Making a Mockery of Democracy

Gill Saheb, you're spot on in most of this article. I fully agree.

Even though the below is a quote, and not your personal opinion, I would like to correct just for the sake of record:

Murtaza’s wife Ghinwa and his daughter Fatima as well as Benazir’s mother, all firmly believed that Benazir gave the order to have him killed.”

This is not correct. Fatima was crying uncontrollably on TV. Ghinwa believes that, yes, and Mumtaz Bhutto too to some extent.

However, it is on record that Benazir had signed Murtaza's detention orders by the Ministry of Interior, but she had no idea they were going to kill him.

Regards.

#16 krashid: What has mqm done other than "survive" and rant hollow slogans about the "feudal/industrialist alliance"? Let me count for you:

1. Kill peaceful protestors on May 12.
2. Promote ethnic rifts in karachi.
3. Promote violence against political opponents.
4. Support a military dictatorship while ridiculing Pakistani civil society that has bravely stood up.

I would be much obliged if you could tell me what I am missing above. If you cant do that, then it seems to me that you need to get your basis straight and look through the eyes of a democrat.

nasah:

First let me point out again that I am against military rule whether it's of Musharaff, Zia, or Ayyub's. So please don't bracket me with the pro-Musharaff camp.

Secondly, you are not hitting the nail on its head but going round and round in your rationalizations. Tell me what qualifications does Bilawal have to be the top leader of PPP? Don't tell me it's only symbolic; he is the chairman of the party or isn't he?

You are carried away by your love for BB and her party which is feudalistic and dynastic at the top. It is true that she was a charismatic person but as a leader she did very little for Pakistan.

All that I am saying is that PPP needs reform. It should be released from its dynastic clutches.

Mohammad Gill

Perhaps Zardari will be a better leader than Ben' Bhu' might have been, because Zardari knows he has to overcome his image problem. What I find curious is that independently wealthly people like the Bhuttos, Sharifs and Musharrafs don't just relocate permanently to the south of France and live it up on the Riviera till they drop, they keep coming back for more loot in their country of origin. Absolute power, it seems, has a fatal attraction to it.

#20
bhuttos got wealthy by grabbing land generations ago. sharif's got wealthy decades ago by creating industrial units in Pakistan.
musharraf got wealthy the past few years - by abusing his uniform to take over and wreck the rule of law in the country and blackmail the rest of the world with his mullah bogeymen.

Which wealth is legitimate, and which is mere criminal?

Re: # 19
Freethinker;

loyality based on caste and tribal loyalities is nothing new. See what hapened to Indian leadership when Indira Gandhi was assasinated.! Rajiv was selected because of pedigree of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty! Only difference was he was nearly forty- that is all and was chosen by a sort of nod from leaders of other parties too in N.Delhi.

In that sense, South Asian political culture has a long way to attain high degree of maturity and development. So give some time. Teenager Bilwal will not be matched to a shrewed, experienced commando General in civvies. He maight get outmanouvered or or!! Have patience.

Kamath

Gill Sahib,

The FP shows this caption

[Waging democracy in the spirit of revenge is the worst form of democracy.] is twisting the meaning that was actually said "Democracy is the best revenge."

Please do not twist the actual meaning of the spoken words.

Of course, winning through free and fair elections is the best revenge for PPP at this time.

Also, PPP gave the masses a free spirit to think and rise up against the established society, when it started back in the late 60's. It is the poor masses of Pakistan that love this party.

Gill Sahib,

With all due respect I was hoping to see the William

Dalrymple article on the CHOWK FP instead of it being

quoted. It was sent to me by a friend yesterday.

That said, you are not too far off the mark on how

the new Chairman of the PPP was chosen.

Maybe in AZ it is BB that has had her final revenge!

Ras

Re: # 21

Mohtarem (knowing u dislike being called Chaudhry) tahmed32

I believe your slip is showing when u show such one-sided, prejudicial view of history.

(a) In your opinion Bhuttos got wealthy by grabbing land generations ago. Now one would ask where did u get that information from and are u not just spinning your prejudices by presenting a fictitious one would say ethnically driven bias.

(b) Then you go on to give the biggest dacoits of Pakistan a clean bill of health simply because they belong to your mohalla ie thwade garaein heingay. (sharif's got wealthy decades ago by creating industrial units in Pakistan.) Everyone in Lahore knows where their wealth came from, ask any Banker who suffered under their take loan and have it written off program.

(c) musharraf got wealthy the past few years - by abusing his uniform to take over and wreck the rule of law in the country and blackmail the rest of the world with his mullah bogeymen. Here we go again, since Musharraf is a mutarwa he does not deserve your generosity. Surely u wud have some evidence to back these claims of yours, otherwise people would reserve the right to call you a liar.

Come on tahmed32 sahib, admit it you are a hypocrite who pretends to honor democracy but are just a plain old bigot.

By the way, wish you a very very happy New Year.

The road to liberal democracy is a long, hard and torturous, unfortunately there is no shortcut, east Europe is an exception. there will be many disappointments along the way, corruption, dynasties, unmet expectations. Once the democratic process runs over a length of time, the electorate will reject corrupt dynasties and new decent leadership will emerge. In west Europe there is no dynasties not even of Churchill or de Gaulle, simply because the parties and the electorate will not stand for it.

