Goodbye Pinky

hamidm #104 Maybe you should start dozing off during the day - a 10 minute nap after lunch works better than smelling the coffee in order to see the light (to mix metaphors).

Anyway, looking back at years of interaction on chowk, I am convinced you and I live in parallel universes. I live in the universe where Pakistan's lota is full. You live in the universe where Pakistan's lota is empty. So, I suggest we average it out and agree that Pakistan's lota is half full and half empty. Do we have a deal?

Re: # 114

Massaddi Mian:

While at it, why don't you point out the wrong in the sentence and whether you got the message or not?

"You have condemned your mind to the life imprisonment to this par course."

Which part you really are struggling to understand, in the above sentence?

I could have said "your beautiful mind", which would be indeed more accurate.

You fight a rear-guard action to push your regressive thoughts. The worse is that you delude yourself into believing that you are gaining popularity. In your web-sites you derive solace by justifying today's problem of one society by comparing with the yesterday's problem in other societies. You change no one's mind with such comparisons, those who, like you, believe in it, do not need your web-site.

Many on the Chowk will assure you that if you or anyone can find written or verbal authority in Today's India regarding Sati, that book will be banned, and that person will be in jail.

Just please grow up. It is not about absolutism, and it is not about the finality of thought/knowledge or messegnger. It is about ability to reason on one end to ability to define truisms that lay foundation of belief system on the other. I know you understand what I just wrote. Especially, if you could take the trouble of using mathematician Godel to prove finality and absolute authority of Koran through your constipated argument of self-reasoning.

You know the hollowness of your belief system. You are unable to move beyond 7th century to Mills par course, because you have imprisoned your mind, which indeed is beautiful when it is not abusive. Since I started pointing out, atleast your abuse has indeed gone down. All I can say my words are having some positive effect on you.

I have hope for 2008. Happy new year, Massaddi Mian.

Re: # 110 Posted by hamidm2 on December 30, 2007 10:42:53 am

[.. even when you die you might have to pay a fee to find a spot in an overcrowded graveyard ..]

Well paying a price for a service is okay. I wanted to know how much exactly do these various political parties charge, but as usual you skirted the question. If Zardari's charges are 10% for all projects in Pakistan, then what would Alt-F's gangsters charge?

A few years ago the illustrious short-cut Aziz was trying to rob the steel mill. Now what percentage would that be? And how much do these current day robbers get by their privatizing of Pakistani infrastructure?

BTW, have you heard from your favorite Shaikh Rashid? is he still in hiding? he may eventually join Nawaz? do you know? I hope we don't get a long post from your clueless friend.

Re: #113

Because the truth always hurts. However, a friend of mine, a Yusufzai Pathan, once said about Shinwaris that the only reason why they wouldn't sell their mothers for gold is because no one would buy a woman that ugly. The funny thing was that he was an extremely well educated and cultured man, a complete liberal by Pakistani and most other standards; however, he had no use for Shinwaris....;

Anil writes "Massaddi Mian:

You have condemned your mind to the life imprisonment to this par course."

Learn to write one straight sentence in English then we can talk about "imprisonment". Those entrapped by their ignorance, as your good (evil) self, cannot possibly know anything about freedom.

why are you pakis red flagging the facts - it was a real quote from a US official... The dude even refused to apologize for that... :)

http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19970807/21950383.html

Re: # 74

Massaddi Mian:

You have condemned your mind to the life imprisonment to this par course.

The above is the best summary of your profile. You do not even have a proper mirror to see your reflection and hate it.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 109

bubba mian,

it is a big range - somewhere between 5 and 50% ..... it can be as low as a 5% fee charged by the meter reader reduce your electriciy bill by fifty percent and as high as 50% of the duty on an imported luxury car ....... even when you die you might have to pay a fee to find a spot in an overcrowded graveyard ......

Hamid mian,

what is the going rate in Pakistan to sell away your party principles, policies and expectations to others?

You can answer in percentages, e.g. as you suggested Zardari would sell anything for a flat rate of 10%.

What percentage is needed to buy off the military? or the bureaucrats?

All those defense housing societies that were sold by the military, should also be put into the equation.

What percentage is needed to buy off the mafiaso dada of Karachi? What percentage is needed to buy off Nawaz Shariff? What percentage is needed to buy off any of those 50 or so political parties? Mullah diesel? etc, etc.

And who are the pay masters? In my estimate the biggest ones are the industrialists and the goons of NS or the PML-Q. I bet if extensive research is done and is validated the asking percentage by others would come out to be higher than what Zardari wanted as a flat rate.

Did you ever not wonder how the Pakistani rich elite get their financing through this bourgeois style robbing the national exchequer?

Pakistani military is getting $1B a year from the US, just to get it directed back to Boston.

Re: # 106

nasah,

..... i still refuse to open that ... that rag .... it goes straight from the mailbox into the recycling box ...... the day i open and read it i will join tahmed and start taking naps in the middle of the day ! ...... but they do say that the aarp is the most powerful lobby in this country - maybe they had someting to do with bb's murder ...... you just cannot trust those senile old fools :)

Speaking of Mr 10% and selling support to highest bidder - that's a time honored paki tradition - from high level generals in islamabad to smelly tribal leaders in NWFP... in the immortal words of some CIA dude - "pakis can sell their mothers form a few bucks"...

Pakis have been renting themselves out for all sorts of mercenary work for a long time... so why blame Mr 10% Zardari?... he is just doing what come natural to pakis...

Even BB's return to pakiland was part of US plan... her latest "brave" fight against jihad was only because that's what US wants - not because BB was really personally against that... after all, she whole-heartedly sponsored kashmir jihad...

rentier mentality - it's a fine paki tradition...

Re: # 100

"i ask myself: is this what i will be like in a couple of years ?! (i started getting the aarp magazine last year)"(hamidm)

only last year? -- man you are in trouble -- I am getting that crap for the last ten years -- and just looking at it aged me 20 years -- and I didn't even ask for it.

Now you don't think that the AARP did it -- do you? -- if it did -- I will cancel that unsolicited American rag -- right now.

Re: # 104

tahmed,

correction : "fortunately, unlike you (and the cat) i don't doze off in the middle of the day" :)

Re: # 103

tahmed,

sigh ! ........ all i can do is sigh ...... if it was up to me i would appoint aitizaz as the chairman of ppp and the cat would get scraps from the butcher everyday ..... unfortunately, unlike you, i don't doze off in the middle of the day .......

