Making a Mockery of Democracy

Mohammed Gill:
I think peoples party was not formed in 1963 I think it is typo.

{The PPP was launched at its founding convention held in Lahore on November 30 - December 01, 1967. At the same meeting, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was elected as its Chairman..
During its Government from Dec. 20, 1971 to July 5,1977, the PPP government made significant social and economic reforms that did much to improve the life of Pakistan's impoverished masses. It also gave the country a new Constitution and took many other steps to promote country's economic and political recovery after the disastrous years of military rule. PPP remained the only concrete hope for a better future of the poor masses...
Bhutto was symbol of Reform and Reconstruction. Bhutto master minded Pakistan's first Steel Mill, a second Port and commissioned Pakistan's first hydro electric dam on the mighty Indus at Tarbela. He made Pakistan self sufficient in the filed of fertilizers, sugar, and cement. He nationalized Banks and Life Insurance Companies, he also initiated Pakistan’s Nuclear Programme.

1972 Land Reforms slashed the individual holding to 150 acres of irrigated or 300 acres of un-irrigated land. In 1977 the ceiling was further reduced to 100 acres of irrigated and 200 acres of un-irrigated land.
The Islamic Summit was held in Lahore attended by all the heads of Muslim states. Thus making Pakistan a center of Islamic Unity. To his credit are the Electrical Mechanical Complex at Wah, The Aeronautic Complex at Kamrah, The Kahuta Project for Nuclear Bomb. He made education upto Matric free, provided books free to the students, provided allowances to unemployed graduates and two increments to Science Graduates in their salaries, thousands of Government employees who were not confirmed for over 5 to 15 years were confirmed in their jobs. The system of part time government employees was changed to whole time government employees. First May was declared public holiday
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was a man of multidimensional qualities. He was a political philosopher and at the same time implemented his political philosophy.



He master minded a political party and made it a mass movement. He was an articulate mass orator and a superb diplomat. Taking the country out of chaos he was the driving force to effectively establish an organized government machinery. He was never vindictive. He faced death bravely}
}
To be continued

{While leading a procession in Lahore the police hit Begum Bhutto on her head who had been elected the Acting Chairperson of the Party following the arrest of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in September,1977. Benazir Bhutto who was elected as Co-Chairperson of the party, following the disqualification of Begum Nusrat Bhutto, in February,1978 suffered impairment in hearing during incarceration.
Despite inexplicable repression, PPP. survived and indeed, gained in strength. Its own activists reaffirmed their resolve to fight against the criminal dictatorship. Segments of masses which had become alienated from it, now rallied to its support. The progressive forces outside the PPP. began to cooperate with it. The leadership of the party was in the hands of Mrs. Nusrat Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto-Bhutto's widow and daughter respectively who gave it a renewed sense of radicalism. The PPP. accepted the challenge of General Zia when Ms. Benazir Bhutto commanded the party workers and supporters that party would fight on all fronts - at the polls as well as in the field demonstrations, public meetings and protests. So the party participated in the non-party local bodies elections. It swept the polls throughout the country from Karachi to Khyber, the urban as well as rural areas, and washed away the impression that PPP. has lost its popularity or mobilization capacity. It paved the way for the political parties to unite
The proof of the party's centrality to the politics of Pakistan came when nine political parties, including some which had helped in its overthrow as member of the PNA, united with it in the Movement for the Restoration of Democracy (MRD). In its first statement issued in February, 1981, the movement demanded the holding of "free, fair, and impartial election". When the government failed to oblige, the MRD, in the summer of 1983, brought out its followers to confront the military in the streets of Sindh.



Benazir Bhutto rescued and rebuilt the party from scratch, leading an epic movement for the restoration of Democracy, her historical welcome in Lahore on 10th 1986 was the turn of the tide. In the meantime Zia was digging his own grave. He dismissed his hand picked protege Muhammad Khan Jonejo and dissolved the National Assembly of Pakistan on May 29, 1988. A few days before his death, while revealing his plans for a presidential system, he told a confidante "I will be around a long time". Fate intervened on l7th August, 1988 when the C-130, carrying him crashed in a ball of fire and Zia went from ashes to ashes and his system from dust to dust
The proof of the party's centrality to the politics of Pakistan came when nine political parties, including some which had helped in its overthrow as member of the PNA, united with it in the Movement for the Restoration of Democracy (MRD). In its first statement issued in February, 1981, the movement demanded the holding of "free, fair, and impartial election". When the government failed to oblige, the MRD, in the summer of 1983, brought out its followers to confront the military in the streets of Sindh.



Benazir Bhutto rescued and rebuilt the party from scratch, leading an epic movement for the restoration of Democracy, her historical welcome in Lahore on 10th 1986 was the turn of the tide. In the meantime Zia was digging his own grave. He dismissed his hand picked protege Muhammad Khan Jonejo and dissolved the National Assembly of Pakistan on May 29, 1988. A few days before his death, while revealing his plans for a presidential system, he told a confidante "I will be around a long time". Fate intervened on l7th August, 1988 when the C-130, carrying him crashed in a ball of fire and Zia went from ashes to ashes and his system from dust to dust
The proof of the party's centrality to the politics of Pakistan came when nine political parties, including some which had helped in its overthrow as member of the PNA, united with it in the Movement for the Restoration of Democracy (MRD). In its first statement issued in February, 1981, the movement demanded the holding of "free, fair, and impartial election". When the government failed to oblige, the MRD, in the summer of 1983, brought out its followers to confront the military in the streets of Sindh.



Benazir Bhutto rescued and rebuilt the party from scratch, leading an epic movement for the restoration of Democracy, her historical welcome in Lahore on 10th 1986 was the turn of the tide. In the meantime Zia was digging his own grave. He dismissed his hand picked protege Muhammad Khan Jonejo and dissolved the National Assembly of Pakistan on May 29, 1988. A few days before his death, while revealing his plans for a presidential system, he told a confidante "I will be around a long time". Fate intervened on l7th August, 1988 when the C-130, carrying him crashed in a ball of fire and Zia went from ashes to ashes and his system from dust to dust
General Zia-ul-Haq's death in August, 1988, changed the scene. While Zia's supporters were in total disarray following his death. The PPP under Benazir Bhutto's dynamic leadership quickly mobilized public support. A number of politicians who supported Zia vied to join PPP. Despite the factors stated above the party did well in the election of November, 1988 but it was not able to repeat the performance of 1970. It emerged as single largest party in the National Assembly with 92 of the 207 seats contested in the elections. It was able to secure majority only in one province: Sindh. It was only with the support of the MQM and some small parties that it was able to form a government at the Center with Benazir Bhutto as Prime Minister, the first women in modern history to head a government of a Muslim country. She was not allowed to work independently and her government was dismissed by President Ghulam Ishaque on August 6, 1990. She had to work under the constant shadow of President Ghulam Ishaq Khan.}
To be continued

{In the general elections held on 24 October, 1990, the Pakistan People's Party suffered defeat due to massive rigging. The party had formed an electoral alliance with the Tehrik-e-Istiqlal and Tehrik-e-Nafaz Fiqh Jafria (TNFJ), under the name of Pakistan Democratic Alliance (PDA) The PPP won 46 of 107 national assembly seats contested by it. Islamic Jamhoori Itehad (IJI) led by Mian Muhainmad Nawaz Sharif won with majority.



