A History of the Pakistan Army by Brian Cloughley

i am travelling and dont have access to my references,but here is one from an Indian:--

On the Beas controversy, Capt Amarinder Singh, who was Lieut-General Harbaksh Singh’s ADC, has recorded (The Tribune, December 4, 1999) how, following the induction of Pakistan’s 1 Armoured Division into the bridgehead established by them on the Khem Karan flank, Harbaksh refused General Chaudhuri’s order at 2.30 a.m. on the night September 9/10 to withdraw to the line of the Beas. The crisis passed over the next day at Asal Utar where the reorganised 4 Infantry Division and 2 (Independent) Armoured Brigade effectively stalled the Pakistani thrust.

Had Harbaksh followed the Army Chiefs orders, communications to Jammu and Kashmir would have been severed from the rest of India and half of Punjab would now have been with Pakistan, altering the very complexion of the subcontinent’s history.

“Patton’s flop puzzles Army Chief” The Statesman (Sept, 26 1965) establishes that the Army Chief was not in tune with the situation on the Khem Karan front and did indeed get unduly alarmed. It was only because of Lieut-Gen Harbaksh Singh, the Western Army Commander, that the day was saved for India. Sandwiched as he was between a “hot-air” Chief and some “paper tiger” subordinates, Harbaksh led front and inspired his men in battle. Those who dithered in the face of the enemy, Harbaksh did not hesitate to sack. The Tribune (September 22, 1965) gave a run-down on Harbaksh who was “literally always on the move”, inspiring from the front.

It has been rightly said that war is too serious a business to be left to the Generals. It would, however, be wrong to brand all Generals as incompetent. There have been many outstanding Generals like Slim and Eisenhower, who demonstrated faculties and statesmanship of a high order. In India we have had men like Harbaksh, Manekshaw and Sinha, the last of which was prevented from being elevated to the post of Chief because his intellect and integrity made bureaucrats uncomfortable.

BIMAL BHATIA
Panchkula

there is general agreement in both indian and pakistani military quarters that had the pakistani 1st armoured division offensive opposite khem karan succeeded indian army would have been really knocked down at the strategic level.this was agreed by a person no less than indian western command chief harbaksh singh.the pakis had a 7 to 1 superiority here but failed due to sheer incompetence.

similarly it was agreed that if the indian ist armoured div offensive oposite chawinda had succeeded pakistan would have lost the war.here too the indians had a huge 5 to 1 superiority in first four days of the offensive but failed due to incompetence of commander indian 1st armoured div KK Singh.

Re:HP#97
"The problem with the 65 war was that their was no goal that the Pakistan set before they prepared for the war."

HP, you have hit the nail on the head. Its not just in 1965, but in all of its existence, Pakistan has never been able to formulate its military goal with respect to its rivalry with India.

The muslim invaders of the past had a simple goal - conquer India and establish their rule from Delhi. Pakistanis could never embrace such a goal since it would ironically undo partition and create a common country, albeit under muslim rule. Essentially it would go against its ideology of TNT. The other goal could be to somehow grab Kashmir from India and nothing else besides Kashmir. However, that is impossible since any such war (such as in 1965 and 71) would spill into Punjab, Rajasthan and other sectors which could lead to territorial loss for either side. In such a case, if India won, Pakistan would lose territory in a big way. If Pakistan won, partition would get undone again. Either option is unacceptable.

Therefore, Pakistan is basically in a state of strategic limbo when it comes to India. It doesnt want an ultimate showdown with India, nuclear or otherwise, since defeat will mean the destruction of pakistan with a secular akhand bharat while victory will also mean a destruction of pakistan with a muslim akhand bharat!! Either way it means a loss of Pakistan and the creation of akhand bharat!! Therefore, Pakistan has simply adopted a defensive doctrine to keep the status quo whatever it is. Yet its ideology requires it to be hostile to India. Thus it is just empty rhetorical hostility that can never really culminate into action since any kind of decisive action means the end of Pakistan as an entity. The question is whether it can morph into a benign, peaceful coexistence. The status quo situation and the presence of nukes demands it and that is where we are ultimately headed.

mercenary? hello....mercenaries get to pick their gigs...


