This Pyre Will Burn…!

Re: # 387 good analysis. i think both india and pakistan need to be divided into smaller states.nehru was such a great man that in the indian constitution it was initially legal for provinces to secede.the proud pashtuns and baloch were never conquered by the punjabi muslims but now they are being kicked.thats a great tragedy.

Ref 240

`Balkanization of Pakistan has been on the table since 9/11, I do not remember the think tank but this theory has been proposed and discusses in quite detail.''

Why `Balkhanization' strikes a fear among people. It is a perfectly normal historical process.

When the people do not feel a part of entity, they choose to separate.(Bangladesh) And when people feel a natural affinity towards an entity, they choose to coalse togather (EU).

Afghanistan & Pakistan both are under stresses of this nature.

Afghanistan's Tajiks, Pashtoons, Uzbeks, Hazaras are artificially separated from their adjoing communities through artificial borders. Same is true for the Sindhis & toalesser extent Baluchis of Pakistan.

The Pashtoons are not only well represented in Pakistan's polity but their porus borders & loosely adminstrated border areas also keep their ambitions in check. Pashtoons tribalism & Islam mix up has also confused their nationalism with pan-Islamism.

Punjab (read Pak Army) controls Pakistan & feels satisfied. Sind & Baluchistan issue remains. And if the Pakistan State does not give them a feeling of ownership in the State, they would be well justified to ask for separation.

So is there any harm if the adjoing communities of Afghanistan & Pakistan merge with their communities across the artificial border lines.

Afghanistan & Pakistan vanish & India extends right upto the present day Southern Afghanistan.

It will be a big democratic resource rich stable country (with a historic identity) and with all communities satisfied within themselves.

regards

NHK

Re: # 378,
Fuzair, I am amazed!
The oil embargo of 1973 resulted in shifting of massive amounts of dollars into Arab hands. Funding from IFIs was challenged by inter state loans and the monetary position so created threatend the Gold Dollar Equation (Breton Woods). The master mind was efcourse Bhutto. Then classic acts on International Political Economy were put to play and the Arab World was led to spend heavily in security concerns. This is my response to Imran N Hosien's essay:

"I agree with the contoure of your essay. After 1973, lot of US capital (126Billion $) shifted into Arab hands due to price escalation. After eliminating Faisal and Bhutto, security threats were created in the Muslim world and this snowballing liquidity was converted to arms deals. Ironically, it also helped Pakistan accelerate the nuclear program.
Even in Benazir's time the legacy continued. She initiated the missile develpoment program and had tunnels dug for thermo nuclar devices in Chagai. She had a very bad altercation with Raphel in which the latter had to apologise. USA knew that she carried her father's streak. However, in her own logic, she wanted to appease the establishment a la Army that Bhuttos were not traitors but true Pakistanis."

Alas! she never could convince.

Cheerios

Re: # 358 Eklavya

"...For the first time, that internal fight is threatening to become real..."
What do you think 1971 was, a fake 'internal fight'?

Let me share with you this latest juicy tidbit:

Ras Sahib,
Why are you insidiously posting everywhere this shadowy soundbite from Nafisa Shah, whoever she is?

"We, the people, instinctively know the insidious and shadowy killers of Benazir Bhutto. We can sense them.
We know its not Taliban or their mutants. They are far more sinister. We have seen them attack us before,
by attacking those we have raised to pitch battles against them. But we don't know yet how to name them."

Nafisa Shah in The News at:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89612

Yup....jihadi sure is bleeding india...with Uncle Sam's support after 9/11, kashmir will soon banega pakistan..

Pakistan, OTOH, has blown past 9% in the past years and Pakistani companies are on a roll...


oh...wait..

7.2pc growth target unlikely, says SBP

* Central bank report says annual inflation may rise to 7.5 percent
* Economy faces challenges including large current account deficit

By Mushfiq Ahmad

KARACHI: The country is likely to miss its GDP growth target of 7.2 percent, and is expected to end the financial year with a 6.6-7.0 percent growth, the State Bank of Pakistan said on Saturday.

Inflation: It said annual inflation might rise to 7.5 percent in 2007/08, as the target is 6.5 percent.