..... but keep on dreaming ........

#100 hamidm: no one asked "everyone in pakistan" if a bhutto has to lead ppp, so you are merely making an assertion, not describing reality.

the reality, best as i can tell, is as i described it below: for the very reasonable price of 10%, zardari will no doubt sell his support to the highest bidder. that is the reality my friend behind the assertion you made.

and you can be like me in a few years if you really put your mind to it!! here is how: get gym membership. while exercising your body on the eliptical, refresh your spirits by observing the serene view outside and inside, and exercise your mind by thinking profound, long-term thoughts. reflect, e.g., on the foolishness that causes Pakistani leaders (BB or Musharraf or anyone else, it doesnt matter) who all act as if they will live forever. BB names herself life chairman, when she could have stepped back and built up the party and let someone like Aitezaz come forward - she would still be alive, PPP would not be reduced to a 10% party, and she would actually leave a legacy rather than mere sentiments.

Farewell to light in the dark
A sad day for Pakistan, let us hope the forces of intolerance, repression and ignorance not win because f her demise, many a twisted mind will be celebrating in the caves of tora bora.

I’m no fan of dynastic politicians, simply because I think it’s another form of corruption, it tends to crowd out more talented individuals but, in emerging democracies it’s to be expected because people tend to identify with personalities rather than policies.

hamid writes "....... for a person who failed to get tenure at a community college in mississippi"

I have never been to mississippi, neither have I ever worked at a community college

Hamid: "........ don't push your luck, otherwise we will get you kicked off ....... "

Just as my original post stated the we is shaken to the core by my writings and will do anything and everything to try to rid these streets of me.

Re: # 99


tahmed,

..... almost everyone in pakistan knows that a 'bhutto' has to lead the ppp just as a 'wali khan' has to lead the anp ......makhdoom amin fahim will be the candidate for pm and zardari will try to act out sonia gandhi's role until rahul is ready to take charge (i do agree that he is a bad choice, but the ppp has no other options unless they want turmoil in the family and rank and file of the party) ....... wake up and smell the kava, but first crawl out from under the rock ! .

....... sometimes you drive me nuts with your naivity and scare the crap out of me .... i ask myself: is this what i will be like in a couple of years ?! (i started getting the aarp magazine last year)

Re: # 98

tahmed,

.... it seems that you are totally out of touch with the reality of pakistan - when was the last time you were there ?

#96 hamidm: actually, it is more like musharraf needs a zardari to cling to power. and no doubt, for the extremely reasonable rate of 10%, zardari will oblige.

and please restrain from passing your negative comments on the people of Pakistan. That merely adds insult to their injury caused by the characterless babu class.

SO sad,while India is busy in celebrations of New Year, thinking ideas, creative constructions, working for new projects in pipelines,for establishing new industries and improving existing Industrial GIANTS(as far as south east Asia is concerned) like Bollywood showbiz and IT, we r whirling in viscious circle of choosing bad leadership, creating more political jokers, incessant political debates religious manzras, and cheap political soap operas.
T.S.Elliot wrote:
I can see more and more clearly
the many many mistakes I made
The mistaken attempts
to correct mistakes
By methods which proved to be
regularly mistaken

Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 90

nikhat bibi,

...... i agree with you in principle, but unfortunately ppp needs a 'bhutto' to maintain its vote bank .... that's just the way it is

delusional masadi

" I know I am a very influential writer and my writing has affected you and shaken the core of your previous (uninformed) belief, " ........

....... for a person who failed to get tenure at a community college in mississippi, masadi mian sure has delusions of grandeur ! ....... look mian, 'publishing' on chowk and lulu.com does not qualify as 'writing' ...... and even on chowk, i think that the distinguished readership would rank you at the bottom and most wish that you would simply go away ...... i myself have called upon chowk management to ban you, but for some perverse reason they keep you around ........ don't push your luck, otherwise we will get you kicked off .......

With the brain of PPP Aitzaz Ahsan in Musharraf's vindictive gulag -- now even his phone lines are cut -- it will be another Musharraf's conspiracy to unleash Zardari on the hapless PPP. But nobody can take his right to grieve for his wife.

Will someone call Hillary and Edward to get Aitzaz Ahsan out -- from the bloody claws of that decaying demonic dictator.

U know I think we all should email sms at mass scale on media, to journalists to sherry Rehman or whoever we can reach to,PPP or anti PPP just 4 the sake of Pakistan..that pllllleeeeease save us from ZARDARI senior and his future malacious plans. This is age of information , we could certainly make a notion and move PPP guys to stop this madness and nonsense.I just do not understand how come senior original PPP workers can digest this declaration.
Nikhat Riaz

#90 Nikhat: The Bhuttos should have quit while they were ahead, i.e. with national - indeed world-wide - sympathy and sorrow at BB's assassination.

In putting the scoundrel 10% zardari forward, they have ensured that only fools will be looking to this family for leadership. Democracy does not apply to national elections only - it applies to party leadership too.

#73 hamidm: a vote for republicans is a vote for musharraf as far as i am concerned. and given the ideologues in this party who make even a village mullah in pakistan seem educated, given their miserable record the past 8 years, your confidence in 4 more years of a republican white house is..er..misplaced, imho.

and in any case, maccain may be a "good man", but he barely tied with Clinton for second place in the "Pakistan Test" presented by the Washington Post editorial yesterday:
Excerpts:
The Pakistan Test
Some presidential candidates show they can respond quickly to a foreign policy crisis. Some flunk or foul.
Saturday, December 29, 2007;

THE ASSASSINATION of Benazir Bhutto presented U.S. presidential candidates with a test: Could they respond cogently and clearly to a sudden foreign policy crisis? Within hours some revealing results were in. One candidate, Democrat John Edwards, passed with flying colors. Another, Republican Mike Huckabee, flunked abysmally. Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican John McCain were serious and substantive; Republicans Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani were thin. And Barack Obama -- the Democratic candidate who claims to represent a new, more elevated brand of politics -- committed an ugly foul.

