Tariq Ali December 28, 2007
#92 Posted by teshah on January 14, 2008 5:08:17 pm
#91 by Kazmi
I appreciate your good intentions but be ware way to hell is paved with good intentions. Just see how you have corrupted the very meanings of the words
'discipline' and 'corruption'.
I have given hereunder their dictionary meanings for your kind information:
Discipline:
"Obedience or self-control, often in the form of rules, and punishments if these are broken (In case of Pakistan raping the Islamic Constitution)
Corrupt:
"Being dishonest and willing to use your position or power to your own advantage" (By declaring, in the first place, "Anarabakamulaalah" i.e., "I am your Chief Executive " instead of saying 'Ana awalul Muslimin' i.e.,'I am the submitter to the Islamic Constitution of Pakistan'.
I appreciate your good intentions but be ware way to hell is paved with good intentions. Just see how you have corrupted the very meanings of the words
'discipline' and 'corruption'.
I have given hereunder their dictionary meanings for your kind information:
Discipline:
"Obedience or self-control, often in the form of rules, and punishments if these are broken (In case of Pakistan raping the Islamic Constitution)
Corrupt:
"Being dishonest and willing to use your position or power to your own advantage" (By declaring, in the first place, "Anarabakamulaalah" i.e., "I am your Chief Executive " instead of saying 'Ana awalul Muslimin' i.e.,'I am the submitter to the Islamic Constitution of Pakistan'.
#91 Posted by ImranOKazmi on January 7, 2008 3:57:20 am
While I understand your pain, perhaps this will enlighten you on the REAL ROOTS of our troubles.
Love and peace.
Imran
Brig Tariq Jilani
Director, ISPR
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Fax +9251 9271603
Subject: Telecon / Meeting with General [R] Pervez Musharaf
Dear Brig Jilani
You and the ISPR are well aware of my efforts to save and grow Pakistan vide seminars held for MNAs and politicians in 2006 and publicly available online at www.ahappyworld.info
Background
My efforts to stop smuggling of cell phones in Pakistan have yielded the country USD 1 bn vide CBRs SRO 391 in June 2001 supported by Mr Shaukat Aziz (who happens to be from the same IBA that taught me one thing “DISCIPLINE”), Dr Atta Ur Rehman, General [R] Khalid Basheer and the former Chairmen of CBR, Mr Riaz Malik and Mr Riaz Naqvi. I never asked the Government for even an acknowledgment of my efforts, while it is true that my focus on “governmental” affairs from 1999-2001 did cost me my job as my boss gave a damn to what the Government of Pakistan gained, he didn’t gain much during this time anyway, I survived and am Alhamdolillah, after 7 years back to the level I deserved as Regional Director for a European multinational covering 20 countries in GCC/MENA. All this time I silently continued my efforts to change the country’s policies to enhance foreign investments and law and order.
Past communication with the President (General Musharaf)
Back in June 2001 I wrote a letter to General Musharaf, then CE of Pakistan. To my surprise not only was my communication acknowledged I was invited by a Colonel Kamran Dy MS to CE to visit the “CE” house, now the President house, behind the Secretariat, where we had an in depth discussion. The core idea I proposed was to involve the Army in re establishing law and order in Pakistan besides many other ideas that are on record at the President House. Col Kamran informed me that this idea was discussed by the Core Commanders and in view of foreign pressure (remember this is pre 9/11) we couldn’t do that, moreover the Army’s role is limited to:
1. Give an “injection” to civil institutions
2. Exit once they are “fixed”
I disagreed with Col Kamran on this strategy and openly told him that not only is this incorrect, it will never happen, and when your core commanders DO realize this is wrong CHANGE the strategy. I WISH I was wrong then though time has proved me right.
Current Situation
Law and order
7 years down the road, corruption is rampant in Pakistan-the law and order system is NON EXISTENT, the Judges we have, never gave justice to the poor, the police is an exploited arm of the politicians and administration. Bottom line our PRESIDENT himself does NOT trust this system, hence his demolition of the judiciary, Benazir died due this gap, the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE FED UP WITH THIS LAWLESS STATE THAT YOU CALL “PAKISTAN” they are dying or moving out of the country, they face inflation beyond logic and have to fight to survive at all levels. YET I SALUTE PAKISTANIS living in Pakistan for their persistence.
