Chowk December 27, 2007
#264 Posted by a_r_j_u_n1 on December 28, 2007 6:01:53 am
As you sow, so shall you reap...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3100052.ece
Main suspects are warlords and security forces
Jeremy Page, South Asia Correspondent
The main suspects in the assassination are the foreign and Pakistani Islamist militants who saw Ms Bhutto as a Westernised heretic and an American stooge, and had repeatedly threatened to kill her.
But fingers will also be pointed at the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, (ISI) which has had close ties to the Islamists since the 1970s and has been used by successive Pakistani leaders to suppress political opposition. Ms Bhutto narrowly escaped an assassination attempt in October, when a suicide bomber struck at a rally in Karachi to welcome her back from exile.
Earlier that month two Pakistani militant warlords based in the country’s northwestern areas had threatened to kill her.
One was Baitullah Mehsud, a top militant commander fighting the Pakistani Army in South Waziristan, who has ties to al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taleban. The other was Haji Omar, the leader of the Pakistani Taleban, who is also from South Waziristan and fought with the Afghan Mujahidin against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Ms Bhutto said after the attack that she had received a letter, signed by someone claiming to be a friend of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, threatening to slaughter her like a goat. But she also accused Pakistani authorities of not providing her with sufficient security, and hinted that they may have been complicit in the Karachi attack.
She indicated that she had more to fear from unidentified members of a power structure that she described as allies of the “forces of militancy”.
Analysts say that President Musharraf is unlikely to have ordered her assassination, but that elements of the Army and intelligence service stood to lose money and power if she became prime minister. The ISI includes some Islamists who became radicalised while running the American-funded campaign against the Soviets in Afghanistan and were opposed to her on principle. Saudi Arabia is also thought to have frowned on Ms Bhutto as being too secular and Westernised and to have favoured Nawaz Sharif, another former Prime Minister.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3100052.ece
Main suspects are warlords and security forces
Jeremy Page, South Asia Correspondent
The main suspects in the assassination are the foreign and Pakistani Islamist militants who saw Ms Bhutto as a Westernised heretic and an American stooge, and had repeatedly threatened to kill her.
But fingers will also be pointed at the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, (ISI) which has had close ties to the Islamists since the 1970s and has been used by successive Pakistani leaders to suppress political opposition. Ms Bhutto narrowly escaped an assassination attempt in October, when a suicide bomber struck at a rally in Karachi to welcome her back from exile.
Earlier that month two Pakistani militant warlords based in the country’s northwestern areas had threatened to kill her.
One was Baitullah Mehsud, a top militant commander fighting the Pakistani Army in South Waziristan, who has ties to al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taleban. The other was Haji Omar, the leader of the Pakistani Taleban, who is also from South Waziristan and fought with the Afghan Mujahidin against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Ms Bhutto said after the attack that she had received a letter, signed by someone claiming to be a friend of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, threatening to slaughter her like a goat. But she also accused Pakistani authorities of not providing her with sufficient security, and hinted that they may have been complicit in the Karachi attack.
She indicated that she had more to fear from unidentified members of a power structure that she described as allies of the “forces of militancy”.
Analysts say that President Musharraf is unlikely to have ordered her assassination, but that elements of the Army and intelligence service stood to lose money and power if she became prime minister. The ISI includes some Islamists who became radicalised while running the American-funded campaign against the Soviets in Afghanistan and were opposed to her on principle. Saudi Arabia is also thought to have frowned on Ms Bhutto as being too secular and Westernised and to have favoured Nawaz Sharif, another former Prime Minister.
#263 Posted by wileythecoyote on December 28, 2007 6:00:58 am
my heartfelt condolances, we in india have certain misgivings but im certain that raw didnot kill the woman.
the nation will have other leaders but my heart goes out to her children, who cant have another mother.
the nation will have other leaders but my heart goes out to her children, who cant have another mother.