Let's start with Mr. Edwards, who managed not only to get Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on the phone Thursday but also to deliver a strong message. The candidate said he had encouraged Mr. Musharraf "to continue on the path to democratization [and] to allow international investigators to come in and determine what happened, what the facts were." Those are words the Pakistani president needs to hear from as many Americans as possible. ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122 802445.html

Re: # 89Good Lord did u hear about the will? We have to bear Asif Zardari now till Bilawal completes his studies!!! My my. I really feel something fishy about this 'Will' . They say Benazir mader her will only 15 days back...I could hardly believe that she would have made that horrible mistake of assigning it to Zardari in any circumstances. If she had seen the coming risk of her possible assassination she certainly would have mentioned in her 'will' the correct approach to elect her successor as she knew Bilawal is young and fATIMA AND bHUTTO jUNIOR ARE FROM ANOTHER PARTY. Zardari!!!!!!!!!!! of all the great living PPP leaders.theek hai Punjab da sheir(Mustafa Khar) is old and BB had her political differences with him but Makhdoom Amin Faheem, Yousuf Raza gillani, Aitzaz ahsan , Nisar Khoro...how could these guys will work with ZARDARI????????? God! No wonder now Zardari wants quick elections so he can be the next PM God forbid..Benazir made many mistakes during her life and therefore strayed away from ZA Bhutto's path, lost loyal sincere PPP workers(Uncles)but this.........?But who can guarantee the credibility of that 'wILL'???????? "Ajab teiree qudrat ajab teire kheil,
Chichoonder ke ser mein chamnbeilee ka teil"
Sorry for such offensive comments for ZARDARI supporters.but is there any one really?

Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 88

"anyway right now it is not the time to debate upon IK's politics or exhumation of MAJ politics,but focus on murder of Benazir, future of Pakistan and substantial work for the unity of Pakistan. let's talk about Ik someother time."

Well said, many thanks.

Re: # 86 Dear just because IK has not opposed the "religious extremisim" and does not support "war on terror" (the popular thing these days)in a way u guys sees it does not mean he has no principles. It's just that you see the whole scenario with a different filter and anti PPP policies, anti King's party people (including me) have different perspectives. On grounds of principles you cant beat IK and he certainly comes up at the level of our dear founder. You might disagree with him but the way MAJ fought his battle legally and within constitutional frame work on ideolgies which he believed, bring him very close to IK.
anyway right now it is not the time to debate upon IK's politics or exhumation of MAJ politics,but focus on murder of Benazir, future of Pakistan and substantial work for the unity of Pakistan. let's talk about Ik someother time.
Nikhat Riaz

#83 Posted by zeemax on December 30, 2007 12:45:19 am
... and the poster at #81 fits in that category as well.

dude....u r the one after whom this category originated. calling taliban freedom fighters and not terrorists....this can only come from demented idiot like you.

Re: # 80

just one last comment, MA Jinnah opposed the Khilafat movement and refused to be part of it even though that was the popular thing to do. BB did the same when she opposed the extremist fringe element in our society, even though it was the unpopular thing. What has Imran Khan done or said? The exact opposite. Therefore, please do our beloved founder MAJ one big favor and do not compare him to this political opportunists who had the gall to blame Benazir for toeing the American line and condemning the extremists. MAJ was a principled man who never wavered, whereas the Khan has yet to show any principles. Thanks

thanks rf786 and Zeemax I have not read Malik99's interact. I jst dont want to see u being irresponsible with ur choice of words and get personal.If we the so called parheelikhee community behave in this manner, how could u expect any sensible action from the masses of Pakistan unfortunately which is mainly illetrate. 'Koi baat karo mager Khushboo jaisee baat karo'.
Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 80

Madam,

We are all entitled to our opinions, likes and dislikes. IK has his followers and I wish them all the best, but reserve the right to have my opinion and not be bullied by some pestilence known as zeemax. Thanks for the courteus reply, its becoming a rare commodity.

... and the poster at #81 fits in that category as well.

#77 Posted by Nikhat ,

Nikhat Bhabi, if you've read Malik99's interact about him, you would have known why people don't argue over his rants or ask for evidence. It is because this gentleman is an unqualified idiot, and regular interactors on this site know that too well to waste time with him.

#79 Posted by zeemax on December 30, 2007 12:09:05 am
Look, Taliban are not terrorists. They are freedom fighters.

Hail Zeemax....the saviour of the worlds, lord of the rings and every other title that may be bestowed upon someone who can utter the above B U L L S H I T. I though i had seen a lot of crazy stuff, including my own sometimes, but this takes the cake.

with people like you around, the world is wasting its time looking for the taliban in pak - afghan border.

Re: # 78"mein kis kee aastein pe talash karoon LAHOO apna, Tamam shehr ne pehne hue hain dastane" or something like that. Right now PPP is congregating where they will read Benazir's will, decide new leader/successor for them. let's see what her 'will' says. Thanks for advice though.
Well i think IK's political stature is growing everyday. Quaid-e-Azam also suffered similar kind of criticism even till to date. its not about how one end's his life but the way he lived it
Nikhat Riaz

#26 Posted by hamidm2

......... and just because baitullah mehsud denied having anything to do with it we should believe him ? .....

If Benazir herself beileved him, and so did her party members and continue to do so till this day, I think you should too.

Look, Taliban are not terrorists. They are freedom fighters. Even Musharraf admitted that in the Afghan Jirga. The terrorists are the Jhangvi and the Tayyaba. Remember the french naval killings outside Sheration Karachi? That was Jhangvi. Tayyaba also does these kind of ops.

And don't even mention Lal Masjid people. Their fight was with the army and not with politicians, otherwise first one they would have killed would have been the much easier targets of Ijazul Haq or Ch. Shujaat who were directly involved in the deception of the final failed negotiations.

How I wish you would use your ample mind more often than just spouting your hatred of anything Islamic.

Re: # 77

aray bhai,

My good teacher at school, the late Mr Fernandez had this to say, think before you stink, I can offer you the same advise. You should ask this question to the brilliant malik99, i simply responded to his false sense of victimhood.

As for IK and his greatness, I repeat, the only beacon of light was BB who had the courage to speak the truth, stand against tyranny and offer the ultimate price by sacrificing her life. Cretins like Ik had the audacity to say she had written her death warrant by condemning these terrorists. Niether IK or NS have the courage to say and do what BB has offered by laying down her life. So get your facts straight and stop idolizing false, establishment conjured gods.

