Abdul Latif Khalid (1944-2007)

My commiserations on your loss.

Regards.

My utmost condolence at these 2 massive losses for you your father & BB the charismatic liberal pakistani leader.May they both rest in peace .I lost my father 20 years back when I was only 21.I can well n truly appreciate the true meaning of fathers loss.

My sincerest condolences.

Faruk

Re:bjkumar#108

Beej, that was a really nice gesture. It takes a lot for anyone to apologize for their actions/words. Bravo for stepping up to it!!

Yasser, Innah Lillah-e-wa in illahe Ra'ajeon.

Please accept my condolence on this great loss of yours. May Allah grant Latif Sab's soul rest in heaven.

I have explained my thinking behind posting #37 on this board and at other places (e.g., www.chowk.com/unplugged/t/48015 ) on this site. I had no malicious intent in putting up that post #37.

However, I also can not, in good conscience, delink myself from the anguish that it (in retrospect) obviously caused Yasser and perhaps other members of his family.

Accordingly, before this board moves out of view and disappears forever, I would like to tender a sincere apology to Yasser and his family members for any anguish caused by my earlier post.

I do so here and now for the simple reason that it is - under the circumstances - the right thing to do.

This article here is a sincerely written, sensitive account and I hope it will help Yasser and his family members with the healing process.

Yasser,
Sorry to hear about your loss. My deepest condolences to you and your family.
Looks like your father led a full, zestful life, with passion and few regrets - and you display the same passion!

YLH: My deepest condolences on the passing away of your father.

Moorakh Ali_1,

Did it EVER occur to you that my posting did a lot more to get Yasser out of his funk (by making him mad) than any of you fellows could ever achieve with your lip-service?!!

Yasser, my sincere condolences. May God give you the strength to bear this and may you transform into a better person because of this great loss.

Ignore the Hinboos who have sullied this thread with their filth.

Dear Yasser Bhai,

So sorry to hear of your loss, may your Father rest in peace, ameen. Inalilahi vainailahi rajiun... my condolences to you and all of your family and those who cherished your dad...

Khuda Hafiz
A

Since my father died till today, when ever I think of him I mumble a Ghalib's couplet

Thee voh ik shakhs ke tassavur se,
Ab vo ranai-e-khyaal kahan

There is nothing wrong with Masadi or BJ's responses how so ever cruel some people may find them.

Once you bring something into public arena then you should be ready for public response.

Kaun kahta hai ke bujurg bada kaam kar gaye
BA ki, naukar huay, pension lee aur mar gaye

My dear Yasser:

So sorry to hear of your great loss. Please convey my condolences to Ammi ji and Aisha.
You have written a wonderful eulogy that any father would be proud of.
May your father's soul rest in peace.

MY FORGOTTEN DAD, CHARLIE CHAPLIN
HE HATED watching his old movies, didn't like Christmas and could be a terrifying father. His son reveals why he fears the comedy legend is in danger of being forgotten on the anniversary of his death 30 years ago.
Charlie Chaplin hated Christmas. The British-born Hollywood legend would scowl as his family celebrated the season of goodwill.

“It really depressed him,” reveals Michael Chaplin, the great comedian’s son. “My mother would always put a big tree in the house and we’d surround it with beautifully wrapped gifts, while my father would grow morose and complain about the commercialisation of Christmas.

“It reminded him of his hard childhood when he’d had no presents and no tree. He’d complain: ‘If I got an orange at Christmas as a child, I was lucky.’ It’s ironic that he died on Christmas Day. That gave him even more reason to hate the holiday.”

This Christmas marks the 30th anniversary of Charlie Chaplin’s death, yet the triple Oscar winner known worldwide as the Little Tramp, famed for his bowler hat and cane, tight frock coat and waddling walk, whose classic films include City Lights, Modern Times and The Great Dictator, is poised for a revival.
A Chaplin Museum is set to begin construction at the Swiss mansion where the comedian spent the last 25 years of his life, and many of his old films are being restored, while his family hopes to introduce him to a new generation.

The former British music hall performer became Hollywood’s wealthiest superstar, recognised and beloved worldwide as an actor, writer, director and composer, eventually owning his own studio.

But according to Michael Chaplin, the world’s most famous funny man of his day was “just Dad” – an emotionally removed, stern disciplinarian who could never find happiness, and only won his son’s love after his death.

“He was a very difficult father, very strict and with quite a temper,” says Michael, aged 61, the son of Chaplin’s fourth and final wife, Oona. “The old guy terrified the life out of me sometimes. His own childhood had been one of poverty and living on the streets, having to go on stage to earn money to eat.”

Michael recalls: “But I grew up on a 37-acre estate in Switzerland with a butler, chauffeur, chef, under-cook, three maids, two nannies, a secretary and three gardeners. The house was often filled with famous guests, including James Mason, Yul Brynner, Noel Coward, Truman Capote, Graham Greene and Somerset Maugham. We holidayed on safari in Kenya and travelled to Japan, Bali, Hong Kong, Singapore, India and the Middle East.

“Our father made us aware of how our wealth was obscene amid all the poverty in the world. He was always warning us that all our wealth could disappear overnight. He’d experienced the Depression and never let us forget it. He really believed in the importance of education for his children: he said it was our only defence against poverty. But I was terrible at school, so we had our wars.

“One day when I was 15 I skipped school to see a girl. My father found out and was uncontrollable. He made me walk home three miles in the rain.

