Chowk December 27, 2007
#161 Posted by slodhi on December 27, 2007 2:13:45 pm
Re: # 156
re. slodhi "I remember 2 days before 9/11 when they killed the Northern Alliance leader."
Lodhi sahib, sorry to be discursive, but could you please job my memory on that connection? I remember reading about it sometime ago.
Well before they attacked USA, they first took out the most important rival who could have helped US invasion. Same thing here they have taken the voice of reason out and there seems like something even bigger coming. Again I hope not.
The attention will al be diverted for now at BB, and they may have a plan in working.
re. slodhi "I remember 2 days before 9/11 when they killed the Northern Alliance leader."
Lodhi sahib, sorry to be discursive, but could you please job my memory on that connection? I remember reading about it sometime ago.
Well before they attacked USA, they first took out the most important rival who could have helped US invasion. Same thing here they have taken the voice of reason out and there seems like something even bigger coming. Again I hope not.
The attention will al be diverted for now at BB, and they may have a plan in working.
#163 Posted by a_r_j_u_n1 on December 27, 2007 2:21:47 pm
Blitzer Exclusive: Bhutto Blames Musharraf
Today on "The Situation Room," Wolf Blitzer revealed an exclusive e-mail he received from Benazir Bhutto's US spokesman Mark Siegel in October. "This is a story she wanted me to tell the world on her behalf if she were killed," Blitzer said, before reading the e-mail.
In the e-mail, Bhutto wrote that, if anything were to happen to her, "I wld [sic] hold Musharaf [sic] responsible. I have been made to feel insecure by his minions, and there is no way what is happening in terms of stopping me from taking private cars or using tinted windows or giving jammers or four police mobiles to cover all sides cld [sic] happen without him."
Today on "The Situation Room," Wolf Blitzer revealed an exclusive e-mail he received from Benazir Bhutto's US spokesman Mark Siegel in October. "This is a story she wanted me to tell the world on her behalf if she were killed," Blitzer said, before reading the e-mail.
In the e-mail, Bhutto wrote that, if anything were to happen to her, "I wld [sic] hold Musharaf [sic] responsible. I have been made to feel insecure by his minions, and there is no way what is happening in terms of stopping me from taking private cars or using tinted windows or giving jammers or four police mobiles to cover all sides cld [sic] happen without him."
#164 Posted by VRV on December 27, 2007 2:28:04 pm
Geo telecast a clip with sounds of two gunshots and loud bang. So the theory of 'prolonged gunfight' is not tenable.
#165 Posted by zeemax on December 27, 2007 2:29:19 pm
#160 Posted by PM,
There was no gunfight, though aerial firing would have continued by Police for some time as planned to look like an encounter. Yours is the police version. The only injury suffered on Police side was to the SHO (killed same night) on his foot which turned out to be self-inflicted.
See good old wiki's text below:
On 20th September 1996, he was shot and killed along with six supporters during an altercation with the police[1]. The police stated that Murtaza and his supporters had refused to allow police to search their vehicles as part of security measures imposed since the bombings, and that they were fired upon first.
There was no gunfight, though aerial firing would have continued by Police for some time as planned to look like an encounter. Yours is the police version. The only injury suffered on Police side was to the SHO (killed same night) on his foot which turned out to be self-inflicted.
See good old wiki's text below:
On 20th September 1996, he was shot and killed along with six supporters during an altercation with the police[1]. The police stated that Murtaza and his supporters had refused to allow police to search their vehicles as part of security measures imposed since the bombings, and that they were fired upon first.
#166 Posted by zeemax on December 27, 2007 2:31:33 pm
#164 Posted by VRV,
This discussion is about Murtaza Bhutto's murder.
But yes, I saw that clip too with two gunshots. Amazing that the bomber got both spot-on.
This discussion is about Murtaza Bhutto's murder.
But yes, I saw that clip too with two gunshots. Amazing that the bomber got both spot-on.
