This Pyre Will Burn…!

HP: What are the socio-economic structures of Sindhi nationalism? Who are the leaders and organizations? What is MQM's relations to these things? If you are a thoughtful analyst you should put these forward. You should do the same for Balochi nationalism. Make it good.

#15 Posted by quin

“Tariq Ali's glimmer of hope that PPP might reorganize on new lines is already dashed.”

The PPP is what it is. It is not going to reorganize on any new lines. Political parties like the PPP change based on how militant the workers get. The PPP worker pretty much forced Benazir to run away from Musharaf even though she had come to the country with high hopes of working with Musharaf.

She had lost any hope of reconciliation on arrival in Karachi. I don’t know the timing of her email to Mark Siegel but that surely suggests that she was getting ready to take on Musharaf contrary what the US was thinking.

Otoh, she was a classical example of political double dealing. She knew she would not be able to work with Musharaf but she still took the deal hoping to renege on it at the right time. Musharaf too had the same thing in mind.

When it became apparent that the US brokered deal would not help the WOT she was toast. Think about the WOT as one way of the army enterprise or the Military Inc. in Pakistan making money. The US continues the WOT and its minions make money. BB was going to take an active role in WoT. I don’t know what was promised to her.

Tariq Ali is not consistent in his writings. I guess when writing for newspapers, magazines and the Net becomes someone’s bread and butter, that person would tend to write for an audience.

“What is relevant is to recognize how vicious, wicked and ruthless the enemies of people are and how fixedly they are determined to destroy any possibility of growth of even a semblance of progress.”

This is apt. I think you need to think in terms of not people but the powerful groups in Pakistan. Right now no one is worried about the People. The issue clearly is who makes more money out of the WOT. Just the army or will it share it with some influential civilians such as ….. you fill in the blanks.

“Her murder closes a chapter in the history of Pakistan and opens a new possibly bloodier and more tragic phase.”

Pakistani game or shall I say the army game always was to take advantage of its geographical and strategically position. Apparently, now they are caught up in this game and cannot get out of this. Meaning the people of Pakistan would pay a heavy price of what is happening out there.

“There is something rotten in the state of Pakistan, the only other country in the world created based on principles of religious faith in contrast to British Imperialists’ own proclaimed beliefs in the principles of theory of nationhood.”

There is never anything rotten in any State. It is all about which groups control the State. If there is no proper system of rotation, the groups try and hang on to the privileges by all means.
Yours is an interesting post. It is New Years Eve and I got hit the party circle. If I am okay in the morning, I will write more about your post.

#17 Posted by Matrix

I would love to respond to your post. But not now. I got to run my wife is already screaming!

#16 Posted by HP,

Hmmm... Can afford it! We still don't have 700 mil squatters.

LoL. Just for this HP Saeen, sab kaha suna muaaf!

Pakistan will come out of this with flying colours, I have no doubt, just as it came out of so many other tumultuous setbacks.

HP, I'm surprised, this is actually an informative article. Can you tell me, did Benazir herself actually speak any Sindhi or any other local languages other than Urdu?
But cheer up, Pakistan will make it.

700 million squatters, does that mean only 400 million Indians are there legitimately?
puzzled smiley

#21 Posted by nb,

nb, no. Benazir didn't know a word of Sindhi.

I saw the Zardari press conference. Do see it on pkpolitics.com and have to admit was very impressed. He said that people who say Punjabi na Khapey, Pakistan na Khapey are all wrong. He said that the 20 people who died with Benazir were all Punjabis, who had volunteered to be her guards, and had jumped at the first gunshot and surrounded her vehicle to protect her, and were blown apart. He said that all those people became his friends during his eight years in jail, and not during when he was in power. They didn't want anything from him, and did it for a Sindhi family ... Bhutto.

He was right. Benazir herself had said in many interviews that Punjab WAS itself the federation of Pakistan. It was the only people who were not ethnically oriented sub-nationalists.

After that press conference, I believe naming of Bilawal is the correct move, because he was tutored by his mother, in the mould of his grandfather, who were both great icons of politics of federation.

