Shahjahan’s “Moorti” and Other Absurdities in Agra

#214: anil: Like I said, "rednecks" are fine, hard-working Americans whom desi immigrants stereotype as part of the general negative-ness that is part of desi culture. They could teach plenty of desis on chowk a lesson in civilized behavior.

comparing - masadi, the classic desi who comes to chowk to spread his misery and smelly, negative fumes emanating from him - is totally unfair to these fine Americans. So, either tell me honestly if you have ever met a red neck who has been discourteous to you in any way, exhibited racism of the kind that "fair skin" conscious indians and pakistanis exhibit on chowk.

If not, please dont compare masadi to any group of people - rednecks, whitenecks, brownnecks, blacknecks, or any other kind of necks. You should try to stay above this kind of stereotyping of any group of people - you are too smart for that, so leave that to the dimwits on chowk. Hold this loser masadi alone responsible for his lies and hypocrisy on chowk.

Re: # 211

Massaddi Mian:

If I were a Muslim, I would have wanted Islamic Red Necks like you to be impeached and tried.

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#211 Posted by masadi on January 26, 2008 2:43:05 pm

if it helps, I think Zinn sucks too...

tahmed writes "...rubbish like claiming that scientific progress has not benefitted anyone other than the "elite".

There is absolutely no rubbish in that whatsoever, my posts gave ample reasons to back my claims, you just need to look at the uses of "science" in the world today, the sector they are concentrated in i.e. the military that is concerned with destroying and not preserving humanity, and the fact that the condition of the world and its deprivation proves that the so-called enlightenment hope that science would end all of this suffering has proven to be false because it is being misuesd by the elite. You cannot even approach the depth of my thought, throwing out slogans does absolutely nothing to absolve either your dimwitted intellect or the barbarism of your masters...People here aren't fools not to recongnize the fact that you rise up to defend any and every barbarity of the US elite around the globe and deliberately try to mask their interference when it is clear as day, in our affairs and then have the audacity to lie saying you have no problems with what Zinn says when his criticism of this system is almost 100% identical to mine......The only difference is that unlike me he happens to be white and you worship the white man and his shit....

tahmed, you miserable snake come up with some substance and not your usual bs. Zinn considers the so called "city on a hill" and "manifest destiny" to be barbarian anti-people concepts, you support both of those concepts including colonization by the British, you support the wars conducted by the US post WW2, Zinn condemns them., you worship US capitalism, Zinn detests it, you call this system of barbarism "egalitarian and enlightened", Zinn considers it a farce that the people have to continually struggle against. You, super retard are the fool who is a hypocrite. I am not hiding behind any names, my analysis of the Iraq war, intellectually, factually as well as source wise, especially since it linked it to the global structure was much superior to anything Zinn came up with and he acknowledged that much himself. You are dealing with no novice here fool, I don't need to hide behind any names... now go ___ yourself.

Re: # 206

Massaddi Mian:

"...Some Howard Zinn for you:..."

You are no Howard Zinn. You are an Islamic Red Neck. Please do not, do not, hide behind Howard Zinn. Every second word red-neck use is a swear word. You are a confirmed Islamic Red Neck.

You disgrace the beauty of Islam. I do not know why others tolerate an Islamic red-neck among them.

Re: # 206

Massaddi Mian:

You are an Islamic-Red Neck, and HP Mian is your running dog. You write filth about Amin Agha and HP Mian laughs.

Please do not try to hide behind Mills and Zinn. You are naked.

#206 masadi: being the hypocrite that you are, you present Zinn's statement ignoring the fact that I have no problem with what Zinn says.

It is you and your lies and hypocrisy that makes you a scoundrel who is responsible for spreading lies about the US that I have a problem with.

So, like Anil says, dont try to hide behind Zinn, you coward. It is your rubbish that I have a problem with - rubbish like claiming that scientific progress has not benefitted anyone other than the "elite".

Some Howard Zinn for you:

"The treatment of heroes (Columbus) and their victims (the Arawaks) the quiet acceptance of conquest and murder in the name of progress-is only one aspect of a certain approach to history, in which the past is told from the point of view of governments, conquerors, diplomats, leaders. It is as if they, like Columbus, deserve universal acceptance, as if they-the Founding Fathers, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, the leading members of Congress, the famous Justices of the Supreme Court-represent the nation as a whole. The pretense is that there really is such a thing as "the United States," subject to occasional conflicts and quarrels, but fundamentally a community of people with common interests. It is as if there really is a "national interest" represented in the Constitution, in territorial expansion, in the laws passed by Congress, the decisions of the courts, the development of capitalism, the culture of education and the mass media.
"History is the memory of states," wrote Henry Kissinger in his first book, A World Restored, in which he proceeded to tell the history of nineteenth-century Europe from the viewpoint of the leaders of Austria and England, ignoring the millions who suffered from those states men's policies. From his standpoint, the "peace" that Europe had before the French Revolution was "restored" by the diplomacy of a few national leaders.
But for factory workers in England, farmers in France, colored people in Asia and Africa, women and children everywhere except in the upper classes, it was a world of conquest, violence, hunger, exploitation-a world not restored but disintegrated.