PPP allegations were confirmed by Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi, the caretaker Prime Minister in 1990 that the elections were stolen and had been rigged. In Sindh a reign of terror was let loose. So much so that Asif Ali Zardari was involved in 12 criminal cases including a case of murder of 5 persons. Despite Jam Sadiq and Muzaffar's personal supervision he was acquitted in all the cases,. Jam Sadiq said had I been instructed by the President I would have managed to defeat Benazir
After the dismissal of Nawaz Sharif’s Government in 1973, Benazir Bhutto returned to office, following long March on Nov. 18, 1992 when Benazir Bhutto was baton charged and arrested. Many PPP. leaders and workers were beaten and arrested by Sharif Government. Benazir Bhutto once again returned to the office of Prime Minister.Benazir Bhutto had redefined the Party programme at the Silver Jubilee of the Party at Lahore in November, 1992. The New Social contract envisaged a social market economy, Privatization of the means of production, downsizing of the government, devolution of power and decentralization to the level of Local Government. So Benazir Bhutto's government was dismissed for the second time on November 5,1996 by her hand picked President Farooq Leghari, who betrayed her as General Zia-ul-Haq had betrayed her father
In the aftermath of the 1997, engineered elections, Pakistan fell into the grip of a civilian dictatorship and the Muslim League into the clutches of Sharif family. Sharif's, a protege of Zia, amended the constitution. Taking advantage of the nuclear tests of May 28, the government proclaimed an Emergency which enabled the Federal government to impose a unitary form of Government by arrogating powers of provincial governments to itself. In the province of Sindh, the country's second largest Province, where the Muslim League was a Minority party with less than a fifth of the seats in the Provincial Assembly maneuvered to form government. A similar threat loomed large on the North West Frontier Province where the Muslim League minority Government had parted ways with the traditionally strong Awami National Party. The government of the Baluchistan National Party led by Akhtar Mengal was over thrown. In a bid to concentrate powers in their family, the Sharif brothers maneuvered the passage of the Shariat Bill i.e. the l5th Amendment (AC 15) in the National Assembly which was however stalled in the Senate.}....
To be continued

{Benazir Bhutto is in forced exile these days and her husband Asif Ali Zardari is in jail since November, 1996 facing bravely a number of cases engineered by Sharif Govt. as process of victimization, spurred by political vendetta.General Pervaiz Musharraf took over on Oct. 12, 1999 by removing corrupt and inept Government of Nawaz Sharif. In reply to a petition by Nawaz Sharif in the Supreme Court of Pakistan challenging Army's action of Oct. 12, 1999, the present regime stated that 1997 election were manipulated by Muslim League, thus vindicating the specific allegation by PPP. Today almost all political parties and leaders including some Nawaz Sharif Muslim Leaguers are anxiously awaiting a move by Ms. Benazir Bhutto and PPP. for the restoration of democracy. It is Benazir Bhutto and PPP who can put the economy and social and organizational structure of Pakistan on rail again and ensure masses food, shelter, education and health care and open avenues for job opportunities to the young men of Pakistan. She will choose her own timing for forcing the Military Junta to retreat and hand over power back to the people of Pakistan.}...
All excerpts from brief history by Fakhar Zaman

{Bhutto Government
Under Bhutto's leadership a diminished Pakistan began to rearrange its national life. Bhutto nationalized basic industries, insurance companies, domestically owned banks, and schools and colleges. He also instituted modest land reforms that benefited tenants and middle-class farmers. He removed the armed forces from the process of decision-making, but to placate the generals he allocated about 6 per cent of the gross national product to defence. In 1973 the National Assembly adopted the country's fifth constitution. Bhutto became Prime Minister, and Fazal Elahi Chaudhry replaced him as President. Although discontented, the military remained silent for some time. Bhutto's nationalization programme and land reforms further earned him the enmity of the entrepreneurial and capitalist class, while religious leaders saw in his socialism an enemy of Islam. His decisive flaw, however, was his inability to deal constructively with the opposition. His rule grew heavy-handed. In general elections in March 1977 nine opposition parties united in the Pakistan National Alliance (PNA) to run against Bhutto's PPP. Losing in three of the four provinces, the PNA alleged that Bhutto had rigged the vote. It boycotted the provincial elections a few days later and organized demonstrations throughout the country that lasted for six weeks.}
Zia Regime
When the situation seemed to be deadlocked, the army Chief of Staff, General Muhammad Zia Ul-Haq, staged a coup on July 5, 1977, and imposed another military regime. Bhutto was tried for political murder and found guilty; he was hanged on April 4, 1979.
Zia formally assumed the presidency in 1978 and established Shari'ah (Islamic law) as the law of the land. The constitution of 1973 was initially amended, then suspended in 1979, and benches were constituted at the courts to exercise Islamic judicial review.Interest-free banking was initiated, and maximum penalties were provided for adultery, defamation, theft, and the consumption of alcohol. On March 24, 1981, Zia issued a provisional constitutional order, operative until the lifting of martial law. It envisaged the appointment of two vice-presidents and allowed political parties that had been approved by the election commission before September 30, 1979, to function. All other parties, including the PPP, now led by Bhutto's widow and by his daughter, Benazir, were dissolved. Pakistan was greatly affected by the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in December 1979; by 1984 some 3 million Afghan refugees were living along Pakistan's border with
Afghanistan, supported by the government and by international relief agencies. In September 1981 Zia accepted a six-year economic and military aid package (worth US$3.2 billion) from the United States. After a referendum in December 1984 endorsed Zia's Islamic-law policies and the extension of his presidency until 1990, Zia permitted elections for parliament in February 1985. A civilian Cabinet took office in April, and martial law ended in December. Zia, however, was dissatisfied and, in May 1988, he dissolved the government and ordered new elections. Three months later he was killed in an aeroplane crash, and a caretaker military regime took power.


Benazir Bhutto
A civil servant, Ghulam Ishaq Khan, was appointed President, and Benazir Bhutto became Prime Minister after the PPP won the general elections held in November 1988. She was the first female political leader of a modern Islamic state. In August 1990 President Ishaq Khan dismissed her government, charging misconduct, and declared a state of emergency. Bhutto and the PPP lost the October elections after she was arrested for corruption and abuse of power. The new prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, head of the Islamic Democratic Alliance, continued the programme of privatizing state enterprises and encouraging foreign investment begun in the 1980s. He also promised to bring the country back to Islamic law and to ease continuing tensions with India over Kashmir. The charges against Bhutto were resolved, and she returned to lead the PPP.
In April 1993 Ishaq Khan once again used his presidential power, this time to dismiss Sharif and to dissolve parliament. However, Sharif appealed to the Constitutional Court of Pakistan, which stated that Kahn's actions were unconstitutional and reinstated Sharif as Prime Minister. Sharif and Kahn subsequently became embroiled in a power struggle that paralysed the Pakistani government. In an agreement designed to end the stalemate, Sharif and Kahn resigned together in July 1993, and elections were held in October of that year. The PPP won and Bhutto was again named Prime Minister. Farooq Ahmad Khan Leghari became the new president in November 1993}...
Angelfir {History of Pakistan excerpts}

Gill sahib,

Good article...

