Islam as a political weapon in Pakistan

#240 Posted by arjun_2,

Even though it is beneath my dignity to respond to you, was the white phosphorous really effective?

Umme-Hassan is still there, though under house-arrest. Maulana Abdul Aziz is still there, though in jail. Swat blew up on their calling, as did Waziristan. More soldiers of the Pakistan Army have been killed than the Mujahideen in Lal Masjid.

I don't need a response, so desist from that. I don't like conversing with hindoos ... the ultimate scum of the earth.

Re: # 258

Kaal:

Yes, I agree that Pavo Sahib brings a unique and thought provoking perspective to Chowk. He indeed provokes my thoughts.

Re: # 256

Pavo Sahib:

"...i have admired the marhatta guerrilla warriors..."

The issue is not of admiration. You are an expert in military science, I am not. Still to me "guerilla warriors" seem very different "suicide bomber". At the very least "guerilla warriors" fight for the cause with a hope to win and enjoy the fruits.

Suicide bomber has no such hope.

Re: # 257

Pavo sahib:

"...there was no islamic empire..."

"Empire" is a new construct you have used. Earlier you had used "Superpower" and I defined Superpower, not Empire. Superpower is much different than Empire.

Re: # 260 i think religion is quite irrational.india and pakistan have been destroyed by it.just see how the simple man was manipulated by both hindu and muslim politicians from 1858 to 1947

pavo #258, perhaps the confusion arises because to many in UP or Punjab any sheet of paper with arabic letters printed on it becomes an Islamic document, and near-sacred.

anil sahib.thanks for your counselling sir.u have ur ideas and i have mine. diversity is good.thank God we are not in the fight.we enjoy the luxury of analysing suicide bombers from a distance.

anil ji, pavo is a completely different sort of person. To my recollection, we have never had anyone of his views (or depth of knowledge) on chowk before....

there was no islamic empire.there was an arab empire or a turk empire.ottomans killed muslims .arabs killed muslims.these are all subjective assertions.what was arab empire a circus of the hashmids conspiring against abbasids.aliids against muawiya

as u must have noticed i have admired the marhatta guerrilla warriors and th sikhs for destroying the mughals.they were heroes because they fought against the larger and stronger forces.

i am not for the atlantic alliance led by USA.

rest i am not really interested in your assertion that suicide bombing is good or bad.its a method , a tactic.

Re: # 244

Pavo sahib:

"...I respect anyone that opposes any superpower whether that man is Muslim or an Athiest...."

Islam too, at one time was a superpower, do you support those who oppose it too?

Superpower is a state achieved by a society. It is based on its competitive advantages successfully derived through accumulation of assets which translate more on perceived future value, and less on current value. Ability to realize current gains from future value creates super power state.

In the past, as in the case of Islam, this asset was ideology and army increasing army of followers. They kept building on this advantage. At that time no one had this advantage. This principle is applicable in all areas, and therefore Superpower in IT, Superpower in Oil to Economic Superpower etc.

Assets that transform a society into a Superpower have constantly changed over the history of human civilization.

I do not believe suicide bombing is an asset that can make anyone a superpower or destroy a superpower. Romanticizing it in terms of David and Goliath foolishly fuels this dastardly act. Such acts are not even agents of change, as they are reactionary at best.

in #253 i meant #252, not #250. sorry.

#251 if you are interested in the welfare of the afghan and pathan people, you should be interested in what the taliban want. Simply praising their martial qualities (a meaningless issue, as i have tried to explain in #250 e.g.) is not enough.

Calling the NATO forces "invaders" is neither factual (as you should know, since we all know the events that led up to this "invasion") nor helpful to anyone, certainly not the afghan people who are only now recovering from the ill effects of Zia's brand of "islam" foisted on them by the taliban.

#250 Amin sahib. The tamil tigers are also good fighters like the taliban. so were the mukti bahini. the viet cong. the kenyan mau mau. the chinese (remember the long march?).

My point is that you give too much significance to someone calling the taliban "good fighters". It is in human nature (as it is in the nature of wildcats and sparrows and all living creatures) to be "good fighters" when they feel cornered.

The question that is significant is this: What is it that the taliban are fighting for? And clearly they are fighting for nothing more than their "right" to keep their society backward while flattering themselves with their supposed "martial" qualities - while the rest of humanity races forward in education and in building democratic societies.

anyhow Mr Ahmad I am not really interested in what they want.The important thing is that they are resisting the invaders.

Re: # 247 facts are not what u think.what you state may not necessarily be a fact . what you state is an opinion and what i state is also an opinion my dear.