This Pyre Will Burn…!

MAsadi 274:
When I look at ZAB era, I wonder how he singlehandedly, brought a defeated nation out of its shock and put it on its feet. I understand somewhat of his perspective and vision and agree with it.
In fact he understood the importance of Karachi and tried to appease Mohajir in other ways like bringing stranded Pakistanis from Bangladesh, Karachi Supermarket and other developments.

Re: # 274 ZAB sacked a very large number of sindhi officers also.justice sajjad ali shah told me that he was session judge in sukkur or somewhere in northern sindh in 1972 and one day he heard on TV that all senior officers of the distrit where he was based were dismissed.they were all sindhis.however its possible that more punjabis/urdu speaking were affected since they were in larger numbers in the services.

302 officers does not reflect the grievance of an ethnicity unless used for the purpose of being devisive. The quota system is necessary to undo injustices of the past. Nationalization is necessary to consolidate resources of an economy where industrialization is in its infancy for the people, to benefit the people through enhanced employment and to set roots for further industrialization through protectionism.

Bubba:
There is an interesting book on Jamate Islami, (I think a thesis written in America) and basically deals with the issue of evolution of political thinking of Jamate Islami. And how it has accepted the issue of election and democracy.
I see the MQM as such, If it has allied with Benazir, Nawaz Sharif and now Muslim League (Q), it is definitely trying to be part of Pakistan politics.
Even in Europe and parliamentary democracy if a party is elected to parliament, it is accepted as such.

mAsadi#271
There were grievances of Both Punjabi/Mohajir elite against Bhutto.
Nationalization and Purging of Beaureucracy of 302 officers mainly affected these two groups. Since Mohajir was middle and lower middle class but educated the policies of ZAB particularly quota system etc affected them also.
Language issue was also seen by Mohajir as a conspiracy to undermine Mohajir.
Slogans at that time were "Urdu Ka Janaza Hai Zara Dhoom Se Nikle Ga". There is still at Liaquatabad graves of 8 0r 10 martyrs of Urdu.
Currently Mohajirs new generation have accepted themselves as part of Pakistan and Sind as they are born and raised there. They are unaware of Partition and early history of Pakistan. The people born after fall of Dacca are 36 years of age And if you count age 10 as some sense then in middle age)

SC writes "e Mohajir/Sindhi rift appears to have been caused by ZAB and his attempt to nationalize everyting, and to force Sindhi language as a prerequisite for jobs etc..."

Please explain what the link is between nationalization and ethnicity. Regarding language, urdu as a pecentage of ethnic population is more widespread in Pakistan than Sindhi, and the grievances of the Sindhis (the indigeneous folk of the land, unlike the Mohajirs who's migration was a consequence of the MAJ's shenanigans and not the fault of the indigineous Sindhis- who still welcomed you with open arms) was the purpose of keeping the union intact. Don't make ZAB a scapegoat for your sickness which is showing us all that you are just another skunk like Arjun whose morality goes as deep as superficial constructs....

Re: # 266 Posted by krashid1961 on January 2, 2008 7:34:11 pm

[Bubba #181.
MQM is a political party and I will analyse it as such.]

I do not agree with your analysis. MQM is just a thugocracy, and nothing else. Their whole notion of discrimination based on victimization tends to be Jewish in nature. That is hypocrisy. Please do not dignify this kind of politics with those of NSF and the leftist movement of the 1960's.

Those students in the 1960's were for a new social order, whereas the "utaigeeras" of Burns Road and lalookhet only want to usurp human dignity and values of ordinary unsuspecting mohajirs. Have you ever heard of a leftist in Pakistan asking for a "buthhaa"?

MQM is a creation of the army and theocracy. Every so often they may change their color to suit the prevailing wind, but in their core is hatred of their adopted homeland. This is recognized by everyone.

On May 12, 2007, they killed so many Karachiites who just wanted to welcome the CJ of Pakistan. Only a Mafia goup conducts this sort of activity in their own city. MQM and their politics has always been a disgrace to Karachi and to Pakistan. The least that a future PPP coalition government could do is to outlaw this group.

tvarad writes "Given how the war on terror has been executed, I'm not so sure about your opinion of the US elite. I hope against hope that they realize Pakistan is like a plane with increasing velocity and decreasing altitude and band-aid fixes like elections are not enough for the gangrene that's set in."

I don't think you have a clue about what I'm saying. The gangerene is a consequence of US interference in our affairs and the Pakistan Army towing the US line in the country. The US elite use Pakistan, they are not interested in "fixes" if they don't coincide with what they desire. In their myopic worldview what doesn't affect their immediate group is of no consequence to them.

Salim_Chauhan Sahib,

Either you are the stupidest "Mohajir" to walk this planet,

or a plant of some kind (from which side of

the border I cannot but wonder) but let me assure you

as one "Mohajir" to another that the murder of

Benazir Bhutto was not to your benefit.


There are 250,000 to 300,000 stranded Pakistanis

or "Biharis" waiting in Bangladesh who would love to

be home in Pakistan. If "your people" cannot show even a

minimum amount of gratitude to the Sindhi people who

let us settle in their land then there is little I can

say about their future or yours.