A note to Pakistan's brave soldiers used as mercenaries
by Abid Ullah Jan
(Saturday, February 2, 2008)

"Islam doesn’t allow war even against non-Muslims without reason, let alone Muslims."

Ink dries up in the Western Press lauding Musharraf as a valuable ally in the so-called war on terror. Is he an ally or a mercenary? Allies are consulted, mercenaries are hired.

All evidence suggests that although Mush had handlers in Mossad and US agencies since 1980, he has been a hired mercenary since January 2000 when he first readjusted the Nuclear Command Authority. Why is a retired general still calling the shots in NCA? The brave Pakistani Army soldiers are manipulated to kill other Muslims in the war of terror of Musharraf’s handlers.

It is time Pakistani soldiers look at what they are asked to do by a self-imposed, depressed and sick president. It is time that they look at the oath they took when joining the army. It is time that they look at the retired general and his actions (who violated his oath five times). It is time they check the direction of their muskets......which should be towards this retired general. Conscience – Zameer - of a brave soldier is a lot more precious than a few pieces of bread! Wake up!

In view of the present situation in Pakistan, where Muslims are pitted against Muslims, bloodshed is widespread, and where violence against fellow Muslims and aggression on assets and property, perpetrated under the guise of Islam, defence of Pakistan and the “war on terrorism” is daily occurrence, we need to seriously think over our actions. What are we fighting for? What is our objective? What is our cause? Are we on the highway to heaven or hell?

Before reaching any conclusion, let’s have a quick look at the ground realities.

The main objective of the Islamophobes, particularly in the US media, academia and politics was pitting Muslims against each other. It was promoted in the name of a “war within Islam.”[1] Soon after 9/11 the calls for a “war within Islam” intensified.[2]

Pakistan was the high value target[3] long before the war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, but undermining the Soviet Union was a priority. Focus shifted to Islam and Pakistan after the Soviet withdrawal. Taliban became the perfect scapegoat. Instead of helping the Taliban to correct their approach and ways to living by Islam, Muslims fully participated in demonising the Taliban. Operation 9/11 was planned. A war on Afghanistan was planned even before that. The country was invaded and occupied not just for the sake of occupying Afghanistan but for encircling the cooperating Pakistan as well.

Since then Pakistan army has been rented at $100 million a month[4] by the US. There is no denying the fact and no one can challenge this reality. The other billions were not showered for development or poverty alleviation or institution building. Those funds were also provided to further consolidate occupation of Afghanistan and strengthen Pakistan army for fighting its own people in the coming war within Islam.

As we can clearly see, Pakistan army is fighting their own, local, Pakistani people. Pakistan army was used to provoke reaction of local populations by blockading and bombing their villages in the name of fighting foreign terrorists. There is no denying the fact that many refugees came from across the border, but most of the foreigners among them were either killed or handed over to the US in the early days of the US war on Afghanistan.

Even if there were some remaining refugees, such as Arabs or Chechens or Uzbeks, they never came to Pakistan with the intention to fight Pakistanis. If they wanted to fight and die, they would have stayed in Afghanistan and fought the invading forces there, rather than coming to Pakistan to kill Muslims. It is a matter of common sense that anyone who is so dedicated to the cause of Islam that he is willing to give his life, how on earth would he violate the very basic and strong injunctions of Islam that killing an innocent person amounts to killing the whole humanity.

The myth of Al-Qaeda[5] of exaggerated and Musharraf regime played a bigger role in this only to prove itself the biggest ally fighting a war for America. So far the US has to prove that Afghans or Chechens or Uzbeks had a hand in the operation 9/11. All evidence leads to the “inside job” of those in the position of power and control within the US. Japanese parliament is far more bold enough to discuss the 9/11 truth, where as it should have been the Pakistani leadership at all levels which should have questioned the premise of the “war on terrorism” and the flimsy justifications for invading and occupying Afghanistan.