Mr Gill, I don't think it is fair to talk of what Ghinwa and her side of the family think when there has never been any proof of this, and you don't mention the fact that Benazir always denied it. We will never know the truth, but charges were never laid.
Do the people of Pakistan want a Western-style democracy? I don't see that among individuals on chowk; many were earlier happy to let the army rule, and many would like a Taliban style government.

"Waging democracy in the spirit of revenge is the worst form of democracy. This shows the type of democracy which Benazir Bhutto’s (BB) Peoples Party wanted to enforce in Pakistan."(Gill)

What has happened to you Dr. Gill you are getting a little too literal like a fundamentalist these days.

For crying out loud -- that is just a metaphor from an awkward nervous 19 year old kid -- being a little too heavily interpreted by a 56 year old veteran supposedly sedate doctor of science in such dire terms. I think you are overinterpreting in your biased article. Take it easy.

"what can be more undemocratic than this" -- how about Musharraf sahib's 'democrazy' -- what do you think?

krashid1961:

Thanks for pointing out the mistake regarding 1963. PPP was founded in 1967.

nasah:

You've completely missed the central point of the article. PPP is dynastic in character and not democratic. Such a party which insists on passing the leadership from father to daughter and to the son can hardly introduce true democracy in Pakistan. It needs first to reform itself.

Is "an awkward nervous kid" fit to be the leader of PPP? What qualifications does he have to become the top leader of PPP other than being the son of his mother, BB?

And Bilawal did not say "democracy is the best revenge," he simply quoted his mother. Pakistan will continue to suffer in its political misery until there are some fundamental reforms in the political parties.

Be well,

Mohammad Gill

Gill:
although it is sad but true that the politics you are proposing should be ideal.
But ideological parties both on the left and right with their democratic character are not able to sustain themselves.
I think Bhutto will be ceremonial like Gandhi for congress. Real politics will still be done by people in Pakistan.

Gill Sahib: I fully agree with you. Yesterday, we saw the spectacle of a 19 year old "prince" being anointed successor. A few weeks ago, we saw what should have been a simple change of command in the army to a Royal Coronation ceremony where Musharraf handed over the baton like a retiring emperor handing over the crown to his anointed successor. What a disgrace these clowns are to the nation!!

These primitive and narrow mindsets are the true enemy of Pakistan. This is what Pakistanis, led by those who truly understand the importance of the rule of law to a nation - i.e. the lawyers and judges still languishing in jail - are up against!!

#11 krashid: i think sir that you are confusing the term "ideals" with the term "ideologues". These are two different things. And to condone wadera-practices, as you are doing, is not the same as being realistic. It is merely being slavish to rulers.

Re: # 10 Mohammad:
It is indeed a sad story that Pakistan is lurching from crisis to crisis. If things don't get better in the next few years, the country can implode and the ripple effects will move outward into adjacent countries and outsiders like US, China,Saudi Arabia Afghanistan, Iran and India will be drawn into the mess. It is too horrible to contemplate.

What a pity, people of Pakistan have to gothrough this terrible conditions. I really hope they will come out of this storm! What is the use of fighter planes, missiles and nukes. How can they save or protect Pakistan from internal enemies.?

Kamath

Re: # 10

"Is "an awkward nervous kid" fit to be the leader of PPP"(Gill)

come on freethinker -- do you really believe that teenager is NOW the new leader of the PPP -- after that macabre ceremony -- which is more regional than national -- more symbolic than political -- more emotional than real -- more idiosyncratic than mainstream -- more Pkistan specific than even subcontinental.

To tell you honestly the whole make up of Pakistan's political culture -- past present and I am sure, future -- is as weird and macabre as that of 'khanqahi' coronation of a 19 year old kid as the gaddi nasheen new Pir of the PPP.

So I am surprised that you are surprised.

I thought by this time educated people like you who can be comfortable with the weird macabre ‘democrazy’ of Musharraf sahib will be used to the weirdness of the Larkana ceremony as well -- as tahmed has rightly pointed out.

By the way a "revenge through democracy" that you make it sound so ominous -- may also simply mean -- getting even through non violent, rule of law means -- that is through elections -- or do you think that Musharraf sahib can get even with his gun but the opposition can't get even - even through elections?

Sir TAhmed:
You are the biggest enemy of MQM which is surviving against all odds against Feudal/Industrialist alliance.
Have your basis straight and you will start looking through the eyes of a democrat.

Gill Saheb, you're spot on in most of this article. I fully agree.

Even though the below is a quote, and not your personal opinion, I would like to correct just for the sake of record:

Murtaza’s wife Ghinwa and his daughter Fatima as well as Benazir’s mother, all firmly believed that Benazir gave the order to have him killed.”

This is not correct. Fatima was crying uncontrollably on TV. Ghinwa believes that, yes, and Mumtaz Bhutto too to some extent.

However, it is on record that Benazir had signed Murtaza's detention orders by the Ministry of Interior, but she had no idea they were going to kill him.

Regards.

#16 krashid: What has mqm done other than "survive" and rant hollow slogans about the "feudal/industrialist alliance"? Let me count for you:

1. Kill peaceful protestors on May 12.
2. Promote ethnic rifts in karachi.
3. Promote violence against political opponents.
4. Support a military dictatorship while ridiculing Pakistani civil society that has bravely stood up.

I would be much obliged if you could tell me what I am missing above. If you cant do that, then it seems to me that you need to get your basis straight and look through the eyes of a democrat.

nasah:

First let me point out again that I am against military rule whether it's of Musharaff, Zia, or Ayyub's. So please don't bracket me with the pro-Musharaff camp.

Secondly, you are not hitting the nail on its head but going round and round in your rationalizations. Tell me what qualifications does Bilawal have to be the top leader of PPP? Don't tell me it's only symbolic; he is the chairman of the party or isn't he?

You are carried away by your love for BB and her party which is feudalistic and dynastic at the top. It is true that she was a charismatic person but as a leader she did very little for Pakistan.

All that I am saying is that PPP needs reform. It should be released from its dynastic clutches.

Mohammad Gill

Perhaps Zardari will be a better leader than Ben' Bhu' might have been, because Zardari knows he has to overcome his image problem. What I find curious is that independently wealthly people like the Bhuttos, Sharifs and Musharrafs don't just relocate permanently to the south of France and live it up on the Riviera till they drop, they keep coming back for more loot in their country of origin. Absolute power, it seems, has a fatal attraction to it.

#20
bhuttos got wealthy by grabbing land generations ago. sharif's got wealthy decades ago by creating industrial units in Pakistan.
musharraf got wealthy the past few years - by abusing his uniform to take over and wreck the rule of law in the country and blackmail the rest of the world with his mullah bogeymen.

Which wealth is legitimate, and which is mere criminal?

Re: # 19
Freethinker;

loyality based on caste and tribal loyalities is nothing new. See what hapened to Indian leadership when Indira Gandhi was assasinated.! Rajiv was selected because of pedigree of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty! Only difference was he was nearly forty- that is all and was chosen by a sort of nod from leaders of other parties too in N.Delhi.

In that sense, South Asian political culture has a long way to attain high degree of maturity and development. So give some time. Teenager Bilwal will not be matched to a shrewed, experienced commando General in civvies. He maight get outmanouvered or or!! Have patience.