#262 Posted by bubba on December 28, 2007 5:35:42 am
Re: # 220 Posted by zeemax on December 27, 2007 10:30:58 pm
[BTW Anil, I don't agree with you re Masadi Saheb. He does go overboard sometimes but his central thesis (US elite) is sound.]
Agreed totally. In democracy all voices must be listened and heard. Masadi and Hamid are both needed for us to be informed Pakitistanis. And thank you Zee for being a bold and courageous interactor yourself. Now, someone should help us to be a free thinking Pakistani. Anyone out there?
[BTW Anil, I don't agree with you re Masadi Saheb. He does go overboard sometimes but his central thesis (US elite) is sound.]
Agreed totally. In democracy all voices must be listened and heard. Masadi and Hamid are both needed for us to be informed Pakitistanis. And thank you Zee for being a bold and courageous interactor yourself. Now, someone should help us to be a free thinking Pakistani. Anyone out there?
#261 Posted by bubba on December 28, 2007 5:26:10 am
Re: # 217 Posted by MantoLives on December 27, 2007
Great post, Yasser.
[For the first time I feel completely hopeless ...] Please don't feel completely hopeless.
The international community will never allow Pakistan to be a failed state, albeit it may want to change its ruling elite to be more aligned with the aspirations of the people of Pakistan. All these 60 years, rule by these ruling elite in cooperation with the Mafioso gangsters of Karachi will come to an end.
Nawaz Sharif, if he wants to be successful must learn the language of humility and people friendliness. He just comes across too right-of-center, and he may not be to the liking of the west. Pakistan is expected to move a lot closer to the western alliance, and not towards KSA or even China. Being friendly with China will only be acceptable as far as the economic ties goes, and with KSA where the spiritual aspirations go. But, your daily routine of worldly politics will have to be moulded towards pragmatic worldly issues. Maybe some kind of introspection is highly desirable for the nation. Riding the horse of global politics is not for the bureaucratic mindset of the pakistani society. The people must think independently and freely, which they don't, and it appears hard for them to understand what is going on in the world.
Great post, Yasser.
[For the first time I feel completely hopeless ...] Please don't feel completely hopeless.
The international community will never allow Pakistan to be a failed state, albeit it may want to change its ruling elite to be more aligned with the aspirations of the people of Pakistan. All these 60 years, rule by these ruling elite in cooperation with the Mafioso gangsters of Karachi will come to an end.
Nawaz Sharif, if he wants to be successful must learn the language of humility and people friendliness. He just comes across too right-of-center, and he may not be to the liking of the west. Pakistan is expected to move a lot closer to the western alliance, and not towards KSA or even China. Being friendly with China will only be acceptable as far as the economic ties goes, and with KSA where the spiritual aspirations go. But, your daily routine of worldly politics will have to be moulded towards pragmatic worldly issues. Maybe some kind of introspection is highly desirable for the nation. Riding the horse of global politics is not for the bureaucratic mindset of the pakistani society. The people must think independently and freely, which they don't, and it appears hard for them to understand what is going on in the world.
#260 Posted by tahmed32 on December 28, 2007 5:25:07 am
#255 you say "this is a religious ideological conflict that could only be stopped if they elect sane leaders in the west".
in saying this, you imply that it isnt musharraf and the military that will not permit the Pakistan constitution to function. by your "logic", there should be no democracy in turkey or malaysia either. and if it is all about religion (as you claim) why does the west not have similar religious conflict with hinduism? or buddhism? why do muslims worship more freely and without fear in mosques in the US?
But dont let rational thinking come in the way. after all - as hamidm can explain - it is all hands on deck to protect musharraf and the "right" of the military generals to rule over Pakistan.
in saying this, you imply that it isnt musharraf and the military that will not permit the Pakistan constitution to function. by your "logic", there should be no democracy in turkey or malaysia either. and if it is all about religion (as you claim) why does the west not have similar religious conflict with hinduism? or buddhism? why do muslims worship more freely and without fear in mosques in the US?
But dont let rational thinking come in the way. after all - as hamidm can explain - it is all hands on deck to protect musharraf and the "right" of the military generals to rule over Pakistan.