Makhdoom Amin Fahim was visibly peeved, but he will be consoled since he is given the Prime Ministerial candidacy. However, Amin Fahim is a Sindhi nationalist with little credibility outside Sindh, and that wouldn't have been good for the party or Pakistan.

Just as it became clear in 1965, that Pak Army was more interested in gaining Kashmir than losing Bengal, you can today see that since 1979, Pak Army has been more interested in gaining Afghanistan than losing Sindh. Life is a question of making choices, peepul, choices and Pak Army is making them for you. Who else will do it if not them? Bhago hindoo aaya.

HP Sahib,
Thank you for presenting the aboriginal view of what happened to Sindh. :) I hate to be disrespectful but your information is presented in a very one-sided manner and full of unsubstantiated and malicious allegations. If arriving immigrants were the ones who displaced the Hindus, don't you think that they would have taken over the vast lands and become Vaderas themselves? After all, many of the arriving Mohajirs were themselves zamindars in India.

Anyway, the destruction wrought upon Pakistan by PPP and its supporters has been quite catastrophic. If I were Mushy, I would round up all the PPP leaders and put them in jail until they reimburse all the victims for their substantial losses. The PPP will go down in Paki history as the most criminal and destructive disaster to hit our poor country.

Re: # 23 zee
[..Benazir didn't know a word of Sindhi...]

Then what the heck is this fool HP blabbering about... this guy is a empty vessel loud mouth or what?

HP and Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi,

Both of you are going around posting vicious and malicious disinformation accusing Mohajirs of killing and driving out Hindus from Sindh.

From the Bina Shah article, I am posting Tigram's comment about the events of '47 - Tigram's background is that of a Baluchi Hindu and I appreciate his decency in speaking the truth:

{"{"#15 Posted by Tigram on December 30, 2007 9:11:05 pm
Re: # 14 i think you have a point .Compare Punjab in 1947 with Sindh.The Punjabis on both sides Indian and Pakistan made sure that all Hindus or Muslims or Sikhs were killed down to not yet born babies while Sindh was peaceful.Very few Hindus migrated from Sindh."}

Tigram friend,
Will you please let Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi know about this? He is going around posting disinformation that immigrants from India arrived in Sindh to loot and kill Hindus in Sindh. Thank you for stating that you are a Baluchi Hindu - I am pleased to learn about your background and thankful that not everything is lost in Pakistan. I feel that the departure of Hindus was the main tragic catalyst that removed our diversity and made us all look alike and at each other's throats."}

HP,
I remember women of my extended family in Karachi always interested in teaching Sindhi girls and boys of their servants how to read and write. This was done in spite of the parents, especially the men. They felt that teaching girls to read and write would make it hard for them to get married. :(
If Mohajirs really hated Sindhis, then these Mohajir women would never force education on their Muslim sisters. I am sure that the Mojo women had better things to do - beauty salons, bridge games, or their favorite pastime - gossip.

Why do I want to say that the real enemies of the Sindhis were and are their own cruel exploiters - the Sindhi Vaderas?

HP sain,

You have captured the Sindhi grievances very well but regardless of how aggrieved they are they will never be able to get rid of Pakistan unless like the Bengalis a neighbour (India) steps. But given the nuke situation, it is unlikely.

However, your opening line was amazing. Like a fast bowler opening the bowling with a googly (although I understand a certain Keith Miller often began with one)

(The people who killed Benazir have perhaps killed Pakistan too)

We have heard this before: Indira is India, India is Indira. The truth is that India with its myriad problems is a far stronger country than it was on Oct 30, 1984 ie the day before she was bumped off.

HP sain, we expect the chowk's best intellectuals to not stoop themselves to the levels of Dev Kant Barooahs!!!

Regards

#29 Posted by majumdar,

Thanks for saying that.