#380 *parents

#364 bulleya {"....i have never figured out what is gained by putting india down (or pakistan down) in pakistan.....does it really make any difference whether pakistan is better than india or vice versa......"}

Romair,
It may have something to do with the unfortunate fact that Pakistan was cut away from India and people have always wondered if that was a sane thing to do. Runaway children often think what life would have been like if they had more common sense when they were angry at their partents. :(

Interesting article. However i beg to differ, as long as there are patriots alive in this country (and there are) Pakistan will neither die nor be separated. The Sindhu Desh ppl keep talking bout, any idea what benefits it would provide to the Hari class.. which is about 75% of Sindhis??? working their lives away for their waderas? right.. jack diddly squat. Perhaps the Waderas want a divided Pakistan so they can do whatever the hell they please without the slightest impunity. However the common Sindhi only wants his freedom from Fuedality.

Re: #370

Wow! What a kahani! Scherazade would have been proud to have woven such a tale! For every factually correct statement, there are 10 whoppers. I am truly impressed!

Re: # 376 When I say oppression its not only from I-Bad but Rural sindhis have asserted they are powerful and need change in social contract at home n rural sindh , they are on war path of being landless haris.If proper non bogoted leadership rises then it can lead to changed land ownership and they can breathe. Now not easy for leadership as these people are so suppressed as they use to say in Russia Serfs ( haris) are more loyal to land owning class than landed class it self. ( if one can not interpreat homely situation is better- Punjabis can be more loyals than royals---Pun intended) Good night.

This was timely article. Now I feel Sindhi's have come to this century. ExPM death lead to rumpage but this rumpages is unique and extraordinary. First time Sindhi's have asserted not by words but actions. I will elaborate briefly.
But to now amoung oppressed nationalities , namely Bengali,Hindustani Muslims, Balochis and Sindhi , sindhis had not asserted this way.
Bengali Muslims were insulted by QAMA Jinnah by his arrogent and illogical assertion of Urdu as national language and this concession to them of advicing they can use bengali at home. Then after some years "Bhasa" riots and Rulers finally conceded. That was turning point at heart Bengali new they have won and in long term they will achieve over throw of West pakistan domination. Then they waited patiently for for fruit to ripe , then it was just question of patience.
Hindustani Muslims for long followed people like Noorani ( religious)for long ,time and this leadership did not delivered , with time they were marganilised. Pathans were afraid of their muscular violent cultural ethos and Hindustani muslims were afraid of them of physically ,of damage to their little properties. The arrogent way of driving with out fear was their indirect expression. When Hindustani muslim saw a new rise of leadership amoung them and unity lead to Hindustani muslims resistance. Incidents of traffic accidents lead HM to not aggressive but assertive actons lead to change. Punjabi Pathan Ittehad was deated completely demolished and defeated in streets of Karachi by violent means and that was end of terror. HM became masters of their faith. Even afterwards killing by rangers, army led by Gen. Babar etc under both Pms continued the HM assertive leadership went underground and struggle continued till stalement was met. HM used unusual ways of struggle for their urban Gurrila warfare. At end the powers in I-Bad conceded to their rights.

B.chis was in struggle with with army from time of Bhuttos and they were pushed to corner by dismissal of govt led by Atta Ullah Mengal. Recent killings of B. leaders is going on but b.chis on on their ways to demand rights. They are most effective in their low noise wars by blowing rail lines, electic pylons and specially by blowing up of Gas pipelines. Few years ago they blasted pipeline which devasted industries and power supply even to Punjab and Sindh. Now they are assertive and to suppress from such activities army has to be lucky all time but they they donot have to be lucky much. Little amount keeps all army against them nervious.
Sindhis though saying for long time for national rights have been not successful due to strange leadership. Bhuttos ( Sr and JR ) have/Had no real sympathy for Sindhi rights as leadership was brought up in Bombay and Karachi, london , usa etc. When Buyttos were in nationalists were out. ( Army was adviced by Power house of usa to follow their German policy, germany was in nato but not powerful). Nationalists were at loss how to show difference between interests of "Family" and rural Sindhis. They were never successful ans loss to Sindhi interests. Poor people of Rural were in love with "Family" which is not uncommon throughout world due to no leadership.

