H P December 30, 2007
#1 Posted by Eklavya on December 31, 2007 12:02:54 pm
For the sake of Sindhis and Pakistan, let's hope predictions here don't come true.
Speaking of Sindhi 'nationalism' in the same breath as Bengali and Balochi nationalisms seems like a huge overreach. This pyre is unlikely to have enough fire, at least for Sindhis as a separate group. And that's for the good of everybody.
Speaking of Sindhi 'nationalism' in the same breath as Bengali and Balochi nationalisms seems like a huge overreach. This pyre is unlikely to have enough fire, at least for Sindhis as a separate group. And that's for the good of everybody.
#2 Posted by Urstruly on December 31, 2007 12:16:24 pm
I do not agree with the thesis wnhile ostensibly many things seem to be true. For example, there is no doubt about, antiPunjab, anti-Pakistan, and anti-non-sindhi-settlers attitude and how they have magnified after the assasination and how they are going to be exploited and cultivated further.
But the contradictions lie with in sindh as well. There is no doubt that after 1971 debacle the sole purpose of PPP has been to safeguard the interests of feudal lords and Pirs. The fiefdoms of PIrs and feudals rein in the rural areas where human beings live at the cusp of being animals and humans. This is their vote bank; and it is controlled by a lethal combination of a very corrupt police, court, and land management system.
This Pir and feudal class have on their payroll a so called leftist intellectul cadre who works for them in controlling the the urban vote. Unfortunately, sindh is dominated by two classes of feudal & pirs - one class is the traditional feudals and pirs who inherit their fiefdom like bhuttos, Pagaras, etc. whose ancestors became khan bahdurs as a reward for turning renegades on their own people by siding with British occupation. The second class of feudals is the MQM whose leader likes to be addressed as pir; this is in fact a mafia that operates on the principles of feudal fiefdoms and demands loyalty at par with Pir-dom.
Now the contradiction is that that in order to control their own masses they need help from a Punjabi military which is the Ober-mafia and controls these small time crooks and thugs. So I think the feudals and Pirs will bust their asses to save their fiefdoms. That has already started happening when they chose Bilawal bhutto to use his inherited iconic stature to control the masses. The Pakistani media, which is owned and funded by these Pirs and feudals in the first place, is working on overdrive to cultivate another bhutto icon.
But the paradigm described above is the old order. The new order, which is emerging fast and engulfing the whole nation is the rise of an Islamist/anarchist insurgency which will settle at nothing but delivering death sentence to all those who have wronged Pakistan. Even the fouji government admits that there is a "hit list". That is the new order.
But the contradictions lie with in sindh as well. There is no doubt that after 1971 debacle the sole purpose of PPP has been to safeguard the interests of feudal lords and Pirs. The fiefdoms of PIrs and feudals rein in the rural areas where human beings live at the cusp of being animals and humans. This is their vote bank; and it is controlled by a lethal combination of a very corrupt police, court, and land management system.
This Pir and feudal class have on their payroll a so called leftist intellectul cadre who works for them in controlling the the urban vote. Unfortunately, sindh is dominated by two classes of feudal & pirs - one class is the traditional feudals and pirs who inherit their fiefdom like bhuttos, Pagaras, etc. whose ancestors became khan bahdurs as a reward for turning renegades on their own people by siding with British occupation. The second class of feudals is the MQM whose leader likes to be addressed as pir; this is in fact a mafia that operates on the principles of feudal fiefdoms and demands loyalty at par with Pir-dom.
Now the contradiction is that that in order to control their own masses they need help from a Punjabi military which is the Ober-mafia and controls these small time crooks and thugs. So I think the feudals and Pirs will bust their asses to save their fiefdoms. That has already started happening when they chose Bilawal bhutto to use his inherited iconic stature to control the masses. The Pakistani media, which is owned and funded by these Pirs and feudals in the first place, is working on overdrive to cultivate another bhutto icon.
But the paradigm described above is the old order. The new order, which is emerging fast and engulfing the whole nation is the rise of an Islamist/anarchist insurgency which will settle at nothing but delivering death sentence to all those who have wronged Pakistan. Even the fouji government admits that there is a "hit list". That is the new order.
#3 Posted by arjun_1 on December 31, 2007 12:34:21 pm
balochistan: check
NWFP: check
Sindh: check
Pakistan banega Afghanistan..and that would be a step up.