Re: # 76Why bring IK into it. Certainly he has nothing to do with it. He is "The MAN" with courage and guts to speak and fight for his ideolgy openly and right in front of the faces of his political opponents. He is the 'SHAHEEN of IQBAl'.
Your analysis of his failed politician and toyshoy boy stuff is clearly another shallow attempt of u and ur clan's to divert the focus from real issue and from real culprits. Sometimes labelling to 'alqaida', infuriating Pushtoon Bhai's and sometimes shifting to Punjab, stabbing solidarity of Pakistan.
Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 35

malik99

I firmly believe that Imran Khan does not have the mental capacity or balls to carry out such actions. His only contribution is that of a toy boy for Qazi Hussein, other than that he is useless, failed politician. So, please do not flatter your self and do not strain those little warped sensibilities.

hamid writes "my man mccain ?"

The sob is a fanatic Iraq war supporter with that other Israeli spy in the US senate, Joseph Lieberman, and out and out racist (regardless of his "adoptions") when he supports policies of Israeli apartheid and mass killings of Arabs in ME. Edwards is the best out of the whole lot of crooks and thugs but the US elite is never going to let him win, their choice is between Hillary and Giuliani with the needle pointing towards the latter thug.

#72 anil, I think it is time you quit your obsession with me. I know I am a very influential writer and my writing has affected you and shaken the core of your previous (uninformed) belief, you don't need to cover that up with your constant obsession with me. On another note, my ideas have not trapped but liberated me from the narrow existance forced upon the world by the US elite, and yes I laugh often and am of a very cool and laid back demeanor...

Re: # 68

anil mian,

...... i just can't stand the democrats and specially hillary - she is a panderer with no priciples and there is something her that bothers me ........ so why don't you vote for my man mccain ? .... there is still a chance that he might make it ....... i agree that rudy is a petty crook, romney is a moron and huckabee is an ignorant mullah, but mccain is a good man .....

Massaddi Mian:

I read what you wrote about me elsewhere. I am not your problem. Your problem is your beautiful mind, and the par course of 7th century to Mills that you have chosen to exercise it. Everything else seems present and imminent danger to you. You have condemned your mind to the life imprisonment to this par course.

On another note, do you ever smile, laugh and joke? I had asked you earlier, and never got the answer.

I and ready to give Musharraff, a benefit of doubt, that this killer of two birds (BB, and democracy) with one stone is not him. (Anil)


Now I read that Nwaz Shreef is also in the hitlist!!

NS is against the US domination of Pak policies & never issued threats to Taliban or AQ openly. Then why they target him? Was by any chance ISI/Mush hand-in-glove with jihadists to Benazir's murder? Else why the GoP goes overboard with this tamasha on BB's murder?

Spine chilling if it's true!

Let me repost what I wrote about Hamid on another thread for the benefit of those who are wasting their time and good space trying to reason with this ignoramus:

repost:

The sum total of Hamid's wisdom is found in a couple of GWB's speeches after 9/11, other than this his other obsession is to bypass historical events of the past 13 centuries and lay the blame on the prophet and Islam without knowing either or their place in the current political economy. Just because his sense of humor appeals to some does not mean they should attribute that to "wisdom".

Re: # 66 hamidm

you can always retire in hinud land...

Hamidm sahib:

I and ready to give Musharraff, a benefit of doubt, that this killer of two birds (BB, and democracy) with one stone is not him.

But, Hamidm sahib, this (these) guy(s) have spoilt Musharraff's game. Especially, now in this election year, no more unaccounted $10-billion, even if outsourcer of services of Pakistani Army is sincere and indeed delivers.

Even worse, is that republican are screwed in this election year, and get Bush to show some results out of Pakistan. They cannot even fake orgasms.

Mein tou aapse kab se kah raha houn, Hillary ko support kariye. Aap sunte hi nahin.

Re: # 66

Hamidm Mian:

Giving this X-Ray of X-Ray in Joker Cheema's hand is like giving ustra to a monkey. This Joker was flashing it - as if he is not just tinker, tailor, soldier and spy, and expert neuro-surgeon who worked upon Benazir also.

The worst of all, the dust over her had not even settled, and this monkey was flashing his ustra. Aren't their privacy laws on medical records being handed over in monkey's hand.

It was a disgusting sight for me. If someone had done that with my mother's , or sister's X-Ray, I would have strung him and let another Joker flash him.

Where is human decency?

Re: # 62


anil mian,

.... i am still hoping that musharraf will do the 'right thing' ...... as someone with no family in america i am planning on spending the better part of my retirement in pakistan and therefore have a vested interest in its future ...... this morning, it scared the doo out of me when my brother said, "are you sure you want me to put in more money into your house?" ..... and he is the guy who refuses to lock the gate and often forgets to bolt the front door - today he hired an armed security guard ....... people like urstruly will do fine on social security and medicaid - i am the one who is fu*ked ......

Re: # 60

najam sethi has started seeing things; and then he has memory lapses about those.

Somebody pointed out high-level political murders in india and elsewhere... in india - most such events have been investigated and prosecuted in open courts of law... gandhi murder - nathuram godse tried and convicted... indira murder - culprits tried and convicted ... Rajive murder - a bunch of people tried and convicted - warrant still out on the mastermind living in Jafna...

The case was thoroughly investigated and presented in open courts of law - no conspiracy theories, no hanky panky, no machinations...

Now let's look at pakiland... Liaqat dude murdered - no prosecution, nothing... Bhutto's judicial murder - no remedies... Zia murdered - no nothing... now BB murdered - the whole situation is being very actively covered up, confusion all around, basic procedures violated, common sense assulted, it's a mad house out there... even in this day and age of ever-present media and scrutiny - pakis have done everything to burry the truth - right under world's glare...

I mean - come on pakis...

My advice as an idolator to the momeen nation following the cult of hate....... if a hindu Nepal can turn into a secular republic , so can Pakistan.........roll back the Islamic republic of PAkistan into a secular democratic republic.

Re: # 51

Tahmed sahib:

"i was willing to give musharraf a chance to go through with the jan 8 elections with the hope that the new parliament would be able to get rid of him somewhere down the road ....... "

With Hamidm Mian, I share the above sentiments.

This Joker Cheema, flashing X-ray image, has been my turning point.

This joker can only flash with Musharraff's consent.