#167 Posted by a_r_j_u_n1 on December 27, 2007 2:35:34 pm
yes..it's amazing that any human being can get two reasonably accurate shots off at a target standing close by..
#169 Posted by masadi on December 27, 2007 3:33:54 pm
A recap and significance of today's events:
The American plan in Pakistan is moving smoothly, Iran is off guard because of the latest turnaround in the NIE, which was unprecidented, i.e. such a turnaround has never before happened in the history of issuing NIEs, according to CIA commentators.
In Pakistan, the plan was never for "democracy", it was to get Musharraf out of uniform, because the peon of old was becomming an "uppity nigger" (for those fools who want to red flag this comment read the context and the history of this term), i.e. too independant for his own good, so they woo'ed the BB and gave her assurances. Based on the assurances of the Shaitan, and not any "faith in Allah" or bravery, she returned home, evoking Musharraf to do what he did to save his uniform. Apparently the pressure from the Americans forced him to give that up.
Like I have maintained, this "democracy" slogan by the Americans who work via the Pakistan Army to subverts any and every remnant of democracy in Pakistan as well as destroy democratic institutions was at best for a stop-gap arrangement until their new peon brings in martial law again, at the heels of the Iran campaign. Musharraf could not be overthrown by the military when he was in uniform because it would fragment the military, i.e. harm the US occupation force indigeneously staffed, and was too risky to attempt.
In that context, getting rid of the BB (using the Pak Army) has paved the way for a new martial law, in this new upcoming martial law, Musharraf (who today refused to take Bush's call but then relented)will be the casualty and not the beneficiary. However, the people in Pakistan have begun to understand the shenanigans of the military/US alliance and will not stand for a new martial law. Because of the unforseen consequences of US meddling in trying to oust Musharraf not for the sake of the people of Pakistan, whom he has harmed a great deal, but for their own perverse ends, a dnew spirit of resistance emerged within the people, which will only expand.
Now what can be the unforseen consequences of this US action in paving the way for martial law. Like I have said, the Americans have found dealings with the Pak Army leadership more tedious with every successive dictator, not because they don't submit but because due to the distance involved they develop a false notion of "soverignity, and independance and indispensibility" and then do things that might not please their masters, the US elite would describe that as the "uppity nigger syndrome", therefore they want to fragment Pakistan, like they plan to with Iraq, not for any resources but to establish their military footprint in this area. The military coup will be followed by a civil war, which will be followed by US occupation of the Frontier and Baluchistan. The positive coming out of this, and don't think I am being insensitive when I say it, is that the US/Army/BB alliance was destroying the only true people's movement in this country started by the ZAB, as a result of this that movement might be saved from destruction and might play a prominent role in the lives of the people of Pakistan or mini Pakistan in the future....And that is all I have to say
The American plan in Pakistan is moving smoothly, Iran is off guard because of the latest turnaround in the NIE, which was unprecidented, i.e. such a turnaround has never before happened in the history of issuing NIEs, according to CIA commentators.
In Pakistan, the plan was never for "democracy", it was to get Musharraf out of uniform, because the peon of old was becomming an "uppity nigger" (for those fools who want to red flag this comment read the context and the history of this term), i.e. too independant for his own good, so they woo'ed the BB and gave her assurances. Based on the assurances of the Shaitan, and not any "faith in Allah" or bravery, she returned home, evoking Musharraf to do what he did to save his uniform. Apparently the pressure from the Americans forced him to give that up.
Like I have maintained, this "democracy" slogan by the Americans who work via the Pakistan Army to subverts any and every remnant of democracy in Pakistan as well as destroy democratic institutions was at best for a stop-gap arrangement until their new peon brings in martial law again, at the heels of the Iran campaign. Musharraf could not be overthrown by the military when he was in uniform because it would fragment the military, i.e. harm the US occupation force indigeneously staffed, and was too risky to attempt.