Kamath

Gill Sahib,

The FP shows this caption

[Waging democracy in the spirit of revenge is the worst form of democracy.] is twisting the meaning that was actually said "Democracy is the best revenge."

Please do not twist the actual meaning of the spoken words.

Of course, winning through free and fair elections is the best revenge for PPP at this time.

Also, PPP gave the masses a free spirit to think and rise up against the established society, when it started back in the late 60's. It is the poor masses of Pakistan that love this party.

Gill Sahib,

With all due respect I was hoping to see the William

Dalrymple article on the CHOWK FP instead of it being

quoted. It was sent to me by a friend yesterday.

That said, you are not too far off the mark on how

the new Chairman of the PPP was chosen.

Maybe in AZ it is BB that has had her final revenge!

Ras

Re: # 21

Mohtarem (knowing u dislike being called Chaudhry) tahmed32

I believe your slip is showing when u show such one-sided, prejudicial view of history.

(a) In your opinion Bhuttos got wealthy by grabbing land generations ago. Now one would ask where did u get that information from and are u not just spinning your prejudices by presenting a fictitious one would say ethnically driven bias.

(b) Then you go on to give the biggest dacoits of Pakistan a clean bill of health simply because they belong to your mohalla ie thwade garaein heingay. (sharif's got wealthy decades ago by creating industrial units in Pakistan.) Everyone in Lahore knows where their wealth came from, ask any Banker who suffered under their take loan and have it written off program.

(c) musharraf got wealthy the past few years - by abusing his uniform to take over and wreck the rule of law in the country and blackmail the rest of the world with his mullah bogeymen. Here we go again, since Musharraf is a mutarwa he does not deserve your generosity. Surely u wud have some evidence to back these claims of yours, otherwise people would reserve the right to call you a liar.

Come on tahmed32 sahib, admit it you are a hypocrite who pretends to honor democracy but are just a plain old bigot.

By the way, wish you a very very happy New Year.

The road to liberal democracy is a long, hard and torturous, unfortunately there is no shortcut, east Europe is an exception. there will be many disappointments along the way, corruption, dynasties, unmet expectations. Once the democratic process runs over a length of time, the electorate will reject corrupt dynasties and new decent leadership will emerge. In west Europe there is no dynasties not even of Churchill or de Gaulle, simply because the parties and the electorate will not stand for it.

I think Shariff evaded Rs. 36 crore repayment to banks...nothing but pillage of public funds (money stashed in banks by public).

iss hammam mein sab nanga hain....sorry.

Ras:

It seems you're holding me responsible that Dalrymple's article was not published at Chowk. Firstly, he may have chosen to publish it in The Observer which has a wider readership than chowk. Had he submitted his article to chowk, the chowk management would have published it on the front page. I don't have anything to do with how the articles are selected for publishing at chowk. I am just a member like you.

Dalrymple's article is informative and interesting. Had he published at chowk, I might still have quoted from it.

Mohammad Gill

...now sharif flaunts his Mayfair residence in London to reporters.

It may hurt ppl like Ras but the truth remains...

I was telling this time and again: 'why return of Benazir and/or Shariff would be called revivial of democracy in Pakistan?'

Dr. Gill's article indireclty touches this angle. Democracy in Pakistan has nothing to with BB or NS. As for aspirations...may be both are seen as saviours but they are no true democrats themselves...anointing bilawal confirms this bare fact that the champions of Pakistan are not necesarily democrats...sorry again..

Gill, before you talk about "mockery of democracy", let us talk about a "mockery of human intelligence" that every single article of yours makes. This article is a collection of three or four quotes from Western sources, that is the sum total of this "tape recorderesque, parrot, news caster prompt readeresque" article. Why do you even bother to write this type of nonsense when there is zero thought involved in them? That said, Benazir was coming around slowly, it was getting harder and harder to get a smooth power sharing deal installed towards the end. The US fovourite is the army, this "democracy" sham that the US was setting up was a "stop gap" type arrangement the first purpose of which was to strip the peon out of favor, Musharraf of his uniform, that was achieved using the BB, step 2 was to get a transitory civilian government in place until the next military coup at the heels of the Iran campaign, this step was what was not going smoothly under the BB and now under the Zardari will proceed extra smoothly if the US decides to give it time, which I feel it might not because the Iran plans may have been bumped up, which will require a direct transition to martial law shortly: to be followed by civil war and US occupation of the Western parts.

VRV "anointing bilawal confirms this bare fact that the champions of Pakistan are not necesarily democrats"

It is not that simple, anointing Bilawal has less to do with family succession and more to do with the powers behind the assassination to control the direction of the party to the perverse ends desired by the Pakistan Army/US

I read the whole article by William Dalrymple after reading Mr. Gill's and I found it highly informative. Truth is that both these articles must have hurt the feelings of Diehard PPP fans as can be seen from the comments. Somebody mentioned about democracy as revenge quote was just a metaphor from an awkward nervous 19 year old kid. Well everybody knows that these were not his words. He was quoting his mother who was not 19 years old when she made this statement and yes actually BB did took revenge not from the military but from the whole nation. Her two terms were some kind of punishment for the whole of the nation in which she looted the already poor and pitiable pakistanis with both hands. Since her return from exile and sometime before that she had been making strange comments like that if she was in power 9/11 would not have taken place. Hmmmm ..... a lady who could not save her brother from being killed ruthlessly by her husband in her own term as PM how could have she saved the world from such a disaster. She also claimed that only she was capable enough to save the world from the horrors of Talibanisation but she only failed to mention that it was she who was responsible for the birth of Talibans and also it was her interior minister who reffered to Talibans as his boys. Only reason she gave for her failures during her two terms was that intelligence agencies were not letting her do her job. So if she was not capable of handling the ISI and MI then she should have stayed away from politics afterwards rather than making lame excuses and still campaining to be prime minister for third time ( A prime minister who would have again laid the blame on agencies for her incompetency). She was a champion of democracy who felt no shame in bequeathing a political party to her son and husband (Mr 10 %) well this is something that signifies in what kind of democracy she and her father believed in. Krashid truly enlightend us by telling that her father took control of diminished pakistan. Well he was one of those who were responsible for the "Diminished Pakistan". He along with Yahya were the ones who refused to hand over the power to Shiekh Mujeeb although he had almost double the parliamentry seats(160 to be exact whereas Mr Bhutto's party had won 81 NA seats). As a true democratic leader he refused to let those people form the Governemt in center who had the majority. His slogans like "Udher tum idher Hum" and threats of breaking the legs of those who went to Dhaka havnt been forgotten by many. Since the inception of PPP only the Bhutto's have been Lucky enough to grace the throne of this party. Benazir Bhutto nominated her husband as party chairman in her will as if it was not a political party rather her personal property. and her husband nominated his 19 year old son about whom he said that nobody should ask him any questions directly as he was at tender age (well he has credentials to be the chairman of the party but the young lad is not able to answer questions of journalist due to his immaturity ....hmmmm). Truth is he is not chairman rather he is monarch because political leaders are choosen on thier abilities not the will of their dead mothers(or fathers). PPP leadership can go to any extent to keep the power. They can even change their caste just to gather sympathies and to be the nominal chairperson as Bilawal who was once a Zardari is now a Bhutto. Now we have a co-chairperson of PPP in the form of Mr Asif Zardari better known as Mr ten percent who might be the next premier . So it is chance for him to improve on his past record and be Mr twenty percent.

