Afghanistan - A Strategic Analysis

re: fuzair # 457

Fuzair, you are very correct in your hypothesis for a probable German victory over the Russians.

Operation Barbarossa was scheduled for early spring 1941. The delay resulted from the fact that Hitler's ally, Mussolini, decided to invade Albania and got bogged down there and the Germans had to come to his rescue. In the process of subjugating the Balkans, the Wehrmacht lost critical time and had to re-inventory its losses and Barbarossa was pushed back to early summer.

Secondly; Hitler made a mess of the operational schedules of the German Army. When the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow, Hitler ordered that the capture of the Baku oil fields was the primary target and not Moscow and then changed his mind again and said Moscow was the prime target. In the process, the German advance was fragmented as the Wehrmacht was send on a goose chase and the Red Army had the opportunity to bring up reinforcements from the east; and by the time the Germans did get close to Moscow, again, the weather had turned against them and first snow had started to fall - making the roads impassable for the armor and the Soviets counter-attacked the Germans.

There is a possibility that had Hitler not over ruled the professional advice of his generals and diverted the spearhead of the German advance southwards, towards Baku, the Germans might have entered Moscow by late October and the war might have had a different result.

The German military, from a study of its internal memos, had warned Hitler that German army was still in a state of rearming and would not be fully operational, for war, till 1942 or 1943. The German Navy had said that same that the German naval rearmament program was still in the process and the German Navy need till 1944 or 1945 before it could support the army; only the Luftwaffe had attained war readiness status (courtsey of the Spanish Civil War) and the professional military advice to Hitler was to delay the onset of the war till mid-1940s.

Ciao
Ciao

A rare post from Feroz!

The Germans would have (maybe) beaten the Soviets if Barbarossa had not been delayed several weeks and Hitler not overruled his generals who wanted to push it back a year. Hitler also overruled his generals who wanted to push staight on to Moscow.

In any case, the scale of the fighting can be gauged by the fact that one German general in three was killed, not wounded but killed, by enemy action in WWII, most on the Eastern Front.

I thought the best tank of WWII was the Mk V Panzer, not the T-34--which, btw, was based on an American design, Walter Christie's, which was rejected by the US. Maybe the good major, who is a tanker, can enlighten us?

Read General Franz Haldler's War Diary in which he details the preparation for the opening of Operation Barbarossa.

The vast bulk of the Wehrmacht was committed to the fight against Russia. The Eastern Front was the most crucial front of the Second World War and it was at Stalingrad that the German Army suffered its first loss in the war.

It was on the Eastern Front that the flower of the German Army was totally destroyed; a loss from which the Wehrmacht never recovered.

Ciao

Re: # 436

Again your knowledge of military history is rudimentary.The maximum share of fighting in WW 2 was done by Red Army who suffered some 90 % of all casualties suffered in total by allies.

The allies were able to land in France only after the Soviets had inflicted severe losses on the Germans.


Ans: Does the number of casualties in Russian side makes them the greatest contributor?
The weather is/was the most deciding factor in case of Russia (even good teams from Italy, Germany looses match to Dynamo, Kiev in their home ground due to extreame cold).

Re: # 341
The whole thesis falls flat on its face when the author believes that the US could possibly launch a nuclear strike on Islamabad or Kahuta. The nuke assests are not in Islamabad and surgical nuke strike on a populated area would not only meet internal opposition within the US admin and politicians but would also be opposed by the many other countries including India, China and Russia. The US is unable to pull that hoax over Iran despite many threats

Ans: If USA wants to bomb Pakistan, I don't think India, China can do anything. Russia has no stake in Pakistan (thanks to Afghan war). Iraq was major friend of India in middle east. India was not able to verbally attack directly to USA ("It is time the superpower showed some restraint and sought U.N. mediation to resolve the dispute.". That much only!!!!). China is trying to create a military camp with help of Russia. But Russia and China can not be good friends (lesson from Tibbet). It was Israel, who wanted to bomb Kahuta with help of India. India had denied access to its airbase for the use of Israel.

Re: # 435
For extreamly creative people, school is definitely not a nice place. The story repeats for Tagore also.

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/tagore_einstein.jpg

Re: # 435
For extreamly creative people, school is definitely not a nice place. The story repeats for Tagore also.

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/tagore_einstein.jpg

Also read "also ended my supporting capitalism instead of socialistic princpiles."

as "also ended by supporting capitalism instead of socialistic princpiles.


p.s To state that tahmed has a US centric view is to put his disease very mildly and forgivingly. He outdoes the most bigoted of rednecks in supporting the US position even when their own elite will at times admit their myopic mistakes (but keep on with the same policies). HP mian very disappointing your lack of condemnation of tahmed's total barbarism and back stabbing of our people.