Last rumpage seems to me break from past behaviour. Rural sindhis first asserted their physical power. Death of BB was like sparkplug firing which leads engine running.And then it sustained till agitative, young were able to bonafire all assets that they can hands on. They systimatically destroyed locomotives ( 22 they say realy number is over 40, 215 rakes real number is over 400s), damage traffic signals, banks, atms. They spared some properties methodically. Sindhis have drawn out their Paw and tested blood. Thousands of trucks burnt out, shortage of fuel, food , coal movement has affected country and industrialist are having nightmares of repeat problems.

H.M. Controll karachi and people become more reasonable.
Today those suppressed and defranchised rural Sindhi's have seen and shown and send message they can paralise country east west north south without and "family" guiding them.
Hope rulers do not consider it as a "Law and Order Problem" like they considerd for Hindustani Muslims in Karachi.
HP is right now Rural Sindhis have drawn first blood , they have understood power they have and can do and now hence forward they will struggle and will be patient but they have lost in short terms( arrests of rulrals sindi's ging with vigor) but have one in long terns for their national rights. Technicality of federation etc is of no significance to them.

There is genuine puzzlement, anguisn and despair in the minds of Patriotic Pakis even parochial ones on the state of their nation/country. It is similar to what Patriotic and Parochial Indians have about the 4 M terorr/anti-nationalism that our eternal mother faces.

The difference is that the 4M terror does not touch the vast majority of Indians (on this board) so that they are immune/indifferent to it or so denationalised that the plight of the motherland does not touch them any more.

A dichotomy that I feel that is the diff between the Bharat and Paki conundrum is that maybe we may have something here. We are so ideologically zero that maybe a combination of our pacifism and hard headedness (as in Punjab could) deliver a solution where ideological rigidity as in Pak may not be able to.

Sanatani

Re: # 369

Dude - it's called pakiland nationalism... for a long time - being anti-india was how nationalism was defined and practiced in pakiland... that was supposed to have kept the country together - united in hate for the hinud...

Things appear to have changed a bit recently - but not that much...

Re: # 358

{The real fight is less about whether any such thing as Pakistan will exist or not (although anxieties on that score are normal), but about what kind of Pakistan should exist. There is a tussle going on between different groups who each would like Pakistan to exist, but want it to exist on their terms. These are not non-Pakistani groups, but Pakistani groups themselves. Each of these groups (except balochis perhaps) considers Pakistan (as they want it) as a valuable entity, if they could preserve it. Most would be loath to destroy it outright, except in total desperation. Pakistanis are nowhere near that (and we hope, never are).

For the first time, that internal fight is threatening to become real.}

Real conflict is between establishment versus forces loyal to religious extremists and Baloch nationalists. Other so-called democratic, political, civil right activists do not have a material impact and that was abundantly clear after BB assassination.

Within establishment there are interest groups vying for power and influence. But they all have one thing in common, status quo or continuation of the present setup, thus conflict is limited.

Pakistan as a state has experienced conflicts from within and outside since its inception. Rather than allow the civil, democratic setup solve these issues through mutual dialogue and consensus opinion, establishment chose the path of confrontaion and subjugation. Thus the departure of Bengal. At one time we had Pukhtoons problem, thus the knee jerk reaction to ban NAP. When Sindhis protested the murder of their leader ZAB, they too were demonized as anti-state, marginalized and victimized. Baloch nationalists have been at loggerheads and suffered at the hands of a civilian and military structure.

Instead of finding political solutions to their problems, state or establishment has sought the divide and rule policy. They offer economic benefits to those who are willing to participate and political victimization to those who refuse to play ball. Thus the perception that "all" or majority of Pakistanis wish to retain the state in its current form. I think that is a mirage and can be easily dismembered when faced with economic or political adversity.

As for the internal fight becoming real issue, I believe for the first time Pakistani establishment is faced with the prospects of being declared pariah state thus the desperate attempts to lay the blame elsewhere.