In that context, getting rid of the BB (using the Pak Army) has paved the way for a new martial law, in this new upcoming martial law, Musharraf (who today refused to take Bush's call but then relented)will be the casualty and not the beneficiary. However, the people in Pakistan have begun to understand the shenanigans of the military/US alliance and will not stand for a new martial law. Because of the unforseen consequences of US meddling in trying to oust Musharraf not for the sake of the people of Pakistan, whom he has harmed a great deal, but for their own perverse ends, a dnew spirit of resistance emerged within the people, which will only expand.
Now what can be the unforseen consequences of this US action in paving the way for martial law. Like I have said, the Americans have found dealings with the Pak Army leadership more tedious with every successive dictator, not because they don't submit but because due to the distance involved they develop a false notion of "soverignity, and independance and indispensibility" and then do things that might not please their masters, the US elite would describe that as the "uppity nigger syndrome", therefore they want to fragment Pakistan, like they plan to with Iraq, not for any resources but to establish their military footprint in this area. The military coup will be followed by a civil war, which will be followed by US occupation of the Frontier and Baluchistan. The positive coming out of this, and don't think I am being insensitive when I say it, is that the US/Army/BB alliance was destroying the only true people's movement in this country started by the ZAB, as a result of this that movement might be saved from destruction and might play a prominent role in the lives of the people of Pakistan or mini Pakistan in the future....And that is all I have to say
#170 Posted by slodhi on December 27, 2007 4:01:26 pm
Re: # 169
well put. This could be a possible scenario. Does anybody remeber what happened to Gen Zia. The US let their own ambassador die with him in the plane. How in the world Top 17 generals of the command board in the same plane. Because they have the guarantee: the American Ambassador in Pakistan. These generals didn't knew the meaning of "collateral damage".
well put. This could be a possible scenario. Does anybody remeber what happened to Gen Zia. The US let their own ambassador die with him in the plane. How in the world Top 17 generals of the command board in the same plane. Because they have the guarantee: the American Ambassador in Pakistan. These generals didn't knew the meaning of "collateral damage".
#171 Posted by ModiForPM on December 27, 2007 4:04:45 pm
May her soul rest in peace.
I was hoping her to be Prime Minister and normalize the relationship between india and pakistan more.
Feel sad for her, her family and Pakistan.
I was hoping her to be Prime Minister and normalize the relationship between india and pakistan more.
Feel sad for her, her family and Pakistan.
#172 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2007 4:06:08 pm
PM,
... i hold zeemax, and people like him, personally responsible
#173 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2007 4:42:55 pm
guys, redflagging my post is like sticking your head in the sand ..... it is time we called a spade a spade ... there is no question that people who cannot come through power through the electoral process will continue to wreak mayhem hoping that they will come out on top out of this chaos ........ and all these people do not live in wazirisran and swat - some of them are clean shaven and use deodrant ......
#174 Posted by SajUK on December 27, 2007 4:56:08 pm
Benazir Bhutto. Inna-lillahi-wa-inna-ilayhi-raa-ji-oon.
#175 Posted by Kulharee on December 27, 2007 4:59:33 pm
re #173 Hamid Saab, you are talking about the 800 lb gorilla that no one is willing to touch? like the MAJ and his joker followers?
#176 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2007 5:10:29 pm
Re: # 175
kuharee mian,
... i don't know what you really meant, but as far as i am concerned the lines between the islamists and the non-islamists are clearly drawn ......
...... personally, i would not have voted for benazir but she was on the right side of the great divide .... hopefully, her murder will unite the forces of moderation and modernity against the retrograde forces of bedouin medievalism .....
kuharee mian,
... i don't know what you really meant, but as far as i am concerned the lines between the islamists and the non-islamists are clearly drawn ......
...... personally, i would not have voted for benazir but she was on the right side of the great divide .... hopefully, her murder will unite the forces of moderation and modernity against the retrograde forces of bedouin medievalism .....
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