In #433 addressed to HP, read " bleed them and the russians" as "bleed them and the Germans"

#433, nothing in my post is from the SU propaganda machine. I believe they made a terrible mistake by being an ally to the US who was trying to bleed them and the russians at the same time. My post only has the facts, the SU is responsible for converting the world post WW2 into a unipolar US dominated world and then playing their militarism game to keep them in the dominant position. They not only sacrificed their own people for that end but also ended my supporting capitalism instead of socialistic princpiles. Nothing here is from the SU propaganda machine, in fact they would consider me a "traitor" were I to say this during their hey days...

tahmed writes "If anyone thinks the US is looking for territorial expansion today, then he is - to put it gently - not in touch with reality"

So the 800+ military bases all around the globe are "hanging in the air" and not on any territory? with newer and bigger and better ones being planned all the time? It is you tahmed who is deliberately and deceitfully out of touch with reality...

Harimau,

"During his childhood, Mendel worked as a gardener, studied beekeeping, and as a young man attended the Philosophical Institute in Olomouc"

"In school, the young Edison's mind often wandered, and his teacher, the Reverend Engle, was overheard calling him "addled." This ended Edison's three months of official schooling. His mother then home schooled him.

"Edison's family was forced to move to Port Huron, Michigan, when the railroad bypassed Milan in 1854,[5] but his life there was bittersweet. He sold candy and newspapers on trains running from Port Huron to Detroit, as well as vegetables that he sold to supplement his income. "

How many of your ilk wants to be a scientist this way? You have been cramming for generations and cleverly made that as the art to master, to get into colleges. You've fooled gullible masses by feigning as God's conduit thereby exploiting their hard work for your living.

Perhaps, you should abstain seeing a 'lingam' for some time. The black lingams clearly have had a profound effect on your gene pool and hence your jealousy towards goats or the proclivity to become one.

Re: # 440
It is interesting and worth studying how at start red army was more or less like 1st world war army , static and this made great detrimental destruction of red army due to lack knowlege of useing mechanised forces as thrust and not infantry. With short time of 6 months russians picked up what they saw on battlefield and changed way of fighting to match enemy. That is very difficult as even army officers had to learn and use new ways.
Backward Techinically russians were not backward they developed best tank ww2 , T34, or use of battries mounted on trucks very efficiently. They did not institted just heavy unworking machine like Kirov Voroshilov, use of sticky bombs against germans. Germans were astonished by T-34 ability to absorb several strikes and not burst, they had developed better more ductile , metallurgical steel. They had management , they moved most factories east of Urals so swiftly and war production was started.

Just it happened and Red Army defeated german does not mean it was easy or ordinary. Let us be respectful of Army which saved world.
Good day.

Some facts from the WW Two:--


An objective comparison of the scale, intensity and duration of fighting on the WW2 fronts shows that the Eastern (Soviet-German) front was of crucial significance from 1941 to 1945. Some 190 to 270 of the best divisions of the Wehrmacht and the armed forces of satellite countries fought simultaneously on the Eastern front. In Northern Africa, the Allies stood up against 9-20 divisions in 1941 -1943, 7-26 divisions in Italy in 1943-1945, and 56-75 divisions in France in 1944.

The maximum length of the Eastern front was 6,200 km, while the frontline in Africa was 350 km, about 300 km in Italy, and up to 1,000 km in Western Europe. Active hostilities on the Eastern front lasted 1,320 of the 1,418 days of the Great Patriotic War (93% of the total), while fighting on the Western fronts lasted only 1,094 of the 2,069 days of the Second World War of 1939-1945(53%).

The Red Army routed 607 divisions of the enemy, while the Allied forces defeated 176. The Wehrmacht's losses in the East amounted to 73.5% of overall casualties and up to 75% of lost weapons and hardware. The irretrievable losses of the Soviet Union were 8.6 million, while the losses of the German army were 7 million and of its satellites, 0.95 million. Our Allies' aggregate losses were 1,471,000; of this figure, the US lost 405,000, Britain 375,000, France 600,000, Canada 37,000, Australia 35,000, New Zealand 12,000, and the Union of South Africa 7,000.

The Soviet Union hoped, with good reason, that a second front would be opened in Europe before 1944. It is true that the Allies' actions at sea, in Africa and Sicily contributed to the common victory, yet the outcome of the war was decided on the main strategic theatres that led to the vital centres of Germany.

#439 Posted by ijaz_gul
"I do not that agree that the army is fighting on both sides, though I agree someone is. Most probably, these are the intelligence agencies that I call GREY."

Mark my words again Ijaz, you are making a serious mistake in reading the Pak army. You cannot separate the army from the army intelligence agencies. They are not independent and don't operate without some sort of coordination.

It is true that CIA is a big player in Pakistan but I doubt that they can use the agencies w/o the army high command knowing about it or providing tactical approval.

It would be simplistic to say that Russia or the USA alone was the real victor of WW 2.The conclusion is that USA supplied the money and the weapons from its vast industry.Britain was the base area from where the strategic air offensive was launched on Germany.The Red Army did most of the most tough job .Fighting the vast bulk of Germans.

Tailpiece:-- When I attended the Red Army Afghan Veterans conference some 12 yaers back I was surprised to discover that some 50 Chechen Muslims won the highest Red Army Gallantry award in WW Two called Hero of the Soviet Union.