Making a Mockery of Democracy

Poor Masadi... still trying to deny the obvious. I can't help a freak like him.

While I understand your pain, perhaps this will enlighten you on the REAL ROOTS of our troubles.

Love and peace.

Imran

Brig Tariq Jilani
Director, ISPR
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Fax +9251 9271603

Subject: Telecon / Meeting with General [R] Pervez Musharaf

Dear Brig Jilani

You and the ISPR are well aware of my efforts to save and grow Pakistan vide seminars held for MNAs and politicians in 2006 and publicly available online at www.ahappyworld.info

Background
My efforts to stop smuggling of cell phones in Pakistan have yielded the country USD 1 bn vide CBRs SRO 391 in June 2001 supported by Mr Shaukat Aziz (who happens to be from the same IBA that taught me one thing “DISCIPLINE”), Dr Atta Ur Rehman, General [R] Khalid Basheer and the former Chairmen of CBR, Mr Riaz Malik and Mr Riaz Naqvi. I never asked the Government for even an acknowledgment of my efforts, while it is true that my focus on “governmental” affairs from 1999-2001 did cost me my job as my boss gave a damn to what the Government of Pakistan gained, he didn’t gain much during this time anyway, I survived and am Alhamdolillah, after 7 years back to the level I deserved as Regional Director for a European multinational covering 20 countries in GCC/MENA. All this time I silently continued my efforts to change the country’s policies to enhance foreign investments and law and order.

Past communication with the President (General Musharaf)
Back in June 2001 I wrote a letter to General Musharaf, then CE of Pakistan. To my surprise not only was my communication acknowledged I was invited by a Colonel Kamran Dy MS to CE to visit the “CE” house, now the President house, behind the Secretariat, where we had an in depth discussion. The core idea I proposed was to involve the Army in re establishing law and order in Pakistan besides many other ideas that are on record at the President House. Col Kamran informed me that this idea was discussed by the Core Commanders and in view of foreign pressure (remember this is pre 9/11) we couldn’t do that, moreover the Army’s role is limited to:

1. Give an “injection” to civil institutions
2. Exit once they are “fixed”

I disagreed with Col Kamran on this strategy and openly told him that not only is this incorrect, it will never happen, and when your core commanders DO realize this is wrong CHANGE the strategy. I WISH I was wrong then though time has proved me right.

Current Situation

Law and order
7 years down the road, corruption is rampant in Pakistan-the law and order system is NON EXISTENT, the Judges we have, never gave justice to the poor, the police is an exploited arm of the politicians and administration. Bottom line our PRESIDENT himself does NOT trust this system, hence his demolition of the judiciary, Benazir died due this gap, the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE FED UP WITH THIS LAWLESS STATE THAT YOU CALL “PAKISTAN” they are dying or moving out of the country, they face inflation beyond logic and have to fight to survive at all levels. YET I SALUTE PAKISTANIS living in Pakistan for their persistence.

Foreign relations/Media
From Tasleema Naseem, Brig Cheema and so many other jokers who played havoc with our image, not to mention the obvious: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DEAD AGAINST GENERAL MUSHARAF for their reasons (watch Syriana and JFK to get a better idea strategic and tactical actions in the region and priorities) – the recent press conference Gen Musharaf had, was he not able to grasp the animosity and bitterness in the questions? Who was funding GEO? Or the others, one must be stupid with a capital “S” to say “PPP or Nawaz” – there’s a lot more, and deeper into it as described above. Moreover, the TERRORISM card has been way too overplayed by Gen Musharaf and foreign powers have NO FAITH IN HIS ABILITY TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. In my view they are partly correct in this regard as I will explain in the “WHAT MUST BE DONE” section later

STATUS QUO: What is going to happen STEP BY STEP
1. IF General Musharaf survives assassination, he is 95% sure, by my book, to be deposed as President in a timeframe of within 180 days from now.
2. Interim government will hold polls in 90 days. Nawaz Sharif will be allowed to contest.
3. Elected “LOOTERS” from any party will take office, PPP or PML (N)
4. Phase “x” of corruption, lawlessness and malpractices will re-start in Pakistan, that was “controlled” to some extent in Musharaf era
5. The country will slide to oblivion
6. NO OTHER ARMY GENERAL WILL HAVE THE GUTS TO ENTER POLITICS ONCE MUSHARAF EXITS BY FORCE OR BY CHOICE.
7. The fate of the people of Pakistan (except “party” workers) will be sealed: SIMPLE, LEAVE PAKISTAN IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE

WHAT MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY BY GENERAL MUSHARAF

Put law and order on track
1. Realize and accept that the Army has TWO ROLES:
a. External defense: that you already excel in
b. Internal defense: that is currently with the “police” and “judiciary”
i. As the QURAN says Al RASHI WAL MURTASHI FI NARE JAHANAM i.e. Bribe giver and taker goes to HELL. YOU CANNOT CHANGE OR REFORM THEM (your judges and policemen). PERIOD. You triple their salaries they will STILL be corrupt and abuse powers.
ii. We need a SHORT TERM ALTERNATE SYSTEM during which time we refresh the force and judiciary
iii. This task can ONLY be done by either enforcing APC (Army Penal Code) via serving or RETIRED army personnel
iv. The benefits are obvious, the ARMY is the ONLY institution in the country which follows its CHAIN OF COMMAND DITTO, and there is LEAST corruption in the army compared to the rest (excluding supplies and all, that too at senior levels)
v. Look at the retired sepoys from the Army, they work as private sector SECURITY GUARDS for Rs 3200 per month WITHOUT CORRUPTION, their tummies are intact, they come to duty in ironed uniform ON TIME, they do NOT abuse authority, they FOLLOW their management.
vi. Reality is 80% of EX ARMY PERSONNEL ARE MIS FITS IN PAKISTAN, they don’t belong in this corrupt environment from the disciplined environment they came from. LET THEM ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER IN THE SHORT RUN LATER RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM CIVIL LIFE ON THE SAME PATTERN AS ARMY DOES
vii. Get army judges, QUICKLY modify APC to adjust to LAW NEEDS OF TODAY, REMEMBER our lawyers and judges are following antiquated systems and processes that the BRITISH used to RULE OVER SLAVES (Contract Act of 1872 and Companies Ordinance of 1935 renamed o 1984). Our intellectual think tanks can study models of excellence in Dubai and elsewhere and change laws to deliver SPEEDY JUSTICE
viii. Free the innocent inmates in jail cells, picked up for personal animosity or plainly a woman raped and held for Hudood! Raped further by policemen, poor serfs of landlords and mafia rotting away for no crime, even CHILDREN!
ix. DIVIDE ARMY INTO TWO PARTS, EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL, both report to COAS as of now.
x. General Musharaf: YOU CANNOT SHOW YOUR FACE IN THE OTHER WORLD IF YOU DENY YOUR PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED YOU FOR 9 YEARS NOT EVEN THE BASIC RIGHT OF LAW AND JUSTICE AS OUTLINED ABOVE

Put “Extremism” back on track

I do NOT blame the “WEST” Uncle “Bush” and Uncle “Brown/Blair” for their mistaken policies to handle terrorism, they DON’T UNDERSTAND ISLAM or how this WAR is working internally, YOU DO AT LEAST, why don’t you educate them that:
1. This is an IDEOLOGICAL war waged on the free world by Al Qaeda etc you CANNOT defeat it with cannons, for every 1 person you shoot, 10 more will be born, and INCREASINGLY from the educated class, not just the “Taliban”. CASE IN POINT, London bombing was done by INDIAN DOCTORS that UK cannot reconcile with until now (how come people born and bred and working in UK became “terrorists”?).
2. TO FIGHT THIS WAR, download and read my action plan on www.ahappyworld.info
3. Simply stated:
a. WE MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP THE FIGHT BY FORCE
b. We must get IMAM E KAABA and relevant religious icons to VISIT these areas and go live on air spreading REAL message of Islam of love and peace, General Musharaf doing it is not credible or enough we need role models these people believe in
c. Tell America and Europe straight “WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR ON IDEOLOGY OF MISUNDERSTOOD ISLAM, IT CANNOT BE FOUGHT OR WON BY FORCE AS OF RIGHT NOW” at they same time tell the Western media to START HIGHLIGHTING GOOD THINGS AND PRACTICES IN ISLAM that will soothe the pain on BOTH sides.
4. General Musharaf: You need to get HANDS ON to solve these problems, saying “GOVT IS DOING THIS AND THAT FOR A REASON” WITHOUT GOING INTO DEPTH AND SOLVING IT (like you told foreign journalists when they asked why they cant go to rural areas AFTER you INSTRUCTED them to “GO TO RURAL AREAS TO FIND WHAT PAKISTANIS THINK”, Sir! YOU MUST INVOLVE YOURSELF IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEYOND THE OBVIOUS.
5. Islam’s message is of peace and love, OPEN PAKISTAN’S BORDERS to EVERYONE, just charge a HEFTY VISA FEE
a. USD 1000 to visit Pakistan
b. USD 50000 to become a permanent resident of Pakistan
6. ACCEPT ISRAEL, all the Muslim TALK Pakistanis talk about is CRAP. Give visas to Jews and Christians. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT INTERNAL TERRORISM tell your people loud and clear that Islam propagates the message of love, we are LUCKY to be born Muslims hence our SYMPATHIES with NON MUSLIMS who DON’T KNOW THE REAL MESSAGE and through our CONDUCT, LOVE and GOOD BEHAVIOUR alone can we influence them.

