Islam as a political weapon in Pakistan

#226 pavocavalry: I heard of a British-Indian army officer who was with the victorious allied army in Italy, and sought an audience with the pope in the Vatican. The pope agreed to the meeting. On meeting the pope, the army officer told him "I wanted to meet you to advise you to convert to Islam while you still have time. Otherwise, dont say on the Judgement Day that no one advised you."

The above used to be related more as a family joke, and I was never sure of its authenticity. Have you heard of this?

#225 Dost Mittar: If you look at the facts dispassionately and objectively, Bose and co. were no different from the collaborators that the Nazis and Japanese found in other communities - groups that came to be personified by the contemptuous title "Quisling" by their countrymen after the Norwegian puppet who joined the Nazis. To Indians goes the honor of being the only people who have proved incapable of seeing beyond their noses and seeing their Quislings as being heroes.

PS: Happy New Year.

#230,

if the homeowner gets a fence, a dog and a gun, the cat won't be able to pull off such brilliant operations..

Those fences, dogs, guns etc are certainly not going to be the people who are experts at shaking bedbugs out of motel mattresses.

#228 Posted by pavocavalry on January 6, 2008 3:06:51 am


i think the USA started firing the first shots from 1989.


really? how so?



at least we have to give credit to whoever did it for breaking he myth that the us mainland


they were only able to do that because the US gave the people visas and the hijackers used the visas to come in and attack people..

there is a very effective alternative...round up and deport every muslim in the US..then we'll see how many "myths" are broken...the reason that isn't done is because, the way things are, the american people won't stand for it..of course, if the jihadis set off a nuke or something, their tolerance level will change dramatically...hello internment camps..

so the "brilliance" of the 9/11 attacks is only like the brilliance of a cat that drinks milk left on the doorstep...if the homeowner gets a fence, a dog and a gun, the cat won't be able to pull off such brilliant operations..

#189 Posted by Ranjit on January 5, 2008 11:09:41 pm


Suicide bombings are the most ineffective weapons used in a conflict.


Suicide bombings only seem effective against forces of democratic government because the people in these countries would not accept their army kicking up the brutalities up a notch.

at some point, the army that is the target of the suicide bombing, will stop caring about collateral damage...

take a look at saddam's army...no suicide bombing problem in iraq...if one nut blew himself up, saddam would have executed his whole village.

the israelis are hurting because the israeli people won't let their army do what needs to be done..kick it up a notch...widespread instead of targeted retribution..

regardless, the facts on the ground are clear...chechniya, kashmir, israel, iraq, afghanistan, sri lanka etc...hmm..all the "occupation forces" are still around...

i think the USA started firing the first shots from 1989.at least we have to give credit to whoever did it for breaking he myth that the us mainland could not be attacked.even if it was mossad !

#176 Posted by pavocavalry on January 5, 2008 9:54:17 pm


first they were after USSR , now against Islam


huh? what about that little incident with the planes flying into buildings?

the Germans did raise an INA type Indian force but research proves that no Indian officer joined it unlike INA in Burma.This force did see some action in Italy.There were many Indian officers prisoners like Tikka Khan and Sahibzada Yakub khan in Italy.Both however made no attempt to escape.Only Yahya did so and succeeded.

fuzair:

It's rare that I disagree with you but here is one instance where I do. While I do not know about the proportion of Punjabis versus the others in the INA, the fact is that all three of the generals appointed by Subhash Bose - Shahnawaz, Sehgal and Dhillon - were Punjabis. The language of the INA was Hindustani.

I think that while the various factors that you mention, namely the bankruptcy and the British soldiers' will to defend the emipire, are certainly true, another factor was most likely that the British were no longer sure of the loyalty of the native sepoy. Whether it was the 1857 mutiny or the Jalianwala Bagh, it was the native soldiers whom the British had always used against the natives.
In this context, I recall a recent delassification of the British documents relating to the second world war. It seems that after the African victory, Germans had captured many Indian soldiers. Subhash Bose had gone to Germany and wanted to raise an Indian Legion to fight against the British. He asked for 100 volunteers from the 2000 or so prisoners to join him, but the response was that all 2000 soldiers to a man offered themselves. It is true that acceptance of the offer meant a release from the prisoner status, but the fact that none of them proved loyal to the British must have been an eye-opener to them. The freedom struggle waged by nationalists of various stripes had meant that the soldier was no longer immune to nationalist feelings and the British could no longer trust them 100 per cent, as was also proved by the INA and the Royal Navy mutiny.

#208 Posted by Ranjit,

Are you saying after the Sunnis ditched Al Qaeda (or whatever you call it), the americans are going to leave Iraq voluntarily and hand it to Sunnis and Shias living happily ever after?

soldiering is not a bad occupation.its bad to brand all ex soldiers as persona non grata.all depends on the man.its all situational.we were in the army for fun not to get promoted.

Re: # 221 what mr gul is stating is correct but discussion is conducted by many gentlemen on this forum like war.they lack civility and want to impose their ideas on everyone.

HP.
Instead of alluding that I am still into romanticism about soldiering do take time out and read Julian Lider, Bernard Brodie, Lawrence Freedman, Margantheu and Michel Howard. Pay special attention to the Sociological cause of war.

Re: # 218 since i am not in active service and while in service even on bad terms with the int guys i cannot comment on this statement.nevertheless in this situation int agencies have many multiple axes of double dealings.i like books , good scotch ,good hasish and the fair sex.this dabbling is a past time.

Re: # 216 you are in the habit of juggling with words to prove every person wrong my dear.

in Vietnam the USA had more than 500,000 troops and about 12 % were killed in total thats about 60,000.In Afghanistan the USA has only 10,000 fighting troops with 20,000 supporting arms and about 11 % have been killed till now.In Vietnam USSR was still active.Here there are hidden Taliban supporters who are not like USSR.In Vietnam the US strategy was to annihilate .In Afghanistan the US strategy is to just occupy the air bases.

Re:pavo#210
"i am not a taliban supporter but they are good fighters."

Sir, I was once discussing with an Indian army officer who had seen action in Kashmir. He told me that the Indian army faced Afghans, Pakistanis and Kashmiris in battle there. The Kashmiris were very easy to neutralize and in fact, they surrendered at the drop of a hat. The Pakistanis were more motivated and fought harder, but the Indian army was able to neutralize them without any problems as well. The Afghans were a different breed. They were ferocious fighters and put a very stiff resistance at first. However, they were very easily bought. The Indian Army would reach out to them via Pashto broadcasts and other backchannels, offering them money and safe passage if they stopped fighting. A lot of them took up those offers. They would put up a pretense of fighting, pocket the money and go back to Pakistan. As a result, the ISI policy of using Afghans from Afghan jihad in Kashmir failed miserably.

The Taliban fight in Afghanistan has less to do with ideology and more to do with the pak intelligence agencies using them to keep the pot boiling, so that pak remains a high value ally to the US.