“The moment I walked in, he leaped down the steps and, with a sudden movement, slapped my face hard with the back of his hand. He must have been waiting there for hours. He really socked me. It really hurt. He’d given me a few spankings as well when I was younger. He had a temper and could become obsessive about things, inflating problems until they loomed huge in his mind, tormenting him.”

For the great comedian was no bundle of laughs at home, often behaving in an emotionally and physically distant manner.

“He had trouble expressing his emotions to his sons and I think it embarrassed him,” says Michael. “He found it easier to relate to his daughters.

“A lot of the time we wouldn’t see him because he was away working. He wasn’t the kind of father who drove us to school or did our homework with us. He was a great artist and maybe it was a bit much to ask for him to be a great father as well.

“He took me out fishing once but by then he was 72 and I was 15. It was too late to pretend we were going to be best buddies.

“His advanced age also bothered me. He was much older than all my schoolfriends’ dads. At times I was embarrassed by how old he was.”

Yet Chaplin was a man of sensual pleasures. “He was a bon vivant who loved fine dining, foie gras, caviar and wine,” says Michael. “And he was no puritan in his sex life – until he married my mother.”

Chaplin certainly loved women. He wed four times, was a serial seducer of under-age girls and dallied with some of the great beauties of his day including movie stars Marion Davis, Louise Brooks and his third wife, Paulette Goddard.
“He didn’t have stable relationships before he met my mother,” says Michael tactfully.

Chaplin had two sons by his second marriage to actress Lita Grey and another eight children by fourth wife Oona O’Neill, who was 18 when she married the 54-year-old comedian.

“People said: ‘Oh she’s after the money,’ or ‘He’s perverting young girls,’” says Michael’s younger brother, Eugene Chaplin, 54. “But they stayed together for the rest of their lives. He’d found the love of his life.”

Michael’s own life has been one of rebellion against what he saw as his father’s great dictatorship. Aged 16, he ran away to live in Britain and at 17 he eloped to Spain to marry his girlfriend Patrice Johns. However, Charlie refused to give his permission for the under-age wedding.

“He wanted to know how I could afford to keep her,” says Michael. “I had no idea.”

In desperation the couple fled to Scotland where they tied the knot without needing Charlie’s approval. Within a year, Michael was hooked on marijuana, unemployed in London and drawing unemployment benefit. Charlie was apoplectic with rage. “It’s difficult living with the Chaplin name,” says Michael, who eventually became a farmer. “It’s hard to find your own place in the world when you have the name of someone so famous.

“Perhaps I was intimidated by my father’s success but I never wanted a career in showbusiness. I didn’t inherit his
artistic genius.”

But ironically, it was filming that brought Michael together with his distant father when Chaplin cast his son in a movie.

“The happiest point of my childhood was when I had the chance to work with my father on the movie The King Of New York at Shepperton Studios,” he says.

“I was only 10 years old but it was the first time I felt I had shared something with my father. He worked with me, rehearsed my lines and directed me. We were close for a short while.

“It was hard to go back to school after that. I was even offered a movie that was filming in China but my father said I had to go back to school: education was paramount. After that I didn’t have a career in films.”

Chaplin was chased from America by the Communist witch-hunts of the Fifties, settling in 1952 at the Manoir de Ban in Corsier-sur-Vevey, Switzerland, close to Lake Geneva.

“He felt lost when he was forced from America, leaving behind a Hollywood that he had helped to build,” says Michael.

Exiled from Hollywood, he kept few reminders around.

“There were no Chaplin relics around the place,” says Michael. “No mementos like the famous bowler hat, frock coat, baggy pants, boots or cane. He was not one to waste time reminiscing. He didn’t even like to watch his movies.”

But age undermined his genius. “His great creation was The Tramp but eventually he had to part ways with the character because he wasn’t physically able to continue and that must have been a great loss to him.

“He had a terrible fear of losing his audience and not being funny any more. That made it very hard for him to grow old.”

Chaplin was in fair health until the age of 85, when he was ravaged by a series of strokes. “In his final years he drifted into himself,” says Michael. “He was in a wheelchair and he was ready to go. He died in bed, in his sleep.”

Dead celebrities, such as Albert Einstein and John Lennon, can earn millions in licensing and merchandising but Chaplin’s star is currently struggling.

“It’s not a lucrative estate and that’s something we’re trying to change,” says Michael.

“There are still millions of fans and he’s part of cinema history but Charlie Chaplin is not part of modern pop culture in the way of Marilyn Monroe or Elvis.

“The Tramp is known from China to South America but we have to find a way to market him. That’s why we’re creating the Chaplin Museum and releasing his restored high-definition films on DVD.”

A father of seven, Michael now lives on a farm in the hills above Chaplin’s Swiss estate and admits: “Now I’m 61 years old I have a different perspective on my father. I didn’t try very hard to be a good son.

“He loved us, I now realise. He loved my mother and I know she loved him.

“But he could never quite be happy. He was always searching for something more than he had. Perhaps that’s why he was a great artist. He was a perfectionist, torn by doubts.”

Today, Michael recalls their impassioned clashes best. “Often I was in trouble with him and we wouldn’t speak. One Christmas I went home and we didn’t speak for days.

“Ultimately, my father loved his family. We had a difficult time together but I know now that we loved each other.

“All the resentment and regret I had has passed away. For many years I was angry with him but now I know: I do love him. He wasn’t always easy to live with but he was my father and that’s all that matters. I should have loved him more.”

Maybe it’s a cultural thing but, in the west its been said that quite a lot of sons resent their fathers for various reasons, maybe its because west is a free and open society and they are free to express their opinions about anything and everything. whereas ours is far more regimented and ruled by conventions and certain things are taboo subjects such as irreverence to parents.