I hope to have an audience with the President on phone or in person to apprise him of the situation and the actions he must take immediately.

Pakistan Zindabad!

Regards


Imran Owais Kazmi
Chief Thinking Officer, Strategy2Action

GSM: +971 50 5849562/ +971 55 8094119
www.crscube.com
www.ahappyworld.info

RAS quotes "We know its not Taliban or their mutants..."

The Taliban are piss poor shots, they couldn't hit her no matter how hard they tried.

Ras #113,
I am going to sue you for being monotonous, boring, and annyoing. :) Stop this pollution, please!

"We, the people, instinctively know the insidious and shadowy killers of Benazir Bhutto. We can sense them.
We know its not Taliban or their mutants. They are far more sinister. We have seen them attack us before,
by attacking those we have raised to pitch battles against them. But we don't know yet how to name them."

Nafisa Shah in The News at:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89612

As if copy-paste is a "technology" that only freaks like him are allowed to use...

Since Manto is spamming three threads with similar BS about me, let me copy paste what I wrote on the other thread here, unlike Manto who can hardly write a miserable sentence after he copy pastes ten pages of BS.

In # 367 read

Now, you all think that Manto doesn't know this. He does because I have on atleast three seperate occassions elaborated on this quote by the ZAB and how he evolved and did not, towards the end of his life have any doubts that this whole experiment by the MAJ, working as a peon for the feudals/colonials, was the absolute right thing

as:



Now, you all think that Manto doesn't know this. He does because I have on atleast three seperate occassions elaborated on this quote by the ZAB and how he evolved and towards the end of his life, did not have any doubts that this whole experiment by the MAJ, working as a peon for the feudals/colonials, might not have been the absolute right thing, in other words it could have been a mistake whose victim he was going to become.
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#367 Posted by masadi on January 4, 2008 4:51:38 pm
Manto writes "In retrospect... the worst thing Jinnah did was to create opportunities for people like Masadi. It is anybody's guess what sewer Masadi would be in if it hadn't been for Pakistan. "

Jinnah didn't create any opportunity for me, the "opportunities" were created by my relatively well to do great grandparents who became less well to do in the same area (that was called Pakistan later, than they were before. You don't know shit about me so better keep your goddamned mouth shut. I don't belong to a family of petty bourgeoisie like you do that I need MAJ creating "opportunities" for me even as he slaughters millions



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#366 Posted by masadi on January 4, 2008 4:28:31 pm
Manto writes " ...Time Magazine..."

That my friends (and enemies) is the sum total of his intelligence, to copy paste from websites, from magazines and some obscure books written by orientalists and other "experts". Regarding using well known facts (which no one not even the orientalists dispute) and his sense of reason, the guy (or "freak" ) is totally disabled.

He writes "To quote (Ghulam Ahmed Parwez's) Tolu-e-Islam's website (Bhutto could have been addressing freaks like Masadi):

On December 21, 1976, the then Prime Minister of Pakistan, late Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto addressed a joint session of the National Assembly and Senate of the federation held to commemorate the centenary of birth of Quaid-e-Azam. Addressing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait hanging on the wall, he said in a most dramatic fashion: -

"Quaid-eAzam!"

We discussed at length, (over two and a half threads worth) the ZAB and MAJ issues, but like a dishonest "freak", Manto deliberately keeps repeating his falsehoods regarding the ZAB to make unjustified claims and to fool those that have not followed the debate, and he does it in a most deceptive manner at the very end (fine print) of pages and pages worth of worthless copy pastes.

Now, this claim about the ZAB being the "founder" of the Church of MAJ is total horse sh**. ZAB the politician evolved in his time in office. At the time he wrote "Myth of Independance" (which I have read), he was trying to justify the shenanigans of the MAJ (regarding Pakistan) in the context of imperial "divide and rule", which he claimed evolved into "unite and rule" as spheres of influence developed (viz a viz the US and the Soviet block). In doing so he badly tripped himself not realizing that the creation of Pakistan itslef was the first step in this "unite and rule" thing that he was trying to rail against. Now, Manto accuses the man of being a manipulator and fooling the people of Pakistan to get power. Now that claim might hold some water when the man was on the rise and reaching the zenith of his career but it certainly cannot define this words written from the death cell in a letter to his daughter in which he opens up the possibility that what the MAJ did was a "mistake" and future events would either prove or disprove that (and they sure as hell have proven it).

Now, you all think that Manto doesn't know this. He does because I have on atleast three seperate occassions elaborated on this quote by the ZAB and how he evolved and did not, towards the end of his life have any doubts that this whole experiment by the MAJ, working as a peon for the feudals/colonials, was the absolute right thing as Manto religiously believes in it to be.

Now, he cannot answer me or counter my claims, all he can do is repeat his BS about me not having read his orientalist masters- who know shit about Pakistan by the way, and other tabulators whose work he spits out in news caster prompter style, calling that "intelligence" or literary work. The guy is a sorry excuse for a human being. He did not even refrain from using his father's death to score points against me and baselessly rail against my sincere condolences. Now he calls me a "freak" and gets away with it, watch how fast the chowk staff ban me because I called this sob a "freak" as well....

To repeat some facts:

It was Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who manipulated religion for political ends and destroyed the unity that Jinnah had worked so hard to create. People like Tvarad are too biased to accept a fact of history. Jinnah was the only politician in the history of the subcontinent to be called the best ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity.

It was the devious alliance between Caste Hindu fascist leaders like Gandhi and their side kick the Muslim Clergy that forced Jinnah to fight for and win Pakistan. Congress' inability to accept rational and secular leaders like Jinnah as the true representatives of Muslims and Congress' reliance on freaks and Mullahs instead led to the creation of Pakistan.

And ofcourse... while the clergy wanted to keep the Muslims backwards (and thus play into the Gandhian idea of India), Jinnah and the Muslims who followed him had asked for political and economic safeguards... something patently unacceptable to Gandhi and the Congress... Muslims like Jinnah daring to speak for them ... oh my God.
there is a much greater link of Gandhi to Moplahs and indeed Jamia Hafsa ... than the two nation theory that Jayp wants to malign and has even taken to inventing quotes... you know could care less to bring them together but if someone can so illogically argue and try to link the Islamo-fascist tendencies in a small minority of Muslims to our legtimate stance for Pakistan... then one should point out the obvious links between Gandhi and true Islamic fundamentalist and terrorist movements of South Asia... I do not wish to dwell Gandhi honestly but if this line of argument is taken... should I not point out the facts?


Achyuth Patwardhan, one of the Socialist stalwarts in the Congress, has given a remarkably candid and self critical analysis of the Congress Party vis-a-vis Khilafat: ’It is, however, useful to recognise our share of this error of misdirection. To begin with, I am convinced that looking back upon the course of development of the freedom movement, THE ’HIMALAYAN ERROR’ of Gandhiji’s leadership was the support he extended on behalf of the Congress and the Indian people to the Khilafat Movement at the end of the World War I. This has proved to be a disastrous error which has brought in its wake a series of harmful consequences. On merits, it was a thoroughly reactionary step. The Khilafat was totally unworthy of support of the Progressive Muslims. Kemel Pasha established this solid fact by abolition of the Khilafat. The abolition of the Khilafat was widely welcomed by enlightened Muslim opinion the world over and Kemel was an undoubted hero of all young Muslims straining against Imperialist domination. But apart from the fact that Khilafat was an unworthy reactionary cause, Mahatma Gandhi had to align himself with a sectarian revivalist Muslim Leadership of clerics and maulvis. He was thus unwittingly responsible for jettisoning sane, secular, modernist leadership among the Muslims of India and foisting upon the Indian Muslims a theocratic orthodoxy of the Maulvis. Maulana Mohammed Ali’s speeches read today appear strangely incoherent and out of tune with the spirit of secular political freedom. The Congress Movement which released the forces of religious liberalism and reform among the Hindus, and evoked a rational scientific outlook, placed the Muslims of India under the spell of orthodoxy and religious superstition by their support to the Khilafat leadership. Rationalist leaders like Jinnah were rebuffed by this attitude of Congress and Gandhi. This is the background of the psychological rift between Congress and the Muslim League’.


