This Pyre Will Burn…!

#186 pavocavalry {"British historian J.W Fortescue praised the courage of the Sindhi Baloch but said that they lacked discipline."}

Almost 170 later, nothing has changed. :) We could see this from the way she was buried and the way the Sindhis conducted their mourning.

#186 pavocavalry {"British historian J.W Fortescue praised the courage of the Sindhi Baloch but said that they lacked discipline."}

Almost 170 later, nothing has changed. :) We could see this from the way she was buried and the way the Sindhis conducted their mourning.

#183, It is refreshing to see you back in action leading the anti-Mohajir chant with the dedication of the most orange of BJP/RSS/VHP/JS/BD/SS goons. Also, enjoy the collection of fellow bigots assembled here. Are you guys having a convention or something? :)

#183, It is refreshing to see you back in action leading the anti-Mohajir chant with the dedication of the most orange of BJP/RSS/VHP/JS/BD/SS goons. Also, enjoy the collection of fellow bigots assembled here. Are you guys having a convention or something? :)

Bubba #179

Bubba,
I was right in knighting you the Paki Redneck. :)

#178 jang {"the mojos (i mean the central province wallas, not memons and bohras who you love to bundle in for convinience..they would have gone to whereever there was opportunity) were not exactly the hottest shyte of india then..after all they were the remnats of the long lost decadent empire..after the cruel setback they got in 1857, they clearly knew that they needed some sheltered place to become vigorous again as a community, and they got it...smart folks...but not exactly taj mahal builders that you claim them as. "}

Jang,
I am amazed at the Mojos ability to plan and manipulate events to their benefit. Awesome people they must be! No wonder the Taj Mahal is still standing. Great planning and fantastic execution. I am glad to be a Mojo and proud to be one. GA MOHAJIR. :)

#169, Pavocavalry,
I am now convinced that you are not a bigot. You are simply stupid and have no idea about history, which you read upside down while standing on your head.

Salim,
Your post desrves no response. It is not about Mohajirs.

#163, pavocavalry {"... the mohajirs were the real manipulators of muslim separatism.in UP they could not compete with hindus.in pakistan they got a real advantage in both jobs and business.thats why the gujrati memons and bohras financed muslim league.no major nawab or even a petty nawab migrated to pakistan from India.only younger sons came who could not inherit due to law of primogeniture. "}

Pavocavalry,
I think the cavalry went speeding by and left you as a reminder of their fleeting presence. :)

Your comment above is so asinine and so stupid that it doesn't merit a response. What law of primogeniture? You are not in jolly olde England. Muslims could not compete in UP, eh! According to Sadna, they had twice the number of jobs than their population.

What I love about bigots is that they deliberately make us waste our time responding to their fabrications and lies. This allows us not to spank them properly for their deserved curse of jingoistic chauvinism.

#162 HP {"Once Salim starts posting on any article, you know the quality of the discussion would go down right away.

This article is not about Sindhi and Mohajir disputes....That is the context of the article and any subsequent discussion. It is not about Mohajirs. ...I hope people would stop discussing Sindhi Mohajir issues and concentrate on what this whole article is all about. "}

HP Sain,
You have always been guilty of painting with broad brushes and not validating your facts. I have caught you several times with erroneous and ridiculous information about Indian geography.

While you are an established anti-Mohajir bigot and a confirmed Sindhi supremacist, I am also finding out that you are a deliberate liar as well.

If this article is about the Pakistani federation and not about Sindhi/Mohajir issues, then tell me, kind sir, why have you devoted roughly 30% of the space to one-sided, unjustified, and extremely bigoted presentation of how Mohajirs are responsible for the backwardness of Sindhis?

Just one question, HP. Mohajirs arrived after 1947. Why had the Sindhi Muslims been backward from 711 AD through 1947 AD?

#201 Posted by fuzair
"no 'real' Sindhi has anything against Parsis, Aga Khanis, Boras, Kachi Memons, Goanese and what have you's;"

That is very true but Fuzair please let this issue go.
I think Pavo is making some inaccurate statements and not backing them up with anything. I am busy right now could you please look into his posts?
Thanks!

Re: Salim and MNI,
Ok; apologies for the South African analogy; it was deliberately meant to be provocative and inflammatory.

However, the essential point I was trying to make was that even if the government is not actively transferring wealth to most members of a favored ethnic group, the built-in bias it has in favor of that group gives a leg-up to even poor members of that group. For the first half of Pakistan's history, that group in Sind was not Sindhis but the Urdu-speaking immigrants (not the Gujerati Memons, Aga Khanis, etc) from India.