Foreign relations/Media
From Tasleema Naseem, Brig Cheema and so many other jokers who played havoc with our image, not to mention the obvious: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DEAD AGAINST GENERAL MUSHARAF for their reasons (watch Syriana and JFK to get a better idea strategic and tactical actions in the region and priorities) – the recent press conference Gen Musharaf had, was he not able to grasp the animosity and bitterness in the questions? Who was funding GEO? Or the others, one must be stupid with a capital “S” to say “PPP or Nawaz” – there’s a lot more, and deeper into it as described above. Moreover, the TERRORISM card has been way too overplayed by Gen Musharaf and foreign powers have NO FAITH IN HIS ABILITY TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. In my view they are partly correct in this regard as I will explain in the “WHAT MUST BE DONE” section later
STATUS QUO: What is going to happen STEP BY STEP
1. IF General Musharaf survives assassination, he is 95% sure, by my book, to be deposed as President in a timeframe of within 180 days from now.
2. Interim government will hold polls in 90 days. Nawaz Sharif will be allowed to contest.
3. Elected “LOOTERS” from any party will take office, PPP or PML (N)
4. Phase “x” of corruption, lawlessness and malpractices will re-start in Pakistan, that was “controlled” to some extent in Musharaf era
5. The country will slide to oblivion
6. NO OTHER ARMY GENERAL WILL HAVE THE GUTS TO ENTER POLITICS ONCE MUSHARAF EXITS BY FORCE OR BY CHOICE.
7. The fate of the people of Pakistan (except “party” workers) will be sealed: SIMPLE, LEAVE PAKISTAN IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE
WHAT MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY BY GENERAL MUSHARAF
Put law and order on track
1. Realize and accept that the Army has TWO ROLES:
a. External defense: that you already excel in
b. Internal defense: that is currently with the “police” and “judiciary”
i. As the QURAN says Al RASHI WAL MURTASHI FI NARE JAHANAM i.e. Bribe giver and taker goes to HELL. YOU CANNOT CHANGE OR REFORM THEM (your judges and policemen). PERIOD. You triple their salaries they will STILL be corrupt and abuse powers.
ii. We need a SHORT TERM ALTERNATE SYSTEM during which time we refresh the force and judiciary
iii. This task can ONLY be done by either enforcing APC (Army Penal Code) via serving or RETIRED army personnel
iv. The benefits are obvious, the ARMY is the ONLY institution in the country which follows its CHAIN OF COMMAND DITTO, and there is LEAST corruption in the army compared to the rest (excluding supplies and all, that too at senior levels)
v. Look at the retired sepoys from the Army, they work as private sector SECURITY GUARDS for Rs 3200 per month WITHOUT CORRUPTION, their tummies are intact, they come to duty in ironed uniform ON TIME, they do NOT abuse authority, they FOLLOW their management.
vi. Reality is 80% of EX ARMY PERSONNEL ARE MIS FITS IN PAKISTAN, they don’t belong in this corrupt environment from the disciplined environment they came from. LET THEM ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER IN THE SHORT RUN LATER RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM CIVIL LIFE ON THE SAME PATTERN AS ARMY DOES
vii. Get army judges, QUICKLY modify APC to adjust to LAW NEEDS OF TODAY, REMEMBER our lawyers and judges are following antiquated systems and processes that the BRITISH used to RULE OVER SLAVES (Contract Act of 1872 and Companies Ordinance of 1935 renamed o 1984). Our intellectual think tanks can study models of excellence in Dubai and elsewhere and change laws to deliver SPEEDY JUSTICE
viii. Free the innocent inmates in jail cells, picked up for personal animosity or plainly a woman raped and held for Hudood! Raped further by policemen, poor serfs of landlords and mafia rotting away for no crime, even CHILDREN!
ix. DIVIDE ARMY INTO TWO PARTS, EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL, both report to COAS as of now.