Maybe Dr khalid sohail could shed some light on this subject.

Yasser

My sincere condolences on the death of your father which I have also noted in ijaz_gul’s thread on UP for the same.

I can see that your father lived a most fulfilling life, “a life well lived” indeed. He did a lot of good for which he will be remembered with love and respect not only by his family and friends but also by the greater community he served - remarkable and praise-worthy to say the least. I wish to extend my support to you for your immense loss and the following lines have attracted my attention.

“He would repeat the story again and again in front of me. Perhaps he suspected I would treat him badly once he grew old. We will never know because he never gave me a chance to show him what kind of a son I would prove to be.”

To do justice to the memory of your father, your “guide and mentor”, you need to decipher what a parent actually means when he repeatedly points out something to his adult son:

“My darling beta, I am so grateful to Allah that you have turned out to be such a good son that I am able to share with you a historical fact, a father-son relationship, which has affected me so profoundly. Oh noble Yasser, I would not replace, with all the riches in the world that an emperor could have, the love and respect that you have for me. You are my pride and my joy.”

YLH, your Baba knew the kind of son you have turned out to be. Reading between the lines of what you wrote about him, I do believe that you were responsible for a great deal of happiness in his life. May that truth give you strength and peace.

Hamidm2, Zeemax, Neembu and a few others.

Thanks.

Manto mian,

I am sure your eulogy brought sad remembrances to all those on chowk who have undergone the traumatic loss of a parent. And for all those of us who still have both parents with us it is a timely reminder to give them the time, love and honour which they deserve but sadly often don't get.

Regards

PS: Could add a few things about the behaviour of a few chowkies on this post but best not to foul up a memorial post.

masadi dude, no one os saying you stop arguing or even using abusive language towards yasser...but do it on other boards and times...everything has its time and place. give it a rest.
--------

yasser, 63 is indeed a young age, though parents are never old. I don't know about others but as I am getting odler, I like my parents more and more...age gives you the experience to appreciate the hardships that your parents might have gone through for you. their old age is the time to repay them for their troubles in the form of comfort and respect. I am sure you would have been a wonderful son to be on his side in the years to come...it also sntached you of many many wonderful experiences and memories that were yet to happen.

our minds are designed to forget the truth of death..if we don't, it would be hard to live with constant fear. but death of a close person reminds us of this fact of life and forces us to re-evaluate our priorities in life...everytime I go to a funeral I come back much more wiser and humble.

It is unfortunate loss you had..but you will regain some of it back in the form of deeper relationship with your remaining family members. nothing is lost, it transforms and stays in our lives.

Dear Yassir,

Please accept my condolences on your great loss. May God gove you and your family the courage and patience to go through this dfficult time. May God also bless the soul of dear departed.

Madani sahib your post is better addressed to Manto, he has no respect for people offering sincere condolenses, that reflect how immature he is. Once the loss dawns on him, he will grow in maturity. My father died when he was 50 and in 2001 I lost my elder brother and nephew in a car crash, he was 32 at the time and the nephew was 3. I know what this loss is, he is just beginning to grasp it...

In #90 read "he lumped by sincere condolences" as "he lumped my sincere condolences

Hamid writes ".... masadi is a sorry excuse for a human being and his callous response reflects his wretched soul ...."

You personal attacks on every contrived occassion are a violation of Chowk guidelines and I am redflagging your post.

Anyone with even half an ounce of morality can see that the blame here lies not on myself but on Manto. Without even a thought he lumped by sincere condolences, [in which 1) I specifically state that I am putting away my differences for the purpose and 2) I agree with his fathers ideas on BB and ZAB], with the callous post by BJ, and alleged that I possessed no "humanity". This was an outrage that I had to address. That said, I will give it a rest.

By his reaction Manto has lost the little credibility he had left with chowk posters, with me, he never had any credibility. He is a disgrace to humainty in my opinion.

Yasser sahib

Thank you for sharing your very private feelings in this public forum. This takes a lot of courage and it reflects the strength of your passion.

As one who is unfortunate enough to have lost both parents I can appreciate your pain. Though it is NEVER the "right time" or the "right age" for losing a parent, the age of 63 is very early and very cruel. It particularly strikes a chord because my own father was 64 at the time of his passing. Like you the youngest, I was eleven. Thus, I consider you fortunate to have had the honor of knowing him as an adult.

I hope you have the strength to be a source of solace for your mother and other siblings. This, my friend, is a trial of pain that you alone must endure. I hope, for your sake, that it helps you to grow into a better person in the end. If you can do that you will have honored the life of your departed father.

...SR

PS: This may not be an appropriate thing to say at this early juncture while the wound is so fresh, but you must start thinking about your own cardiovascular health as early as NOW. Prevention is better than cure, and being a high risk individual for ischemic heart disease yourself(family history is THE MOST important risk factor), you should seriously consider, if you have not already, making those life-style adjustments as are relevent in your case.

May you be there for your children until your 80s or 90s.

Re: # 71 Dear Masadibhai.... I like your thinking and zestful opposition of peon mentality.
But like to register protest of your quite high degree of inhuman attitude and behaviour. I have suggested you many time to moderate yourself and many times it is better to refrain from saying anything. As words are like fired arrows you can not call back, they hurt and wound marks are left for all time.I will suggest you to ask for oppology and forgiveness for yourself.
Yes death is inevitable and you can not run away , once born we all travel to our death sooner or later. I will your theory also understand. Once I had loss of friend felt bad while returning home , It came to mind who I am to mourn loss and departure as i am also racing towards it also. That is all in macrosense right and gives courage to face things which we can not correct but endure.