NWFP: check
Sindh: check
Pakistan banega Afghanistan..and that would be a step up.
#4 Posted by anil on December 31, 2007 12:42:56 pm
HP Mian:
You can write as many obtituary of Pakistan as you wish, like this one.
Today's times are not for successionist. Only exception to this rule will be if it can divide terror and weaken it.
Bhutto's last days rambling letter is a better history of him, than what you have presented here as analysis upon analysis.
Let me give you an alternative thesis.
Rest of the world needs Pakistan united. Until Pakistani Army gets the cancer of fundamentalism, and is rendered useless in fight against terror. There is no other love lost between the west and Pakistan. Don't start believing in your own propoganda.
Please put here, if you have an accurrate analysis to support or discard the above thesis. Not only me, but many in the corridors of power will like know what you have to say.
Till then keep coming up with recylces or useless analysis upon analysis.
Happy new year, HP sahib.
You can write as many obtituary of Pakistan as you wish, like this one.
Today's times are not for successionist. Only exception to this rule will be if it can divide terror and weaken it.
Bhutto's last days rambling letter is a better history of him, than what you have presented here as analysis upon analysis.
Let me give you an alternative thesis.
Rest of the world needs Pakistan united. Until Pakistani Army gets the cancer of fundamentalism, and is rendered useless in fight against terror. There is no other love lost between the west and Pakistan. Don't start believing in your own propoganda.
Please put here, if you have an accurrate analysis to support or discard the above thesis. Not only me, but many in the corridors of power will like know what you have to say.
Till then keep coming up with recylces or useless analysis upon analysis.
Happy new year, HP sahib.
#5 Posted by zeemax on December 31, 2007 1:07:43 pm
Ok Hamidm, you want me to claim responsibility, right?
Please go to my profile where Umme-Hassan's eyes see, where you're blind. This is from back in July.
It was not the Jamia Hafsa people, who never wanted it. They had said so all the time. It was their sympathizers ... those burqa clad girls' brothers. It appears their revenge is still not sated. I thought it had, but it hasn't. I don't think it will be sated for some time to come.
If you want to make peace, talk to Umme-Hassan. They haven't killed her yet. They can't.
Open your eyes.
Please go to my profile where Umme-Hassan's eyes see, where you're blind. This is from back in July.
It was not the Jamia Hafsa people, who never wanted it. They had said so all the time. It was their sympathizers ... those burqa clad girls' brothers. It appears their revenge is still not sated. I thought it had, but it hasn't. I don't think it will be sated for some time to come.
If you want to make peace, talk to Umme-Hassan. They haven't killed her yet. They can't.
Open your eyes.
#6 Posted by zeemax on December 31, 2007 1:10:09 pm
I haven't read HP's article ... It would be the same old shit which HP propagates ... the Sindhi nationalism and anti-Islam trivializing. I don't want to read it, but I will read the interacts.
Sorry HP, but that's how it is.
Sorry HP, but that's how it is.
#7 Posted by Ranjit on December 31, 2007 1:12:55 pm
HP, what is the participation of Sindhis in the Pak army? Why are Sindhis not attracted to the army like the pakhtuns are?
#8 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2007 1:21:31 pm
Paging Salim Chauhan... The dude here says you mohajir guys drove out the hinuds from sindhu... is that true?...
#9 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2007 1:43:38 pm
Yep - this Pyre will burn for a while...
Burn Baby Burn...
Burn Baby Burn...
#10 Posted by arjun_1 on December 31, 2007 1:47:44 pm
Will burn? It's already burning
here's the BBC video...there's a whole highway with burnt trucks.
http://tinyurl.com/2evd2v
here's the BBC video...there's a whole highway with burnt trucks.
http://tinyurl.com/2evd2v
#11 Posted by hamidm2 on December 31, 2007 2:07:16 pm
Re: # 5
zeemaxullah,
....... i still want to see both hassan and his mother dead along with the other hassan breeders of jamia hafsa ...... okay, maybe not dead, but definitely sterlized so that they cnnot produce more vermin ........ sounds heartless ?.....of course, but guillotines are not any kinder .......
zeemaxullah,
....... i still want to see both hassan and his mother dead along with the other hassan breeders of jamia hafsa ...... okay, maybe not dead, but definitely sterlized so that they cnnot produce more vermin ........ sounds heartless ?.....of course, but guillotines are not any kinder .......