and

’Since the Khilafat agitation, things have changed and it has been one of the many injuries inflicted on India by the encouragement of the Khilafat crusade, that the inner Muslim feeling of hatred against ’unbelievers’ has sprung up, naked and unashamed, as in years gone by’.

and

A terrible and gruesome fallout of the disastrous Khilafat experiment of Mahatma Gandhi was the Moplah Rebellion in Malabar District in 1921. According to the Report of the ENQUIRY COMMITTEE OF SERVANTS OF INDIA SOCIETY, the number of Hindus murdered by Moplah Muslims was 1500, the number of Hindus forcibly converted 20,000 and the value of property looted about Rs three crore. When the national and local leaders appealed to the virulently anti-Hindu Moplah Muslims in the name of Mahatma Gandhi to follow the ways of peace and non-violence, they replied bluntly with Islamic fervour: ’GANDHI IS A KAFIR, HOW CAN HE BE OUR LEADER?’ Dr Anne Besant declared: ’The Moplah Muslim marauders murdered and plundered abundantly, killed or drove away all Hindus who would not apostatize. Somewhere about 100,000 people were driven from their homes with nothing but the clothes they had on, stripped of everything’. She also accused all the Khilafat religious preachers for all this terrible atrocities. J Campbell, chief of the Intelligence Department, Government of India, held the Khilafat leaders squarely responsible for inciting racial hatred resulting in Moplah carnage.

http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06aug/2208ss1.htm

Mahatma Gandhi’s attempt to harness the feeling for the cause of national independence backfired and led to the uprising in Kerala known as the Moplah Rebellion. It took the British several months to put it down at the cost of thousands of lives.



Moplahs were very much part of the grand Khilafat Movement that Gandhi was spearheading and Gandhi kept apologising for them


The Dravidian Moplahs had directed their revolt with class venom against some Aryan high-caste Hindus with property as well as Britishers: Brahmanical elements tried to use that to spark a crisis in Hindu-Muslim relations all over India. Gandhi tried to hold a balance: like the U.S. press and the Negro nationalists who read it he stressed that the Moplah uprising could be made part of a united drive for independence by Indians of all sects.But he was also aware of the pan-Islamic dimension: in a December 1921 call to the British to suspend their attacks against the Moplahs, he was to observe that the Moplahs saw themselves as fighting for a religion with methods they considered religious: Yogesh Chadha, Rediscovering Gandhi (London: Century 1997) p. 254.


And lets not forget the Tehreek-e-Hijrat Fatwa that Gandhi’s right hand man Azad gave to Muslims which gave Muslims two options "JEHAD" or "HIJRAT".

The Muslim Ulema, thinkers and activists called for the boycott of foreign goods and non-cooperation with the British government. Meetings were organised in order to rally the masses to support these issues. The meetings were organised under the banner of Mo’tamar al-Ansar (The Workers Conference) and various newspapers such as Al-Hilal of Maualana Abul Kalam Azad and The Comrade of Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar. Both Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad and Maulana Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar were put behind bars for publishing anti-British articles in their newspapers. The latter spent four years in prison between 1911 and 1915CE.


The allegiance of the Muslim intelligentsia of India at that to the Khilafah is unquestionable. Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad summed up their view when he wrote in his newspaper al-Hilal on 6th November 1912 that the Ottoman Sultans possessed the only sword which Muslims had for their protection. Insofar as the “caliphate was essentially a religious integration of the shari’a”, it became “necessary by revelation, is of God’s institution and that obedience to its authority is farz, or positively commanded”.


The Khilafat Movement


In September 1919, Maulana Muhammad Ali and his brother Shaukat Ali, together with Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, Dr. Mukhtar Ahmed Ansari, and Hasrat Mohani, started a new organization, the Khilafat Movement (1919-1924). Their avowed aim was to use whatever leverage they had to protect the Khilafah. They organized Khilafat Conferences in several northern Indian cities. It is noticeable that the scholars and activists that were part of the Khilafat movement came from different schools of thought and backgrounds, for example Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was known to be a ‘ghayr taqleedi’ (non-taqleedi – who believed Taqleed to Mazahib is prohibited) and Maulana Mahmood Hasan was Deobandi who are followers of the Hanafi Mazhab yet they were united in the objective of working for the maintenance of the Khilafah.


In 1919, the Bombay Khilafat Committee agreed on two important organisational goals: “first, to urge the retention of the temporal powers of the Sultan of Turkey as Caliph, and second to ensure his continued suzerainty over the Islamic holy places.”

Delivering the presidential address at the Calcutta meeting of the Bengal Provincial Khilafat Conference in 1920, Maulana Azad discussed the importance of Khilafah he declared, “the purpose of this institution was to organise and lead the Muslim community in the right path, to establish justice, to bring about peace, and to spread God’s word in the world. For all this it was absolutely necessary for the caliph to possess temporal power”. Maulana Azad had no doubt that “without an Imam, their lives were un-Islamic and that they would be damned after death”.


Maulana Azad published a book in 1920 called Masla-e-Khilafat (The Issue of Khilafah), he stated: “Without the Khilafah the existence of Islam is not possible, the Muslims of India with all their effort and power need to work for this”.

In the same book page 176 Maulana Azad said, “There are two types of ahkam shariah, the first is related to the individual like the commands and prohibitions, the fara’id (obligations) and wajibat in order to perfect oneself. The second is not related to the individual but is related to the Ummah, nation, collective obligations and state politics like the conquering of lands, political and economic laws”.

According to Peter Hardy, Maulana Azad believed that, “The Muslim who would separate religion and politics for Muslims is an apostate who works silently”.


The loss of political power in India and the threat posed by a combination of forces to the temporal authority of the caliph, was so worrisome for the leaders of the Muslim community that some of them felt compelled to issue fatwas ‘in favour of migration (hijra)’ from India.


Maulana Abul Kalam Azad issued a fatwa which was published in the daily Ahl-e-Hadith of Amritsar on 30 July 1920. In his fatwa he urged Hijrat from India as an alternative to non-cooperation with the British. (YLH’s note: Was the Hijaz Born Azad a "Wahabi"... note "Ahle-Hadith)

Maulana Abdul Bari’s fatwa said, “every Muslim residing here should adopt non-cooperation but if (that is) impossible, should proceed for hijrat”. Maulana Shaukat Ali issued a statement on behalf of the Central Khilafat Committee, “expressing the hope that all dedicated Muslims would stay in India and work for the non-cooperation. Only if it did not succeed would they consider resorting to hijrat”. The impact of the fatwa was electrifying and thousands of Muslims preferred to leave the Dar al harb of India where their religious rights symbolized in the position of the Turkish Caliph was being infringed.


And most amazing was the fact that Gandhi’s encouragement led to Deobandi ulema creating the Jamiat ulema Hind ... which in its numerous forms and heads plagues South Asia even today... and all these groups are spin offs of the same.


As for Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.... whether the Masadi likes it or not... ZAB was Jinnah's greatest fan though he managed to singlehandedly dent Jinnah's legacy by allowing the Ahmadis to be declared non-Muslims. But still it was Bhutto who gave Pakistan the Quaid-e-Azam Academy and the Jinnah propagation project.


Poor Masadi lies day in day out but Zulfikar Ali Bhutto wrote from his death cell :

"With the exception of your father, the Quaid-e-Azam and perhaps Suhrawardy either charlatans or captains have run this country. Perhaps things will change with a struggle spearheaded by the militant youth. If things do not change, there will be nothing left to change. Either power must pass to the people or everything will perish."

Masadi is a classic case of someone who doesn't bother to actually read something but resorts to second guessing and third rate patch work. Hardly the academic.

The poor guy probably hasn't read a single one of ZAB's books... certainly not "Myth of Independence". Had he actually read the book, he would have come across the chapter where ZAB quotes Beverley Nichols' famous "Interview with a Giant"... Suffice to say it is a slap on the face of Masadi and his abuse directed as Jinnah by none other than Masadi's own idol of worship the Raja of Larkana.

It is the finest defence of Jinnah, by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. Whatever his faults, and ZAB was after all a Wadera above all else so there were many many many least of all his absolute contempt for people... but no one can fault Bhutto for his honest devotion to Mahomed Ali Jinnah (though it was never enough for him to actually emulate the great man's honesty and integrity and courage)

To quote (Ghulam Ahmed Parwez's) Tolu-e-Islam's website (Bhutto could have been addressing freaks like Masadi):

On December 21, 1976, the then Prime Minister of Pakistan, late Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto addressed a joint session of the National Assembly and Senate of the federation held to commemorate the centenary of birth of Quaid-e-Azam. Addressing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait hanging on the wall, he said in a most dramatic fashion: -

"Quaid-eAzam!