If the CIA books are opened, you'd see just how many suicide bombings they have financed using fronts, and how many families of suicide bombers are indirectly on their payrolls. Isn't it their own pet theory that "suicide bombers" can be bought?

Asadi,

I agree with ur basic point: The US contols the levers of power in Pakistan.

Yeah, even Benazir shuffled to the place where she will be an acceptable alternative to the US than she's to Pakistanis. Same goes for Musharraf. Shariff didnt toe the US line completely and he's not endorsed by the US yet.

The moot point is: Nobody can rule Pakistan without getting endorsement from America.

P.S: I cant side with u on ur tirade against Dr. Gill. Sorry bro. :(

I am no supporter of BB but the ZAB was a different story altogether. Mujib had no representation in the West and his refusal to discuss any power sharing in this abnormal setup of the East/West Pakistan that was setup for failure from the very beginning should have prompted anyone to try to save the union by a more reasonable setup of power sharing that would be more democratic in the Western (idhar hum) and Eastern (Udhar tum) context. The guy ZAB singlehandedly started a public movement in the Western part (not marred by ethnicity) as a result of which the toiling masses of the West realized their self worth and demanded their rights, a politics that was not built around ethnicity or theology but later thanks to the legacy of Pakistan, the BS of MAJ, got marred into the same direction. There is one person that Pakistan can feel proud of who reached the corridors of power, in its entire history and that is the person of the ZAB. Baseless BS like that by Samikhan does nothing to take away from his achievements.

There is a much broader picture which is so clear that nobody seems to be seeing it!

It has very little to do with the fact that BB got murdered and her son got to "inherit her party".

It has something to do with the fact that western reporters are flying into Pakistan and finding nothing to report on! It has something to do with the fact that two days after her death many Pakistanis are saying .... "OK, we feel sad but BB was no democrat herself".

It has to do with the fact that a huge ... huge proportion of the Pakistani middle class have come to know that the Pakistani army works more for US interests than for Pakistan. It has to do with the fact that this group of people are getting confident about being able to rule themselves. It has to do with the fact that, BB or no BB ... elections or no elections, this group will not let the movement for democracy die.

In the days to come you will see NS, Fazloo etc. run around confused like head-less chicken. But do keep your focus on the lawyers, students and yes AA (in prison) and IK. And yes, they most probably won't be talking to CNN in the comming days.

I have the feeling, that this time it is very different. And VRV, you say : "Nobody can rule Pakistan without getting endorsement from America." I disagree. There is a change and I see it clearly.

According to my brother-in-law BB avoided working class Pakistanis in London like a plague but, others like khar were always collecting funds to fight ZIA.

democracy is the best revenge
revenge is a dish best served cold

which is why pureland has no democracy...

they pulled the dish out of the freezer in 1947 and they're waiting for the it to thaw out.

GT,

We didnt see u for a while. Welcome back.

As for the US endorsement, they create hype to dethrone anybody they dont like/want and conversely they prop up any moron as long as he serves the American interests (eg. Honsi Mubarak, Musharraf).

Case in point is Sadam Hussain. The humbug abt WMDs and all the that is a figment of imagination & they sacked CIA guy for that.

They almost did another Iraq on Syria but looking at what happened in Iraq they backed out. Samething goes for Iran.


There are 2 exceptions.

1. Cuba
2. North Korea

My guess is that they dont want to touch Cuba coz it's Christian majority country. They wont bomb Cuba the way they bombed Iraq.

North Korea wud remain a living specimen/example of communist tyranny and impoverihsment of ppl under such regime. Alternatively, NK didnt have any oil/gold reserves. Seconldy Americans can have their bases in South Korea, Japan/Okinawa and elsewhere in the Pacific Ocean (Japan had cap on defence spending since WWII, which is relaxed of late). It generates a lot of money for them.

Keeping N Korea therefore serves:

a. worst specimen for everybody to see so that ppl abhor communism

b. US can remain control of the whole region

c. Make money outta defence supplies

else

I dont see why they let this monster Kim Jong Il to continue as the Head of N Korea.

GT writes "I have the feeling, that this time it is very different. And VRV, you say : "Nobody can rule Pakistan without getting endorsement from America." I disagree. There is a change and I see it clearly."

The change is in its infancy, and as long as the military in Pakistan calls the shots the statement about endorsement from America will hold true. The change however is there, itself a consequence of US dealings with the Pakistan Army and how its top commander after being given power becomes confused after a while and starts behaving in an "uppity" fashion, that is why you will see a US occupation of the Western parts in the near future.

#36 Posted by GT on December 31, 2007 10:54:42 am


huge proportion of the Pakistani middle class have come to know that the Pakistani army works more for US interests than for Pakistan.


They knew it before...It's not like they woke up one day and took a smart pill..they knew it but they were ok with it as long as being in the US camp meant getting $$ and F-16s to fight the hindooos and take indian kashmir..

B4 Kiyani was appointed COAS Mush got to get green signal from the US. So, endorsement holds.......

#35 Posted by masadi on December 31, 2007 10:23:33 am


Mujib had no representation in the West


But if a west paki leader had no representation in the East, you'd be ok with him being the ruler of the whole of pureland...right?

I am sorry Gill sahib,
This is not your best effort. If you are from Pakistan, you don't need Dalrymple or any one else to extensively quote from. The whole article as RAS pointed out is all about Dalrymple and a few lines from you.

Even when you quote someone else, it is your responsibility to fact check the quote. The PPP was not founded in 1963. A little google would have helped you here.

There are some genuine reasons for continuing the control in the Family. Pakistan is no England or Europe that all parties should follow the pristine and pure form of democracy or they are not allowed to function.

Now if you were a knowledgeable political commentator, you would have weighed all the reasons against your contentions here.

I hope you can post the other pov as you see it, so we understand your knowledge of the events and not of Dalrymple.

Thanks.
PS. My post is by no means endorsement of what the PPP did but I think I understand the reasons behind Bilawal accession.
I would like you make the case so we know what your understanding is of the PPP pov in this whole saga.

arjun,

Ok, then lets say that now it (US intereference) is a pain.

VRV, masadi;

I will not get into a debate right now about the efficacy of US "control over the world". To a large extent, this so called "control" is usually handed over (though at times it is snatched as in the case of Iraq). Refusal to hand over control is the first step. And that is happening in Pakistan (you may want to see BB's murder in this light). As a result, it seems to me that, the Americans are quite confused. This is the time .... the lawyers and the students need to come out on the streets again.

Gill Sahib,

You are a great writer but this article leaves something more to be desired. Usually your analyses are well thought out and quite well developed, but here you leave us wondering whether you yourself knew the main idea behind this article.

As HP pointed out this article seems rehashing on William Dalrymple's article. I tend to agree with him, although I have faith that you should be back full force in your next article.

As far as Bilawal is concerned, I feel bad for the poor kid. Its a very heavy responsibility for his young shoulders. I am sure the same people who assassinated his mother would love to get their hands on him.