#12 Posted by rf786 on December 31, 2007 2:49:35 pm
Saeen Adda
Happy New Year, wishing yo a prosperous 2008.
Happy New Year, wishing yo a prosperous 2008.
#13 Posted by mohar11 on December 31, 2007 4:17:00 pm
Re: # 10
whoa - massive destruction... wow - pakis have gone berserk in aftermath of BB murder....
any case - happy new year pakis and good luck... you need it... :) ...
whoa - massive destruction... wow - pakis have gone berserk in aftermath of BB murder....
any case - happy new year pakis and good luck... you need it... :) ...
#14 Posted by arjun_1 on December 31, 2007 4:28:36 pm
isn't 300billion paki rs about 5billion $ even though the paki rupee is the only currency doing worse than the $$?
That's almost half of the 10 billion $ from Uncle Sam for bombing pakis...
Pak suffers loss of Rs 300bn after Benazir’s killing
ISLAMABAD: A cabinet meeting was told on Monday that the country had suffered a total loss of Rs 300 billion of which banks suffered an estimated loss of Rs 100 billion, Online reported.
That's almost half of the 10 billion $ from Uncle Sam for bombing pakis...
Pak suffers loss of Rs 300bn after Benazir’s killing
ISLAMABAD: A cabinet meeting was told on Monday that the country had suffered a total loss of Rs 300 billion of which banks suffered an estimated loss of Rs 100 billion, Online reported.
#15 Posted by quin on December 31, 2007 6:20:53 pm
Tariq Ali's glimmer of hope that PPP might reorganize on new lines is already dashed.
After reading Tariq's article and before the news of PPP's decision, I have written. "... I had myself tried to see what hope, if any, is left, Tariq Ali’s article does show a glimmer in the shape of PPP reorganizing on new lines. But taking a closer look on the nature of forces working in that ambience, chances of that happening is a big if. A big cloud hangs over PPP if democratic principles are not upheld because of Benazir’s will which is not opened yet. Regardless, Tariq Ali had pointed to the right direction: the only hope lies in the people organizing through democratic institutions. But forces against progress and humanity are rampant and unbridled. Will this little seedling survive?
Hope is …. that tune which never stops at all”.
And then following were my sentiments before I read H P's "This Pyre will Burn"
"It is no more relevant what flaws personally Benazir had. What is relevant is to recognize how vicious, wicked and ruthless the enemies of people are and how fixedly they are determined to destroy any possibility of growth of even a semblance of progress. It is a simplistic view to see Benazir being murdered only because she was aligned with America. Her murder closes a chapter in the history of Pakistan and opens a new possibly bloodier and more tragic phase. Maybe it is time to start having a closer look into the basis of all that. There is something rotten in the state of Pakistan, the only other country in the world created based on principles of religious faith in contrast to British Imperialists’ own proclaimed beliefs in the principles of theory of nationhood. Maybe we now should wake up to the history’s cruelest joke and grow up to face the ironic reality in the eyes. And may be then we can begin to see what is rotten in that pity state of Pakistan."
After reading Tariq's article and before the news of PPP's decision, I have written. "... I had myself tried to see what hope, if any, is left, Tariq Ali’s article does show a glimmer in the shape of PPP reorganizing on new lines. But taking a closer look on the nature of forces working in that ambience, chances of that happening is a big if. A big cloud hangs over PPP if democratic principles are not upheld because of Benazir’s will which is not opened yet. Regardless, Tariq Ali had pointed to the right direction: the only hope lies in the people organizing through democratic institutions. But forces against progress and humanity are rampant and unbridled. Will this little seedling survive?
Hope is …. that tune which never stops at all”.
And then following were my sentiments before I read H P's "This Pyre will Burn"
"It is no more relevant what flaws personally Benazir had. What is relevant is to recognize how vicious, wicked and ruthless the enemies of people are and how fixedly they are determined to destroy any possibility of growth of even a semblance of progress. It is a simplistic view to see Benazir being murdered only because she was aligned with America. Her murder closes a chapter in the history of Pakistan and opens a new possibly bloodier and more tragic phase. Maybe it is time to start having a closer look into the basis of all that. There is something rotten in the state of Pakistan, the only other country in the world created based on principles of religious faith in contrast to British Imperialists’ own proclaimed beliefs in the principles of theory of nationhood. Maybe we now should wake up to the history’s cruelest joke and grow up to face the ironic reality in the eyes. And may be then we can begin to see what is rotten in that pity state of Pakistan."