As far as the 'other' immigrants to Sind/Karachi are concerned, I was at a wedding years ago (1980s; at the height of the MQM's power in Karachi) and ran into some old school friends I hadn't seen for a while. One of them, dressed in Kurta and tung pajamas, said something about "Hum muhajiroon ko." I stopped him, amazed that he called himself a Muhajir since his family (an extremely prominent business one) was from Gujerat and they'd been in Karachi since the turn of the century at least. He looked sheepish, laughed and said that if you want to live and do business in Karachi, you have to become a Muhajir and pay tribute to the MQM. As far as I know, no 'real' Sindhi has anything against Parsis, Aga Khanis, Boras, Kachi Memons, Goanese and what have you's; it is really only Urdu speakers they dislike for the reasons I (and others) have already mentioned. The MQM changed itself cosmetically: to the Mutahida Qaumi Movement and included other immigrant groups in its composition.

The MQM was, of course, created by the ISI to counter the JI and other Islamist parties; the monster got out of control of its creators. Anyway, the discussion has moved on so I'll end it here.

Regards.

Re: # 198 right sir.

Re: # 196 the army has lost its deterrent value. in WW One the brits controlled india with just 15,000 white troops,now 5 divisions of army cannot pacify tribal areas 1/160th the size of india.corps commander has been attacked.ISI has been attacked.the situation has radically transformed.the army has lost both its deterrent value and respect.

#192

Look again Judge Sain is also mentioned!

an article from the guardian

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jason_burke/2008/01/crisis_what_ crisis.html

How long will it be until Pakistan implodes? Take your pick of the analysts: a week or so as opposition parties take to the streets to complain about the postponement of elections, just announced; two weeks if the elections take place and the country descends into chaos; a few months and the mullahs will have poured down from the North West Frontier Province, seized Islamabad and the nuclear button; a year or so and Pakistan will have become another Afghanistan. Or perhaps it won't implode at all.

The latter seems the most likely to me. On my first trip to Pakistan, in 1993, the country was as unstable as ever. Nawaz Sharif's first government had fallen. Benazir Bhutto was back in power. Everyone was talking about a default on the country's debts, rampant militancy, war, political chaos, inefficiency, corruption, and so on. Living there in the late 90s, I heard the same refrain every day. Clearly the events of the last week have shaken many - and rightfully given the strategically critical nature of the world's second largest Muslim state - but perhaps the thing we should wonder at most is the astonishing fact that Pakistan successfully manages to keep itself together - apart from the inevitable and logical splitting off of eastern Pakistan to form Bangladesh in 1971 - not its manifest and manifold problems over 60 years of history.

In the two weeks in December I spent travelling through the backwaters of the country - in rural Sindh, in the belt between the mountains of the North West Frontier and the Indus river, in the interminable suburbs of Rawalpindi - what struck me again and again was not the chaos and political instability, but the tedious grind of everyday life in a country where half the 170 million population still live in rural areas and where for most people each day is tough, precarious and uncertain. People are far more politicised than they were a decade ago - or at least more informed - due to the spread of satellite television, but few are mobilised. Very few are actively engaged in politics. Fewer still are ideologically committed. A miniscule minority would or could fight. This moderate, often impoverished mass is the first pillar of Pakistan's bizarre capacity to absorb shocks that would destroy most nations.

Talk of civil war seems to me to be nonsensical, at least immediately. For who would battle whom? Again, it may seem counter-intuitive but the country is currently far too divided for an outbreak of organised civil conflict in the near future. The Islamic militants are split into dozens of factions, the Pakistan People's Party is on the point of splitting itself, Sharif and his people are hardly likely to turn to the rocket launchers and kalashnikovs and then there are the myriad ethnic and religious divisions too - to say nothing of tribe. Then there are the very strong interests in the army, the bureaucracy and the commercial sector who have a strong interest in keeping everything together. Perhaps in the long term a 1980s Lebanese-style free-for-all is conceivable but not right now. There is a constant violence - but at a micro, not a macro, level. Even in the anarchic western tribal areas violence plays out between villages and individual tribes - unless the army go blundering about "hunting fugitive militants". This very fragmentation lends a paradoxical stability too.

I'm not about to invest in the Pakistani stock market, nor buy a house in Islamabad (not least because the massive real estate boom of recent years makes it impossible) but I'd just point out that in the 15 years I've been travelling to, reporting on and living in Pakistan, its unlikely existence has always been continually said to be threatened but has always, albeit chaotically, continued.