Musharraff, if has such an irrefutable proof, should have the decency to hold back to go public till the matam period is over. Instead of sending a flahser, during this period he could have shared it with FBI, Scotland Yard and obtained independent confirmations, and gone to more believable media, CNN and Al-Jazeera included.


He also knows if it is a fake implant.

Of all people, he must know that it took Washington Post to release the tape, a few days later, the last time he tried to pull stunt.

When someone who has a pure diamond of information, that Joker Cheema claimed, he must protect it till the storm passes over, and then take it out in the most appropriate way.

Musharraff sits on top an organization that can protect this diamond, just as well it can flash the fake.

This time, I hope the demand for international transparency comes and enforced. It has been done in Lebanon, for Hariri.

With $10 billion, Musharraff has bound himself to it, unless this killing has a support of equally powerful force, like Saudi's.

He did get away for a few days, as a flahser earlier, only to be put in place by Washington Post. This time ... only Allah (he better believe in its existence), can save him.

Pakistan is burning, Bush cannot do a thing. He and his advisors, and even Saudis would want to wait and see, if Musharraff puts out this fire.

He cannot sing "I did not start the fire....." , and win. He must be very stupid to play this murder card. And others who have played aced him, if he cannot stop the fire.

They killed two birds with one stone, in this scenario. Musharraff must be a foolish man to play this murder card, and hope he will get away with it.

Either way, he can sing the blues "I did not start the fire...", but certainly not in Islamabad.

Whoever, besides DeGaulle, has said "Nations have interests, people have friend." Musharraff can start to negotiate with his friend to rescue him and bring him to Crawford, Texas. It seems that either he has lost it, or he has no control over. Someone for sure screwed up his game, and game for democracy in Pakistan.

this not america's war, it is pakistan's war


this assumes pakis are against the jihadi ideology that al queada espoues....heck, pakis were openly supporting the jihadi strategy before 9/11 and orange jumpsuits of gitmo sent their love into the closet..like kerry, pakis were for suicide bombings before they were against it..before bombs started going off in the land of the pure..while they were going off in srinigar, delhi or bombay, pakis were cool with it..



Poll: Bin Laden tops Musharraf in Pakistan

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf -- a key U.S. ally -- is less popular in his own country than al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, according to a poll of Pakistanis conducted last month by an anti-terrorism organization.

Additionally, nearly three-fourths of poll respondents said they oppose U.S. military action against al Qaeda and the Taliban inside Pakistan, according to results from the poll conducted by the independent polling organization Terror Free Tomorrow.

"We have conducted 23 polls all over the Muslim world, and this is the most disturbing one we have conducted," said Ken Ballen, the group's head. "Pakistan is the one Muslim nation that has nuclear weapons, and the people who want to use them against us -- like the Taliban and al Qaeda -- are more popular there than our allies like Musharraf."

The poll was conducted for Terror Free Tomorrow by D3 Systems of Vienna, Virginia., and the Pakistan Institute for Public Opinion. Interviews were conducted August 18-29, face-to-face with 1,044 Pakistanis across 105 urban and rural sampling points in all four provinces across the nation. Households were randomly selected.

According to poll results, bin Laden has a 46 percent approval rating. Musharraf's support is 38 percent. U.S. President George W. Bush's approval: 9 percent.

Meanwhile, al Qaeda has a 43 percent approval rate; the Taliban has a 38 percent approval rate; and local radical extremist groups had an approval rating between 37 percent to 49 percent.

Re: # 56 Posted by Urstruly on December 29, 2007 12:57:33 pm

[Bubba, I'd take what Najm sethi has to say with a grain of salt.] Why is that? Is it because he writes as he sees it? or does he promote any agenda, that you dislike? He is an honorable journalist, is he not?

The real enemy inside Pakistan, are those who have sold their soul to the highest bidder whether to acquire worldly material wealth or for the hereinafter wealth. There is no doubt that the bidders have been unscrupulous in their destruction of Pakistan. Of course, sooner or later this bidding will stop, and Pakistan will be free from the shackles of the unscrupulous ones.

At such time who will maintain our economic infrastructures such as waapda and defense housing societies? These self congratulating and indispensble ruling elite know for sure, a thing or two, regarding Pakistan's economic infrastructure on borrowed wealth and live to tell us about it. (Pun intended).

Pakistani ruling elite are the killers of mass capitalism.

this not america's war, it is pakistan's war


Those who say that Pakistan “should not fight America’s fight” and that Al Qaeda doesn’t exist because no one knows where its headquarters is located should finally renew their knowledge about the organisation. It is not headquartered in Sudan, as one retired military officer said on TV, but in Pakistan with an army at its beck and call in our Tribal Areas that is a force to reckon with. Before dubbing it an American war our analysts should ponder the chaos that will ensue in an internationally isolated Pakistan with Al Qaeda lodged in its guts. What may have begun as America’s war is now Pakistan’s war.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\12\29\story_29-12 -2007_pg3_1

Re: # 55

bubba,

.... why are you trying to disagree with me when i am bending over backwards to agree with you ! ....... that's exactly what i am saying - we should go after the islamists of all shades inside pakistan and outside ....... if you remember, i had even proposed dropping a couple of twenty thousand pound bombs on lal masjid and was against releasing any of those suicider-breeding women ......

.... what, do you want me to do ? ..... beat urstruly upside the head? ... i have even tried to do that, but he refuses to show up ...... if you have a plan let me know - i will send you a check for the cause ..... but don't expect me to break a sweat or a nail - that's what differentiates the secularoon from the muslimoon ....they love death more than we love life ........ jeez !

What I really find pathetic is the way the party of feudal lords or East India company kay najaiz bachchay are looking at a 14 year old as the heir apparent of their great leader. These pathetic excuse for human excrement could not find an adult to lead them and safeguard their interest. The propaganda machinery and media as it is under the gun of fouj and funded by East India company ki najaiz aulaad, is busy cultivating another personality cult around yet another "shaheed" whose great democratic party is clueless as to what to do just in case their graet leader take a ride to netherworld. This old order is about to be decimated. No doubt.

Re: # 55

Bubba, I'd take what Najm sethi has to say with a grain of salt. Currently white people and their brown chmmchas are working overtime to divert focus from their minion, the dictator, and towards the "real enemy". This is diversion part; but I do agree with Najm that Al-Qaeda philosophy that ghee seedhi unglion say nahin niklay ga has penetrated pakistan at the grass root level.