I see the future as an ominous one for him. Nothing good will come out of him entering this dark abyss of Pakistani politics. May Allah protect this child, and keep him safe.

Its one thing to lose your mother, but another to be made the sacrificial animal to assuage the political ambitions of his father.

God help him.

#45 Posted by GT on December 31, 2007 11:42:52 am

Are bhai...your problem is unrealistic expectations brought about by self-delusion..

even after 9/11, pakis deluded themselves into thinking that they had signed on to the WoT of their own volition. Starting at this point, some people even told us that pureland would now have Uncle Sam's wind in her sails and would soon be sailing to "kashmir banega pakiland" island..they told us that pakiland was now the talk of the town and when bush visited pakiland, he'd be so beholden to pakis that he'd stop for every tongawalla. yup..and we were told wearing a t-shirt with a paki flag would keep us safe in the US.

Now when reality strikes, as it always does, you claim to be shocked at US behavior...

GT:

I do not claim to be a very knowledgeable politician but I look around critically to see what is happening in the political arena. I am neither pro “a certain political party” nor am I against “another.” In my view all the political parties have failed to promote democracy in Pakistan. See my earlier article “Political Quandary in Pakistan.”

Only a few have commented on my point of view that a political party needs to become democratic within its own ranks and files before it can serve the bigger cause of nation-wide democracy.

You wrote in your PS “..I think I understand the reasons behind Bilawal accession” but you did not share those reasons in your post. Doesn’t PPP have any other mature “non-Bhutto” politician to head the party after BB? Is PPP so bereft of good politicians? Why PPP does have to be dynastic? Why is it improper to criticize the dynastic make-up of the party?

We, politicians and non-politicians, need to criticize the policies and structure of the political parties who seek to rule us; if we don’t, there is no hope for improvement. You and others got entangled in my quotes from Dalrymple (who by the way wrote a very informative article) but ignored the central part of my article.

Be well,

Mohammad Gill

rf: i am not interested in exchanging personal attacks (even one couched in fake respectfullness). have a good day.

HP #44 You say "There are some genuine reasons for continuing the control in the Family.", but the reasons you provide ("Pakistan is no England or Europe that all parties should follow the pristine and pure form of democracy or they are not allowed to function.") is no reason. It is like saying that one should not call for political progress in Pakistan because Pakistan is no England or Europe.

The only "reason" I have seen so far is that without the Bhutto name PPP would lose votes - rest assured it is not the Bhutto name, but the PPP claims to be the voice of the poor, that generated support for it.

If political parties dont practice what they preach (i.e. democracy), then they are as fake as musharraf's claim to represent the "supreme national interest". Of course any step away from military rule is a good one - but it would have been much better for Pakistan and for PPP's future and even for the Bhutto family itself if Zardari had not made this power grab. But then...no one accused Pakistan's political leadership of being able to see beyond its nose.

Shoresahib: I suggest you save your tears for someone more in need of them than the "Bilawal kid" - this man has the money and the connections needed.

I suggest you think of the 30 other people who died that day - I heard a 5 year old child of a poor man who was also killed in the explosion join her widowed mother in professing loyalty to the party. No doubt the mother was doing this in hopes of some material support from the party now that she and her children have to worry about their next meal. That is the reality that more than a hundred million Pakistanis face every day. That is what is really heart-breaking.

Gill sahab very true depiction of the reality. But that exonerates the fundamentalists, but how come they wish to set the parliament and constitution right when in their educational dens they seek to banish the English curriculum, which is assumed to be imported?
Moreover, Bhutto was the one to cap the 22 industrialist families and showed them the door, their investment flew out of Pakistan along with brain drain which continue till date. But ignorance is what PPP survives on. And people like Naheed Khan too have to survive somehow or the other.

gill sahib,

i admire your sentiments and you have have full support .... "Their parties should be rid of dynastic control (like PPP) and democratized. Otherwise, Pakistan’s Constitution should not permit them to contest elections."

....lead on, i am right behind you ......sorry, i mis-spoke ..... actually i am right behind tahmed ...

... tu chal mein aya !

Why target PPP only, how about MQM? Is it not know to be a terrorist organization. MQM is the one that should be banned and not PPP.

Chowk Management, Staff and Chowk Members:

Wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year.

Mohammad Gill

Well it all makes perfect sense doesn't it Gill Saheb, A Bilawal crying on the dais begging for tears that his mother was assassinated is more feasible than a deserving Amin Fahim or Aitzaz Ahsan, isn't it? BB's death is a horrific incident, but people should now really look beyond all that and try to understand the politics the PPP is practicing in the guise of mourning. Good critique Mr. Gill... kudos

tahmed writes "The only "reason" I have seen so far is that without the Bhutto name PPP would lose votes - rest assured it is not the Bhutto name, but the PPP claims to be the voice of the poor, that generated support for it."

He shamelessly copies straight from my post on the other thread regarding "voice of the poor" part but is ignorant not to see the difference. The support for ZAB was because of "voice of the poor"- the support for BB was because of the ZAB. Now if there was a structure in place then when the charismatic leader went, so would the name recognition and the "voice of the people" would remain, but no such structure existed, it existed in the person of the ZAB alone, so as expected the Bhutto name is what matters now, it is being manipulated by Zardari who has hijacked the party on behalf of the US/Pak Army and their related and assorted scavengers...

This may not have escaped from any reader's/viewer's notice that the international media is strictly linking the extremists with the murder of BB. However, it is clearly stated by Mr Zardari that his wife confided in Mark Seigel about the potential threat and in his press breifing, he also drew attention towards Q League. In the light of his statement, is it not obvious that it has become our habit to get away with everything by blaming Al Qaeda, who happens to offer the best blanket for all sorts of criminals. It remains a question whether there is some specialised network as Al Qaeda. But this blame game has lost its credibility now.
It is already established that the PPP never trusted the interim set-up and Musharraf in anyway, then is it not strange to blame the entire security lapse on the government. Where were the guards of PPP. There were hardly ten of the Jaan Nisars around her. One cannot ask an enemy for protection. The authorities must probe into the intentions of the party member in charge of the security of BB. There is another element in light, that the PPP is likely to request a foreign team of experts for investigation, but, is it not already establised that post 9/11, the efficiency and skills of Pakistani agencies have excelled that of the Western counterparts, the West has shown full confidence in our agencies for support in war against terror. The so-called responsible media of the West is strangely not raising such issues.

Gill writes "Wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year."

I wish you a year where you use your mind and instead of mass producing banal, meaningless articles that rehash in prompter style, other articles, you produce some quality articles...which is asking for too much so I keep my fingers crossed.

Leena " is it not obvious that it has become our habit to get away with everything by blaming Al Qaeda, who happens to offer the best blanket for all sorts of criminals..."

This disease was caught via intercourse with the US and its WOT, where everything from bird flu to Hillary Clinton's erratic bowel movements are blamed on Al Qaeda, and countries attacked and destroyed as a consequence. If it were the early 1980s, BBs assassination would be blamed on the godless Soviets and never the pious freedom loving and freedom fighting Mujahideen....

#16 krashid: What has mqm done other than "survive" and rant hollow slogans about the "feudal/industrialist alliance"? Let me count for you:

1. Kill peaceful protestors on May 12.
2. Promote ethnic rifts in karachi.
3. Promote violence against political opponents.
4. Support a military dictatorship while ridiculing Pakistani civil society that has bravely stood up.