I am glad that my old friend "Nusrat Rizvi" from the

newsgroups is not here but you are his reincarnation.

He did not have a day job either just like you.

Now please be kind enough to take your head out of the

loaded hookah and/or cut back on the bong hits.

Shukriah

Ras

Ijaz Gul
Correct me.
Jo Bache Hain Sang Samet Lo
Tane Dagh Dagh Luta Diya.

Bubba #181.
The movement against Ayub Khan under the leadership of ZAB started from Karachi, people were killed in Karachi, went to jail etc. Diehard PPP supporters are still diehard. Diehard leftists are still there.
During depoliticization during Zia era all that culture is softened also.
Karachi being a New York (meaning melting pot) had all trends if there were rightist, there were leftist.
Not to minimize the great contribution of people from Punjab or NWFP like Faiz and Faraz, but still Bethak and Coffee shop was mainly Karachi and Lahore.
The origin of MQM or APMSO started with struggle against Jamat-e-Islami and IJT, so naturally they are against theocracy.
As far as being Anti-Mullah. I don't think so. Their manifesto is not pro or anti religion.
As far as joining Jamat-e-Islami or JUP out of hypocrisy is wrong. That is analysis. For example why are you Punjabi or Pathan or Even Mohajir while a large number of them came from Arab, Afghanistan or Persia. Look at the last name of prominent politicians Gilani,Syed, Hashmi even the famous YLH is Hamdani. Are Hamdani, Hashmi or Gilani Punjabi out of hypocrisy.
I am not, never belonged to MQM. MQM is a political party and I will analyse it as such.

Re: # 247

Salim sahib:

You wrote so eloquently. Why was it essential to call them Mohajirs and create an identity? Even worse you call yourself Mohajir. After all if you call Juhi Chawla and Raveena Tandon refugee, they may ban you from watching their movies.

I do not think, Stuka for example, will like any Indian to call him refugee, just because his grandfather came from somewhere in Pakistan. I am sure Dost-Mitter would be the same too.

Don't you think, Mohajir identity should have been buried long time ago? Instead, Mohajir's should bring out a true Pakistani identity.

masadi 255:

"The army might play games to "keep the US involved in the area" but the US elite are no damn fools to play the army's games when their own desires do not coincide with."

Given how the war on terror has been executed, I'm not so sure about your opinion of the US elite. I hope against hope that they realize Pakistan is like a plane with increasing velocity and decreasing altitude and band-aid fixes like elections are not enough for the gangrene that's set in.

krashid1961:

"I would raise the point why Mohajirs are blamed only. Punjabi, Pulhtoon and Baluch also keep their identity and background in Sind."

I don't see how maintaining identity clashes with being Roman while in Rome. It's when a certain disdainful attitude is shown towards the locals born out of a superiority complex (if there is such a phrase) that problems arise.

#247 Salim_Chauhan:

"The Mohajir/Sindhi rift appears to have been caused by ZAB and his attempt to nationalize everyting, and to force Sindhi language as a prerequisite for jobs etc. Just how many languages should Mohajir kids learn - English, Urdu, Sindhi, Farsi, Arabic - I mean let's get practical."

I can see how you've endeared yourself to Sindhis (:-)). If I were a Mohajir, I would be grateful to the Sindhis for providing shelter in a time of crisis (of their own making, IMHO). I would ensure that my children would learn Sindhi out of love for the land and not because it was forced down their throats. I would go along with steps to bring a backward populace into the mainstream since the greatest source of instability is economic inequality(like SC/ST reservations in India; however unjust they are, I just don't see how forward castes in India would have given up their privileged political and economic positions without them). But hey, that's just me.

Pakistan banega afghanistan..

Pakistanis fleeing to Afghanistan: US commander
WASHINGTON: Several hundred Pakistani families have fled to Afghanistan in recent days to escape the turmoil in their country, US officials said on Wednesday.

And the Pakistani military has removed a small number of troops from a border post between the two nations to tend to problems elsewhere, said Col Martin Schweitzer, a US commander in eastern Afghanistan.

“Clearly, we’re very interested with what’s going on over there, we’re watching it pretty closely,” Schweitzer told reporters at the Defence Department. He said that so far, commanders have not seen any significant rise in cross-border activity in his area bordering the lawless tribal region of northwest Pakistan, though 300 or 400 refugee families have crossed into Afghanistan.

“We have not see a significant threat emerging,” Schweitzer said in a joint video press conference from Afghanistan with Arsallah Jamal, the governor of Khost province. Jamal said the refugees are being housed with Afghan families who were once refugees in Pakistan.

“We have received in the last two weeks or last 10 days a number of Pakistani refugees,” Jamal said, adding that they were “escaping the war” between the Pakistani military and Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters hiding in northwest Pakistan.

Schweitzer said the Pakistani military reduced troops at one border post by a small number, leaving only a small formation there, but they are still conducting their duties. Because of increased cooperation between coalition forces in Afghanistan and the Pakistan military, their operations are more effective along the border, he said.