This Pyre Will Burn…!

krashid#124:

This is not true. For instance, the entire neighbourhoods of Karol Bagh, Pahar Ganj, etc. in Delhi were ethnically cleansed of their Muslims in 1947; you are mostly correct about UP and MP, etc.

Shankar #119 {"You Pakistanis lost an extremely productive & intelligent community."}

Shankar Sahib,
You are absolutely right. Not only Sindhi Hindus, but losing Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs was a big loss - just like the Spaniards screwed up in expelling the Jews and Muslims and forcibly converting the remnants.

Once you lose diversity, you become a nation of homogeneous appearance, homogeneous vision, and homogeneous boredom. :(

Dost Mittar:
That was bad time. I don't know if there was mass migration due to fear or mass migration due to option.

Dost Mittar miaN jumps in with his own racial agenda. Dost Mittar, you are truly a disgusting man. So Sindhi Muslims killed one guy who's soft on Hindus. That's proof that there was some religious intolerance among Sindhis. Then, confronted with the inconvenient fact that Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus slaughtered each other by the thousands, you blame it all on IMMIGRANTS? This has to be the most over-the-top post I have ever seen. I used to have some respect for you because you seemed to be one of those Indians who do not hate Pakistan. I didn't realize that your love for Pakistan is really your Punjabi chauvinism. You are just another ugly racist.

As I said..this is a coming-out party.

#118 bubba {"This has been the mohajir strategy from day one, to express their victimhood and at the same time kill almost everyone who opposes them. Of course, in these interaction on this site, it becomes clear that the opening of the Khokrapar Line to Karachi brought the influx of the Gujrati speaking memons, bohris, ismailis etc to Karachi."}

Bubba,
Either your venomous hatred has affected your understanding or you deliberately ignore historical facts. You make it seem that just on the other side of the border, Mohajirs gathered, assembled, and planned to cross over in droves and take over all the treasures of Pakistan to get rich.

Also, Khokrapar was opened by Liaquat Ali Khan to allow people from Delhi and points east and CP and Rajasthan to come to Pakistan without having to run the gauntlet of aremd Sikh jattas in East Punjab who were mercilessly slaughtering Muslims in trains on their way to Lahore.

Please grow up and don't make a fool out of the Pakistani standard of education. Perhaps the biggest folly and the most cruel event was the silly partition itself. :(

Salim#130:

I have frequently noted that the biggest problem in Pakistani economy is a deficiency of savings (which has been compensated by foreign inflows, whether from expatriates or from benefactors from the US or Saudis). This is because most Muslim communities - barring Memons, Khojas, Chiniotis - have a disdain for a savings culture. The big savers in Pakistan were Sikhs and, especially, Hindus; in losing them, Pakistan also lost its saving and enterpreneur class.

Dost Mittar:
Are you an economist or do you just like to blow hot air?

#134, DM Sahib,
What you are alluding to is the capitalist culture of certain areas and people. Among Muslims, the "baniyas" or memons, khojas, and MaRwaaRi elements were always commercially astute. In fact, these are the people who replaced the departing Hindu commercial classs. UP and MP provided the artisans, while Delhi, UP, and some princely states (Bhopal, Hyderabad, Pataudi, Cambay, Rampur) provided some needed administrators and also many military men, especially the Air Force.

Of course the departure of the Sikhs and Hindus from Pakistan was supposed to be Mr. Nehru's trummp card in seeing Pakistan begging to return. The Mohajirs foiled this strategy by filling the void of departing Hindus and Sikhs. Nehru's strategy was just 60 years premature. :(

Re: # 128 Posted by MNIPhirSay on January 1, 2008 7:16:01 pm

[Bubba 118:
You are really full of venom, and nothing else.]