I think Shariff evaded Rs. 36 crore repayment to banks...nothing but pillage of public funds (money stashed in banks by public).

iss hammam mein sab nanga hain....sorry.

Ras:

It seems you're holding me responsible that Dalrymple's article was not published at Chowk. Firstly, he may have chosen to publish it in The Observer which has a wider readership than chowk. Had he submitted his article to chowk, the chowk management would have published it on the front page. I don't have anything to do with how the articles are selected for publishing at chowk. I am just a member like you.

Dalrymple's article is informative and interesting. Had he published at chowk, I might still have quoted from it.

Mohammad Gill

...now sharif flaunts his Mayfair residence in London to reporters.

It may hurt ppl like Ras but the truth remains...

I was telling this time and again: 'why return of Benazir and/or Shariff would be called revivial of democracy in Pakistan?'

Dr. Gill's article indireclty touches this angle. Democracy in Pakistan has nothing to with BB or NS. As for aspirations...may be both are seen as saviours but they are no true democrats themselves...anointing bilawal confirms this bare fact that the champions of Pakistan are not necesarily democrats...sorry again..

Gill, before you talk about "mockery of democracy", let us talk about a "mockery of human intelligence" that every single article of yours makes. This article is a collection of three or four quotes from Western sources, that is the sum total of this "tape recorderesque, parrot, news caster prompt readeresque" article. Why do you even bother to write this type of nonsense when there is zero thought involved in them? That said, Benazir was coming around slowly, it was getting harder and harder to get a smooth power sharing deal installed towards the end. The US fovourite is the army, this "democracy" sham that the US was setting up was a "stop gap" type arrangement the first purpose of which was to strip the peon out of favor, Musharraf of his uniform, that was achieved using the BB, step 2 was to get a transitory civilian government in place until the next military coup at the heels of the Iran campaign, this step was what was not going smoothly under the BB and now under the Zardari will proceed extra smoothly if the US decides to give it time, which I feel it might not because the Iran plans may have been bumped up, which will require a direct transition to martial law shortly: to be followed by civil war and US occupation of the Western parts.

VRV "anointing bilawal confirms this bare fact that the champions of Pakistan are not necesarily democrats"

It is not that simple, anointing Bilawal has less to do with family succession and more to do with the powers behind the assassination to control the direction of the party to the perverse ends desired by the Pakistan Army/US

I read the whole article by William Dalrymple after reading Mr. Gill's and I found it highly informative. Truth is that both these articles must have hurt the feelings of Diehard PPP fans as can be seen from the comments. Somebody mentioned about democracy as revenge quote was just a metaphor from an awkward nervous 19 year old kid. Well everybody knows that these were not his words. He was quoting his mother who was not 19 years old when she made this statement and yes actually BB did took revenge not from the military but from the whole nation. Her two terms were some kind of punishment for the whole of the nation in which she looted the already poor and pitiable pakistanis with both hands. Since her return from exile and sometime before that she had been making strange comments like that if she was in power 9/11 would not have taken place. Hmmmm ..... a lady who could not save her brother from being killed ruthlessly by her husband in her own term as PM how could have she saved the world from such a disaster. She also claimed that only she was capable enough to save the world from the horrors of Talibanisation but she only failed to mention that it was she who was responsible for the birth of Talibans and also it was her interior minister who reffered to Talibans as his boys. Only reason she gave for her failures during her two terms was that intelligence agencies were not letting her do her job. So if she was not capable of handling the ISI and MI then she should have stayed away from politics afterwards rather than making lame excuses and still campaining to be prime minister for third time ( A prime minister who would have again laid the blame on agencies for her incompetency). She was a champion of democracy who felt no shame in bequeathing a political party to her son and husband (Mr 10 %) well this is something that signifies in what kind of democracy she and her father believed in. Krashid truly enlightend us by telling that her father took control of diminished pakistan. Well he was one of those who were responsible for the "Diminished Pakistan". He along with Yahya were the ones who refused to hand over the power to Shiekh Mujeeb although he had almost double the parliamentry seats(160 to be exact whereas Mr Bhutto's party had won 81 NA seats). As a true democratic leader he refused to let those people form the Governemt in center who had the majority. His slogans like "Udher tum idher Hum" and threats of breaking the legs of those who went to Dhaka havnt been forgotten by many. Since the inception of PPP only the Bhutto's have been Lucky enough to grace the throne of this party. Benazir Bhutto nominated her husband as party chairman in her will as if it was not a political party rather her personal property. and her husband nominated his 19 year old son about whom he said that nobody should ask him any questions directly as he was at tender age (well he has credentials to be the chairman of the party but the young lad is not able to answer questions of journalist due to his immaturity ....hmmmm). Truth is he is not chairman rather he is monarch because political leaders are choosen on thier abilities not the will of their dead mothers(or fathers). PPP leadership can go to any extent to keep the power. They can even change their caste just to gather sympathies and to be the nominal chairperson as Bilawal who was once a Zardari is now a Bhutto. Now we have a co-chairperson of PPP in the form of Mr Asif Zardari better known as Mr ten percent who might be the next premier . So it is chance for him to improve on his past record and be Mr twenty percent.