I know what arrows pierced your heart (during struggle for Pakistan). The British said you were arrogant. This was understandable, because you had refused to bow before them. The Congress leaders and their henchmen called you stubborn. That too was to be expected, because they had failed to trick you. What is not understandable, and what must have certainly bewildered and distressed you is, that the nation, for whose sake you were putting up with all this, was in forefront of your tormentors!"

Then he went on to give details of what people from one province or the other had done against the Quaid-e-Azam. After this detail, he remarked about the irony that the Maulvis and Maulanas had also pounced upon him. He followed with an observation that among his critics, a certain person, although saying things similar to others, couched them in a comparatively fancy language. Then he started quoting in English, excerpts from the book by Mr. Maudoodi titled "Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil" Volume 3. He quoted so extensively, that the text covered two columns and a half of Pakistan Times of December 23, 1976.


So there... this lays to rest the uneducated and ignorant claims by Masadi about Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

Now we know how he will respond:

1. He will declare that I don't have the intellectual depth.

2. He will declare that he knows Bhutto better because he has done much research on god knows what.

3. He will declare that he is gospel truth himself.


In retrospect... the worst thing Jinnah did was to create opportunities for people like Masadi. It is anybody's guess what sewer Masadi would be in if it hadn't been for Pakistan.

Re: # 107

{Lets have some good time.}

Rock & Roll.....

tAhmed:
History of democracy is related to Struggle against king by English Aristocrats who wanted more say in decision making. Humans have not advanced to the stage with unknown name so far for what you have in mind in terms of democracy.
You are well aware of third party movements in America, and what their take is on two party system etc.

rf786:
Do you think I am here to convince.
Lets have some good time.

Dear Dr. Gill Sahib:

Thank you for being the voice of reason when emotions are flared up.

Democracy is not only elections but a mind set and a process based on egalitarian principles that needed to be reminded. It was certainly due at this juncture.

Thanks again.

#97 Masadi {"The people of Pakistan want food, they want clothing, they want healthcare and security for their families, "}

Masadi Sahib,
At the risk of upsetting Hamidumdum Sahib and missing out on some future round of free Stroh's, allow me to compliment you on an excellent post. Goodunya

I see that tahmed and his chaprasee have redflagged my posts again. This hypocrite talks about "democracy" while supporting colonization and US overlordship over the world. If there is one Ueber rogue nation that has absolutely no concern for international law or even for its own constitution when it comes to usurping the rights of even its own people, it is the US of A being run by a tiny elite that populate its corporate, military and political institutions and many peons like tahmed supporting their BS.

Re: # 92

krashid1961

Why don't u understand one thing, the people u r trying to convince have already made up their minds and refuse to hear leave alone accept voices from the south, have u already forgotten what they have done with BB?

Re: # 77

{.... Did you notice that all the chest-beating mourners of May 12 are hypocritically silent at the behavior of PPP goons and the loss of life and catastrophic destruction of Pakistan that they have inflicted?}

Maybe they carry a guilty conscience, facts cannot be refuted and that they do not wish to discuss.

Frisco #93 While what you say about democracy being a question of attitudes is to some extent true , you are incorrect in assuming that is all there is to it.

Democracy is fundamentally a system of government - a system where every individual stays within the laws of the country, including the "apex law" namely the Constitution, on pain of charged and punished as a criminal.

By saying "it is in the eye of the beholder" you merely muddy the waters as surely as Cheema tried to muddy the waters concerning the manner in which Benazir laid down her life for the cause of democracy.

Dalrymple's article "but Bhutto has always seemed reassuringly familiar to Western governments - one of us."

The day the Western elite consider any one of us (Imran Khan included) as "one of us", that will be the day when a-holes like Dalrymple don't have to become "experts" on Pakistan and remind us their "best friends" are Pakistanis. Get this sob off our case, we don't need more of the orientalist BS about Pakistan who understand less about it than the illiterate, half starved eight year old who is grinding his fingers weaving carpets...

Pakistan's flawed and feudal princess

It's wrong for the West simply to mourn Benazir Bhutto as a martyred democrat, says this acclaimed south Asia expert. Her legacy is far murkier and more complex

William Dalrymple

Sunday December 30, 2007

The Observer

One of Benazir Bhutto's more dubious legacies to Pakistan is the Prime Minister's house in the middle of Islamabad. The building is a giddy, pseudo-Mexican ranch house with white walls and a red tile roof. There is nothing remotely Islamic about the building which, as my minder said when I went there to interview the then Prime Minister Bhutto, was 'PM's own design'. Inside, it was the same story. Crystal chandeliers dangled sometimes two or three to a room; oils of sunflowers and tumbling kittens that would have looked at home on the Hyde Park railings hung below garishly gilt cornices. The place felt as though it might be the weekend retreat of a particularly flamboyant Latin-American industrialist, but, in fact, it could have been anywhere. Had you been shown pictures of the place on one of those TV game-shows where you are taken around a house and then have to guess who lives there, you may have awarded this hacienda to virtually anyone except, perhaps, to the Prime Minister of an impoverished Islamic republic situated next door to Iran.

Which is, of course, exactly why the West always had a soft spot for Benazir Bhutto. Her neighbouring heads of state may have been figures as unpredictable and potentially alarming as President Ahmadinejad of Iran and a clutch of opium-trading Afghan warlords, but Bhutto has always seemed reassuringly familiar to Western governments - one of us. She spoke English fluently because it was her first language. She had an English governess, went to a convent run by Irish nuns and rounded off her education with degrees from Harvard and Oxford. 'London is like a second home for me,' she once told me. 'I know London well. I know where the theatres are, I know where the shops are, I know where the hairdressers are. I love to browse through Harrods and WH Smith in Sloane Square. I know all my favourite ice cream parlours. I used to particularly love going to the one at Marble Arch: Baskin Robbins. Sometimes, I used to drive all the way up from Oxford just for an ice cream and then drive back again. That was my idea of sin.' It was difficult to imagine any of her neighbouring heads of state, even India's earnest Sikh economist, Manmohan Singh, talking like this. For the Americans, what Benazir Bhutto wasn't was possibly more attractive even than what she was. She wasn't a religious fundamentalist, she didn't have a beard, she didn't organise rallies where everyone shouts: 'Death to America' and she didn't issue fatwas against Booker-winning authors, even though Salman Rushdie ridiculed her as the Virgin Ironpants in his novel Shame.

However, the very reasons that made the West love Benazir Bhutto are the same that gave many Pakistanis second thoughts. Her English might have been fluent, but you couldn't say the same about her Urdu which she spoke like a well-groomed foreigner: fluently, but ungrammatically. Her Sindhi was even worse; apart from a few imperatives, she was completely at sea. English friends who knew Benazir at Oxford remember a bubbly babe who drove to lectures in a yellow MG, wintered in Gstaad and who to used to talk of the thrill of walking through Cannes with her hunky younger brother and being 'the centre of envy; wherever Shahnawaz went, women would be bowled over'. This Benazir, known to her friends as Bibi or Pinky, adored royal biographies and slushy romances: in her old Karachi bedroom, I found stacks of well-thumbed Mills and Boons including An Affair to Forget, Sweet Imposter and two copies of The Butterfly and the Baron. This same Benazir also had a weakness for dodgy Seventies easy listening - 'Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree' was apparently at the top of her playlist. This is also the Benazir who had an enviable line in red-rimmed fashion specs and who went weak at the sight of marrons glace.

But there was something much more majestic, even imperial, about the Benazir I met when she was Prime Minister. She walked and talked in a deliberately measured and regal manner and frequently used the royal 'we'. At my interview, she took a full three minutes to float down the 100 yards of lawns separating the Prime Minister's house from the chairs where I had been told to wait for her. There followed an interlude when Benazir found the sun was not shining in quite the way she wanted it to. 'The sun is in the wrong direction,' she announced. Her hair was arranged in a sort of baroque beehive topped by a white gauze dupatta. The whole painted vision reminded me of one of those aristocratic Roman princesses in Caligula This Benazir was a very different figure from that remembered by her Oxford contemporaries. This one was renowned throughout Islamabad for chairing 12-hour cabinet meetings and for surviving on four hours' sleep. This was the Benazir who continued campaigning after the suicide bomber attacked her convoy the very day of her return to Pakistan in October, and who blithely disregarded the mortal threat to her life in order to continue fighting. This other Benazir Bhutto, in other words, was fearless, sometimes heroically so, and as hard as nails.