x. General Musharaf: YOU CANNOT SHOW YOUR FACE IN THE OTHER WORLD IF YOU DENY YOUR PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED YOU FOR 9 YEARS NOT EVEN THE BASIC RIGHT OF LAW AND JUSTICE AS OUTLINED ABOVE
Put “Extremism” back on track
I do NOT blame the “WEST” Uncle “Bush” and Uncle “Brown/Blair” for their mistaken policies to handle terrorism, they DON’T UNDERSTAND ISLAM or how this WAR is working internally, YOU DO AT LEAST, why don’t you educate them that:
1. This is an IDEOLOGICAL war waged on the free world by Al Qaeda etc you CANNOT defeat it with cannons, for every 1 person you shoot, 10 more will be born, and INCREASINGLY from the educated class, not just the “Taliban”. CASE IN POINT, London bombing was done by INDIAN DOCTORS that UK cannot reconcile with until now (how come people born and bred and working in UK became “terrorists”?).
2. TO FIGHT THIS WAR, download and read my action plan on www.ahappyworld.info
3. Simply stated:
a. WE MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP THE FIGHT BY FORCE
b. We must get IMAM E KAABA and relevant religious icons to VISIT these areas and go live on air spreading REAL message of Islam of love and peace, General Musharaf doing it is not credible or enough we need role models these people believe in
c. Tell America and Europe straight “WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR ON IDEOLOGY OF MISUNDERSTOOD ISLAM, IT CANNOT BE FOUGHT OR WON BY FORCE AS OF RIGHT NOW” at they same time tell the Western media to START HIGHLIGHTING GOOD THINGS AND PRACTICES IN ISLAM that will soothe the pain on BOTH sides.
4. General Musharaf: You need to get HANDS ON to solve these problems, saying “GOVT IS DOING THIS AND THAT FOR A REASON” WITHOUT GOING INTO DEPTH AND SOLVING IT (like you told foreign journalists when they asked why they cant go to rural areas AFTER you INSTRUCTED them to “GO TO RURAL AREAS TO FIND WHAT PAKISTANIS THINK”, Sir! YOU MUST INVOLVE YOURSELF IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEYOND THE OBVIOUS.
5. Islam’s message is of peace and love, OPEN PAKISTAN’S BORDERS to EVERYONE, just charge a HEFTY VISA FEE
a. USD 1000 to visit Pakistan
b. USD 50000 to become a permanent resident of Pakistan
6. ACCEPT ISRAEL, all the Muslim TALK Pakistanis talk about is CRAP. Give visas to Jews and Christians. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT INTERNAL TERRORISM tell your people loud and clear that Islam propagates the message of love, we are LUCKY to be born Muslims hence our SYMPATHIES with NON MUSLIMS who DON’T KNOW THE REAL MESSAGE and through our CONDUCT, LOVE and GOOD BEHAVIOUR alone can we influence them.
I hope to have an audience with the President on phone or in person to apprise him of the situation and the actions he must take immediately.
Pakistan Zindabad!
Regards
Imran Owais Kazmi
Chief Thinking Officer, Strategy2Action
GSM: +971 50 5849562/ +971 55 8094119
www.crscube.com
www.ahappyworld.info
Love and peace.
Imran
Brig Tariq Jilani
Director, ISPR
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Fax +9251 9271603
Subject: Telecon / Meeting with General [R] Pervez Musharaf
Dear Brig Jilani
You and the ISPR are well aware of my efforts to save and grow Pakistan vide seminars held for MNAs and politicians in 2006 and publicly available online at www.ahappyworld.info
Background
My efforts to stop smuggling of cell phones in Pakistan have yielded the country USD 1 bn vide CBRs SRO 391 in June 2001 supported by Mr Shaukat Aziz (who happens to be from the same IBA that taught me one thing “DISCIPLINE”), Dr Atta Ur Rehman, General [R] Khalid Basheer and the former Chairmen of CBR, Mr Riaz Malik and Mr Riaz Naqvi. I never asked the Government for even an acknowledgment of my efforts, while it is true that my focus on “governmental” affairs from 1999-2001 did cost me my job as my boss gave a damn to what the Government of Pakistan gained, he didn’t gain much during this time anyway, I survived and am Alhamdolillah, after 7 years back to the level I deserved as Regional Director for a European multinational covering 20 countries in GCC/MENA. All this time I silently continued my efforts to change the country’s policies to enhance foreign investments and law and order.