#259 Posted by tahmed32 on December 28, 2007 5:07:38 am
The chaudhury brothers are in hiding from the crowds who tore down their election posters wherever they saw them!! so much for their pretensions to being political leaders. musharraf talked his usual self-serving talk (claiming that "he had said all along" that the mullah terrorists were the biggest enemies of Pakistan - and forgetting that in his 8 years of rule mullah terrorists have become stronger as he made deals with the likes of mullah fazloo to stay in power). the mqm altaf came on geo demonstrating his hypocrisy by crying loudly for the cameras, conveniently forgetting that it was his ghoondas who attacked PPP workers on May 12 when they came out for peaceful demonstrations against dictatorship.
#258 Posted by bubba on December 28, 2007 5:04:23 am
Re: # 193 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2007 7:11:11 pm
hamid mian: are you a hired spin master? is it just not obvious to you that this military junta did not provide the sort of protection accorded for a Prime Minister?
[.. even though their pay masters, ideological leaders and handlers might reside in islamabad, akora khattak, and mansoora ..] so?!? they should not be held responsible? what sort of an intellect are you using these days?
I always thought better of you.
hamid mian: are you a hired spin master? is it just not obvious to you that this military junta did not provide the sort of protection accorded for a Prime Minister?
[.. even though their pay masters, ideological leaders and handlers might reside in islamabad, akora khattak, and mansoora ..] so?!? they should not be held responsible? what sort of an intellect are you using these days?
I always thought better of you.
#257 Posted by bubba on December 28, 2007 4:52:43 am
Re: # 184 Posted by Urstruly on December 27, 2007 6:49:29 pm
[I think fouj ki iss waqt phatti hoi hay..] Gr8.
And what about all those defense housing societywallas? Are they hiding in fear? or in shame? or both? or none?
Paani aur power kon banaye gaa bhai? Yeh jurnail vernail to waapda key leaderaan hein? oun kaa kiya baney gaa? aur humara captain clueless ka kiya hoga bhai?
[The flights to Canada and Dubai are gonna be fully booked for the next couple of months.] aur hamid sahib ka chaeeta shaikh rashid sahib kahaan pur hai?
[I think fouj ki iss waqt phatti hoi hay..] Gr8.
And what about all those defense housing societywallas? Are they hiding in fear? or in shame? or both? or none?
Paani aur power kon banaye gaa bhai? Yeh jurnail vernail to waapda key leaderaan hein? oun kaa kiya baney gaa? aur humara captain clueless ka kiya hoga bhai?
[The flights to Canada and Dubai are gonna be fully booked for the next couple of months.] aur hamid sahib ka chaeeta shaikh rashid sahib kahaan pur hai?
#256 Posted by ijaz_gul on December 28, 2007 4:09:48 am
http://www.dailymail.com/News/NationandWorld/200712270149
#255 Posted by miraj101 on December 28, 2007 3:30:11 am
How the hell one can deal with this grand CFR/Zionist/Neocon/Christian Conservative conspiracy other then blowing up anyone who is trying to do their bid, its called Blowback, becasue to the controlling NEOCONS talking and listening to the so called terrorists is a BIG NO NO. This war is not the war on terror, this is a religious ideological conflict that could only be stopped if they elect sane leaders in the west, who understand that they don't hate them because of their liberty they hate them because they are screwing with them for decades....
#254 Posted by zeemax on December 28, 2007 2:36:15 am
#253 ... by neocons, of-course I mean the neocon ideology which is mainly Israeli and US pressure groups, government agencies etc., and not necessarily the current political administrations at any particular time who may not be in the loop.
Remember Kargill? The political government was not even in the loop. It is something like that.
Remember Kargill? The political government was not even in the loop. It is something like that.