More than anything, perhaps, Benazir was a feudal princess with the aristocratic sense of entitlement that came with owning great tracts of the country and the Western-leaning tastes that such a background tends to give. It was this that gave her the sophisticated gloss and the feudal grit that distinguished her political style. In this, she was typical of many Pakistani politicians. Real democracy has never thrived in Pakistan, in part because landowning remains the principle social base from which politicians emerge. The educated middle class is in Pakistan still largely excluded from the political process. As a result, in many of the more backward parts of Pakistan, the feudal landowner expects his people to vote for his chosen candidate. As writer Ahmed Rashid put it: 'In some constituencies, if the feudals put up their dog as a candidate, that dog would get elected with 99 per cent of the vote.'

Today, Benazir is being hailed as a martyr for freedom and democracy, but far from being a natural democrat, in many ways, Benazir was the person who brought Pakistan's strange variety of democracy, really a form of 'elective feudalism', into disrepute and who helped fuel the current, apparently unstoppable, growth of the Islamists. For Bhutto was no Aung San Suu Kyi. During her first 20-month premiership, astonishingly, she failed to pass a single piece of major legislation. Amnesty International accused her government of having one of the world's worst records of custodial deaths, killings and torture. Within her party, she declared herself the lifetime president of the PPP and refused to let her brother Murtaza challenge her. When he persisted in doing so, he ended up shot dead in highly suspicious circumstances outside the family home. Murtaza's wife Ghinwa and his daughter Fatima, as well as Benazir's mother, all firmly believed that Benazir gave the order to have him killed. As recently as the autumn, Benazir did and said nothing to stop President Musharraf ordering the US and UK-brokered 'rendition' of her rival, Nawaz Sharif, to Saudi Arabia and so remove from the election her most formidable rival. Many of her supporters regarded her deal with Musharraf as a betrayal of all her party stood for.

Behind Pakistan's endless swings between military government and democracy lies a surprising continuity of elitist interests: to some extent, Pakistan's industrial, military and landowning classes are all interrelated and they look after each other. They do not, however, do much to look after the poor. The government education system barely functions in Pakistan and for the poor, justice is almost impossible to come by. According to political scientist Ayesha Siddiqa: 'Both the military and the political parties have all failed to create an environment where the poor can get what they need from the state. So the poor have begun to look to alternatives for justice. In the long term, flaws in the system will create more room for the fundamentalists.' In the West, many right-wing commentators on the Islamic world tend to see the march of political Islam as the triumph of an anti-liberal and irrational 'Islamo-fascism'. Yet much of the success of the Islamists in countries such as Pakistan comes from the Islamists' ability to portray themselves as champions of social justice, fighting people such as Benazir Bhutto from the Islamic elite that rules most of the Muslim world from Karachi to Beirut, Ramallah and Cairo.

This elite the Islamists successfully depict as rich, corrupt, decadent and Westernised. Benazir had a reputation for massive corruption. During her government, the anti-corruption organisation Transparency International named Pakistan one of the three most corrupt countries in the world. Bhutto and her husband, Asif Zardari, widely known as 'Mr 10 Per Cent', faced allegations of plundering the country. Charges were filed in Pakistan, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States to investigate their various bank accounts.

When I interviewed Abdul Rashid Ghazi in the Islamabad Red Mosque shortly before his death in the storming of the complex in July, he kept returning to the issue of social justice: 'We want our rulers to be honest people,' he said. 'But now the rulers are living a life of luxury while thousands of innocent children have empty stomachs and can't even get basic necessities.' This is the reason for the rise of the Islamists in Pakistan and why so many people support them: they are the only force capable of taking on the country's landowners and their military cousins.

This is why in all recent elections, the Islamist parties have hugely increased their share of the vote, why they now already control both the North West Frontier Province and Baluchistan and why it is they who are most likely to gain from the current crisis. Benazir Bhutto was a courageous, secular and liberal woman. But sadness at the demise of this courageous fighter should not mask the fact that as a pro-Western feudal leader who did little for the poor, she was as much a central part of Pakistan's problems as the solution to them.

· William Dalrymple's latest book, The Last Mughal: The Fall of a Dynasty, Delhi 1857, published by Bloomsbury, recently won the Duff Cooper Prize for History

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...233334,00.html

What is "real democracy" in Pakistan? The answer is mostly in the eye of beholder. However the criticism on the political forces working with the people and for the people is mostly unjustified. In my observation, the context is critical factor to analyze the actions. Many analysts who lack the practical political experience on the ground consider the matured idealized democratic system to be achieved without going through the growing pains. The growing pain does not refer to the military dictatorship as a guide to democracy. It refers to the maturity of political process through open political process. Expecting a child to grow within few days of her birth is naïve at best. The political parties of Pakistan in general and PPP in particular have faced the wrath and brutal force of army intelligence since its inception. One can argue reasonably that PPP may not have the characteristics of an ideal political party. However, I will argue without any hesitation that it is the only people created political institution in Pakistan.
Coming back to the real democracy, I will argue that it has more to do with the attitude then anything else. I see secular and religious extremists in Pakistan with barely any moderates in the country. The moderation calls for co-existence in a pluralistic society with the acceptance of every member of the society as an equal partner in the future of the society. Both secular and religious consider each other as a threat to national integrity. While the extremist views of both sides are the major cause of intolerance and terrorism in the society.
Why transfer of chairmanship as monarchy within family? I will urge you to look at the India which is a democratic country in our neighborhood. The family factor plays a role. The Indian government had already tackled the issue of land reforms but still family factor is the strongest factor in political scene in India. There must be land reforms in Pakistan. However the lack of land reforms is not accurate logic for keeping party leadership within family. We are a society emotionally attached to individuals, groups, and/or families. This encompasses almost all groups in religion, politics, and/or other major social organizations. We can debate the reasons or causes for that behavior but it is the prevalent behavior in our society. This cultural and behavioral norm is accepted and practiced by majority. PPP represents is the representative of people and it has contributed to transform the society. It does so not by confronting the norms but working with these. It is very understandable to complain about the political forces without understanding the context.

tahmed writes "Scores of brave Pakistanis have given up their lives for this cause, with Benazir being only the latest martyr. Thousands of brave Pakistanis have faced armed polce for this cause. Hundreds have given up careers for this cause."

This guy is atrocious, his entire life on Chowk (which is a large chunk of his retired life) is spent trying to legitimize US agenda as if it were the desire of the Pakistani people. To that end he is using, much like the US elite do, the lives of our people for his own perverse ends. The people of Pakistan give a rat's a$$ about democracy, rule of law, dictatorship or any other such thing. They care first and foremost at this juncture about their needs being met and for someone to pull them out of this animal like existence that the US and its occupation force, the military has trapped them in. They are sick and tired of US/Pak Army shenanigans and distractions by deciding "democracy" for them and all the carnage and butchering that is mere distraction and further entrapment in this cycle of BS. The people of Pakistan want food, they want clothing, they want healthcare and security for their families, and the way to get that is neither through the US occupation force (the Pak Army) or US implemented "democracy" and for God's sake get this sob (tahmed ) off the case of the people of Pakistan. We don't need backstabbers. Spend your damn time talking about Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears, leave the people of Pakistan alone.

Mr. Gill, Well done! I just read your article which is very aptly summed up and in a nutshell, that exactly is what ails democracy in Pakistan. How can we expect democracy from people and political parties who themselves operate in dynastic, corrupt and opportunistic ways? Unfortunately after having been dispossed for so long, people have lost real awareness, and even the so-called educated ones are coming up with abominable lame excuses for democratic lapses in political parties and their dynastic and dictatorial operation. Having said that, I must say also that the murder of BB was a sad sad event from the human as well as the national perspective, and the ensuing rampage of the vandals was just as sad. How unfortunate that a handful of people could hold 160 million people hostage for so many days!

Krashi1961,
...and not to mention the thousands of martyrs who gave their lives against the oppression, brutality, and corruption of BB and her 10% husband and the notorious bloodthirsty Minister of her Interior, Ghaleezloola BuRbuR.

Sir TAhmed.
Democracy and rule of Law is very good.
1- In Lal Masjid and Hafsa people have announced Shariah Law and when Administration reacted a lot of Hoopla.
2- Army has ruled Pakistan for most of its years.
3- People in Northern areas Swat, Waziristan wants Shariah Law.
4- Baluch Liberation Army still believes in Seperate Baluchistan. And Army action there is not far off.
Democracy on the barrell of gun.
Second thing I am just refuting allegation on the basis of News . If you can give me more information, I might think again.
There is no question that there are not scores but millions of Martyrs for democracy in Pakistan. Before 1971 there were hundreds against Ayub Khan. Then in Bangladesh. Then ironically in Bhutto's time. During Zia era. And now.

krashid #92 the direction is clear for us as a nation - democracy and the rule of law. And the hurdle at this point is Musharraf and his ego.