Past communication with the President (General Musharaf)
Back in June 2001 I wrote a letter to General Musharaf, then CE of Pakistan. To my surprise not only was my communication acknowledged I was invited by a Colonel Kamran Dy MS to CE to visit the “CE” house, now the President house, behind the Secretariat, where we had an in depth discussion. The core idea I proposed was to involve the Army in re establishing law and order in Pakistan besides many other ideas that are on record at the President House. Col Kamran informed me that this idea was discussed by the Core Commanders and in view of foreign pressure (remember this is pre 9/11) we couldn’t do that, moreover the Army’s role is limited to:
1. Give an “injection” to civil institutions
2. Exit once they are “fixed”
I disagreed with Col Kamran on this strategy and openly told him that not only is this incorrect, it will never happen, and when your core commanders DO realize this is wrong CHANGE the strategy. I WISH I was wrong then though time has proved me right.
Current Situation
Law and order
7 years down the road, corruption is rampant in Pakistan-the law and order system is NON EXISTENT, the Judges we have, never gave justice to the poor, the police is an exploited arm of the politicians and administration. Bottom line our PRESIDENT himself does NOT trust this system, hence his demolition of the judiciary, Benazir died due this gap, the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE FED UP WITH THIS LAWLESS STATE THAT YOU CALL “PAKISTAN” they are dying or moving out of the country, they face inflation beyond logic and have to fight to survive at all levels. YET I SALUTE PAKISTANIS living in Pakistan for their persistence.
Foreign relations/Media
From Tasleema Naseem, Brig Cheema and so many other jokers who played havoc with our image, not to mention the obvious: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DEAD AGAINST GENERAL MUSHARAF for their reasons (watch Syriana and JFK to get a better idea strategic and tactical actions in the region and priorities) – the recent press conference Gen Musharaf had, was he not able to grasp the animosity and bitterness in the questions? Who was funding GEO? Or the others, one must be stupid with a capital “S” to say “PPP or Nawaz” – there’s a lot more, and deeper into it as described above. Moreover, the TERRORISM card has been way too overplayed by Gen Musharaf and foreign powers have NO FAITH IN HIS ABILITY TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. In my view they are partly correct in this regard as I will explain in the “WHAT MUST BE DONE” section later
STATUS QUO: What is going to happen STEP BY STEP
1. IF General Musharaf survives assassination, he is 95% sure, by my book, to be deposed as President in a timeframe of within 180 days from now.
2. Interim government will hold polls in 90 days. Nawaz Sharif will be allowed to contest.
3. Elected “LOOTERS” from any party will take office, PPP or PML (N)
4. Phase “x” of corruption, lawlessness and malpractices will re-start in Pakistan, that was “controlled” to some extent in Musharaf era
5. The country will slide to oblivion
6. NO OTHER ARMY GENERAL WILL HAVE THE GUTS TO ENTER POLITICS ONCE MUSHARAF EXITS BY FORCE OR BY CHOICE.
7. The fate of the people of Pakistan (except “party” workers) will be sealed: SIMPLE, LEAVE PAKISTAN IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE
WHAT MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY BY GENERAL MUSHARAF
Put law and order on track
1. Realize and accept that the Army has TWO ROLES:
a. External defense: that you already excel in
b. Internal defense: that is currently with the “police” and “judiciary”
i. As the QURAN says Al RASHI WAL MURTASHI FI NARE JAHANAM i.e. Bribe giver and taker goes to HELL. YOU CANNOT CHANGE OR REFORM THEM (your judges and policemen). PERIOD. You triple their salaries they will STILL be corrupt and abuse powers.
ii. We need a SHORT TERM ALTERNATE SYSTEM during which time we refresh the force and judiciary
iii. This task can ONLY be done by either enforcing APC (Army Penal Code) via serving or RETIRED army personnel
iv. The benefits are obvious, the ARMY is the ONLY institution in the country which follows its CHAIN OF COMMAND DITTO, and there is LEAST corruption in the army compared to the rest (excluding supplies and all, that too at senior levels)
v. Look at the retired sepoys from the Army, they work as private sector SECURITY GUARDS for Rs 3200 per month WITHOUT CORRUPTION, their tummies are intact, they come to duty in ironed uniform ON TIME, they do NOT abuse authority, they FOLLOW their management.