Thanks HP for your important article as you have broken the silence of existing resentment of Sindhi Nation in existing federation.Sindh houses two nationalities in large arid area devoid of water except Sindhu river mainly. Two nations in two different social , economic stagees and going along tensely.
You have correctly said the loss of middle class of Sindh and self inflicted wounds by Sindhi leadership and for not having ability to what they are doing. GM sayed was first proponent of Pakistan and passed resolution. One should ask carefully as some time you get what you want and hurt yourself.Karachi itself was almost 50% hindu and last mayor was hindu. This cleansing was done and then replaced by Hindustani Muslims who had no interest in sindhis or culture or ethos of sindh.Things which are not moral are not natural are not good for society they willingly welcomed gutting the intelligence class.( Incidently Sindhi Chief Minister understood this loss of educated at that time and he went out in Karachi with Pistul in hand to protect frightened hindus and stalling departure but he was fired by QAMA Jinnah).Printing presses , newspapers, book publishers, schools were mainly managed by these people and Sindhis did nothing to make them secure. They were complicit in crime of removing millions of people by fanatics. Then it exactly happened like nazi germany , educated jews left for usa, uk and in long term german people suffered as intelluctiuals help and give courage to society to protect culture and they have intelligence to comprehend the things changing ang they have brains and wrists to resist physical and social aggression. As hindus left grid , jalousy and envy of centuries blinded them. It was easy way to not pay for Sheths for debts.History and time is never kind with people who make strategic mistakes. What left in Sindh was just basic extremely backward agricultural system fortified by harsh Feudal ethos where ideas of justice , liberty, equality and fair play does not exist. This slave landless people can not produce great wealth as backwardness pervades in every aspect of life. Harsh conditins and minimal agricultural outputs make life miserable. Sindhis made cardinal mistake of expelling educated class and became headless society of peasants and landlords , nature punished them naturally.
On this scene Hindustani muslims arrive in great numbers and displace locals , there is unity of new arrivals and drive of any new tribe arriving and conquring and dominating and they just replaced educated hindus with educated and determined to establis in new lands and master it. It was first time people from south moved north tp displace natives. Within short span Karachi was gone, then hyderbad and slowly one after another sindhi towns felled and replaced by Hindustani Muslims.
The Sindhis suffered extremely in every way but one can put plabe on Hindustani Muslims as they were welcomed in theory and they have leadership of movement. Hindustani muslims were victorious as sindhis just moved without any resitance. The sindhi leadership of landlord feduals were not wise to even understand what is happening. The Hindustani muslims established facts on ground they were the masters of new lands. They were better at politics as their leadership clealy understood politics as concentrated economics. The sindhi defeat was so fast and bad it is said or rumored L.A.Khan said what is Sindhi culture, driving camels and donkeys. This may not be true but Sindhis were so lowly considered by Hindustani muslims.
So sindh ( native sindhis) has suffered most after partition and will suffer as they made mistakes of not understanding.

It is not clear from article what this sindhi national aspirations want to day. What are goals and if so the ways to achieve it. Baloach leadership like Attaullah Mengal etc have well articulation of objectives , never head so clear articulation from even strong sindhi nationalist like Dr Magsi. Sindhi leadership does not know what they want exactly , how they want to react with urban dominant hindustani muslims of Karachi, hyderbad... Do they want seperate sindhi province devoid of urban areas ?
Sindhi nationalist will be always handicapped as till bhuttos dominate, they look at federal domination, they have no interest in poor landless sindhis, they just want poors as ladder to go to I-Bad they have interest of people who support them. Average sindhi is agonised what has happened to them but they have no leader to articulate their pain. Bhuttos in means nationalists out. It may take several decades for bottom sufferesto organise for rights ( first they have to come out of helplessness and overcome feudal overlords ), Then they will be unstoppable if they want little enclave or what they want. Sindhis are supporting Bhuttos and getting nothing in returns and glorify in their achievements but they have got nothing. Bhuttos are not with vision of Gandhi or Ho ChiMinh or mandela so without leader of vision sindhi masses will suffer as they are doing for centuries.
Moral Sindhi pain is do not make blunders and strategic mistakes they kill you.
Good afternoon

Ahmedmadani sahib,

Re: #31

As usual you have hit the bull's eye with your simple, uncomplicated and say it "as it is' style.

Regards