Departure is end of era so decency requires to be solemn.It is not time for demegogy but to reflect on life and go ahead with courage.
(In personal life departure of your married daughters most painful, as once they depart its all gone,really something dies of yourself. One understands from the day they are born we are preparing for their departure but its hard to take that when they finally depart for good to start their families.Some time I think of my home use to be full of chatter and joy now it is silent)

This is request to YLH to forgive all for they do not know what they are saying and for infantile disorder.

{"In addition to being a first rate flyer, he was known for his singing talent during his days at the Lahore Flying Club. This talent extended both in and out of the club house, so much so that it got him into trouble during his first solo when he, out of sheer excitement of winning his wings, started singing a Rafi number into his mike with a frequency on which the control tower could hear him. When he returned to base, he was severely reprimanded for it by his instructor."}

Dear Yasser Bhai,
Thank you for sharing the heart warming anecdotes about your wonderful and life-loving dad. I have already expressed my sorrow, but now I wish to join you in celebrating this gentle man's love of life and those around him. I was especially touched by this unique episode about singing the Rafi song after winning his wings. This shows that your dad was no introvert and certainly enjoyed sharing his victories.

I am sure that was very proud of his young shehzada, who was no Aurangzeb (and you know how I really feel about the great Maharaja), at least as far as paternal affection was concerned.

May Allah grant him permanence in paradise and may you continue to brighten his good name. We all get to feel what you are feeling and may we all be as sincere, as graceful, and as exemplary as you, my good friend.

Salim

Re:hamidm
"... however, i don't think bj meant any harm - it is just the irish in him :) ..."

Its more the bihari in him......the irish bihari, given his fondness for the bottle....

A couple of years ago, I lost my mom and had to do her last rites. I can understand how Manto feels. Thats why I wanted to slap BJ for his stupid remarks....

yasser mian,

.... masadi is a sorry excuse for a human being and his callous response reflects his wretched soul ...... however, i don't think bj meant any harm - it is just the irish in him :) .... as irreverant as i am most of the time, when it comes to death and family i am okay with being a traditionalist ..........

..... anyway, from here on out, not a day will pass when you won't think of your father - that's the way it is ..... hopefully, his memory will be a source of strength even though there might be some regret over missed opportunities .....

Sorry, that was for Manto not Neembu.

Manto, I would have rather had read this nice piece as something personal of yours on I-Log. I can feel your loss and I hope you gain strength from your father's experiences and life in general.

sincerely,
CH

Neembu, what is the purpose of this article/eulogy? Is it to invite condolences from the readers towards Manto's father's passing? If so, then fine..compare that directive on interaction with every other article written on FP and tell me whether such directives are expcted/issued towards the interactions.

Manto and family deserve all the compassion and condolences for their loss. It is better suited for I_log. If masadi or BJ wrote what they wrote on an i-log interact, I would be upset. But this is FP.

I am trying to understand what propelledd the editorts to post a eulogy about an everyday pakistani's demise, which is littered with political, religious, and nationalistic issues on FP? If this invites comments on the motive of the writer or the editors, or on the life of the departed on FP, why are you suprised? this is FP.

Chaltahai,

This is indeed a public board. I agree with you. That just means that people can show us their real faces without fear.

I for one will never forget the kind words said by people like Alephnull, Sadna, Atif2 and Harish_hyd - all of whom I completely disagree with otherwise- on the link posted by Ijaz_Gul.

We owe each other common courtesy.

Re: # 80

chalta, baiting and grandstanding an obit is not discourse-nor do i think a eulogy an appropriate space for forum heckling-it would be the equivalent of starting an argument with a fam member at their funeral of their deceased relative.

Neembu, this is a public board. Manto put up the eulogy not as an i-log but in the forum of the FP, therefore comments within the guidelines of chowk are entirely appropriate.

this is in no way a vindication of Masadi's daily chutiyapa.

neembu writes "But right now, respect his right to mourn his father with dignity and peace"

I offered my condolences, he responds with an attack. Chowk is a public forum nobody can monopolize it for their personal agenda and nobody should be able to call for banning someone else's posts. Regarding Chowkid calling for me to die, that post should be removed and is being redflagged

Chowk Editors,

Perhaps now would be a good time to start deleting posts that may be injurious to Yasser and his fam and to also make it clear to interactors that this particular board and time is not appropriate for baiting Manto. I also request that interactors focus their attention and energies on every board except this one if you dont have anything supportive to write to Manto and his fam.

-Neembu

#75 Posted by masadi on December 25, 2007 8:20:08 am


our socities practice a perverse form of "worship of the dead"


No they don't..why don't you die and then paki society can prove they don't worship the dead..

Re: # 75

Masadi,

There will be the rest of Manto's life to discuss these issues with you, should he choose.

But right now, respect his right to mourn his father with dignity and peace.

Neembu writes "Masadi,

Let Yassir have his period of mourning. Enough. "

And who the F gave you the authority to tell me to stop posting? The person does not have the decency to accept someone's sincere condolences and responds with insults and you want to justify all of that just because our socities practice a perverse form of "worship of the dead", while not caring at all about the living. Think about this BS and the customs you've come to adopt...

Masadi,

Let Yassir have his period of mourning. Enough.