Anyway, the more one impartially analyse the findings, the more one comes to the conclusion that the US war on Afghanistan is illegal and illegitimate in the first place. [6] So anything that the Pakistani soldiers may do to consolidate the US occupation of Afghanistan is illegal both according to the international law and norms, and totally illegal and immoral according to Islam. This is from where illegality of the military operations begins.

Then go back and history and see if there was not a perfect peace in the tribal areas before Mush’s joining the war of terror? During the tumultuous years of Afghan war, when Pakistan army recruited thousands of people from across the country and outside Pakistan, the tribal people largely remained neutral. There autonomy and related criminal activities by some aside, the tribal people had never engaged in any terrorist activities against the state of Pakistan in the past 60 years.

Now come to the role of Pakistan army, its motto and its mission. Against is original mission and mandate, today Pakistan army is engaged in what the US wants it to do.[7] The army itself is established on the foundation of Iman (Faith), Taqwa (fear of Allah) and Jihad fee sabeelillah (struggle in the cause of Allah). It is an inherently Islamic institution. What we need to assess is what has become of this Islamic army in a state, which the ex-commander in chief is not ready to accept as an Islamic State? Is the army still following the motto of Iman, Taqwa and Jihad fee Sabeelillah under the Generals who profess admiration for Mustafa Ataturk, who are staunchly secularists? Pakistan army was supposed to fight against the enemies of Pakistan and defend Pakistanis. Are they fighting the enemies of Pakistan? Did their victims declare a war on Pakistan? Or they have provoked a reaction to stage the drama of fighting terrorism?

Going one step further, the Pakistani soldiers must keep in mind that Pakistan not an Islamic state. It has not officially declared jihad against it own people. The regime is proudly participating in the “war of terrorism,” which has roundly been declared a war of terror even by non-Muslim analysts and impartial leading figures. By any standard and definition, the missions of Pakistan military within Pakistan are illegal and absolutely criminal. The army is engaged in the cause of the warlords in the United States. Period.

The neocons and their allied corporate terrorists have butchered millions of people on the 9/11 pack of lies. The Pakistani soldiers who are fighting for the warlords in Washington are committing crimes against humanity. If this war is not for Islam, not for Pakistan, not for saving Pakistanis from invading armies, then it is a totally unjust, criminal war against Pakistanis to please those who didn’t hesitate to declare a "war within Islam."

If someone argues that he is fighting against the “suicide” bombers and “terrorist,” we would like to hear: Why was their no “suicide bomber” in the past 60 years? Why was there no terrorist fighting them in the past 60 years? Why someone did not “misinterpret” Islam in the past 60 years? Why now? What happened all of a sudden? Who took all hopes of life from the people who know that if they don't die fighting, they are going to get butchered anyway. So why not kill a few of those who are out there hunting to kill them anyway. Who is responsible for pushing people to this extreme?

Military officers and front line soldiers would do well if they understand the over all context and stop fighting and killing innocent villagers, whose lives have directly been threatened in the name of fighting mythical al-Qaeda – a US bogey-monster to spread the war in the Muslim world. Of course, it’s hard to make both ends meet and being soldier one has no option but to obey orders, however, dying in the cause of George Bush is worse than quitting army or refusing to occupy Pakistani villages and killing innocent civilians in the name of Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

The Pakistani regime cannot declare a people – Muslims - as infidels and declare open season on them. Even if there are Taliban, even if there are foreigners, one has to stop and ponder; did they declare a war on Pakistan? All propaganda aside, did they plan massacre of Pakistanis? Did they commit a crime? Above all, did they plan and execute Operation 9/11? The answer to these questions is: Absolutely not. Even if yes, bring the perpetrators before a court of law and punish them. Why this blanket war on parts of Pakistan, making life miserable for thousands of people, and displace them with the Israeli kind of collective punishment? There is not justification for continued butchery for pleasing the warlords in Washington.

According to Islam, the blood, property, honour, and reputation of Muslims is sacrosanct on the grounds of the noble verses of the Holy Quran:

“And whoever deliberately and with premeditation kills a believer, his recompense is Hell to abide therein, and the Wrath and the Curse of God are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him”;

and the Immaculate Tradition of the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH):

“Everything pertaining to the Muslim is sacrosanct, including his blood, property, honor, and reputation”.