Re: # 54 Posted by hamidm2 on December 29, 2007 12:27:17 pm

hamidullah, [.. but if you can get together a lashkar to invade saudi arabia i will consider joining it !] hopefully it would be the islamic nations troops to get rid of this menacing regime. but until such time we should get rid of their cronies inside pakistan.

here is what NY Times has written

Al Qaeda in Pakistan now comprises not just foreigners or even tribesmen from border regions, but also Pakistan’s own Punjabis and Urdu speakers and members of banned sectarian and Sunni extremists groups, Najam Sethi, editor of The Daily Times, wrote in a front-page analysis. “Al Qaeda is now as much a Pakistani phenomenon as it is an Arab or foreign element,” he wrote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/world/asia/30pakistan.html?pagewanted=3&am p;am p;_r=1&hp

all right bubba ! ...

i am already on record for advocating the invasion of saudi arabia and the liberation of the province of hijaz ... what else do you want me to say !

....... look, the saudis are directly and indirectly responsible for all this chaos and mayhem .... they have directly funded madrassas, terrorists and others ...... and indirectly they have kept the dream of an 'islamic' state alive with their medieval oil-funded 'model state'.......

......... but, i don't think they killed bb ...... if you think they did, it is your perogative ...... i think the sons of the moon god did it ...... but if you can get together a lashkar to invade saudi arabia i will consider joining it !

Re: # 40 Posted by hamidm2 on December 29, 2007 10:43:31 am

hamidullah, what i have been suggesting is that Saudi Arabia is responsible for this killing. is that clear enough? the other parameters will fit right into its place, once we focus on this one point. can you agree with this premise?

Re: # 49

malik mian,

...... sorry, but i will not be drrawn into this useless discussion ........ political islam is a real and present threat to civilization and we have to deal with it accordingly ..... case closed

Re: # 48

tahmed,

........ i agree with you ...... i was willing to give musharraf a chance to go through with the jan 8 elections with the hope that the new parliament would be able to get rid of him somewhere down the road ....... now, with bb's assassination, i think that as long as he is there it will be very difficult to hold credible election which will have the support of all major parties ..... so the best thing he can do for the country is to go ...... he should do it to avoid further bloodshed and violence .......... if he doesn't, i am afraid he will be playing right into the hands of the muslims .........

Re: # 32

Hamidm Sahib:

"........good advice, but which people ? ...... "

Mein javab dene ki koshish karun ga, agar aap mere ko yeh bataa dein ki kis kis ke haath mein kitni badi-badi lathian hain?

Hamidullah #47 - "so you are suggesting that cnn, cbs, nbc, msnbc and cnbc did it to improve their ratings ?"

perhaps. But thats not my major point. My major point is that if Bush can take you for a ride on WMDs in Iraq, WMDs in Iran, and BB's killing, he probably took you for a ride on 9/11 too.

There is a saying in West Texas that goes "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" Its 6 years too late, but its never too late to admit that you were fooled thrice (!), by the same man. And that this war on terrorism is the biggest fraud since Pamela Anderson peddled her silicon dripping breasts as the "real thing".

This WoT was concocte to push neo-con agenda, just like every incident since then (like BB's killing) has been twisted to somehow fit the same agenda.

So when are you going to sit down to have an honest conversation with yourself? I suggest you do it today. Its weekend and the weather sucks. Besides, what best way to burry a shameful past then to do it at the end of a year - just so you can start a new year with a new YOU!

#47 hamidm: who got bb killed is not important at this stage. this is like debating the choice of paint for the deck when the ship is on the rocks.

what is important is - will law and order be restored in Pakistan (starting with restoration of the judiciary and replacement of musharraf's goons with a caretaker governmnet not beholden to musharraf) or not.

Re: # 45

malik mian,

..... so you are suggesting that cnn, cbs, nbc, msnbc and cnbc did it to improve their ratings ?........ i don't like cnbc but that doesn't mean they would conspire eith al-qaeda to kill bb ......

......... however, i do share your suspicions about the chaudharies - they look like thugs ....... however, my brother said they probably hired a madrassa student or lal masjid survivor to carry out the murder ....... according to him, with the drop in demand in kashmir, you can hire a suicide bomber for less than two lakh rupees in pindi ........ a homicider can be hired for about one lakh .... it is all about supply and demand ....... and just to show that it is not all that simple, my sister thinks zardari hired the killer - she thinks he looks like a crook ......... only the moon god knows the truth ......

#40 hamidm: you dont need to be the son of the moon god to understand what i wrote. just need to read a bit carefully.

what i am said, and what you agreed to intellectually yesterday, but are obviously unable to accept emotionally, is that military rule has run Pakistan to the ground. You would much rather take the easy route of blaming the "Abduls" whom you despise, rather than the "pukka sahibs" sitting in army messes lording it over Pakistan as if they were the Company Bahadur itself!!

#44 - ".... are you suggesting that george bush did it !?"

No, hamidullah. I am not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that al-qaeda killing BB fits the storyline Bush has been feeding the world. Imagine how unromantic and boring it would be if Chaudhuri brothers were implicated in her murder? Americans can understand eternal threat posed by al-qaeda, but Chudhuri brothers? Who the hell are they?!!

Remember, this is George Bush's era. Every dot somehow needs to connect to al-qaeda and war on terrorism. If it doesnt, then it is too boring to be covered on american media. American media is all about ratings. And coverage of a bombing by al-qaeda conjures far higher ratings than a bombing by Chaudhuri brothers.

I suggest, you close the doors, pull the drapes (urstruly might just be lurking in the neighborhood with his telescope), and think through what I have said in the last 2 posts. Look in the mirror and talk to yourself. If you need a confessional, I can arrange for that too.

malik mian,

.... are you suggesting that george bush did it !? ...... isn't that stretching it a bit too far ? ...... and for god's sake don't tell me that you too believe that gw and the jews were responsible for 9/11 ! ...... if that's the case, i am afraid there is no point in talking about this any further - i am not a shrink ! ..... you need to talk to shankar ......

anyway, my second choice would be pervaiz elahi ... why? ... because he looks like a crook .... i know that sounds kind of silly, but it is as good a reason as any .... i just don't like the guy

p.s. by the way, i still bush's policy in iraq ....... we need to stay the course

Please take time to visit the gallary and decide what came first; egg or the chicken?