Why do you say the direction is not clear? Scores of brave Pakistanis have given up their lives for this cause, with Benazir being only the latest martyr. Thousands of brave Pakistanis have faced armed polce for this cause. Hundreds have given up careers for this cause. If the direction is not clear to you, then perhaps you need to open your eyes to the reality of Pakistan. Instead of keeping them tightly closed, saying one thing ("I am not MQM") and doing another (plastering this board with the hollow MQM propaganda).

TAhmed. 83
As I said I am not MQM.
I will go by actions and words.
The list clearly demonstrate that MQM consists of people from all nationalities. How can I interpret it otherwise.
On my thought I have very clearly stated in the very beginning.
First we have not yet determined our direction as a nation.
Second local leaders and parties should take care of provincial politics.
Third for national decision making, not only political parties but all institutions of states should be involved.

{MQM Rally in Punjab: 17 April 2007
MQM WOULD HOLD ANOTHER LARGEST RALLY AGAINST RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM IN PUNJAB, DATE AND VENUE WOULD BE ANNOUNCED SOON PEOPLE OF PUNJAB TO PREPARE THEMSELVES FOR THE RALLY --- ALTAF HUSSAIN
Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) would hold the another big rally against “Kalashnikov and Baton Wielding Shariah and Religious Extremism” in the province of Punjab, date and venue would be announced soon. Mr Altaf Hussain, founder and leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) has appealed to the people of Punjab to prepare themselves to participate in this gathering in large number to protest against enforcement of the “Kalashnikov and Stave Wielding Shariah and Religious Extremism” }
{Altaf Hussain Condemned Police atrocities against lawyers: 12 March 2007
POLICE BRUTALITY IN LAHORE ON LAWYERS FRATERNITY IS INHUMAN, UNLAWFUL
AND DESERVES SEVERE CONDEMNATION- ALTAF HUSSAIN
Mr. Altaf Hussain, founder and leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) termed the police brutality inflicted on lawyers’ fraternity today in Lahore during a protest rally as inhuman, unlawful and that deserves severe condemnation}
... {MQM Celebrate HOLI At Nine Zero: 03 March 2007
MQM SUPPORTERS OF HINDU ORIGIN CELEBRATING THEIR RELIGIOUS FESTIVAL HOLI AT THE MQM HEAD OFFICE NINE ZERO IN KARACHI ALONG WITH THE MEMBER OF MQM COORDINATION COMMITTEE}
{Altaf Hussain: Samjhota Express 10 February 2007
Samjhota Express blasts toll rises to 67
BOMB ATTACK ON SAMJUAHTA EXPRESS IS A NAKED TERRORISM
AND COWARDLY ACT AS WELL AS A CONSPIRACY TO SABOTAGE ATMOSPHERE
OF FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA -- ALTAF HUSSAIN}
{ Altaf Hussain: Terror Attacks: 29 January 2007
Altaf Hussain slams terror attacks, Daily Dawn
Muttahida Qaumi Movement chief Altaf Hussain has expressed grief over the loss of life in another suicide blast in Dera Ismail Khan and rocket attack on an Imambargah in Bannu district}
{ US Consulate General: MQM Women Wing Punjab 16 January 2007
Women Protection Act is a landmark in Pakistan’s history, says, Bryn Hunt, US Consulate General, Lahore
Address to a seminar on “women role in the development of society” organized by the women wing of MQM }
{Altaf Hussain: Organ Trade 08 January 2007
Altaf Hussain wants law to curb organ trade, Daily Dawn
KARACHI, Jan 7: Muttahida Qaumi Movement chief Altaf Hussain has expressed his deep concern over the trading in human organs, and urged President General Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to get the menace curbed through legislation}
All news are dated from MQM website.

#64 root {"Salim_chauhan,
Maybe you also did not watch what MQM did in May of 2007. How many people were killed by them and did any one of them was brought to justice? MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. Do you know what much democratic MQM is? Why only blame PPP only? "}

Root,
I leave it to you to respond to Majumdar Bhai's questions in #66.
Suffice it to say that the events following BB's assassination, PPP workers, supporters, and goons have broken all records of collective hooliganism - only the Awami League of Mujib in 1971 comes close.

I talked to relatives in KHI and someone said that the destruction is so wanton that "we have regressed 20 years." I hope that is an exaggeration, but it shows how traumatized the victims have become.

If I were the Governement of Pakistan, I would jail all of these hooligans starting with Zardari on down and not release them until they have compensated everyone for their losses due to PPP's acts of looting, plunder, arson, and murder. Maybe the $1.5B can be requisitioned to pay off the victims. :(

#65 tvarad {"For the faujis, Pakistan is their own Swiss Bank and fiefdom, so why would they need to stash away their money elsewhere and buy up palaces in far-away lands?"}

TV Dude,
That's what I always say - charity begins at home. BB didn't even trust LaRkana for her stash. :(

{Altaf Hussain appeal for ceasefire: 29 October 2007
CEASEFIRE BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND RESISTING GROUP IN SWAT IS WELCOMING – ALTAF HUSSAIN
London-29 October 2007 Mr Altaf Hussain, founder and leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) welcoming the ceasefire between the Government and resistant group asked both sides that it is necessary for the sake of long term and sustainable peace to analyse the situation which lead to the war and to ponder that? who would benefit from this war. He further enquired would the people of Swat or Pakistan benefit from this war? ]
[ Mr. Altaf Hussain, Founder and Leader of the Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) said that Pakistan is confronted with extremely crucial situation. The issue of Northern Areas, Sawat and Waziristan should be resolved through dialogue and negotiation.]
According to him, on May 11, Jehangir called at the MQM International Secretariat in London and had a telephonic conversation with Mohammad Anwar, a senior member of the MQM in

London.

{Sattar claimed that on May 11 Asma informed him on the telephone that, “on May 12, there will be a bloodbath, bullets will be fired, and a conspiracy is being hatched against you (MQM).”}
{ Disappeared Families: Protest 11 May 2007
Families of 28 “Disappeared” Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) workers held a peaceful protest out side the Supreme Court in Islamabad
Islamabad-11 May 2007 Families of 28 involuntarily “Disappeared” workers of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) held a peaceful protest out side the Supreme Court in Islamabad on Friday. Parents, Sisters, Brothers, children and relatives of the 28 missing workers of MQM had assembled out side the Supreme Court displaying play cards, banners and the photographs of the missing workers. During the demonstration, emotional scenes including wailing and crying were visible. The demonstrators briefed the representatives of Electronic and Print media the details of the arrests and “Disappearances” of their loved ones during arbitrary detention. }
{Altaf Hussain: Sucidal Attack in Charsadda 28, April 2007
SUICIDAL ATTACK IN CHARSADDA IS NAKED TERRORISM – ALTAF HUSSAIN
London – 28th April 2007: MQM Founder & Leader Mr Altaf Hussain has strongly condemned the suicide bomb attack in Charsadda, NWFP during the public meeting of Pakistan Peoples Party (Sherpao).}
tO BE CONTINUED.

majumdar #66 {"How so? How many people have MQM killed? How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest, how many in B'stan and NWFP in the ZAB Govt. And how many Mojos in Karachi by BB- N Babur combine, and how many killed by Talibs spawned by BB's 2nd Regime."}

Majumdar Bhai,
Very good questions - I hope that you get your answers. All I can say is that Mojo bhayyas are called a "non-martial race" when military employment is the need and "bloodthirsty, organized killers" when bigots need to find escape goats for their own violence. :(

Chacha abhi bhi waqt he. Qabl isske ke doosri taaNg bhi uttar aaye, maafi maaNg lo. Taassub sirf ek bimaari he aur la ilaaj nahin he. :)

4- Supporting Military dictatorship, while ridiculing Civil Society.
{Mr. Altaf Hussain, Founder and Leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) has appealed to the President of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf for the compensation of thousands of affected families during the last days of marauding incidents in Sindh after the assassination of Mohtarama Benazir Bhutto.}
{Altaf Hussain: Charsadda Blast 24 December 2007
Altaf Hussain condemns suicide attack in Charsadda,}

{Altaf Hussain pays condolence to Nawab Khair Buksh Marri
Mr. Altaf Hussain Founder and Leader of the Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) expressed his deep and profound sorrow over the unexpected death of Balach Marri son of Nawab Khair Buksh Marri in a clash. While commenting on the death incident, Mr. Hussain said that the Government should disclose the real facts to the nation about the death incident of Balach Marri.}
ALTAF HUSSAIN APPEALS TO PRESIDENT AND CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER TO SYMPATHETICALLY CONSIDER TO ALLOW THE TV CHANNELS TO RESTART THEIR BROADCAST THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS AND TALKS