#16 Posted by HP on December 31, 2007 7:17:28 pm
#1 Posted by Eklavya
“Speaking of Sindhi 'nationalism' in the same breath as Bengali and Balochi nationalisms seems like a huge overreach.”
Sindhi Nationalism is even stronger. First ZAB and then BB were able to put breaks on it not in ideological terms but by way denying them the political space. The Sindhi Nationalist movement already showed up when the PPP worker was chanting against the Punjab.
Narrow ideologies prosper when the space is limited for the broad and all encompassing debate. The Bhuttos had the lid on the narrow ideologies because they were popular and could talk in terms of long term broader alliance with the other provinces. Now, they are not there.
#2 Posted by Urstruly
“The new order, which is emerging fast and engulfing the whole nation is the rise of an Islamist/anarchist insurgency which will settle at nothing but delivering death sentence to all those who have wronged Pakistan.”
As usual this is a figment of your funny imagination. There was never going to be any Islamic insurgency in Sindh or in Pakistan. The only time the criminal insurgency, which you call Islamic insurgency, prospered was when you were following the call of Marde momin to Kabul. There is no public demand for the Islamic insurgency in Pakistan. That movie had since flopped and no one wants to play it any more. Maybe you wanna hire another Sutlan Rahi or Zia Ul Haq.
#4 Posted by anil
As usual I can only read the first line of your post. After that, I lose patience for nonsense!
#6 Posted by zeemax
Hehehehe….
#7 Posted by Ranjit
Sindhi in army?
Negligible!
“Why are Sindhis not attracted to the army like the pakhtuns are?”
Long story! to make it short, the British army never recruited in Sindh and even if they had, they would not have found many idiots to hire. The real reason: I think historically Sindhis have an aversion to the army. However, the army is able to recruit more conscripts recently due to growing poverty in the countryside. The educated Sindhis never bother about the army career.
Schootia_1
“Pak suffers loss of Rs 300bn after Benazir’s killing”
Hmmm... Can afford it! We still don't have 700 mil squatters.
“Speaking of Sindhi 'nationalism' in the same breath as Bengali and Balochi nationalisms seems like a huge overreach.”
Sindhi Nationalism is even stronger. First ZAB and then BB were able to put breaks on it not in ideological terms but by way denying them the political space. The Sindhi Nationalist movement already showed up when the PPP worker was chanting against the Punjab.
Narrow ideologies prosper when the space is limited for the broad and all encompassing debate. The Bhuttos had the lid on the narrow ideologies because they were popular and could talk in terms of long term broader alliance with the other provinces. Now, they are not there.
#2 Posted by Urstruly
“The new order, which is emerging fast and engulfing the whole nation is the rise of an Islamist/anarchist insurgency which will settle at nothing but delivering death sentence to all those who have wronged Pakistan.”
As usual this is a figment of your funny imagination. There was never going to be any Islamic insurgency in Sindh or in Pakistan. The only time the criminal insurgency, which you call Islamic insurgency, prospered was when you were following the call of Marde momin to Kabul. There is no public demand for the Islamic insurgency in Pakistan. That movie had since flopped and no one wants to play it any more. Maybe you wanna hire another Sutlan Rahi or Zia Ul Haq.
#4 Posted by anil
As usual I can only read the first line of your post. After that, I lose patience for nonsense!
#6 Posted by zeemax
Hehehehe….
#7 Posted by Ranjit
Sindhi in army?
Negligible!
“Why are Sindhis not attracted to the army like the pakhtuns are?”
Long story! to make it short, the British army never recruited in Sindh and even if they had, they would not have found many idiots to hire. The real reason: I think historically Sindhis have an aversion to the army. However, the army is able to recruit more conscripts recently due to growing poverty in the countryside. The educated Sindhis never bother about the army career.
Schootia_1
“Pak suffers loss of Rs 300bn after Benazir’s killing”
Hmmm... Can afford it! We still don't have 700 mil squatters.
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