vi. Reality is 80% of EX ARMY PERSONNEL ARE MIS FITS IN PAKISTAN, they don’t belong in this corrupt environment from the disciplined environment they came from. LET THEM ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER IN THE SHORT RUN LATER RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM CIVIL LIFE ON THE SAME PATTERN AS ARMY DOES
vii. Get army judges, QUICKLY modify APC to adjust to LAW NEEDS OF TODAY, REMEMBER our lawyers and judges are following antiquated systems and processes that the BRITISH used to RULE OVER SLAVES (Contract Act of 1872 and Companies Ordinance of 1935 renamed o 1984). Our intellectual think tanks can study models of excellence in Dubai and elsewhere and change laws to deliver SPEEDY JUSTICE
viii. Free the innocent inmates in jail cells, picked up for personal animosity or plainly a woman raped and held for Hudood! Raped further by policemen, poor serfs of landlords and mafia rotting away for no crime, even CHILDREN!
ix. DIVIDE ARMY INTO TWO PARTS, EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL, both report to COAS as of now.
x. General Musharaf: YOU CANNOT SHOW YOUR FACE IN THE OTHER WORLD IF YOU DENY YOUR PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED YOU FOR 9 YEARS NOT EVEN THE BASIC RIGHT OF LAW AND JUSTICE AS OUTLINED ABOVE
Put “Extremism” back on track
I do NOT blame the “WEST” Uncle “Bush” and Uncle “Brown/Blair” for their mistaken policies to handle terrorism, they DON’T UNDERSTAND ISLAM or how this WAR is working internally, YOU DO AT LEAST, why don’t you educate them that:
1. This is an IDEOLOGICAL war waged on the free world by Al Qaeda etc you CANNOT defeat it with cannons, for every 1 person you shoot, 10 more will be born, and INCREASINGLY from the educated class, not just the “Taliban”. CASE IN POINT, London bombing was done by INDIAN DOCTORS that UK cannot reconcile with until now (how come people born and bred and working in UK became “terrorists”?).
2. TO FIGHT THIS WAR, download and read my action plan on www.ahappyworld.info
3. Simply stated:
a. WE MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP THE FIGHT BY FORCE
b. We must get IMAM E KAABA and relevant religious icons to VISIT these areas and go live on air spreading REAL message of Islam of love and peace, General Musharaf doing it is not credible or enough we need role models these people believe in
c. Tell America and Europe straight “WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR ON IDEOLOGY OF MISUNDERSTOOD ISLAM, IT CANNOT BE FOUGHT OR WON BY FORCE AS OF RIGHT NOW” at they same time tell the Western media to START HIGHLIGHTING GOOD THINGS AND PRACTICES IN ISLAM that will soothe the pain on BOTH sides.
4. General Musharaf: You need to get HANDS ON to solve these problems, saying “GOVT IS DOING THIS AND THAT FOR A REASON” WITHOUT GOING INTO DEPTH AND SOLVING IT (like you told foreign journalists when they asked why they cant go to rural areas AFTER you INSTRUCTED them to “GO TO RURAL AREAS TO FIND WHAT PAKISTANIS THINK”, Sir! YOU MUST INVOLVE YOURSELF IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEYOND THE OBVIOUS.
5. Islam’s message is of peace and love, OPEN PAKISTAN’S BORDERS to EVERYONE, just charge a HEFTY VISA FEE
a. USD 1000 to visit Pakistan
b. USD 50000 to become a permanent resident of Pakistan
6. ACCEPT ISRAEL, all the Muslim TALK Pakistanis talk about is CRAP. Give visas to Jews and Christians. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT INTERNAL TERRORISM tell your people loud and clear that Islam propagates the message of love, we are LUCKY to be born Muslims hence our SYMPATHIES with NON MUSLIMS who DON’T KNOW THE REAL MESSAGE and through our CONDUCT, LOVE and GOOD BEHAVIOUR alone can we influence them.
I hope to have an audience with the President on phone or in person to apprise him of the situation and the actions he must take immediately.