{London – 19th November 2007.....MQM Founder & Leader Mr Altaf Hussain has sympathetically appealed to the President General Pervez Musharraf and Caretaker Prime Minister Mohammad Mian Soomro that as the election schedule is being announce on 20th November and general elections are to be held on 8th January as announced by the Election Commission, therefore, by once again demonstrating magnanimity as shown before repeatedly by them, they should sympathetically consider to allow Geo and ARY TV to restart their broadcast through negotiations and talks}
{ Altaf Hussain : 08 November 2007
Altaf Hussain Felicitates Hindu Community on Diwali: Mr Altaf Hussain, Founder and Leader of Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM) extended his felicitation to the Hindu community living throughout the world including Pakistan on their religious festival of Diwali}
Altaf Hussain : 03 November 2007
NO POLITICAL PARTY CAN EXPRESS PLEASURE ON THE IMPOSITION OF EMERGENCY – ALTAF HUSSAIN
DEMANDS OF THE PRESIDENT GENERAL PERVEZ MUSHARRAF TO LIFT THE EMERGENCY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION
{MQM Founder & Leader Mr Altaf Hussain while commenting on the “imposition of emergency” has stated that no political party can express pleasure and the MQM also regrets this decision. He demanded of the President General Pervez Musharraf to lift the emergency as soon as possible and restore the Constitution }
To be continued

krashid1961 #80
Very convincing information. Perhaps the vocal bigots can feel free to express their apologies and express their remorse for their venomous prejudice.:)

krashid: you write "I just put the news. As reported. I am not MQM.", and then proceed to plaster this board with mqm literature and mqm candidates listings. And I see you totally ignored what I wrote about speaking for yourself, rather than cutting and pasting miles of literature.

Whats the deal, my friend? You and I are not going to change the world by writing on chowk. So relax and spare yourself all this agony. :-)

mohar #76 {"Just make sure you allocate a patch of land somewhere for mohajirs... I don't want these people to turn around and knock at our door... :) "]

Mohar Bhayya,
Not even a couple of kshatryas coming back home? :)

3- Killing of political opponents, on May 12.
I don't agree with May 12 version as I gave news cuttings.
I am also a vocal opponent of killing political opponents. Because Multicultural place like Karachi should have multiple voices.

List of MQM Candidates:
ELECTION 2008

HAQ PARAST CANDIDATES FOR

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY FROM

INTERIOR SINDH



District Sukkur:

No.
Constituency
Name

1
NA-198
Munawar Ali Chohan

2
NA-199
Waheed Mughal




District Ghotki:

3
NA-200
Pir Bux Solangi

4
NA-201
Dr. Imam Bux




District Shikarpur:

5
NA-202
Syed Jahan Shah

6
NA-203
Shah Nawaz Mehar




District Larkana:

7
NA-204
Gulam Mohiuddin Durrani

8
NA-205
Sohail Abbasi Advocate




District Qamber Shehdad Kot:

9
NA-206
Gulzar Mugheri

10
NA-207
Ubaidullah Blaidi




District Jacobabad:

11
NA-208
Mohammad Nadeem Brohi

12
NA-209
Mohammad Anwer Sayyal




District Kashmor:

13
NA-210
Khair Bux Khossa




District Noshero Feroz:

14
NA-211
Nisar Ahmed

15
NA-212
Mohammad Aslam Tahiri




District Nawab Shah:

16
NA-213
Mohammad Mureed Brohi

17
NA-214
Ali Asghar Rind




District Khairpur:

18
NA-215
Abdul Qadir Solangi

19
NA-216
Noor Mohammad Sehto

20
NA-217
Dr. Mrs. Irshad Bano



District Hyderabad:

21
NA-218
Fateh Mohammad

22
NA-219
Tayab Hussain

23
NA-220
Salahuddin

24
NA-221
Dr. Mumtaz Chandio

25
NA-222
Akbar Mallah




District Tando Allahyar:

26
NA-223
Mehmood Qadir Khanzada




District Badin:

27
NA-224
Aleem Qaim Khani

28
NA-225
Asghar Ali Purhyar




District Mirpur Khas:

29
NA-226
Prof. Khursheed Ahmed Siddiqui

30
NA-227
Shabbir Ahmed Qaimi




District Umar Kot:

31
NA-228
Ponjo Mal Bhel




District Jam Shoro:

32
NA-231
Mohammad Jawaid Quraishi




District Dadu:

33
NA-232
Gulam Murtaza Solangi

34
NA-233
Syed Zahid Ali Shah




District Sanghar:

35
NA-234
Riaz Shar

36
NA-235
Dev Das

37
NA-236
Hanif Ansari




District Thatha:

38
NA-237
Irfan Ali Bukuk

39
NA-238
Ms. Heer Ismail Soho

Excerpts from MQM websirte. (I don't see any ethnic tilt)

2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi.
{To further the programme of national development and a nation-wide campaign against feudal domination, Mohajir Quami Movement was formally transformed into Muttahida Quami Movement on 26 July 1997}
PREAMBLE:
MQM is the only political party of Pakistan which represents and comprises of
working, middle class and poor masses of the country who are presently down
trodden, disadvantaged and exploited by the two percent ruling elite.}
{MQM has revolutionised politics in Pakistan by its peaceful struggle. Its elected
representatives and office bearers are chosen by ordinary party workers and people on
merit not by virtue of being born in a feudal family or political dynasty.}
{MQM is struggling to abolish this obsolete system in order to establish a truly
democratic, progressive and egalitarian society in the country where all citizens have
equal rights irrespective of their colour, creed, language, ethnicity, gender, belief and
religion.}
{The cherished goals of MQM are eradication of political authoritarianism, abolition of
feudal system, promotion of cultural pluralism, devolution of power to the grass root
level and to achieve maximum provincial autonomy. MQM believes in induction of
the common man in the power structure to provide maximum opportunity to
economically and socially deprived people-“empowerment for all” for a better and
safer life for today and tomorrow.}
To be continued

TAhmed:
Point 1 is killing of peaceful preotestors. I just put the news. As reported. I am not MQM.

rf786 #63 {"The Sharifs and the great white hope Imran Khan have openly practiced Punjabi/Northern politics at the expense of the Southern populations yet the hypocrites fail to acknowledge and condemn these bigots simply because they themselves are hypocrites. ...MQM is what it is, like it or not they are here to stay. To their credit they do not hide behind some fake rhetoric nor do they cater to the rich and famous. Yet they are not suitable for these jackasses, so I say girthee huwee diwaron ko aik dhaka aur do..."}

Bismillah Bhai,
I agree with you completely. These bigots use "democracy" as a cover for oppression and a return to the horrible years of BB I, NS I, BB II, and NS II. Did you notice that all the chest-beating mourners of May 12 are hypocritically silent at the behavior of PPP goons and the loss of life and catastrophic destruction of Pakistan that they have inflicted?

Just make sure you allocate a patch of land somewhere for mohajirs... I don't want these people to turn around and knock at our door... :)

Looking at the level bad blood and vitriol among various major enthnic groups in pakiland - it's probably better for you guys to just split up - enough with this pakiland experiement already...separate sindh, punjab, baloch... and give out NWFP to afgans... :)

go the checkoslovakia way - peacefully and cordially - before it's too late and too many people die... too many people are dead already...

krashid #72 It is impossible to understand your point if you simply cut and paste some news item. Instead, could you please simply say briefly why you disagree on item 1 (to which it seems your 3 posts below relate) if you still continue to disagree on what I think is a simple factual matter?

And why is it so important to defend a political party as you are doing for the mqm? Why is it so important to provide legal cover (as you seem to be doing) to a military coup? If you really care about Pakistan, or even about one community of people within Pakistan - that is fine. But then, it is better to identify these and see what is the best way to serve this interest. A political party is a means to and end (i.e. the welfare of the community one cares about), not an end in itself. I would urge you to re-think your views in keeping this in mind - and then perhaps you will see why the struggle for democracy in Pakistan is ultimately in everyone interests - the mohajir community in Pakistan, Pakistan as a nation, and indeed the entire region and the rest of the world as well.

Re: # 63

Salim Sahib,

Pleasure is all mine. Making a mockery of democracy is a pertinent title for all the bigots on this forum who pretend to uphold highest standards of democracy but in actuality behave practice the worst kind of hypocrisy.

The Sharifs and the great white hope Imran Khan have openly practiced Punjabi/Northern politics at the expense of the Southern populations yet the hypocrites fail to acknowledge and condemn these bigots simply because they themselves are hypocrites.

MQM is what it is, like it or not they are here to stay. To their credit they do not hide behind some fake rhetoric nor do they cater to the rich and famous. Yet they are not suitable for these jackasses, so I say girthee huwee diwaron ko aik dhaka aur do...