No janab, it is the urdu speaking cult of the MQM who has created hatred and bigotry. Please don't hide behind the big city of Karachi with your nefarious scheme of confusing the whole issue. The mafia dadas of MQM only represent some areas of Karachi which is of course predominantly urdu-speakers. And the PPP wins in predominantly sidhi areas of Lyari, etc. You are correct that in 1977, these hypocrites were supporting JI and it's candidates, and were members of Al-Badar and Al-shams in East Pakistan. Now as a usual mohajir cop out, you might say that they were Jamaati goons.

[Urdu speakers were the last ones to even politically raise the ethnic card. Others did it before the "Mohajirs" did.]

Actually, most people who came to Karachi were all immigrants from somewhere. It started way back in 1829, when the Talpurs lost Sind to the Britishers. But, this word mohajir was never used until the urdu-speakers who came after 1947 started using it. It will be far fetched for a makrani or a christian to call himself a mohajir.

"Once you lose diversity, you become a nation of homogeneous appearance, homogeneous vision, and homogeneous boredom"(salim)

This sentence needs to be shortened:

Once you lose diversity, you become a nation of homogeneous mongoloids.

look at India and look at the miracles its diversity has created.

MNI:

Guilty, as charged. I am an economist by training.

On your other posts, I can only say that you are being emotional and are not reading my post in the right perspective. I never said that Punjabis are not communal - how could I say that when we ethnically cleansed the "other" from our respecive areas? Didn't I say that "we" were equally guilty of inflaming passions when we reached India?

On Sindh, it was not just an isolated incident; there were two factions of Sindhi Muslim leadership in pre-partition Sindh and the one who was murdered for being soft on Hindus was a major contender for the Chief Minister's post (unfortunately, I do not remember his name). And as I mentioned, it was Sindhi Hindus who wanted to kill the greatest Muslim leader of the time.

Yes, I am a Punjabi chauvinist but I also love Urdu and Urdu speakers.

Very interesting thread..

As an unbiased observer, a Tamil from India I can see the 'truths' in different and sometimes opposing viewpoints.

It's painful for a 'native' to see his/her land overtaken by 'foreigners' who then go on to impose their religion/language and then enjoy the power derived from 'religion' and/or 'language'.

I believe that's the scenario getting played out in Sindh.

Bubba:
Whenever I see "Mohajir" and MQM used interchangeably, I smell the foul, rancid stink of a bigot. Baaqi sab is bakvaas. Your point that Mohajirs are the first to kill in the name of ethnicity is utter BS. That's all I had to show.

It sounds like the word "Mohajir" irritates the living daylights out of you. Fine. Let's use "Gattarpanchoo"; or does this also have some religious connotation?

One way to avoid such tensions is to follow the Indian model of 'lingusitic states' where speakers of a particular language dominate the state. When I say dominate that implies complete domination. (i.e) they dictate the rules of the culture/politics/entertainment in their region.

But that is difficult in the case of Pakistan with Urdu speaking Mohajirs lacking any land to call as their own.

One of my best friends in medical school was a Sindhi Hindu whose family had migrated to Patna leaving all their belongings in Karachi -- with not an iota of communal hatred or complaints about his ordeals to me.

He was such a gentle soul so different from all other communities -- I spent one summer vacation with his vegetarian family. I still remember the home cooked Sindhi daal -- no one makes daal like the Sindhis -- I never missed meat at his house. A truly homeless community -- a Sindhi without Sindh -- how tragic.

Bubba:
Makrani and Baluch in Karachi are called Makrani and Baluch and Sindhi, Punjabi, pathan and Mohajir, the same way.
It is more to differentiate than anyother reason.
The analysis done by Laurent gayer is not far from truth
"The Mohajir support to the religious parties {.sic National parties} was not a manifestation of their fundamentalism for these refugees and their siblings, it was an attempt to join the Pakistan mainstream, as Muslims and not as "refugees". Since they could not rely on an ethnic identity of their own, as the Sindhis, Punjabis, Baluch and the Pathans, the muhajirin could only rely on the larger Muslim political identity derived from Jinnah's two nation theory. On the contrary, the muhajirin were urban dwellers prone to cultural liberalism and a great deal of them were at odds with the religious parties' ideology.