#253 Posted by zeemax on December 28, 2007 2:28:09 am
#252 Posted by majumdar,
Majumdar Saheb,
I had posted the following on another board. If you contemplate upon each point, everything will fall in place:
The Neocon grand strategic objectives of US foreign policy for 21st Century:
1) Defence/protection of Israel. Any Muslim country with a potential or existing nuclear program will be destroyed.
2)Demolition of Political Islam. Democracy is good only if Political Islamists stay out.
3)Control of global fossil fuel assets.
4)Control of global waterways/sea-lanes. Gibralter, Bosphorous, Suez, Horn of Africa, Malacca Straits, and the Gulf - all fall under Muslim lands.
5) Encirclement of Russia
6) Encirclement of China.
Regards.
Majumdar Saheb,
I had posted the following on another board. If you contemplate upon each point, everything will fall in place:
The Neocon grand strategic objectives of US foreign policy for 21st Century:
1) Defence/protection of Israel. Any Muslim country with a potential or existing nuclear program will be destroyed.
2)Demolition of Political Islam. Democracy is good only if Political Islamists stay out.
3)Control of global fossil fuel assets.
4)Control of global waterways/sea-lanes. Gibralter, Bosphorous, Suez, Horn of Africa, Malacca Straits, and the Gulf - all fall under Muslim lands.
5) Encirclement of Russia
6) Encirclement of China.
Regards.
#252 Posted by majumdar on December 28, 2007 2:14:59 am
Zee sahib,
There is not an iota of doubt in my mind that elements in the Pak Army and intelligence agencies were involved. They deliberately weakened the security if not actually masterminded the assassination.
But which are the foreign powers u r referring to? How wud USA/UK/Israel be benefited if their blue-eyed girl was killed? India has neither the brains nor is its interest served in any way.
Regards
There is not an iota of doubt in my mind that elements in the Pak Army and intelligence agencies were involved. They deliberately weakened the security if not actually masterminded the assassination.
But which are the foreign powers u r referring to? How wud USA/UK/Israel be benefited if their blue-eyed girl was killed? India has neither the brains nor is its interest served in any way.
Regards
#250 Posted by zeemax on December 28, 2007 2:09:11 am
majumdar,
You can count out Baitullah Mehsud. The report of daily times that he had threatened her was proven as false and totally fabricated by the very source Daily Times had quoted, Senator Sirajuddin, who had attended a Jirga with Baitullah. Baitullah Mehsud had also personally denied he had anything to do with the 18 October attack on BB.
Mullah Faqir of the Bajaur Militia had indeed threatened her after her US statements which I myself saw on a BBC footage. But Faqir is not a big player on his own and now aligned with Baitullah. As you would know, the various splinter groups of Pakistani Taliban in seperate tribal agencies are now united under Baitullah Mehsud under a central Shura Councill since Swat operation a few weeks ago. So I count Mulla Faqir's threat or the Pakistani Taliban out.
It has to be through cooperation of major power intel agencies with their Pakistani counterparts.
You can count out Baitullah Mehsud. The report of daily times that he had threatened her was proven as false and totally fabricated by the very source Daily Times had quoted, Senator Sirajuddin, who had attended a Jirga with Baitullah. Baitullah Mehsud had also personally denied he had anything to do with the 18 October attack on BB.
Mullah Faqir of the Bajaur Militia had indeed threatened her after her US statements which I myself saw on a BBC footage. But Faqir is not a big player on his own and now aligned with Baitullah. As you would know, the various splinter groups of Pakistani Taliban in seperate tribal agencies are now united under Baitullah Mehsud under a central Shura Councill since Swat operation a few weeks ago. So I count Mulla Faqir's threat or the Pakistani Taliban out.
It has to be through cooperation of major power intel agencies with their Pakistani counterparts.
#249 Posted by majumdar on December 28, 2007 2:06:33 am
Zee sahib,
#246
"The Learned Elders of Zion"
OR
" The Hindu racist, casteist, fascist, misogynist, bigoted freak"
???
Regards
#246
"The Learned Elders of Zion"
OR
" The Hindu racist, casteist, fascist, misogynist, bigoted freak"
???
Regards
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