Riots disrupt Karachi calm: •34 killed, 140 injured •rivals trade allegations.
The utter failure of the Sindh government and the law-enforcers to maintain law and order made the city hostage to political workers. However, Adviser to the Sindh Chief Minister on Home Affairs Waseem Akhtar blamed the chief justice for a breakdown in law and order and deaths in incidents of violence.
{Despite the heavy deployment of law-enforcement agencies across the city as claimed by the police, they suddenly disappeared from the troubled spots allowing the rival groups to trade fire with each other, resulting in deaths and injuries to dozens of people.}
{DIG Operations Mushtaq Shah said that 2,000 additional police personnel were deployed along Sharea Faisal. “Police acted as a buffer between the rival groups; otherwise the casualties would have been much higher,” he added
{Sporadic incidents of violence started early in the morning as a man, belonging to a religious group, was gunned down in Landhi while people preparing to receive the Chief Justice were fired upon. Similarly, three policemen and seven other people were wounded in clashes between rival political party workers at Abdullah College and two other policemen were wounded in SITE}
(Police said participants of the opposition rally attempted to set fire to at least four petrol pumps on Sharea Faisal following the incidents of firing by the rivals}
{The Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) said in a statement that its 10 activists were among those who lost their lives on Saturday while PPP said its 15 party workers were killed in attacks on the rally}
All news from Dawn 13th March
To be continued.

The district and sessions judges who were sidelined by the then Lahore High Court Chief Justice Falak Sher on account of their involvement in financial irregularities
{ oath taken by the judges under Provisional Constitutional Order and in view of recent verdicts upholding various orders and acts of the present military regime}
To be continued

TAhmed:
On your point1
{On May 12, 2000, Pakistan's Supreme Court unanimously validated the October 1999 coup}

{Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry was made a "non functional Chief Justice" on March 9, 2007. In so acting, President Pervez Musharraf invoked two main clauses of the Constitution of Pakistan.}
{On 12 March 2007, lawyers across Pakistan began boycotting all court procedures in protest against the suspension. In the capital Islamabad, and in other cities such as Lahore, Karachi and Quetta, hundreds of lawyers dressed in black suits attended rallies, condemning the suspension as unconstitutional.}
{According to Khairi, Hussein Chaudhry acquitted two people -- Eid Gul and Shahzad Gul -- who were sentenced to life imprisonment by a session judge. The complainant has maintained that the judge took a bribe in the case.}
{This constitutional amendment has paved the way for a large number of lawyers and private citizens coming forward to lodge their private complaints against the judges of the Superior Judiciary," said a senior lawyer.}
{According to media reports and SC sources, three members on the five-member highest judicial panel in the country face references pending against them on charges ranging from misconduct, misuse of authority, corruption and embezzlement. The fourth has a personal grouse against Justice Iftikhar for having occupied his residence in Karachi while the presiding judge has a conflict of interest problem.}
{Arbab has said that he would appear before the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) if asked to give a statement. A number of complaints have been placed on record by the Sindh province concerning the conduct of the suspended chief justice}
To be continued

#60 krashid: I wish what you say about mqm being non-ethnic were true. But I dont see how can say that in the face of evidence to the contrary over a period of decades. The fact is that while mqm leaders understand that they can never be a significant political force at the national level without support from the rest of Pakistan, they have proved emotionally incapable of thinking outside narrow ethnic boundries. They are thus doomed to playing a negative and divisive role in Pakistan politics.

On your specific responses:

1. Killing of peaceful protestors on March 12.
You say: MQM claims that it is other way round.
My Response: You know what mqm claims is not true, so it is obvious that you merely gloss over this fact merely to avoid agreeing on this point of fact. All you achieve, though, is undermine your own credibility as an objective observer. The Chief Justice had spoken before peaceful demonstrators for democracy in other cities in Pakistan, and there was no reason to believe that things would be otherwise in Karachi. The Chief Justice was speaking out against military dictatorship, not against mqm or any other political party.

2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi.
You say: As the above history suggest MQM started as ethnic party, but later changed its direction. In fact administration supported the party based on Mohajir Qaumiat against Muttahida which changed its direction. And MQM is composed of Non Mohajirs as well as Mohajirs.
My Response: While mqm tried to change direction, it has failed to do so. Just changing the name means nothing. And its betrayal of the democracy movement and support for musharraf can only be understood based on its ethnic mindset I referred to above, since there is no other obvious reason for a mqm to have supported musharraf's attempts to stay on as military ruler. This again points to the short-sighted mindset of mqm leaders who failed to recognize that musharraf owes his power to the military, and military rule is ultimately harmful to all Pakistanis regardless of ethnicity.

3- Promote violence against political opponents.
You say: When APMSO started its politics it was targeted and its workers were beaten badly. It from the very beginning had to fight the Jamiat terrorism. Later on since it has changed its name and direction, violence is against MQM and thousands of its workers havers have been killed in the name of EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING.
My response: The killings of May 12, and the fact that the murderers of May 12 walk free without any mqm leader calling for their arrest, demonstrate otherwise.

4- Supporting a military dictatorship, while ridiculing Pakistan civil society.
Your response: Where was Pakistan civil society when there was operation in Sind and Baluchistan against the people by the Army. MQM always supported and took stand for those people, whether they were part of Government or not. While so called flag bearer of civil society were taking oath on PCO bypassing the principled Supreme court judges and making sure their children get a good future bypassing the law.

My response: In writing the above, you provide a "rationale" for opposing the civil society of Pakistan. Thus contradicting your own claims above that mqm is no longer an ethnic party. Nor is this "rationale" - even if it were fair and objective - is not enough to support the betrayal of Pakistan by mqm during its darkest hours.

#66 Posted by majumdar on January 1, 2008 3:34:58 am


How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest


Why are you bringing up the killing of a few hundred thousand people? Are you a muslim hating, pakistan hating indian hater or something?

Salim-Chauhan (61), tahmed32, and hamidm2:

Guys, thank you for focusing on the raison d'etre of the article.

Mohammad Gill

(MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. )

How so? How many people have MQM killed? How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest, how many in B'stan and NWFP in the ZAB Govt. And how many Mojos in Karachi by BB- N Babur combine, and how many killed by Talibs spawned by BB's 2nd Regime.

Regards

Salim_Chuahan:

"Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court."

For the faujis, Pakistan is their own Swiss Bank and fiefdom, so why would they need to stash away their money elsewhere and buy up palaces in far-away lands?

Salim_chauhan,
Maybe you also did not watch what MQM did in May of 2007. How many people were killed by them and did any one of them was brought to justice? MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. Do you know what much democratic MQM is? Why only blame PPP only?

#25 rf786 {"I believe your slip is showing when u show such one-sided, prejudicial view of history.... Here we go again, since Musharraf is a mutarwa he does not deserve your generosity. Surely u wud have some evidence to back these claims of yours, otherwise people would reserve the right to call you a liar. ... admit it you are a hypocrite who pretends to honor democracy but are just a plain old bigot."}

Bismillah Bhai,
Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court. Maybe a 2000 sq yd plot here and there for guarding our borders just like the other ghazis, but no billions in 10% kickbacks or siphoned aid dollars. Thank you for trying to balance the blame scale.

#54 root {"Why target PPP only, how about MQM? Is it not know to be a terrorist organization. MQM is the one that should be banned and not PPP."}

Root,
Maybe you have not been watching the destruction of Pakistan at the hands of PPP workers, supporters, and ordinary goons. Did Arjun post something about Rs. 300 billion as an estimate? Forget about the loss of life - Pakistan can always afford losing people (our lives are cheap), but all that money is going to add up to real value sooner or later.

If I were the Government of Pakistan, I would jail every one of the PPP leaders and not release those bastards until they compensate all the victims of their party's senseless rioting.

{"Those who are seeking to establish democracy should begin to establish it at the grass roots. The political parties which seek to contest elections must abide by some fundamental requirements. Their parties should be rid of dynastic control (like PPP) and democratized. ... Otherwise, a government of an undemocratic party is as bad, if not worse, than the government of an army dictator."}

Gill Sahib,
Very good point! This is the type of stuff that our blind, deaf, dumb, and mute "Demo Cracy, Demo Cracy" chanting ethnic bigots fail to consider. They just want people to vote and certify another Vadera or Country Bumpkin to head our country.

#16 krashid: What has mqm done other than "survive" and rant hollow slogans about the "feudal/industrialist alliance"? Let me count for you:

1. Kill peaceful protestors on May 12.
2. Promote ethnic rifts in karachi.
3. Promote violence against political opponents.
4. Support a military dictatorship while ridiculing Pakistani civil society that has bravely stood up.

I would be much obliged if you could tell me what I am missing above. If you cant do that, then it seems to me that you need to get your basis straight and look through the eyes of a democrat.

The roots of MQM start from its student politics. APMSO. At that time all major student parties were either associated with National, Regional Political parties or Foreign powers.
It started with rights of Mohajir or Urdu speaking. From the very beginning out of necessity against Jamate-Islami