Islam doesn’t allow war even against non-Muslims without reason, let alone Muslims. Here is clear rule for the declaration of war in the words from the Qur’an:

60.8: "Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice."

If there is no way Muslims can declare a war on non-Muslims unless the non-Muslims have already declared a war against them on the account of religion and have driven them out from their homes, how can the Pakistani regime declare and justify a war on its own people who have not driven other Pakistanis out from their home or stopped them from practicing their faith. Even in war with non-Muslims, the Qur’an says, show them kindness and deal them justly. Where is kindness and justice in the Mush war on his own people?

Indiscriminate bombings, shelling civilian population, collective punishments, allowing the US to bomb Pakistani territory and then accepting responsibility[8] for it – where is sanity in all this, let alone justice.

Helicopter gunships have been used to spew fire from safe stand off heights from where, by implication, it is impossible to separate a terrorist from accompanying civilians. Heavy artillery – an even more undiscriminating weapon – is regularly employed. US U-2 spy planes, flying at 70,000 feet, unmanned Predator drones, equipped with Hellfire missiles, and unattended ground sensors (UGS) dropped from air at passes on the Hindu Kush are samples of the technological weight thrown against a people for the eradicating the non-existent, mythical al-Qaeeda. This is totally against international law and the clear message of the Qur’an.

In Pakistan, the major targets of the aggression of Pakistan army are mosques,[9] just as we see destruction of mosques at the hands of occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.[10] All houses of worship are sacrosanct, including mosques and the non-Muslim houses of worship of all faiths and religions. Therefore, these places of worship may not be attacked, appropriated, or in any other way used as a haven to perpetrate acts in contravention of Shari’a.

Necessarily therefore, it is incumbent upon all Muslims, and Pakistani soldiers in particular to adopt caution and vigilance against all attempts to sow division among them, break their ranks, or incite sedition, strife, and hate to corrupt their divine spiritual bonds with each other as brothers of a single ummah. Regardless of a job in the military, regardless of the military’s accesses against one’s loved one, all attacks on each other – the war within Islam – must stop immediately.

There is no place for aggression (Pakistan’s military) and the counter-attacks (retaliation in revenge) in Islam. It perpetuates the ongoing bloodshed amongst Muslims. The more responsible faction – the Pakistan army – has to stop provoking retaliation. It has to stop the war on Muslims. It has to pull back. It has to stop this war of madness. If there are criminals, brought them to justice in a court of law and punish them as a lesson for others. But this blanked war or terror must end. Otherwise the ruling is clear. They are fighting in the cause of neocons-Zionists and corporate terrorists. They are simply on the highway to hell. Pakistan army – both the generals and the foot soldiers - have to stop this madness even if it cost them their job.

Being in the position of power, Pakistan army is bound to provide security, protection and means of decent livelihood to all categories and sections of the Pakistani people and to uphold justice among them, principally, by ensuring the release of innocent detainees, by bringing to speedy and fair trial, and executing the ruling against, those indicted of crime, while observing strictly the principle of equality among all citizens.

mad-ani

we don't respect losers... ha ha...

HP,
In 1962 Indo China War, India was fighting a communist regime and there is no way Pakistan could have exploited the situation in its favour. In fact if I remember and do cirrect me, at one time Ayub had offered India a joint defence pact. To me exploiting the situation of 1962 is a mere wish cause it did not materialise. Had Pakistan exploited it, a major conflict in the region would have broken out with USA on India's side.

As for 1965, it was ill concieved and badly planned. At a tactical and sub unit level there was brilliance and courage at display but the higher leadership on both sides lacked the professionalism to handle large armies and manouevere.

Lots are young immatured people are angry as i doubted that nano driving toy machine.

