Afghanistan - A Strategic Analysis

Re: # 473 I was in Multan and my regiment was responsible for that accursed man's lunch.

To me it appears that it was an operation launched by Americans with active support of elements in paki army and air force.however the soviet involvement cannot be ruled out at least in logistics.

It was thought in many quarters in american policy making circles that zia's adventurism had to be curtailed.he had already made a fool of americans by diverting a part of US aid to dumps which were later used to support the kashmir mujahids.

Pavo, Zee Sahib:

For the benefit of simpletons like me, who was the team behind Zia's assasination?

Lat I heard it was the Russian/American/MOssad/Shia brigade, but this latest shosha seems to suggest it was the ISI?

Again, the question I ask myself is, why? What did ISI have to gain by getting rid of Zia, Akhtar AbdurRahman, and Mr. Raphael?

Re: # 465 Thanks for the positive remarks about Chawinda.

Please insert a correction:--

25 Cavalry saved the day on 8th September when 11 Cavalry was advancing towards Jaurian.

11 Cavalry was ordered to Chawinda after 9th.

When 11 Cavalry did reach Chawinda the Indians had already because of their own very stupid brigadier KK Singh Sparrow Commander 1st Armoured Brigade lost the opportunity to outflank 25 Cavalry.

If KK Singh had any resolution and generalship Chawinda was a straight Pakistani failure.

Interestingly 25 Cavalry also acted thinking that they were not opposed by the Indian armoured division.

The Pakistani brigade commander Abdul Ali Malik had lost his nerve and as per Shaukat Riza Pakistan's official historian just asked Lt Col Nisar Commanding Officer 25 Cavalry ..."Nisar Do Something".

In 5 Minutes over Islamabad I had theorised Islamabad as a good nuclear target because its physically impossible to target Pakistan's nuclear assets.Islamabad on the other hand has all the good things that a target should have.

Mr Feroz K

You say :---

Secondly; Hitler made a mess of the operational schedules of the German Army. When the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow, Hitler ordered that the capture of the Baku oil fields was the primary target and not Moscow and then changed his mind again and said Moscow was the prime target. In the process, the German advance was fragmented as the Wehrmacht was send on a goose chase and the Red Army had the opportunity to bring up reinforcements from the east; and by the time the Germans did get close to Moscow, again, the weather had turned against them and first snow had started to fall - making the roads impassable for the armor and the Soviets counter-attacked the Germans."


Here was gone quite wrong.

When the Germans captured Smolensk on the central highway to Moscow.They were supposed to go straight for Moscow.At this stage Hitler instead decide to encircle Kiev in the South.Thats why the Germans were delayed for 8 weeks and winter arrived.

For support to this argument you may read Albert Seatons " THE RUSSO GERMAN WAR" , Colonel General Guderians memoirs PANZER LEADER, Field Marshal Manstein's LOST VICTORIES,Alexander Werths book on Russia and Mellenthin's PANZER LEADER.

The Russian Baku oilfields came in 1942 much later.In this case also the target were the Grozny Oilfield in Chechnya .At that time one of the largest in USSR.

Re: # 461 the family member who is known to have practised extreme sycophancy with Zia was Defence Attache in USA before he became Zia's Military Secretary or at least before 1987.Its possible that he was converted as they say in Intelligence methodolgy by Americans.

Interestingly the same man is again Pakistan's ambassador to USA.

Re: # 463 Good Sir , at least at some points we agree.

Masan Bhai,

Well said. The fkr is crude and idiotic on this issue. But at the same time let us accept they have been at the receieving end esp from those who were not relly oppressed by them Nadars, Kallars, Thevars, Mudaliars and Vanniars.

You may disagree.

Regards
Sanatani

'Actually black on black violence in the inner cities is very high, and the AA who can "hope" for becomming president just like you can "hope" to make a reasonable argument must make sure that i) he is of lighter complexion than the rest of his group, as is the case with Obama and was the case with Powell ii) is part of the establishment meaning he wont do anything cukoo like get real civil rights for the people and iii) even when he fulfils 1 and ii white racism will pick on him with racial slurs, even America's first black president Bill Clinton is not immune from using racial slurs when a black approaches a prominent position"

Madani Sahab ab aap Phuddoon ki tarah bate kar rahe ho.

This reminds me of my Sudanese Senior in College who said Damn country is so hot I have become black and now Government of India must pay for my fair and lovely. We took this jest upto the head of Indian Council of Cultural Relations. A junior IAS type was handed the case and he understood the jest said Sorry Khalid i have checked with the company that F&L is for ladies go back to Sudan get a wife next year we shall buy her F&L.

So Barrack Obama is white and Billa black. Gr8.

As i said ab aap Phuddon ki tarah batein kar rahe ho.