Pakistan Zindabad!
Regards
Imran Owais Kazmi
Chief Thinking Officer, Strategy2Action
GSM: +971 50 5849562/ +971 55 8094119
www.crscube.com
www.ahappyworld.info
#90 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 5, 2008 7:19:47 pm
Ras,
Pleae stop it! You are now officially the most uselessly prolific person on Chowk.
Pleae stop it! You are now officially the most uselessly prolific person on Chowk.
#89 Posted by Ras on January 5, 2008 6:52:54 pm
"We, the people, instinctively know the insidious and shadowy killers of Benazir Bhutto. We can sense them.
We know its not Taliban or their mutants. They are far more sinister. We have seen them attack us before,
by attacking those we have raised to pitch battles against them. But we don't know yet how to name them."
Nafisa Shah in The News at:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89612
We know its not Taliban or their mutants. They are far more sinister. We have seen them attack us before,
by attacking those we have raised to pitch battles against them. But we don't know yet how to name them."
Nafisa Shah in The News at:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89612
#88 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 5, 2008 2:35:34 pm
#85 ahmedmadani {"Re: # 70 Salim former priminister has passed away just few weeks back. Decency requires to bury gone old things.Even swiss prosequotor has officially stopped probe"}
Madani Sahib,
I sincerely felt very sad about her murder. Unfortunately, the behavior of PPP workers, supporters, and goons in the days following her demise has changed all that desire to be positive about the dead. Her evil legacy of violence, death, arson, looting lives on. :(
Madani Sahib,
I sincerely felt very sad about her murder. Unfortunately, the behavior of PPP workers, supporters, and goons in the days following her demise has changed all that desire to be positive about the dead. Her evil legacy of violence, death, arson, looting lives on. :(
#87 Posted by pavocavalry on January 4, 2008 10:59:59 pm
Re: # 83 Thanks for the correction.
Its possible that Liquat feared Bengalis as a political threat if elctions were held after constitution was passed.The first major rigging in Pakistan was held in by elections held in East Pakistan under Liaquat.
The disbandment of the CA was a sad affair.However while Congress immediately after partition had removed Section 9 allowing Gov Gen to dissolve CA, Mr Jinnah made sure that this power stayed with the Gov Gen.The same was not removed by Liaquat on MAJs death and this faux pas finally enabled GM to dissolve the assembly.
The Hindus were more educated without having attended MAO College Aligarh or Lahore.
Its possible that Liquat feared Bengalis as a political threat if elctions were held after constitution was passed.The first major rigging in Pakistan was held in by elections held in East Pakistan under Liaquat.
The disbandment of the CA was a sad affair.However while Congress immediately after partition had removed Section 9 allowing Gov Gen to dissolve CA, Mr Jinnah made sure that this power stayed with the Gov Gen.The same was not removed by Liaquat on MAJs death and this faux pas finally enabled GM to dissolve the assembly.
The Hindus were more educated without having attended MAO College Aligarh or Lahore.
#86 Posted by ahmedmadani on January 4, 2008 3:47:48 pm
Did QAMA had drafted rough draft of constitution ? Was working on document ? Any body knows. YLH as best historian can throw light. He had in mind Islamic democratic socialist or communism+ islamic tradition type socialist way ? He was more with feudals but think he had same attraction for Russia as Nehru and his father ?
#85 Posted by ahmedmadani on January 4, 2008 3:37:59 pm
Re: # 70 Salim former priminister has passed away just few weeks back. Decency requires to bury gone old things.Even swiss prosequotor has officially stopped probe.You know she must have something good, for dead people good washes away only misdids are remembered. Finally ashes to ashes and time to be kind and forget and forgive.What you are saying 1.5 billion dollars at end you can take with you. Life is sad for sure. Good day.
#84 Posted by tvarad on January 4, 2008 2:40:10 pm
#78 Nasah,
Good points succinctly put. One other point was that Congress (by extension the Indian Govt.) was deeply suspicious of the army taking over India from day one, which is why for years it deprived it of the resources it needed. It ensured that the army never entered the political arena but also, along with a naive foreign policy, led to the '62 China debacle.