I would like to remind you and the others here about the emotions of the hundreds of thousands whose fathers were taken away from them because of the shenanigans of the MAJ. It hurts when its close to home but you become numb to the pain of others

Manto writes "My father hated people who told half truths. Your post 68 shows that you are a dishonest person. He would have hated you. "

First, there is nothing dishonest in my post, second, I don't give a damn about what your father would have thought about me or not. He was not some prophet from on high. Third, this thread is not for argumentation I would suppose so throwing in your already discredited point about ZAB being the founder of the Church of MAJ is BS. Not accepting someone's sincere condolences and his statement that he is putting his differences aside for the purpose, shows that you lack the basic qualities that make someone human. Now go to hell

Masadi mian,

My father hated people who told half truths. Your post 68 shows that you are a dishonest person. He would have hated you.

You are desperately trying to bring up Jinnah and Bhutto, who were mentioned here only because my father respected them greatly. But if you must ask, if Bhutto was on his political wall, Jinnah was three notches higher.

Perhaps you should take up the Jinnah-Bhutto issue with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto himself if you have good clairvoyant at hands... Today is 25th December... 31 years ago on this date Mr. Bhutto himself founded the Quaid-e-Azam Academy (or the Church Of MAJ as you call it) dedicated to the propagation of Jinnah as Pakistan's greatest hero. That makes Mr. Bhutto not just the high priest but the founder of the Church of MAJ.

In #69 it should read "Manto" and not "Manot".

Now, Manot I will accept your apology, before I even start considering you a human being...

#34 Posted by masadi on December 24, 2007 3:53:54 pm
Let me first put aside our major differences (and my detestation of MAJ and your shallow intellect regarding ZAB) and offer my condolences on the loss of your father. For those of us who have suffered similar loss, our empathy is real. I lost my father when I was 20.
------------------------------------------------------------



Manto calls this "lack of humanity", some people are so low (like Manto)that they will not even refrain from using their father's death to attack those they differ with....

Yasser,

First and foremost: I am sorry for your loss. People say move on, and get on with your life. I hope that such a sad thing never happens. I hope you remember him for ever. I hope that every triumph in your life rekindles in you, your dad's memory and gratitude for what he did for you. That will be the best tribute to him. I hope you care for, and respect your mom, and make her life a bit more bearable after such a shattering loss.

People might not know your dad, but everyone knows something about loving a parent, a sibling, a child. Everyone can relate to that loss. We have all either faced it, or once in a while think about such an awful prospect. That's why we sympathize and empathize with what might be going through. This is not a sign of stupidity or weakness, but of humanity.

Manto writes "masadi,

Both your responses and lack of humanity stands on its own."

What lack of humanity in my post? If you lack the decency to accept someone's condolences, then go to hell. Don't try to use your father's demise to pass through your bakwas ideology regarding MAJ, the sob.

Re: # 64

Yassir,

I thought for a few days what I was going to write about. Quite honestly, (and my intentions are not to cause you pain or anger), after reading BJ's post, I thought about losing my father and remembered what it was like. It was like sleepwalking.

Losing a parent is incredibly profound. I have discovered lonliness and (paradoxically) myself. It is both blessing and curse.


Email/Im me for support. In the meantime, you are gifted with your riches of your talents, your fam, your nation.

Neembu,

Thanks for those kind words. That was a beautiful little piece.

I can't agree with your assessment of bjkumar however because of the reasons given earlier nor do I wish to make him the topic of discussion here.

PS: As far as I know Akbar did not torture/kill any guru but I will be happy to be corrected.

Einsteinwallah,

What does "Islamic type" mean exactly. If it means he loved his faith and his community ... yes he was an Islamic type.

But if it means some sort of derogatory bakwas, then I can assure you my Pakistani father was more secular, modern and open minded than any Indian on this planet.

VRV,

Thanks bro.

Yasser,

I hope u've recovered from the great tragedy. We all go thru this in our lives. U wrote it well abt the questions we face beyond the loss of our loved ones.

Hope u'd be beack after a few weeks. Rgds,

VRV

Why Islamic types obsess with fictional stories like Mughal-e-Azam I will never understand. And Salim? Is he not the same person who later tortured some Sikh Guru? So Salim could not be sensitive type shown in Mughal-e-Azam.

Re: # 37

Yassir, BJ,

I read and understood this post to be as much a condolence as the more traditional/conservative condolences. Its something you might hear at an Irish wake-the rememberings of the person's life in all its' joy, contradictions, struggle.

If you have time, listen to Katell Keineg's album Jet, particularly the song "One Hell of a Life" where she writes:

"And when we're all dead
please don't philosophize
or feel regret. Just remember me when I said
I've had One Hell of a Life!"



Yassir, when my father died, I had to give a eulogy at an event honoring him. I don't know how I did it, but it sketched out the outlines of his life. His death brought me and my family a wilderness of grief, and somehow the gift of pulling together. I am still learning about him, the resonances and complexities of his life, more than 12 years later.

This piece is a heartfelt beginning. May you grow to learn more and more about your father.

Yasser,

While one has never met you or your dad, however, one can clearly understand the deep sense of loss. In spite of how BJK would see it, your fellow chowkies can share your grief. We have interacted with you, WE KNOW YOU MAN !!!! And BJK can go fly a kite.

May Latif Sahib rest in peace.

Yasir Meray Bhai,
If being a kid is about learning how to live, then being a grown-up is about learning how to die. It's a moving experiance but I am sure , Abdul Sahab will be a satisfied man up there in heavens.

yasser, i am sorry to know about the demise of your dad. I pray to god for his soul to rest in peace.

while i may not agree with what bj said, i would like to agree on one thing though.....celebrate the life of your dad. from your writings, he lived a good clean and most importantly an honorable life...and i think that is a good cause for the celebration of his life. i'll make sure take a drink in his name tonite.

rgds,

devkant.