Sanatani

Mr. Madani: thank you for the lengthy post defending mr. pavocavalry and mr. masadi intellectual credentials. I have read mr. pavocavalry's accounts of the 1965 battle, and they have definitely filled in some missing pieces on the Chawinda battle (particularly, the role of the 25th cavalry in blocking the indians after the 11th cavalry was finally overwhelmed by the much larger force of an entire armored division), and will forever be in debt to him for that for very personal reasons. If I agree or disagree with him on something, I do so on issues of fact or logic. Would you want me to ignore what I consider to be obvious facts simply in order to be in agreement with someone?

For masadi I have no respect for reasons that should be obvious if you read my post to him below.

Sir,

Brilliantly said. I salute you.

As somebody who is otherwise very pro brahmin except when they behave like Harimau or the way the fjkrs behave in Jagannath of Puri and the Dhams, it seems to me these guts like the Muslais are asking for it.

Regards to you.
Sanatani

P.S. Probably this choooth does not know the origins of the sages after which these BRahmins are named after

pavocavalry #443 "It would be simplistic to say that Russia or the USA alone was the real victor of WW 2."

That is what I was saying earlier when I said that saying that the USSR or the US was responsible for beating germans was like arguing about whether it is the left hand or the right hand that made the clap (or, more accurately, squished the Nazi jooN (head louse). So we agree on this basic point.

However, re the following post, I believe the 'Hatch' was a usual move which Benazir had been recently making, and was expected to do this time too.

But, if she had NOT made that move, the killers would have followed her, or more devices/plans along her route, so she wasn't going to remain alive that day.

I don't think it was an inside job by her own people, though nothing can be ruled out.

Investigating Benazir's Assassination

Commodore Tariq Majeed PN (Retd)

The legendary fictional detective Sherlock Holmes with Dr Watson by his side was pondering over the murder case, when he suddenly exclaimed, "The dog, Watson, the dog!" "But, Holmes, the dog did not bark," said Dr Watson. "That's it, Watson. The dog—did not bark."

What Holmes meant was, had the intruder been a stranger, the dog would have barked. There was a key clue in it to the mystery.

Consider Sherlock Holmes looking into the circumstances of Benazir Bhutto's assassination on 27 December 2007 near Liaquat Bagh in Rawalpindi. He would have soon exclaimed, "The sunroof hatch, Watson, the sunroof hatch!" "But, Holmes, she just raised her head out of the hatch to wave back to her supporters." "That's it, Watson. "She raised her head out of the hatch—and the killers were ready waiting for that very move. "

Benazir was not supposed to raise her head out of the hatch. Something or someone prompted her. Some one should have stopped her, but did not. A vital clue has to be found here. An investigator would be debasing his own intelligence if he thought that the killers were counting on a lucky chance that Benazir might show up outside the hatch and they would accomplish their murderous mission.

No, there was no question of taking a chance. The schemers had to ensure that Benazir would protrude her head out of the hatch when her vehicle was at the chosen spot; their whole devilish scheme was hinged on this step. It was a prerequisite for their scheme. How did they arrange it? Finding it out will uncover very valuable leads.

We know from press reports that, "On 27 December, after Benazir's speech at the Liaquat Bagh gathering, when her vehicle reached Liaquat Road a mysterious crowd appeared all of a sudden and surrounded her vehicle, while shouting slogans in favour of People's Party and Benazir Bhutto. The vehicle was halted. At this Benazir emerged out of the sunroof to respond to their cheers."

Was this the only maneuver to halt her vehicle and prompt her to stand up and show herself out of the hatch? Highly unlikely. It was a very important objective. There must have been a couple of other catalysts to lead to that objective.

Look back at the August 1988 crash of President Zia's C-130 aircraft in which thirty other innocent persons, including the American ambassador and nine army officers of brigadier to 4-star general rank, and a precious lot of PAF officers and technicians, perished. Having selected the method and planned the killing operation, the masterminds employed a number of instruments to ensure that General Ziaul Haq would embark the aircraft to fly to Bahawalpur to watch demonstration of a new tank on the operation's D-Day, 17 August.

The chief, and most reliable, instrument was his former military secretary who was now an armoured division's commander in Multan and in charge of the demonstration, and who was on such intimate terms with the general as he was treated as a family member.

Zia was reluctant to go. The "family member" kept making repeated telephone calls requesting him to come and see the demonstration, till Zia relented; of course influenced also by the other ploys. The masterminds could not afford to fail. They had made foolproof arrangements not only for President Zia but also for General Akhtar Abdul Rahman and Ambassador Arnold Raphel, who both were on the masterminds' kill list, to make certain that they will be onboard the C-130.

Autopsy on Benazir Bhutto before burial was essential, but it was not performed. Reportedly, it was not permitted by her next of kin. No post-mortem was carried out in the case of the C-130 casualties, too. In that case the highest authorities in the army had prohibited post-mortem of the bodies. That was a part of the sinister scheme.