I would be much obliged if you could tell me what I am missing above. If you cant do that, then it seems to me that you need to get your basis straight and look through the eyes of a democrat.

The roots of MQM start from its student politics. APMSO. At that time all major student parties were either associated with National, Regional Political parties or Foreign powers.
It started with rights of Mohajir or Urdu speaking. From the very beginning out of necessity against Jamate-Islami and its student wing, it has allied itself with progressive anf leftist forces.
Later on MQM came into being and took strength in 1986. Till that time apart from fringe regional parties, Karachi always had political parties with National presence and outlook like Peoples Party, Jamate Islami, JamiateUlamae Islam etc. And it was mainly rightist parties which had hold in Karachi.
Somehow MQM appealed to the young generation (and not the old) and reasons can be discussed. And establishment realizing this in the beginning gave support to it. At the very beginning MQM was doing ethnic politics. Later on with time and analysis they realized that the problems facing the youth and poor people of Mohajir is similar to the people in other parts of country, they changed their name and slogan to Muttahida. In this process party got split. Mohajir Qaumi Movement which is still doing Qaumiat politics and does not enjoy much support and Muttahida Qaumi Movement.
Irony is that the establishment joined hands with Mohajir Qaumi Movement whose politics is still based on Mohajir Qaumiat to crush Muttahida Qaumi Movement which has changed its path to a National outlook.
As far as supporting Musharraf is not based on ethnicity. MQM has allied itself based on its politics with Benazir, Nawaz Sharif etc.
Inspite of being part of Government MQM has always took stand for the rights of people for example it even threatened to quit Government if Army action is not stopped in Baluchistan.
As far as CJ Fiasco of March 12 is concerned, I am ambivalent. CJ was coming to Karachi bar with his own philosophy and own tirade against Government and there are no two opinions on this. MQM is and was responsible for law and order situation in Karachi. From my student days I know it very well that first priority of any administration is to keep law and order.
Now to your questions.
1- Kill peaceful protestors on March 12. MQM claims that it is other way round.
2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi. As the above history suggest MQM started as ethnic party, but later changed its direction. In fact administration supported the party based on Mohajir Qaumiat against Muttahida which changed its direction. And MQM is composed of Non Mohajirs as well as Mohajirs.
3- Promote violence against political opponents. When APMSO started its politics it was targeted and its workers were beaten badly. It from the very beginning had to fight the Jamiat terrorism. Later on since it has changed its name and direction, violence is against MQM and thousands of its workers havers have been killed in the name of EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING.
4- Supporting a military dictatorship, while ridiculing Pakistan civil society. Where was Pakistan civil society when there was operation in Sind and Baluchistan against the people by the Army. MQM always supported and took stand for those people, whether they were part of Government or not. While so called flag bearer of civil society were taking oath on PCO bypassing the principled Supreme court judges and making sure their children get a good future bypassing the law.
If you want to discuss further on any points, I will be most open.

{"Those who are seeking to establish democracy should begin to establish it at the grass roots. The political parties which seek to contest elections must abide by some fundamental requirements. Their parties should be rid of dynastic control (like PPP) and democratized. ... Otherwise, a government of an undemocratic party is as bad, if not worse, than the government of an army dictator."}

Gill Sahib,
Very good point! This is the type of stuff that our blind, deaf, dumb, and mute "Demo Cracy, Demo Cracy" chanting ethnic bigots fail to consider. They just want people to vote and certify another Vadera or Country Bumpkin to head our country.

#54 root {"Why target PPP only, how about MQM? Is it not know to be a terrorist organization. MQM is the one that should be banned and not PPP."}

Root,
Maybe you have not been watching the destruction of Pakistan at the hands of PPP workers, supporters, and ordinary goons. Did Arjun post something about Rs. 300 billion as an estimate? Forget about the loss of life - Pakistan can always afford losing people (our lives are cheap), but all that money is going to add up to real value sooner or later.

If I were the Government of Pakistan, I would jail every one of the PPP leaders and not release those bastards until they compensate all the victims of their party's senseless rioting.

#25 rf786 {"I believe your slip is showing when u show such one-sided, prejudicial view of history.... Here we go again, since Musharraf is a mutarwa he does not deserve your generosity. Surely u wud have some evidence to back these claims of yours, otherwise people would reserve the right to call you a liar. ... admit it you are a hypocrite who pretends to honor democracy but are just a plain old bigot."}

Bismillah Bhai,
Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court. Maybe a 2000 sq yd plot here and there for guarding our borders just like the other ghazis, but no billions in 10% kickbacks or siphoned aid dollars. Thank you for trying to balance the blame scale.

Salim_chauhan,
Maybe you also did not watch what MQM did in May of 2007. How many people were killed by them and did any one of them was brought to justice? MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. Do you know what much democratic MQM is? Why only blame PPP only?

Salim_Chuahan:

"Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court."

For the faujis, Pakistan is their own Swiss Bank and fiefdom, so why would they need to stash away their money elsewhere and buy up palaces in far-away lands?

(MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. )

How so? How many people have MQM killed? How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest, how many in B'stan and NWFP in the ZAB Govt. And how many Mojos in Karachi by BB- N Babur combine, and how many killed by Talibs spawned by BB's 2nd Regime.

Regards

Salim-Chauhan (61), tahmed32, and hamidm2:

Guys, thank you for focusing on the raison d'etre of the article.

Mohammad Gill

#66 Posted by majumdar on January 1, 2008 3:34:58 am


How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest


Why are you bringing up the killing of a few hundred thousand people? Are you a muslim hating, pakistan hating indian hater or something?

#60 krashid: I wish what you say about mqm being non-ethnic were true. But I dont see how can say that in the face of evidence to the contrary over a period of decades. The fact is that while mqm leaders understand that they can never be a significant political force at the national level without support from the rest of Pakistan, they have proved emotionally incapable of thinking outside narrow ethnic boundries. They are thus doomed to playing a negative and divisive role in Pakistan politics.

On your specific responses:

1. Killing of peaceful protestors on March 12.
You say: MQM claims that it is other way round.
My Response: You know what mqm claims is not true, so it is obvious that you merely gloss over this fact merely to avoid agreeing on this point of fact. All you achieve, though, is undermine your own credibility as an objective observer. The Chief Justice had spoken before peaceful demonstrators for democracy in other cities in Pakistan, and there was no reason to believe that things would be otherwise in Karachi. The Chief Justice was speaking out against military dictatorship, not against mqm or any other political party.

2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi.
You say: As the above history suggest MQM started as ethnic party, but later changed its direction. In fact administration supported the party based on Mohajir Qaumiat against Muttahida which changed its direction. And MQM is composed of Non Mohajirs as well as Mohajirs.
My Response: While mqm tried to change direction, it has failed to do so. Just changing the name means nothing. And its betrayal of the democracy movement and support for musharraf can only be understood based on its ethnic mindset I referred to above, since there is no other obvious reason for a mqm to have supported musharraf's attempts to stay on as military ruler. This again points to the short-sighted mindset of mqm leaders who failed to recognize that musharraf owes his power to the military, and military rule is ultimately harmful to all Pakistanis regardless of ethnicity.