Yaser mian , aaap humko naheen jantey, hum bhi naheen jantey, haan aaap ko kai baar deykhaa hey.

... lufz baymaini hootey heen, haan shayed thoori see merhaam rekh deytey heen..
guzrey huway kabhi wapus naheen aatey, haan unki yadeen humeen unsay jura rekhtee heen..

zidagi mout, fana or baqa ka kheel hey, sir ka sayaa uthtaa hey or chilchilaatee dhoop phir kitnee garam hoo jaatee hey is ka andaza sirf uskoo hoota hey, joo is dhoob meen ablaa paa hoota hey...

allah aap ko himat dey.

Zeemax,

What a wonderful analogy.

To answer your question: It is a mixture of sadness, helplessness and intense love. All in all a Life-altering experience.

But I'll tell you... the questions that plague us: afterlife, death, spirit, soul etc become meaningless at that time. It is you and your sense of loss.

Manto,

I found your lines about shoveling earth over your father extremely moving. How does one feels doing that with someone whom you have admired all life and looked up to as a pillar in the foundation of one's entire personality. Yet, one has to have that shattering experience. That's the time when one 'really' grows up ... when the third wheel on his baby bike to keep you from tipping over is removed.

If it was just temporarily animated meat, as the 'free thinkers' would have us believe, then all these condolences would be meaningless. If he wasn't though, then it's a different story.

But that's not the appropriate forum to bring this up. People have different ways of looking at life & death, but none should be considered malicious. They all mean well in the end.

ijaz_gul,

Since my father was a pilot once upon a time, I was familiar with the airborne tradition of the air force and other flying units. I kept thinking of that throughout the past two weeks.

You and Aunty are lucky to have Danielle and she is lucky to have you. Same goes for your other kids. I was strengthened by what you said the other day on the phone : that you've remembered your mother every single day since your lost her. I wish to do the same for my father.

As for these two people here ... I just find it sad that some people are so intolerant of other points of view that they waste no opportunity to bring it up.

ijaz_gul,

Since my father was a pilot once upon a time, I was familiar with the airborne tradition of the air force and other flying units. I kept thinking of that throughout the past two weeks.

You and Aunty are lucky to have Danielle and she is lucky to have you. Same goes for your other kids. I was strengthened by what you said the other day on the phone : that you've remembered your mother every single day since your lost her. I wish to do the same for my father.

As for these two people here ... I just find it sad that some people are so intolerant of other points of view that they waste no opportunity to bring it up.

Yasser, there is no other way to say it.

You are a victim of your own suspicions and see things which do not exist. It is simple as that.

I do not feel mad at you because of your present condition. (Ranjit is evil for egging you on!)

And I stand by my assertion that a whole bunch of strangers - who never knew your dad from the man Adam -showing up and saying "how sorry I am" is meaningless and in my view - an act of fakery!

That's all.

Bjkumar,

Every bit of your post was malicious... your "Theek hai..." crap was a pithy way of getting to the point your desperately want to drive home about pakistan india and other such nonsense.

Same goes for your brother from another mother: masadi. His first few lines of condolences was the most insincere piece of crap I have read. He wanted to score points about the one thing he has been unable to accept.

So spare me the crap about not being malicious. People like you and Masadi are nothing if not malicious and disgusting...

All I can say is that my father was the kind of person who would have never agreed with small and petty people with lack of humanity of the kind you've displayed here. (If really wanted to make this controversial I would have quoted my father's views on Gandhi.) If you thought hamidm was bad... ah well.

I am done debating things with people like you.

The real well wishers of YLH will offer him advice and strength as a colleague rather than make do with standard cliches'! I did the same with my Iqbal's couplet.

My own two parents have been intermittently in ICUs from time to time during the entire 2007 and barely climbed off from their death-beds each time only to return there one after the other a week apart. I know it HAS to come. And, when it does, I will look for serenity rather than compassion. They would have played their innings damn well and I would give them a standing ovation upon their return to the pavilion rather than grieve over why there couldn't be an encore.

There cannot be. That's why they equipped me with the shin guards and gloves to go out there and take my turn at the crease.

Yasser, come off it!

You know darn well there was not a shred of malice in what I wrote.

From what I have seen, it is perfectly okay to try to create humor at the time of a memorial service and there is nothing “inhuman” about it!

But I fully understand that you are not in that frame of mind.

* * *

Ranjit miaN, since you have appointed yourself a judge of my intentions, let me do the same for you. I think that you and a few others like you are absolute hypocrites who do not have an ounce of sincerity in your bodies.

Yasser,

As I commented on facebook, life moves on.

You never stop to mourn a fallen colleague in a battle field. You move on, cause in doing so, you fulfil the purpose for which the colleague fell. They say that in the Air Force that when a jet crashes, everyone gets airborne. So get airborne.

Life is a battlefield. There are no straight lines. Only steep curves.

From experience I tell you that time is the best balm for healing. When the going gets tough, the tuff gets going.

I was barely five when my Baba died. I just have some vague images. My mother proved to be more of a man. I recall her happiness when we were expecting our first child. She began stitching baby clothes. Then just four months before Danielle was born she passed away. I thought that was the end of life.

My boss cut short my leave because of pressing requirements. My wife stayed back in Lahore while I moved to Quetta. I cursed him. He overloaded me with work. But in the final analysis, his attitude helped me get out of the trauma and live in living memory. So take the inhuman words of masadi and not so inhuman BJ, who I feel meant well as a blessing back to the world of the living.