Re: # 95 Mohor it would had been good if they taught in your school to respect people and be polite. I am not fond of lafangas from any where specially from india etc. When I was small things were still good , people new ways of real white people in power, to be stern but just and resonable and use polite language. Like saying "ji" yes sir, no sair, thank you sair etc. People use to use good dress , attire, real college educated never look punk like todays children, they pomed their hair, no ugli side burns, iron pants and shirts and they polished their boots with cream or asked boy to polish, read news papers, smoke state express , speak good english like english man , it was great time . Now this is bad time all punks. Please do not comment as you are lost in low new world. There was time when foren return means vilayat gone person now days people go to uae and singapore and think like gone to foren country. I do not interact with punks like you. When you learn manners like respecting people for their age than there money aND ACHIVEMENTS, and learn to say to people like sir and madam etc then I can interact with you. I wish you good luck but really all this punks should be whipped till they say what can do for you sir. Just miserable young punks, trouble to parents and all. useless people.
good night and good February

Re: # 98
Hp you have got to the source.
What is goal. If there is problem with big naboghour(?) then victory is not possible as its not manifest destiny to rule 1 billion.
Now not to loose is winning.Like vietnam war general Giap once said at tet offensive winning was never goal, but to deny victory for stronger party is victory.
After 65 war led ot bangla desh departure. Military wanted probably to abandon the real estate when it was costing too much to rule and losses were mounting with no hope of recovery. It good to right size company says lahore management school.Now pakistan is tidy lean mean army with country behind it with its arms strengthened by megaton capacity bombs and missiles. It powerful fighting machine but even after nuclear exchange ruling 1 billion problem, its like ants , elephant can kill in thousands in one step but finally they can eat him to bone. Numbers count in war in long terms , our megatons can will at most 200 millions ( usa rumsfield warned may kill 5 million people in subcontinet in case of war). Even in nagasaki majority people in city survived even with nuclear disease.
Now our objective should should be Kashmir and if possible Punjab as failure is ok but low objective is crime.
Little here battle or there gains at microscopic level are fine but at macroscopic level it does not mean much. At this time its best to keep ourselves down and go after people who are making war/ economic war against like who are damaging national assets. Now I do not not if dams are allowed to attack by Law? As if even some indian dictector takes army command and blows ( even breach or power generators damaged, Mangla, tarbella, Sukkar and sui gas fields and few compressor staions along pipe lines we have little means big problem. So before staring war this things be considered. If we use megatons their weak atmo forces can use kilotons.

Overlong term we are different people, we may look same, or smell same or speak same language but different nations and leave them to their way we our way.
Overlong term we should look eastwards where is cultural ethos of masses and once India is out of sight it will slowly out of mind. THat is reason I am against hindi movies and old mughal empire and history. Just like 1400 years ago world shook and new age started without reference to old decadent past so 1947 is different we chose to become more modern and western and more orientation towards east and north of stans. We need to less interact with indians as they are carrying burden of old gandhi.

Unless we leave India mentally , Indian ethos will pull us down. So that Indus seperateness from Indo gangetic plains is acceptable as all history can be used or selectively used or misused if for good purpose. Let Pakistan go free, let Indians leave obsession to influence. It time to say good bye and go for westerway, for start Iran is good than India. Unless we leave India mentally we are not free. Only free people can do good and think clearly.
Good night. My mind is really confused recently.

Re: # 54 zeemax

"The fact is, whatever businesses Pakistan Army operates, are to fund the retirement benefits of the soldiers"

I understand these things, but just as an army points its guns towrads its own citizens they lose all previliges and descend themsleves down to the level of common criminals just having bigger guns. Army is not only terrorizing people but destroying everything which a country builds in decades - all institutions, all human rights, rampant mascares, occupying public property thru proxy qabza group, stealing our food, our electricity, our freedoms, killing our innocent children. They have lost all their previliges after that, There is only one conclusion of the battle between citizens of Pakistan and this criminal entity, that is, this criminal institution will be humiliated, dissolved, and disbanned forever. There is no mercy; no reconciliation; no going back.

Pavo, Ijaz, and Fuzair,
Sorry that the post #97 is a little disjointed!

However, the basic questions remain:
What was the goal?
What was the plan to achieve the goal?
what was the strategy to implement the plan?

In the absence of all that, how you guys determined the Indian defeat or takeout.