What about the present case? There was every reason, in fact a crying need, for a post-mortem of the awfully slain body. Was prohibiting post-mortem a personal decision of Asif Ali Zardari or was it a built-in programmed feature? It shouldn't be too difficult for a genuine investigator to find the correct answer and draw the right conclusion.

Post-mortem was also necessary to check if Benazir had been given a dose of any drug. There are drugs that can induce a calculated reaction or emotion in a person—and even at a programmed time. It could be seen in the television clips of her public address at Liaquat Bagh that she was emotionally intensely worked up. At one time she was shown with her arms thrust forward and upward and flailing them with unusual force. An example of how drugs can be used on political leaders and VIPs for specific purposes pertains to George Bush Sr, US president 1988-92.

In the 1992 election, the powerful clique in America, which wields decisive political influence, wanted Bush to lose and Bill Clinton to win. The US media depicted Clinton as youthful and full of energy and Bush as too old for the job and suffering from health problems. Bush went on a state visit to Japan. There was an exclusive banquet in his honour. Media men were not allowed in the banquet hall. Bush arrived accompanied by the Japanese premier. As they sat down, Bush, who habitually drank some water before dinner, lifted the glass of water that had been placed for him and drank from it. The next moment he threw up, his vomit falling on the lap of the Japanese premier! A photographer, who, the media said, had been hiding under a table, took the picture of the US president throwing up in the lap of the prime minister of Japan.

The story did incalculable, or rather well-calculated, harm to Bush's image in the American public. The scheme's masterminds, knowing Bush's habit, used a drug that if taken with water induces uncontrollable vomiting. It should also be obvious that the masterminds, remaining thousands of miles away, can get things done through local tools.

Princess Diana did not die in an unforeseen car accident. The accident was pre-planned. She was murdered by design. The chauffeur of her car had been drugged.

There is another close similarity between the two shocking crimes, the assassination of President Ziaul Haq and that of Benazir Bhutto. Actually, the "shock effect" itself is an element common to them. The dreadful cruelty and the precision and suddenness with which it was inflicted in each case were meant to psychologically paralyze the public that was a deliberate aim of the master schemers.

However, the close similarity mentioned above is the swift cleaning out of the site of crime. In this respect, what the Shafiur Rehman Inquiry Commission on the C-130 crash observed in its report was something like this: [Soon after the crash], "The personal items and baggage of the deceased persons had been removed from the scene, and the signs and marks which these items carried, and which had to be preserved in order to unfold the secrets had been [quickly] effaced." The same thing happened in the current case. The site of Benazir's assassination was cleaned up with extraordinary speed and efficiency. There can be no doubt that it was a programmed feature, just as it was so in the assassination of Ziaul Haq and 30 others. Again, intelligent investigators can trace from it substantial leads to the local criminals and accomplices.

The investigators should closely examine Ziaul Haq's assassination case, the details and analysis of which can be found in the book Masterminds of Air Massacres: of August 17 in Pakistan and September 11 in America.

It would give them valuable new insight not only on discovering the local tools and pawns who executed the scheme's various tasks but also the identity of the real criminals, the masterminds. Profound perceptiveness and sincerity of purpose is necessary for the investigators to comprehend the masterminds' deeply destructive aims against Pakistan. These aims would reveal the real reasons behind the murder they are investigating.

The foreign investigators may find the local culprits but will never point to the real masterminds. The masterminds of Benazir's assassination are the same who assassinated Ziaul Haq.

Strange are the vagaries of fate.

masadi #449 "HP mian very disappointing your lack of condemnation of tahmed's total barbarism and back stabbing of our people. "

I did not realize that confronting you with facts that you cant respond to in any rational manner is barbarism.

And dont hide behind "our people" you hypocrite - from your posts it is obvious that the only thing that concerns you is your own ego. Throughtout 2007, when Pakistanis were struggling to be free, you were trying to draw attention away from Musharraf and point to the evil "US elite".

As I said, while you are a mere joke on chowk, I know quite well individuals like you in Pakistan who love to spread lies about the US in order to pose as "intellectuals". It is individuals like you who have misled thousands of young Pakistanis to see as enemies people who mean them no harm, and to see as friends the arab thugs and central asian scoundrels who are looking for nothing more than to carve out a little kingdom for themselves in Swat and Waziristan and other places.

#448 masadi: So the fact that the US has bases around the world means it seeks to take over the surrounding territories?

Too bad the British, Germans, Icelanders, Spaniards, Italians, Turks, Central Asians, Japanese, and Australians are not aware that US forces are there to turn them into the 51st, 52nd, 53rd...58th states!! And no doubt the US cant wait to have Iraq and Afghanistan join the union as the 59th and 60th states!!