Danielle was born in Lahore while I was in Quetta. As time moves, I find so many things in Danielle that relate to my mother; her enterprise, dedication, zeal and dexterity to name a few.

This is what living memory is about.

'Cheerios, in my jargon means to move on.

I read both the accused's interacts with interest. Masadi did condole with sincerity but also admired the late father's judgment over YLH as regards ZAB.

BJK's post was more fatalistic I think but didn't appear callous to me. I think he criticised the ritualistic social occasion of condolence offering where everyone who never bothered about the deceased during his/her lifetime but shows up upon the 'soyem' and men talk politics while women talk about 'rishtas' for their children before rice and curry is served, and then everyone disappears till the next such occasion.

I think the judgment on the two offenders may be a bit hasty and harsh before examining their posts closely. They meant well in the spirit of their posts.

Re: # 37

Yaar BJ,

Can you see the contradiction in your post? condemning YLH for posting his eulogy and then sharing your thoughts about his father? Comeon BJ what was the real reason for this knee jerk reaction? This does not gel with the BJ we know.

Thanks Ranjit.

YLH, please ignore idiots like BJ and masadi. They cannot even respect someone's loss of a parent. Please take care.

Also my father loved Pakistan and instilled that in me. He was very proud of his community's great contribution to the Pakistan Movement and I have tried to reflect that in my articles and will continue to cause heart burn to inhuman bigots like BJKumar and Masadi.

Most Pakistanis watch Indian cinema.. it is probably their favorite past time. It doesn't mean that they want to be one country. It just shows that most Pakistanis (and I am sure Indians) are mature enough to separate politics from entertainment and art... something that people like BJKumar are too small and petty to realize.

Re:bjkumar#37

BJ,

Your post was one of the most insensitive and disgusting posts that I have ever seen on chowk. Generally people attack each other based on religion or even personal matters. But I have never seen anyone make fun of someone's loss of a parent. The poor guy has just buried his dad. Cant you at least respect that you idiot?

Kaal is absolutely right about you getting drunk before logging into chowk every now and then. An uncivilized bihari will always remain an uncivilized bihari, even after getting an education and coming the US. Shame on you!!

bjkumar, masadi,

Both your responses and lack of humanity stands on its own.

If there is God... may he help you overcome your mental conditions.

BJChamar wat time is the lock-down in ur mental-institution....must be on pacific time

Yasser, what the heck is this stuff?! What the heck is going on here?!!

Jesus Christ, I step away for one day – ONE lousy day, and when I return – here you are crying on every shoulder you can find – and this is no more the chowk site I know – it has become a regular matam-khaana!

All these folks – although well-meaning folks, they all coming in – some from woodworks, offering their two lines of ghissa-peeta words of condolence about a person they hardly knew, and then vacating the dais – their part over!

Is this a roll-call of some sort?! Jesus Christ!

I need to be careful leaving this place unattended! Before one knows it – in the twinkling of an eye – it can transform itself into a paagal-khana!

Theek hai, your dad was a great insaan!

Theek hai – he was a gem of a person!

Theek hai – he was a self-made individual who, from all accounts, was a highly inspiring gentle soul who raised himself by the bootstraps! (If I did not know he was Pakistani – I could have mistaken him for an Amrikkan!)

Theek hai – he was a great man, not that that ought to make a difference to you – since he was your dad – and that simple fact ought to be enough to feel the loss!

I understand all of that.

Yet, all those things – if one were to look at this tragedy the right way, would be reasons to celebrate! Not to mourn – but to celebrate!

Hey, as far as “jaana uss paar” is concerned – everybody would need to do that eventually. The guy did all the positive things, he lived a good life and he lived a clean life, he did not hurt people and – when the time came, he returned whence he had come – whence we all come – without suffering too much!

What else is there to be asked for?!

So what is there to be sorry for? For yourself?!

Do the following!

Just celebrate his life – and be thankful you were a part of it!

* * *
Also…

I agree that your dad had good taste in what filmy heroines ought to look like!

Madhubala, Nargis, Nimi, Hema Malini…

Theek hai, a bit older – but nothing to sneeze at in the looks department!

Yet, may I ask why ALL the filmy heroines that your dad liked were Indians?! What happened to the Pakistani actresses? Not good-looking enough?!! HaaaN?!!

That is the one problem with some of these folks born before independence – they never got used to the idea of thinking the two countries as separate from each other! He probably thought of India as his second home, too!

* * *

Not to forget…

Let me offer you an alternate scenario on one of the issues you brought up here – which nobody on this site – being the likely numbskulls that they all are – could ever guess in laakh janams!

Let me explain to you why your dad – may the good Lord provide rest to his soul – liked the Shahanshah Akbar so much in Mughal-e-Azam!

Some might think that was because that Akbar guy was a noble ruler – because he was a role model of fairness – somebody who put duty above personal gratification – somebody who was a remarkable person, not the least of whose virtues was a tolerance for those who were different from his own kind – a ruler who, above all – valued insaaniyat!

Some might think so.

To that I say: “Balderdash!”

That was not the REAL reason your dad liked the fillum and the Akbar!

The real reason was as follows.

Your dad watched that Mughal-e-azam movie with great interest, especially the part where the great Akbar whips the ass of his son in a one-on-one – then your dad most probably exclaimed happily:

“What a great man! I wish I had done that to that Yasser!”

Re: # 35 I felt sad reading loss of your father and your friend and mentor.
My deep condolences
Ahmed Madani

I am sorry for your loss. May your father be at peace, and may you and your family be at peace.