Pavo, Ijaz, and Fuzair,

Interesting conversation. Particularly I liked the idea that '65 was the last chance for Pakistan to defeat/take out India.

Can any of you military geniuses define what is meant by Idia's defeat or take out. What was going to ensure that India was defeated? Is there anything tangible there?

What Pavo is talking about in his article are some tactical errors and there is no war in the world that did not have tactical blunders by the generals. Tactical errors are accepted as we accept failures in other areas.

The problem with the 65 war was that their was no goal that the Pakistan set before they prepared for the war.
Once you set the goals, the next step is to define some strategy to achieve those goals. Tactics are at the bottom of the pile in this order!

So what was the initial goal for this war?

Was the goal to conquer Kashmir or was it to take out Delhi? Now if they were the goals, then define what the Pak army strategy was to make that happen. Again,Without the defined goals, how could you possibly discuss defeat or take out!

The Pak army had set some goals in Kashmir when they send infiltrators there. Their strategy was to defend the Pak areas if India decided to cross the international borders.

While the Pak army had some goals in Kashmir, its only goal in and around International borders was to defend and Gen Musa and Ayub Khan's strategy was based around defending and that is what they did! The plan was to defend and not be aggressive from the very beginning.

Pavo bemoans Musa's version but that is the most authentic version. They set out to defend and they planned for it.

The Kashmir insurgency started around May of '65. The Indian government right away warned Pakistan of the consequences. The Indians and Pakistanis started deployment along the international borders in the middle of June.

Indian position was mostly along the amristar-lahore corridor. There goal clearly was to defend that area.

Pakistan's goal was not to go to amrister so they too had defensive positions in that area but had aggressive position in areas that provided access to Kashmir.

In sept., India moved towards Lahore as they wanted to defend amrister. India too had a defensive strategy and once they got close to Lahore, they did not know what to do next and decided to just hang around there!

Both armies were fighting a defensive war around the International borders and that is evident from every book you read on the subject and Pavo himself is implying that in his article.

So let me hear from you geniuses what was the Goal for the '65 war to determine how it was the best chance for Pakistan to takeout or defeat India!

#94 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 3, 2008 6:11:36 am


Its hard so just wait undertree and when punjab and Kashmir will ripe will fell and fruit can be picked up that time. Patience is virtue. Jihadi sending in Kashmir is right way to slowly chip down mountain.


ROTFLMAO....hilarious...especially for a troll....

Re: # 94 mad-ani

you can't win against hinuds... you are pakis for pete's sake... when did you win anything in anything??... except may be in cricket matches... even that is not happening these days....

you are an old man - you should know this already... stop fantasizing...

I wonder how either can win war in long term. Only areas that can have possibility of joining is Kashmir ( Muslim), Punjab (Sikh) and Tamilland( Tamil religion) last is too far. So even if Punjab abd Kashmir valley is occupied then being large country and general threshould of pain of indians being higher and having large land and manpower they will go on continuously making war. Also if area like Delhi or Rajestan occupied feeding so many will be trouble. Also they can struggle like Gandhi way that will spectacle for TV of usa and all. Its hard so just wait undertree and when punjab and Kashmir will ripe will fell and fruit can be picked up that time. Patience is virtue. Jihadi sending in Kashmir is right way to slowly chip down mountain. Problem with jehadis is if they start getting success they can do same for I-Bad. Avoid war and support Kashmir and Punjab and tamilland. Real problem is our people looking to bring in indian movies openly for big theater that is like importing liquor just to save fortune of movie theatre owners. Good evening.

Ijaz,

The book sounds very interesting; I'd like to have a look at it; free proofing if you want!

However, I'd beg to differ about the 65 War. It was, I agree with Major Amin, Pakistan's one and only chance to take out India. In fact, it would have been better to have launched it in 62 when the Indian Army was busy collapsing! But this would have required leadership of a higher caliber than Pakistan had. Perhaps the PA would have done worse in 62; far too many of its senior officers had been promoted to higher rank too soon as there was a serious shortage of senior officers. Yahya was a Brigadier at age 34 apparently!