***correction in #41:

"Now that we have you admit that Bhutto's murder was not a conspiracy,"

should read

"Now that we have you admit that Bhutto's murder was probably not done by jihadis,"

thanks hamidullah! as the Bush presidency is wrapping up, you too are beginning to sober up from the intoxicating kool aid he was having you drink.

Now that we have you admit that Bhutto's murder was not a conspiracy, we need to right another wrong. Remember 9/11? Bush told us that al-qaeda did it. And he said so within a few minutes of it happening. And he continued to say so despite the mounting evidence to the contrary.

Its the same Bush who told you yesterday that BB was killed by al-qaeda. Not that I want to divert this thread into a tangent, but I would like you to think the following in the privacy of your home when urstruly is not looking:

1. Bush lied regarding WMD in iraq
2. Bush lied regarding nuclear weapons in Iran
3. Bush lied regarding BB's murder in pakistan

Could you please at least consider that Bush may have lied about who attacked on 9/11? Just think on your own. You dont have to tell us on chowk, because urstruly, bulleya, zeemax and others may just hurt your pride. And when all else is taken away from a man, his pride and his balls is all he's got.

just think about it on your own. thanks.

Re: # 38

look bubba, i think i have done my share of ranting and raving against the fauji foundation and the goons in khaki for years ... heck i even came up with the term 'goons in khaki' .... the fact of the matter is that we still have one choice in breakfast cereal .....but that still does not prove that musharraf killed bb as you and tahmed seem to be suggesting ....... or are you saying something else that i am missing .... you know that, unlike the sons of the moon god, i am a simple minded person ......

Re: # 37

malik mian,

.... i have already admitted my bias on the other board .... here is what i said :

.... based on what i have seen on tv and everything i have read so far, i have to say that it is more likely than not that she was killed by a bullet ..... for god's sake the gunman was barely six feet from her - how could he have missed (unless it was a miracle as in pulp fiction !) ....... but why would the government lie about it? ...... that i still don't understand ....... whether she was killed by a bullet or a lever, the fact remains that security was inadequate and she was assassinated ....... period ......

..... i will admit that because of my prejudice against jihadis and suiciders and other vermin, my knee jerk reaction is to blame the muslims ..... tahmed, obsessed with musharraf will blame mushy, zeemaxullah will blame the jews, masadi will blame the us elite, arjun will blame 160 million pakis, urstruly will blame the kanjaroon and cantonment dogs .... take your pick - i am sticking with the muslims until someone comes up with definitive proof .........

..........

..... so malik mian, who do you think did it ? ...... take your pick: musharraf, imran khan, pervaiz elahi, the horrible hindoos, the jews, the cia, altaph bhai, ksa, nathu's grandmother ...... tell me

Re: # 36 Posted by hamidm2 on December 29, 2007 10:05:09 am

Hamidullah, the other day Hussain Huqqani was suggeting that 30% of Pakistanis (or approx. 50 million) live below poverty line, and another 30% of them live close to the poverty line. So that is in line with your evaluation of
[.. however, based on yet another informal survey, i have come to the conclusion that 20-30% of the pakistani public still support musharraf ..], who are supposedly considered as the rich or aspiring to be rich Pakistanis. You must be knowing Hussain Huqqani, don't you?

How would you like it, if suddenly this world turns around and we make the masses of Pakistanis true capitalists, by kicking out the carpetbaggers, thiefs thugs of the defense housing societywallas? But, again, we must just remain wondering who will be the chief of waapda, or the defense housing society development corporation!

hamidm "and nobody will ever know ..... in a couple of days the folks on chowk will also stop taking about it .... except zeemaxullah who is still trying to pin ali's murder and 9/11 on the jews ..... "


it is quite surprising to see people side swiping the mounting evidence that government is lying about what killed BB. the motive in doing so for people like hamidm is quite simple - raising noise, shouting taunts, and conjuring up "elvis is alive" theories discredits any attempt to find the real killers. and people like hamidm clearly fear that real killers may not turn out to be who they wanted them to be.

if hamidm's hue and cry that "she is dead, killed by beardos and so lets move on to killing beardos" gets traction in civilized country that hamidm resides in, then he should hold no grudge when his daughters are killed by a hick for being brownies of same complexion as mozlems. Since we all know that mozlems are genetically prone to being suicide bombers, that hick can be excused for committing this crime. Perhaps he could be pardoned by judge since a friend of his cousin's wife died on 9/11 which had traumatized him. And hamidm would understand that.

Re: # 33

urstrulyullah,

" the nation at large is fast reaching a consensus that it is time that napak fouj and the vicious dictator have to be eliminated if we continue to live as a nation." .......

oh, yea ? ..... sitting in the 'failed state' of michigan - but still assured of receiving unemployment, food stamps, medicaid and cheese if things get really bad - you and i can reach that concensus ...... however, based on yet another informal survey, i have come to the conclusion that 20-30% of the pakistani public still support musharraf ..... some of them do not have any faith in the mullahs and politicians and see no other allternative .... they might be mistaken, but that is what they think .........


p.s. in case you are wondering about your new name, i have decided to divide mankind into two groups - sons of the moon god and ordinary mortals ...... you and zeemaxullah belong to the priveleged group .. congratulations ......

rf786 "She courted death where others chose to either hide or befriend the murdering gangs of Lal Masjid."

rf, i have read your other interacts where you are suspecting Imran Khan of having a hand in killing BB. Unlike Zeemax, Urstruly, SR, Ijaz Gul etc, you have yet to provide any evidence to backup your assertion. However, I notice that no one has bothered to ask you to provide any evidence either. Which i think is a good thing, as it saves you from further embarassing yourself.

Now you are suggesting that that the Lal masjid folks were "murdering gangs". Again, it would be wiser to refrain from asking you the number of murders they committed. I know of the few instances where they kidnapped and released people. But I never heard of any instance where they actually killed anyone, until they were assaulted.

And no, suggesting that "these type of people" are the suicide bombers is not enough. This kind of blanket statement implicates you as a terrorist too in the eyes of americans, since you are from Pakistan.

Anyways, happy venting!

#33 Posted by Urstruly on December 29, 2007 9:03:33 am


our state has become a failed state


your state, MICHIGAN, is a failed state because of the downturn in the auto industry.