Let me first put aside our major differences (and my detestation of MAJ and your shallow intellect regarding ZAB) and offer my condolences on the loss of your father. For those of us who have suffered similar loss, our empathy is real. I lost my father when I was 20.

The High Priest of the Church of MAJ writes " In what were to be his last days, he was perturbed by what he viewed as Benazir Bhutto’s betrayal of her father’s ideals. Ironically this is precisely what has attracted me to the PPP, i.e. BB’s willingness to undo her father’s wrongs."

Your father was right on the mark while your comments on the BB reflect your enslavement to the colonizers in the tradition of the MAJ.

you are the remarkable son of a remarkable man, may God bless you and give you strength at this difficult time

Dear yasser... sorry to hear that.My deepest condolences. dear yasser...Sooner or later, all of us run up against the hard edge of reason.

May Allah bless his soul.

My deepest condolences.

I am sorry to hear about your loss.

May your Dad rest in peace.

what a wonderful , well written eulogy. It is a pleasure to read and know a man of such varied interests and passions and I admire the way you have remembered the way your father lived his life.

I am very sorry for your loss Yasser, and I hope in time it is the memory of his life rather than your loss that remains with with you.

"Kulzam-e-hasti mein ubhra hai tu manind-e-hubab,
Iss zian khaney mein tera imtihaan hai zindagi."

Wish the dear departed soul the best and carry on.

Zeemax

ylh: my condolences.

In the fourth line... also Harish Hyd.

Thank you Chowk for publishing this - it has helped me take baby steps.

The way you've all written and supported me in remembering my Baba is amazing and I truly am in your debt. I also want to thank Ijaz Gul for starting that UP thread so early on. I have hung on to every word... and while every single one of these words said for my father is sacred to me, I especially want to thank Alephnull, Sadna and Atif2... primarily because we do not see eye to eye and have always been at odds. I wish that a tragedy of this kind does not fall upon them for a very long time... but I also hope that if and when it does, I would be able to comfort these people the same way whatever our differences, fights and disagreements... In addition to this, I have received some very beautiful emails from some of you here and on facebook. Thank you so much for those.

Also to add a few things... HP has described his life after his father as a "long haul". Perhaps the scariest thing for me is this long haul without his guidance.

By far the most honorable thing I have done in my life is to participate in the final rites and burial of my father. I went down into his crypt, I lowered him down and I started throwing the mud. Some of you have gone through this process in some form or the other (burial, cremation etc) and the bitter truth is that the rest of you will one day ... but I can honestly say I had no idea. I am still numb from the fast pace of events that have totally overwhelmed me.

Also there are many other facets of my father's life that have gone unexplored. I would like to share one though which is relevant to our situation. A few months ago, the khakis made my father an offer: we will help you become the General Secretary of Pakistan Automobile Dealers Association if you promise to hold strike when we ask you.

My father's response was shove off. This was the measure of the man.

Anyway... thanks again every one of you for honoring my father and hence honoring me the way you have.

Dear Yasser,

My sincerest condolences. Your father was a great man. I'm sure you have/will make him proud.

Dear Yasser:

A very touching eulogy of a son to his father.

A Sanskrit proverb comes to my mind, that losely translates that "Father - Son is the only relationship without competition, jealousy, ... only blessings and love flows, ..."

I can feel the pain. I lost my father when I was only 22 years old.He was my main support in whatever I did back then. After him it was a long haul for me. I am glad that you had a father who was supportive and had the ability to understand right from wrong.

Instead of just mourning his demise, I would recommend you think about how he enjoyed his life and helped you and your siblings enjoy it too.

He lived a great life and that should be a source of strength for you.

Lucky indeed is the man about whom his children would say what you have said for your father. I did not know your father, but the impact of his loss on your life saddens me.
May God(SWT) Rest him in peace, and give you the strength to carry on his legacy.

Nihayat afsoos hoaa yasser...Allah swt aapko aapkay ghar wallon ko sabr-e-jameel ata farmayey

Yasser, please accept my condolences on your father's demise. May his soul rest in peace.

Dear Yasser,

My condolences on your loss. I lost my own father almost exactly two years ago so I quite understand what you're going through. It is not easy but one learns to carry on.

My condolences to you and your family. I am sure you will carry his good name forward.

ylh:

I am sorry to read the sad news of your father's death. May his soul rest in peace.

Ho chukeen' Ghalib balaa'n'ay sub tamam
Aik marg-e-nagahani aur haiy

Mohammad Gill

inna lillah e wa inna ilahee rajeoon!

I am so sorry ; i just read surat-e-fatiha!
*may Allah , send him to to the 7th Heaven*

Hope you are couping up Yassir!
*hug*
regards,
Ali.

My condolences on your Baba’s untimely death.

Yasser, your father led a life of which you can be rightly proud. And your father would be proud of you. Carry on his fine legacy.

ek/kaal/prem

inna lillah e wa inna ilahee rajeoon
"Verily we belong to Allah, and to Allah we return."

Yasser

Please accept my condolences for the sad demise of your loving father.

You’ve not wrote about where he was buried, I’ve been told that prominent ahmadis are buried in rabwah.

Dear Yasser,

I am sure your wonderful father was very proud of his brilliant, humane and accomplished son.

yasser,

...... sorry to hear about your loss ....... may his soul rest in peace ...... your father sounds like a great man and i am sure he was very proud of you

Sorry to hear yasser. May he rest in peace.

Dear Yasser, our condolences