset that killed Aqsa Pervez...

Go ahead, show some guts...

Break free from your chains of servitude - which you mistakenly think are your decorative jewels...

Break away now from that eternal ghulaami, the servile mindset...

Do it NOW, if you got any guts. Do it now - or forever remain a slave!

THE prisoner!

The winds of change are blowing through Saudi Arabia, a sex shop in makkah,
Astagfirullah, what next?

ANN Summers, the sex shop and lingerie chain, has been granted permission to open 22 shops in the Middle East, including one in the holy city of Mecca.
The Telegraph has learned that "erotic stock" has already been shipped to Kuwait in preparation for the opening of the first shops in October.The branch in Saudi Arabia will be at the Mecca International Mall. Permission to open the stores was obtained through the company's Kuwait-based franchise, Makae/Top Ten International.
Ann Summers, which has a turnover of more than £53 million a year, will not however be able to sell its range of sex toys in the Middle East, where such goods are illegal. It will restrict the first sales to exotic lingerie, leather goods and PVC bodywear. It hopes to introduce chocolate bodypaints and massage oils later. Other stores are due to open in Dubai, Bahrain, Egypt, Qatar, Abu Dhabi and, possibly, Oman. Twelve are due to open from October, the rest in the New Year.
Noshaba Hussein, a leading member of the Iranian-backed Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, said she would lobby the Foreign Office and the Saudi Arabian ambassador to prevent the opening of the shops. "Who is supposed to buy these products? When Muslims go to the holy city they should only be indulging in prayer," she said.
Only Muslims are allowed to enter Mecca, the holiest city in Islam, where public observance of any other religion is forbidden. Every year, tens of thousands of pilgrims make their way to Mecca and Medina for the Hajj pilgrimage. Mohamed Ayed Alenezi, the chairman of Makae, defended the expansion. "Nice and sexy lingerie is not against Islam," he said.
Some Muslim clerics believe that Islamic married couples are allowed to share an interest in erotic underwear. Ayub Laher, the general secretary of the Bradford Council of Mosques, said that the shops would provide an outlet to explore fantasies: "Islam encourages a man and wife to please each other within the confines of their own homes. Underwear is allowed, massage oils can be part of innocent fun and as long as leather is not made out of pigskin, that is fine too."
The shops will be staffed by men. Senior staff, including Jacqueline Gold, the chief executive of Ann Summers, will be replaced by male executives for the stores' openings.

beej "Prisoner24601, I think abortion should not be allowed. "

think? 20 million aborted female fetuses in india in the last decade and you are still thinking, Beej?

I think its time to quit thinking and start acting, Beej.

and like I said earlier, charity begins at home. So beej, the first thing to do would be to check your backyard and your closets for any skeletons - skeletons of aborted female fetuses, that is.

once you are done doing that, report back to chowk and I will tell you the next steps, Beej.

Re: # 3

What contributes to this system of control is the distortion of the values of female agency (look the term up in a college dictionary). This post demonstrates it-rather than acknowledging female self will, self determination, choices, etc., female agency is grossly distorted as running around naked.

Btw, this interactor is presents himself as a 20 year old and so that should say something about the timeless quality of male anxiety and machismo.

Dear Hamza,

You are mistaken.

There is a right way to fry Donuts! Otherwise it will taste like the poops.

Similarly, there is a right way to do things - including how one treats one's own family members - boy OR girl!

When immigrants move in, it is expected of them that they will learn some of the right ways and leave some of the wrong ways "back home"!

That is not too much to ask.

Repeat after me - "the Saudi Arabian way to treat women is the WRONG way! That is not the Canadian way."

Paki culture = cab driving and terrorism

so paki culture is already here in america..

baba jee
first of all 'we' dont deport anyone, what 'we' do is fry donuts n change stained bedsheets at sleep inn...anyone who breaks a law of the land punishable by deportation does n should get deported...'we' should be making sure that there is a fresh batch of glazed so I dont have to wait n make small talk.

Prisoner24601, I think abortion should not be allowed.

Now, can we deport those people who live in USA/Canada but like to live by the primitive ways of the Saudis?

What say you, my dear?!

Beej "You know the old saying - when in Rome, live like the Romans!"


and YOU know that old saying - charity begins at home!

so why not begin to grant female fetuses the right to live, before you start worrying about the grown-up women of other cultures, beej? :)

Prisoner24601,

My dear, if you love to live like the Saudi Arabs why not live WITH the Saudi Arabians?

What is the point in trying to emulate the "real thing" from a distance? What's the matter - you do not LIKE the company of the Saudi Arabians? Too good for those folks, are you?!

How does it make any sense?

You know the old saying - when in Rome, live like the Romans!

It does not say - when in Canada, live like the Arabs, does it?! :)

Atif, and this is why you don't live in Saudi Arabia, is it?

Beej "Hey, if you wish to live like you were surrounded by Saudi Arabian culture "

i am not sure what "saudi arabian" culture has to do with Islam. But I do know that despite all its ills, you would never find sacks full of female fetuses floating down the sewer in saudi arabia, neither is bride burning a national sport.

perhaps you hindoos need a little bit of "saudi arabian" culture, beej?

The following rule of thumb appears to be simplicity itself.

Hey, if you wish to live like you were surrounded by Saudi Arabian culture - why not live IN Saudi Arabia?

Shore.....i agree w/ ur assertion that this guy was nutts...i do have an issue when u claiming that when parents raise there kids with certain religious belief than thats 'forcing' them...when ur parents raised ur sisters with the value that its not cool to show their nipples or thighs in public...than does that mean that they were forcing them? who decides that showing thighs n nipples r a big biggg no no.....everyone has a right to raise there kids with values n morals according to thier belief system...no one has the right to force anything on an adult from an Islamic perspective...from a western perspective however when u live under my roof than u live according to my rules if u dont like em u move out

These are questions that must be asked and answered by ALL members of our communities-particularly young girls, young adult women, women and males who refuse to participate in androcentricity.

Haider,

You make some great points. Aqsa's murder had to do with the loss of power her father felt over her.
The only way he knew to regain that power was to choke her to death.

It was a hate crime and an honor killing. Hate crime because her father hated the independence she exhibited. How dare she be independent and think for herself?
Honor killing because he perceived his honor was on the line.

Thus he committed the most dishonorable of all acts. The murder of one's own progeny. Truly despicable!

The statement by the Canadian Imams is quite funny, and revealing.
Training your daughters to wear hijab earlier laughs in the face of free will regarding religion. Training your daughters is another synonym for forcing your daughters.

Yes, Make them wear the hijab at an age where they cant protest until it becomes a habit for them.

I think Hijab when forced, has less to do with purity but more to do with appearances. Oh, the people will say He is such a good Muslim father for instilling the value of Hijab in his daughter. He will fit in better with his peers at the mosque, and will be respected.