Re: # 31

Becuase of the continued occupation of our country by forces of oppression for so so long our state has become a failed state where we as a nation have failed to establish rule of law, social justice, equity and equality. We as a people always thought that "order" was the "law" but now this misconception is dying its own natural death. As a result whenever we face a crisis every little prejudice of ours rear its ugly head. The forces of obscurantism, lawlessness, and corruption exploit them to their advantage to the fullest, as it is evident in the post # 32.
There is no two opinions that as a nation we are as fractured as every nation becomes before it is destroyed by either internal strife or overcome by a foreign occupation. That point in history has arrived in our national life.

But situation is not that hopeless; beside all our differences, prejudices, and mutual hatered the nation at large is fast reaching a consensus that it is time that napak fouj and the vicious dictator have to be eliminated if we continue to live as a nation. The consensus is that Napak fouj and dictator are the single most reason of our destruction and misery. Please keep is mind that no consensus in history is ever 100%. So there are groups and people who have vested ineterst in keeping this system of oppression, corruption, docility, and submission alive and well. They will fight tooth to nail before they are ultimately decimated for good along with napak fouj.

Re: # 30

urstrulyullah,

" I advise you to be on people's side - because they always win." .........

........good advice, but which people ? ...... mohajirs, pakhtoons, baluchs, waziris, swatis, bearded, unbearded, men, women, hijras, faujis, civil society, fundamentalists, liberals, islamists, liberloons, jihadis, kanjaroons, suiciders, munafiqoons, homiciders, punjabis, awans, gujjars, shikhs, syeds, haris, landlords, nawabs, sardars, maliks ...........

........ so, which people ?

Re: # 30

Urstruly,

I can agree with you on the old system coming to its natural end but have my doubts about the people of Pakistan finally come to their senses and rebelling against the system. If the people is defined by a bunch of tribal folks driven by their traditions more than the passion of Pakistan as was clearly evident by burning of Pakistani flag in Swat, then I am afraid your people are in a serious minority that is going to be exterminated one way or the other.

And, yes I would like to believe that I am on the side of the people, only difference is that people are now being defined by regions rather than the state.

Re: # 23

and I thank you for your post; it provides the necessary evidence to support the crux of my argument. The argument was that the fabric of our society has been permanantly ruptured in such a way that heroes and victims of one faction have become the criminals of the other faction. The children of one faction are the terrorists for the other group and bear the penalty of death. The fine line that separates the right from wrong has been blurred or erased completely. Country is simmering with the prospect of an all out civil war which is about to engulf us all. As I said in my earlier post, it always happen when old order is about to be decimated. It is an undenieable fact that people of Pakistan have finally rebelled against the old order of corruption, cowardice, oppression and docility which has been oppressing us since the time East India Company conquered us. I advise you to be on people's side - because they always win.

Re: # 27

fuzair mian,

"who was behind the actual attack is another question that I have no answer for"

......... and nobody will ever know ..... in a couple of days the folks on chowk will also stop taking about it .... except zeemaxullah who is still trying to pin ali's murder and 9/11 on the jews .....

Re: # 24

fuzair mian,

"There is a human fallacy (some one with more training in logic than I can tell you the exact name of it) that holds that big events MUST have big causes. " .......... i think it is called stupidity ....... national enquirer, with its stories of alien abductions and martian landings, is one of the biggest sellers in america ........ so is the bible and the koran ........

Addendum to my earlier post:

I agree completely with SR that she was assasinated by whoever fired the shots and exploded the bomb. That is what was the ultimate cause of her death; the direct cause (bullet, shrapnel or severe trauma) is irrelevant. Now, who was behind the actual attack is another question that I have no answer for.

zeemaxullah,

......... and just because baitullah mehsud denied having anything to do with it we should believe him ? ..... wah, bhai, wah! ......... so why don't we believe brig cheema?.... he seems to be a nice guy and he also takes a bath ! ..... you are a good foot soldier for al-lah ...

Re: # 22

zeemaxullah,

..... i had said pretty much the same thing yesterday ... as a matter of fact, i had even suggested that the thieves of gujrat could have been behind it ......the government was quick to fix the blame because its minions are incompetent and stupid and they think they can cover up their incompetence by creating confusion - unfortunately, since the people happen to be sheep, it works most of the time .........

........ in any case, if there was a suicide bomber involved it was one of the numerous jihadi groups ........ it didn't even have to be a major group - it could be one or two of the basta*ds who survived lal masjid .... the root cause is the ideology that drives your friends .......

......... now stop spinning all these yarns and just sit back and enjoy your significant victory against the kanjaroon and munafiqoon ........

Re: #20 SR,

It's no use trying to inject a note of rationality or common sense or facts into the issue. There is a human fallacy (some one with more training in logic than I can tell you the exact name of it) that holds that big events MUST have big causes. So Benazir's death could not have been caused by a ten minute delay in taking her to the hospital or to the absence of a trained neurosurgeon on staff. It must have been the work of the four 'renegade' ISI commandos working for the Chaudhury's who got the wink and the nod from PM to go ahead and carry out the attack.

As Shakespeare said, "there are no comets seen when beggars die." Just like Kennedy could not have been killed by a lone nut case, Benazir's death was the cause of a conspiracy at the highest level. Oh yes, don't forget the subliminal messages being beamed to her via US NSA satellites to stick her head out of the bullet-proof vehicle when it passed THAT particular group of young men.

There, we all feel better now; lets all go out and indulge in some robbery, looting and random arson and destruction.

Although, I do wonder how it happens that there was a suicide attacker in that group of young men.... Just on the off chance...?

However, it should be remembered that there were four attackers waiting for Archduke Francis Ferdinand in Sarajevo, one for each possible route he could take IIRC, but he was killed by only one man.

Re: # 14

Urstruly,

Many thanks for this post, it helps in understanding the general malaise in our society where death warrants are issued simply because someone differs the religious clergy. Another idiot who is propounding this vile perception is Mr IK himself and the worst part is that society in general does not question this criminal mentality simply because it offends their religious sensibilities.

Some clarification required regarding the disinformation campaign:

1. Lal Masjid: BB had the courage to tell the truth even though it meant violent attacks on her character and person. She courted death where others chose to either hide or befriend the murdering gangs of Lal Masjid. For that in your opinion she deserved to die, I am not surprised at least you have the honesty to admit your opinions whereas we have others pretending to be offended by her demise.

2. She promised that