3- Promote violence against political opponents.
You say: When APMSO started its politics it was targeted and its workers were beaten badly. It from the very beginning had to fight the Jamiat terrorism. Later on since it has changed its name and direction, violence is against MQM and thousands of its workers havers have been killed in the name of EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING.
My response: The killings of May 12, and the fact that the murderers of May 12 walk free without any mqm leader calling for their arrest, demonstrate otherwise.

4- Supporting a military dictatorship, while ridiculing Pakistan civil society.
Your response: Where was Pakistan civil society when there was operation in Sind and Baluchistan against the people by the Army. MQM always supported and took stand for those people, whether they were part of Government or not. While so called flag bearer of civil society were taking oath on PCO bypassing the principled Supreme court judges and making sure their children get a good future bypassing the law.

My response: In writing the above, you provide a "rationale" for opposing the civil society of Pakistan. Thus contradicting your own claims above that mqm is no longer an ethnic party. Nor is this "rationale" - even if it were fair and objective - is not enough to support the betrayal of Pakistan by mqm during its darkest hours.

TAhmed:
On your point1
{On May 12, 2000, Pakistan's Supreme Court unanimously validated the October 1999 coup}

{Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry was made a "non functional Chief Justice" on March 9, 2007. In so acting, President Pervez Musharraf invoked two main clauses of the Constitution of Pakistan.}
{On 12 March 2007, lawyers across Pakistan began boycotting all court procedures in protest against the suspension. In the capital Islamabad, and in other cities such as Lahore, Karachi and Quetta, hundreds of lawyers dressed in black suits attended rallies, condemning the suspension as unconstitutional.}
{According to Khairi, Hussein Chaudhry acquitted two people -- Eid Gul and Shahzad Gul -- who were sentenced to life imprisonment by a session judge. The complainant has maintained that the judge took a bribe in the case.}
{This constitutional amendment has paved the way for a large number of lawyers and private citizens coming forward to lodge their private complaints against the judges of the Superior Judiciary," said a senior lawyer.}
{According to media reports and SC sources, three members on the five-member highest judicial panel in the country face references pending against them on charges ranging from misconduct, misuse of authority, corruption and embezzlement. The fourth has a personal grouse against Justice Iftikhar for having occupied his residence in Karachi while the presiding judge has a conflict of interest problem.}
{Arbab has said that he would appear before the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) if asked to give a statement. A number of complaints have been placed on record by the Sindh province concerning the conduct of the suspended chief justice}
To be continued

The district and sessions judges who were sidelined by the then Lahore High Court Chief Justice Falak Sher on account of their involvement in financial irregularities
{ oath taken by the judges under Provisional Constitutional Order and in view of recent verdicts upholding various orders and acts of the present military regime}
To be continued

Riots disrupt Karachi calm: •34 killed, 140 injured •rivals trade allegations.
The utter failure of the Sindh government and the law-enforcers to maintain law and order made the city hostage to political workers. However, Adviser to the Sindh Chief Minister on Home Affairs Waseem Akhtar blamed the chief justice for a breakdown in law and order and deaths in incidents of violence.
{Despite the heavy deployment of law-enforcement agencies across the city as claimed by the police, they suddenly disappeared from the troubled spots allowing the rival groups to trade fire with each other, resulting in deaths and injuries to dozens of people.}
{DIG Operations Mushtaq Shah said that 2,000 additional police personnel were deployed along Sharea Faisal. “Police acted as a buffer between the rival groups; otherwise the casualties would have been much higher,” he added
{Sporadic incidents of violence started early in the morning as a man, belonging to a religious group, was gunned down in Landhi while people preparing to receive the Chief Justice were fired upon. Similarly, three policemen and seven other people were wounded in clashes between rival political party workers at Abdullah College and two other policemen were wounded in SITE}
(Police said participants of the opposition rally attempted to set fire to at least four petrol pumps on Sharea Faisal following the incidents of firing by the rivals}
{The Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) said in a statement that its 10 activists were among those who lost their lives on Saturday while PPP said its 15 party workers were killed in attacks on the rally}
All news from Dawn 13th March
To be continued.

Re: # 63

Salim Sahib,

Pleasure is all mine. Making a mockery of democracy is a pertinent title for all the bigots on this forum who pretend to uphold highest standards of democracy but in actuality behave practice the worst kind of hypocrisy.

The Sharifs and the great white hope Imran Khan have openly practiced Punjabi/Northern politics at the expense of the Southern populations yet the hypocrites fail to acknowledge and condemn these bigots simply because they themselves are hypocrites.

MQM is what it is, like it or not they are here to stay. To their credit they do not hide behind some fake rhetoric nor do they cater to the rich and famous. Yet they are not suitable for these jackasses, so I say girthee huwee diwaron ko aik dhaka aur do...

krashid #72 It is impossible to understand your point if you simply cut and paste some news item. Instead, could you please simply say briefly why you disagree on item 1 (to which it seems your 3 posts below relate) if you still continue to disagree on what I think is a simple factual matter?

And why is it so important to defend a political party as you are doing for the mqm? Why is it so important to provide legal cover (as you seem to be doing) to a military coup? If you really care about Pakistan, or even about one community of people within Pakistan - that is fine. But then, it is better to identify these and see what is the best way to serve this interest. A political party is a means to and end (i.e. the welfare of the community one cares about), not an end in itself. I would urge you to re-think your views in keeping this in mind - and then perhaps you will see why the struggle for democracy in Pakistan is ultimately in everyone interests - the mohajir community in Pakistan, Pakistan as a nation, and indeed the entire region and the rest of the world as well.

Looking at the level bad blood and vitriol among various major enthnic groups in pakiland - it's probably better for you guys to just split up - enough with this pakiland experiement already...separate sindh, punjab, baloch... and give out NWFP to afgans... :)

go the checkoslovakia way - peacefully and cordially - before it's too late and too many people die... too many people are dead already...

Just make sure you allocate a patch of land somewhere for mohajirs... I don't want these people to turn around and knock at our door... :)

rf786 #63 {"The Sharifs and the great white hope Imran Khan have openly practiced Punjabi/Northern politics at the expense of the Southern populations yet the hypocrites fail to acknowledge and condemn these bigots simply because they themselves are hypocrites. ...MQM is what it is, like it or not they are here to stay. To their credit they do not hide behind some fake rhetoric nor do they cater to the rich and famous. Yet they are not suitable for these jackasses, so I say girthee huwee diwaron ko aik dhaka aur do..."}

Bismillah Bhai,
I agree with you completely. These bigots use "democracy" as a cover for oppression and a return to the horrible years of BB I, NS I, BB II, and NS II. Did you notice that all the chest-beating mourners of May 12 are hypocritically silent at the behavior of PPP goons and the loss of life and catastrophic destruction of Pakistan that they have inflicted?

TAhmed:
Point 1 is killing of peaceful preotestors. I just put the news. As reported. I am not MQM.

2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi.
{To further the programme of national development and a nation-wide campaign against feudal domination, Mohajir Quami Movement was formally transformed into Muttahida Quami Movement on 26 July 1997}
PREAMBLE:
MQM is the only political party of Pakistan which represents and comprises of
working, middle class and poor masses of the country who are presently down
tr