This Pyre Will Burn…!

I would raise the point why Mohajirs are blamed only. Punjabi, Pulhtoon and Baluch also keep their identity and background in Sind.

HP "Since Pakistan has no oil, the Balkanization of Pakistan would create a permanent problem for the US and other powers in the area."

"Permanent problems" are no problems for them as long as they are in the "Green Zone". In areas that have grievances, local puppets can be easily setup to take the blame, local militias trained (as the US is planning to do in the Frontier even under Pakistan), and military presences guaranteed in a strategically important area without dealing with parasites (the Pak Army) that drains both the host (the Pakistanis) as well as the potential invaders (the US).

Stuka,

No, not Meos but Pathan; Yusufzai actually. Still have a few cousins who speak Pushto (from Gurdaspur actually; kept the language alive; my side dropped it many generations ago) and a few (closer cousins) married into very distant cousins in the Frontier. However, we are all Punjabis now ;-)

In #255 read "when their own desires do not coincide with"

as "when their own desires do not coincide with them"

Stuka,
I have heard of Royal Challenge, Signature, and Peter Scott. I may have tried one of those a long time ago. I had heard that Scotch can only be brewed in Scotland. But, you have a point, if one is not addicted to JW Black or Chivas, then some of the local ones are almost 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the imports. I thought that a court in Delhi disallowed Golden Bottling to use the word "scotch."

It doesn't matter to me anymore. :( I can't even enjoy good Islamic Efes beer :(

HP writes "The US aid to the army is the key factor and the army is playing a game to keep the US involved in the area"

The army might play games to "keep the US involved in the area" but the US elite are no damn fools to play the army's games when their own desires do not coincide with. The US is getting weary of the army games, and civilian leaders, predetermined for rule in the guise of "democracy" are an even bigger risk than Army commanders acting "uppity", as we saw with the BB who was eliminated through the US occupation force, abandoned by the Americans. All that remains there are the crocodile tears of Tahmed crying over the BB laying her life down for "democracy", even he is one step behind those whose policies he is trying to defend.

"Just like the fact that I love Taj Mahal and Kingfisher, but can't stand the Injun Scotch."

Which one? Royal Stag is quite at par with quite a few imported scotch whiskeys.

HP #251 {"The US tried to bring a civilian setup to help the Pakistani State but the US attempt was effectively foiled when Benazir was removed from the scene and now there is no need for elections as the US choice for PM(BB) is not there.
The Pak army also thinks that if there is any separatist movement in the smaller provinces, the army has the ability to crush those movements with force.
The Pak army is helping to hasten the end of Pakistan for its own ulterior motives."}

HP,
There you go again. Throwing sentences reflecting your often self-contradictory views on the wall and expecting to sound like Plato. You have many broad statements and then you reach for some pre-determined conclusion to suit your anger over BB.

The fact that before her sad demise, BB had mentioned that she would hand over A. Q. Khan to the US and that she would allow foreign soldiers to conduct jihadi shikaar on Paki soil, needs to be examined. Which country, pretending to be sovereign, can risk the election of such a Quisling?

Jang #250{"the conflict bet mojos and sindhis seems to be about entitlements..whenever we have such entitlements in india, conflicts do occur. case in point is that of shivsena...it was formed to ensure ghati employment in reserve bank of india."}

Jang,
If somebody ever calls you dumb, you refer that person to me. :)

Very good point. It's not race, language, skin color, religion, or even culture. Just like the situation in India, it's the unfair quota system imposed by PPP that has created this gulf between the two sides.

#240 Posted by rf786

“Balkanization of Pakistan has been on the table since 9/11, I do not remember the think tank but this theory has been proposed and discusses in quite detail. US administration has been behaving like an imperial power and there is a segment of US political administration that wishes to redraw all borders in the Muslim world.”

In this scenario the question to be asked is: how Balkanization of Pakistan helps the US?

Is Pakistan a threat to the US? Or, Pakistan has some resources such as the oil that balkanization would help the US to control it.

Since Pakistan has no oil, the Balkanization of Pakistan would create a permanent problem for the US and other powers in the area.

At this time the Pak army is fighting for its survival. It needs a constant source of funds to keep it afloat. Imo, Pakistan’s internal resources are just not enough to maintain the army any more. The US aid to the army is the key factor and the army is playing a game to keep the US involved in the area. The army has done it before when they tried to tie up the US in Afghanistan in the 80s.

The insurgency in the Tribal areas, the creation of another Zarqavi now called Baitullah Mehsud are part of the game.

Musharaf constantly is talking about the terrorist and their threat to Pakistan but as we all know the army only moves against the terrorists when the US pressure becomes unbearable. Otherwise, the army is happy to allow army units to surrender and bargain their release for some criminals in Pakistani jails.

The US has both its own and NATO forces in Afghanistan and the US needs supply lines from Pakistan. The US has also not given up its ambitions in Iran. Pakistan, its ports, and Baluchistan would serve as the staging area for any US offensive in the area.

The chaos in Pakistan helps the Pak army more than the US. The US tried to bring a civilian setup to help the Pakistani State but the US attempt was effectively foiled when Benazir was removed from the scene and now there is no need for elections as the US choice for PM(BB) is not there.

The Pak army also thinks that if there is any separatist movement in the smaller provinces, the army has the ability to crush those movements with force.

The Pak army is helping to hasten the end of Pakistan for its own ulterior motives.