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As you can tell he calls BS on the history written by the elite, the so-called founding fathers and the other "heroes", and rather presents the voices of the people as the "real history". Something that is totally alien to tahmed and his unconditional worship and support of the white elite and their shit.

Anil shut up the day you can approach me in making a well reasoned post, that will be the day we can discuss, until then, go __ yourself.

Re: # 204

Massaddi Mian:

You are an Islamic-Red Neck.

Please do not try to hide behind Mills and Zinn. You are naked, and not even an Empror without Clothes. So do not delude. Read what I wrote to you, and if you have courage to be honest and truthful, and can answer poitwise without hurling swear words and filth, please respond also.

tahmed writes " Zinn is a serious historian and his "People's History of the United States", which I am in the middle of reading is clearly fact based and well balanced.

Masadi on the other is a joke with ambitions of being an intellectual "

Zinn was totally anti Iraq war unlike this sorry excuse for a human being tahmed, who was cheerleading for the US invasion forces, even as he used British colonization to "prove" how beneficial it would be. Regarding my book the main theme of which in the start was the Iraq war, Zinn himself acknowledged that it was thoroughly fact based and extremely impressive, an accomplishment that I should be "proud of". That says quite a bit about how highly he valued that writing. He is an out and out socialist who is extremely critical of the role played by the elites in the US right from the landing in North America of the white man to the drawing up of the US constitution to nearly every aspect of the barbarous history of this country. He upholds and respects the people's struggles, as I do, in the history of the US, struggles that were brutally beaten back by an undemocratic system of governance that Zinn criticizes as being totally undemocratic to date....as far as scholarship goes though he cannot hold a light to C. Wright Mills and he knows it....

tahmed writes "I have seen rednecks and dealt with them - and they are more respectful, well-mannered, honest and well-meaning than most desi babus"

Like I have maintained this person worships the "white man and his shit" and rednecks are that "shit" that he worships. He says he has dealt with them as if that is some kind of proof! THese so called "respectful, well mannered" red necks have been lynching African Americans all through the history of this nation, they are out and out retarded as far as intellect goes and total bigots and racists. No desi, even the one begging on the streets in Pakistan will behave in such an ignorant, retarded and downright indecent manner as most rednecks do, just a few days back a couple of these redneck shits were indicted for driving around civil rights marches with nooses (depicting lynching) hanging on the back side of their trucks, they are found in large numbers these redneck shits in the law enforcement i.e police in the US and do unmentioned brutality with people of color and this swine tahmed says they are "well mannered and honest". I hope he gets a chance to REALLY interact with a redneck and then he can share his experience with us if his hand/brain coordination is still intact. I hope and pray to God he has this "interaction" with a redneck that he is so boasting about....

Re: # 199

Tahmed Sahib:

I am in tune with you regarrding invaders. I regard them as agent of change. It is futile to try to eliminate the role invaders play, and continue to play. Not all consequences of their acts are bad. So why the bad actions should be justified or shoved under the rug. That is my issue.

In modern days Knowledge Workers are invading and transforming societies too. My gripe is when a certain group takes it as a dogma about certain "invaders", and refuse to complete picture in their minds before jumping into conclusions.

The fusion created by Muslim arrival (=invasion) and British arrival created what India is today. I am certain most fundamentalist of the hindus realizes he is better off with these infusions. The hatred in their mind blocks them, and their responses are predictable. These arrivals of the past were on foot. New arrival is of technology and is not necessarily on foot. It is creating even newer fusion. This process of change and assimilation is what creates better societies.

#191 Anil
This is not a chauvinistic call in response to the self-proclaimed gravitas of ‘philosopher’ who seems to be anything but …

It seems Muslim or British invaders got upper hand initially by brute force than later by humiliating our ancestors culturally.

Though we also benefited a little bit culturally but they could manipulate and pillage our resources. We can be proud of Taj Mahal today but it is also a monument to what we lost in Nalanda, Takshila.. and thousands of labour who may have lost their lives in building such monuments. Unfortunately brute force is still always accepted as argument whether it is Bush or Maulvis who wield it. Islamic conquests or British colonialism were not only military victories. Astute and machiavellian planners always followed brutes. People like Al Baruni prepared action plan for Muslim rulers. While Macauley’s education has taught us to relegate Hindi and Urdu to less intellectual discourses. Please sample Lord Macaulay’s address to the British Parliament February 2, 1835

“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”

For the military genius of Mohammed, there are many who tried to consolidate militarily won victories by civil codes. In recent times, we have Napoleon, who is said to have written French civil code in the nights while fighting the battles during the day. Mohammed had to invent winged creature, God’s word etc.. to compensate weak executive in vast desert conditions. Islam’s present day attraction probably resides in its simple and easily understandable reward scheme.

anil: and one more thing about "rednecks". I have seen rednecks and dealt with them - and they are more respectful, well-mannered, honest and well-meaning than most desi babus I have seen on chowk. Another proof that college education does not make up for lack of basic training as a child.

So dont insult rednecks by comparing half-brains like masadi and laddu (who at least is seems to be a friendly fellow who is misled by his hindutva ideology) to them.