Good points succinctly put. One other point was that Congress (by extension the Indian Govt.) was deeply suspicious of the army taking over India from day one, which is why for years it deprived it of the resources it needed. It ensured that the army never entered the political arena but also, along with a naive foreign policy, led to the '62 China debacle.
#83 Posted by Jahanzeb.Awan on January 4, 2008 5:53:56 am
Re: #82: You wrote that:
"the important fact is that Nehru made sure that indias constitution was made in 2 years while liaquat could not make it in 4 years."
If memory serves me correctly, the drafting of the Indian Constitution was completed as early as January, 1949 (and which was to come into force later). However, by March, 1949, we had just about managed to pass the Objective Resolution. (Whether it was necessary to pass the O.R. or not given the circumstances and whether the same could have been done without compromising the secular nature of our country is still a hotly debated topic).
However, in October 1954 (after seven years of gaining independence) when the Constituent Assembly had just about completed its task of drafting the constitution (and which was to come into force early next year), the then Governor General dissolved the CA to serve his own mala fide ends. This dissolution was upehld by the Federal Court and it was on that day that democracy was truely de-railed in Pakistan; never to come back on track again.
"the important fact is that Nehru made sure that indias constitution was made in 2 years while liaquat could not make it in 4 years."
If memory serves me correctly, the drafting of the Indian Constitution was completed as early as January, 1949 (and which was to come into force later). However, by March, 1949, we had just about managed to pass the Objective Resolution. (Whether it was necessary to pass the O.R. or not given the circumstances and whether the same could have been done without compromising the secular nature of our country is still a hotly debated topic).
However, in October 1954 (after seven years of gaining independence) when the Constituent Assembly had just about completed its task of drafting the constitution (and which was to come into force early next year), the then Governor General dissolved the CA to serve his own mala fide ends. This dissolution was upehld by the Federal Court and it was on that day that democracy was truely de-railed in Pakistan; never to come back on track again.
#82 Posted by pavocavalry on January 2, 2008 8:34:31 pm
Re: # 78 the important fact is that Nehru made sure that indias constitution was made in 2 years while liaquat could not make it in 4 years.
the great thing about indias constititions was that any province could secede.this was however later removed i think in late 50s or early 60s.
the great thing about indias constititions was that any province could secede.this was however later removed i think in late 50s or early 60s.
#79 Posted by krashid1961 on January 2, 2008 8:02:15 pm
Nasah:
Still the socialist and communist thought that idea of Pakistan falls within the rights of nation for self determination and were at loggerheads with Congress on this point.
Still the socialist and communist thought that idea of Pakistan falls within the rights of nation for self determination and were at loggerheads with Congress on this point.
#78 Posted by nasah on January 2, 2008 4:46:42 pm
"Nehru's long tenure as PM may have been the difference. Pakistan was orphaned within four years."(Salim)
I don't think that was all -- the real difference was the Congress versus the Muslim League -- Congress was inclusive Muslim League was exclusive -- Congress was a huge socialistic umbrella Muslim League was Islamic wornout raincoat -- Congress had decades and decades of active history Muslim League had none -- Congress had a master plan for myriads of reforms the foremost being to abolish feudalism Muslim League had no plans even to urbanize feudalism. Congress fought the British lion with bare hands -- Muslim League sat through for the hand out -- Congress got busy after partition -- Muslim League was nonplussed after partition -- what next Mr. Jinnah.
I don't think that was all -- the real difference was the Congress versus the Muslim League -- Congress was inclusive Muslim League was exclusive -- Congress was a huge socialistic umbrella Muslim League was Islamic wornout raincoat -- Congress had decades and decades of active history Muslim League had none -- Congress had a master plan for myriads of reforms the foremost being to abolish feudalism Muslim League had no plans even to urbanize feudalism. Congress fought the British lion with bare hands -- Muslim League sat through for the hand out -- Congress got busy after partition -- Muslim League was nonplussed after partition -- what next Mr. Jinnah.
#77 Posted by nasah on January 2, 2008 4:18:42 pm
Re: # 71
Tariq's leftist tail goes on chasing the old dog in circles like that marrying mermaid guy of the satanic sea.
Tariq's leftist tail goes on chasing the old dog in circles like that marrying mermaid guy of the satanic sea.
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