IMO its very unfair to harp on ethnic assimilation in pakistan while quoting success if that in india. in india a community can naturally exist as is, form its schools and community centers, housing colonies and so on. they never have to "assimilate" and for the most part they dont..i.e. they do NOT intermarry and bussinesses are also started in biradari fashion. i suspect its the same in pakistan..prolly less so since some muslims pretending to be urdu-speaking (e.g. hyderabadi) can intermarry. the conflict bet mojos and sindhis seems to be about entitlements..whenever we have such entitlements in india, conflicts do occur. case in point is that of shivsena...it was formed to ensure ghati employment in reserve bank of india.

#248 {"Arriving Mohajirs in Sindh were equiped with better education, admin experience and brought strong Tahzeeb of their own while majority of local sindhis were mostly un-educated and were trapped by wadera shahi (landlords system or Jageerdari) who keeps the education and awareness away from their people in fear of retaliation. "}

NY Cool Bhai,
Very good point.

Anil Bahi,
As pointed out by NYCOOLest, there were two types of Sindhis left after '47 - the upper-class, very rich Vaderas and the serfs or haris. Certainly, the Vaderas wouldn't think of inviting Mohajirs to become their brethren and it wouldn't make too much sense for Mohajirs to volunteer becoming Haris. So, you can see why the Mojo developed their own societies.

Anil, In other parts of country and in examples you mentioned, the two groups live together and mix up civilizations. The assimilating group also smaller in size then the majority in your examples. However in case of Sindh, Mohajir formed a ghetto that was keep expanding and producing work and social opportunities within its own infrastructure. It was bigger then any other city in Sindh. The assimilation would happen if Sindhi culture and language was required to step up in economic ladder as we see in case of Pakistani Punjab where mohajirs assimilated well.

Arriving Mohajirs in Sindh were equiped with better education, admin experience and brought strong Tahzeeb of their own while majority of local sindhis were mostly un-educated and were trapped by wadera shahi (landlords system or Jageerdari) who keeps the education and awareness away from their people in fear of retaliation.

#245 anil {"I am so surprised that even after 60 years, people are called Mohajirs. That is not the case with the group who crossed over into India. Key success factor, to me, is assimilation.
Why is it missing among people of Karachi and Sindh, I would love to know? "}

Anil Bhai,
Finally a sensible post that addresses a very valid question. I have discussed partition and the state of our separated relatives many times with my grandfather.

In general, I can answer that when Mohajirs arrived in Pakistan, they were so preoccupied with the trauma, the relatives left behind, the lack of housing in Pakistan, the day to day survival that they did not think about assimilation with anyone. To their credit, even though they hailed from places as diverse as Delhi and Cochin, Lucknow and Madras, Hyderabad and Calcutta and were Shias, Sunnis, Smileys, and Bohras, they managed to co-exist, even inter-marry, and form lasting friendships and partnerships.

Quite a few Mohajirs, especially those who settled in the interior, did indeed become assimilated. There have been many marriages of Mohajirs with Pathans, Sindhis, and of course Punjabis, I know of a few Moahjir/Baluchis marrying also. Honestly, there never was a determined anti-Sindhi attitude by Mohajirs - infact, the first clash was with Pathans thanks to Gohar Ayub's tactics.

The Mohajir/Sindhi rift appears to have been caused by ZAB and his attempt to nationalize everyting, and to force Sindhi language as a prerequisite for jobs etc. Just how many languages should Mohajir kids learn - English, Urdu, Sindhi, Farsi, Arabic - I mean let's get practical.

Karachi itself was always pretty well a melting pot. It had all the ethnicities (Punjabi, Sindhi, Pathan, Mohajir, Makrani, Baluch) plus Christians, Hindus, Parsis, and even some Jews.

I think that poor HP and the latter-day bigots like Chacha and Bubba are just whipping up this anti-Mohajir and anti-Urdu hysteria purely out of their own personal hatreds and prejudice. The only thing that really created this so-called "Mohajir" unity among such diverse and multiethnic elements is the hatred, oppression, bias, prejudice, and unfair attitude expressed by successive regimes - Goo Lame Mohammad, Ayub, ZAB, ZIA, BB I, NS I, BV II, NS II.

If there is some air in Sindhi nationalism Asif Zardari would be the first to jump to it. His press conference proved the point that to him, to the Party and to the nation, Bibi was a symbol of fedration and not just represention of interior sindh.

Jiay Sindh Tahreek's popularity has plunged after GM Syed and the charisma of bhuttos. Elections proves it over and over again how sindhi separatists are rejected by local Sindhi population.

Re: # 230

Salim sahib:

"...economic advancement, female emancipation, and emphasis on education..."

You and I can repeat this mantra for all detractors or analysts here or anywhere.

"...Mohajirs only arrived in after partition..."

HP Mians of all color are very reluctant to fill the matrix of the three you mentioned above. That would be a very simple answer, and nothing to analyze upon analyze for HP Mians. In other words it is also called mental-masturbation.

May be their own answer that would stare their face they just do not like and are too scared.

I wonder, if you can explain, why Mohajirs did not assimilate and did as well as Sindhis, Punjabis and Hindus who crossed over?

I would think, Mohajirs who crosssed had better education than those who crossed over the other side. Today, Sindhis, west Punjabis (both sikhs and hindus) do not have a separate anything. They are very prominent part of Indian fabric.

Once in Mumbai, I met a family, and they kept saying they are Punjabi's from Mumbai. I asked them if they can speak Punjabi, they answered they cannot, but their grandparents could. Although their grandparents live in Delhi, and have not ever visited them in Mumbai. Similar to a classical melting pot, visible in many places in the U.S., would you not say?

Newly arrived Mohajir's plight and Sindhi leftover's plight may be that they refused to meld into one education, one market, one social, and even one political system.

I am so surprised that even after 60 years, people are called Mohajirs. That is not the case with the group who crossed over into India. Key success factor, to me, is assimilation.

Why is it missing among people of Karachi and Sindh, I would love to know?