Musharraf’s Days are Numbered

Analysis of events in last two years can tell you quite a few things went wrong and there is tough time ahead. Pakistan is in danger. A small group which has exclusive rights and it has created negative feelings among people which will result in breaking of this society.

Please do something sensible. Maybe you can organize civil society.

Now who is responsible for all this turmoil? Who is in helm of afairs for las t 8 years?

You know better!

Analysis of events in last two years can tell you quite a few things went wrong and there is tough time ahead. Pakistan is in danger. A small group which has exclusive rights and it has created negative feelings among people which will result in breaking of this society.

Please do something sensible. Maybe you can organize civil society.

Now who is responsible for all this turmoil? Who is in helm of afairs for las t 8 years?

You know better!

Re: # 65

Muind Mr Madni, only mistakes can be forgiven. AS for the sins against humanity (Haqooqulibaad) these cannot be forgiven even by God Himsel. Every sinner will have to pay 'Kaffaarah' for them. Cj has paid his kaffaarah, in fact, for the whole nation as Imam Hussain had paid for the entire Ummah. He is great indeed!

Re: # 67
zeemax

Thank you dear for reproducing the letter of the CJ. It is a masterpiece indeed. But as Allama Iqbal had said:

"Phool ki patti se kat sakta he hire ka jigar
Made nadaan par kalame narmo naazik be asar"

Jeo Iftikhar, you are 'Iftikhare Pakistan' as you have rendered enough 'Kaffarah' for the sins of all Pakies.

# 68, I think reading this article will do you some good.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/02/04/top11.htm

Who is destabalising who? Musharraf has f**ked the country. Half baked dimwit, telling the world that he is bigger than Pakistan and its institutions... He should be tried for treason.

Re: # 66

Aquaris, Please dont give the reference to pkpolitics. That site is funded by NawazSharif to destabilise the current administration. This BHAGORA cannot do anything more than that. NS is now acting as a B-Team to PPP. NS would be an ULTIMATE LOSER.

Full text. What a powerful letter. Perfect language and eloquence. Quite descriptive of a man of the highest intellect and integrity. This should have great impact unless the foreign powers are not as beyghairat as I believe they are:

Chief Justice Responds to Musharraf Propaganda

January 30, 2008

I am the Chief Justice of Pakistan presently detained in my residence since November 3, 2007 pursuant to some verbal, and unspecified, order passed by General Musharraf.

I have found it necessary to write to you, and others, because during his recent visits to Brussels, Paris, Davos and London General Musharraf has slandered me, and my colleagues, with impunity in press conferences and other addresses and meetings.

Complete Letter From Beginning Below:

His Excellency
The President of the European Parliament,
Brussels.

His Excellency
The President of France,
Paris.

His Excellency
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom,
London.

Her Excellency
Ms. Condaleeza Rice,
Secretary of State,
United States of America,
Washington D.C.

Professor Klaus Schwab,
World Economic Forum,
Geneva.

All through their respective Ambassodors, High Commissioners and representatives.

Excellency,

I am the Chief Justice of Pakistan presently detained in my residence since November 3, 2007 pursuant to some verbal, and unspecified, order passed by General Musharraf.

I have found it necessary to write to you, and others, because during his recent visits to Brussels, Paris, Davos and London General Musharraf has slandered me, and my colleagues, with impunity in press conferences and other addresses and meetings. In addition he has widely distributed, among those whom he has met, a slanderous document (hereinafter the Document) entitled: “PROFILE OF THE FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE OF PAKISTAN”. I might have let this go unresponded but the Document, unfortunately, is such an outrage that, with respect, it is surprising that a person claiming to be head of state should fall to such depths as to circulate such calumny against the Chief Justice of his own country.

In view of these circumstances I have no option but to join issue with General Musharraf and to put the record straight. Since he has voiced his views on several public occasions so as to reach out to the public at large, I also am constrained to address your excellencies in an Open Letter to rebut the allegations against me.

At the outset you may be wondering why I have used the words “claiming to be the head of state”. That is quite deliberate. General Musharraf’s constitutional term ended on November 15, 2007. His claim to a further term thereafter is the subject of active controversy before the Supreme Court of Pakistan. It was while this claim was under adjudication before a Bench of eleven learned judges of the Supreme Court that the General arrested a majority of those judges in addition to me on November 3, 2007. He thus himself subverted the judicial process which remains frozen at that point. Besides arresting the Chief Justice and judges (can there have been a greater outrage?) he also purported to suspend the Constitution and to purge the entire judiciary (even the High Courts) of all independent judges. Now only his hand-picked and compliant judges remain willing to “validate” whatever he demands. And all this is also contrary to an express and earlier order passed by the Supreme Court on November 3, 2007.

Meantime I and my colleagues remain in illegal detention. With me are also detained my wife and three of my young children, all school-going and one a special child. Such are the conditions of our detention that we cannot even step out on to the lawn for the winter sun because that space is occupied by police pickets. Barbed wire barricades surround the residence and all phone lines are cut. Even the water connection to my residence has been periodically turned off. I am being persuaded to resign and to forego my office, which is what I am not prepared to do.

I request you to seek first hand information of the barricades and of my detention, as that of my children, from your Ambassador/High Commissioner/representative in Pakistan. You will get a report of such circumstances as have never prevailed even in medieval times. And these are conditions put in place, in the twenty-first century, by a Government that you support.

Needless to say that the Constitution of Pakistan contains no provision for its suspension, and certainly not by the Chief of Army Staff. Nor can it be amended except in accordance with Articles 238 and 239 which is by Parliament and not an executive or military order. As such all actions taken by General Musharraf on and after November 3 are illegal and ultra vires the Constitution. That is why it is no illusion when I describe myself as the Chief Justice even though I am physically and forcibly incapacitated by the state apparatus under the command of the General. I am confident that as a consequence of the brave and unrelenting struggle continued by the lawyers and the civil society, the Constitution will prevail.

However, in the meantime, General Musharraf has launched upon a vigorous initiative to defame and slander me. Failing to obtain my willing abdication he has become desperate. The eight-page Document is the latest in this feverish drive.

Before I take up the Document itself let me recall that the General first ousted me from the Supreme Court on March 9 last year while filing an indictment (in the form of a Reference under Article 209 of the Constitution) against me. According to the General the Reference had been prepared after a thorough investigation and comprehensively contained all the charges against me. I had challenged that Reference and my ouster before the Supreme Court. On July 20 a thirteen member Bench unanimously struck down the action of the General as illegal and unconstitutional. I was honourably reinstated.

The Reference was thus wholly shattered and all the charges contained therein trashed. These cannot now be regurgitated except in contempt of the Supreme Court. Any way, since the Document has been circulated by no less a person than him I am constrained to submit the following for your kind consideration in rebuttal thereof:

The Document is divided into several heads but the allegations contained in it can essentially be divided into two categories: those allegations that were contained in the Reference and those that were not.

Quite obviously, those that are a repeat from the Reference hold no water as these have already been held by the Supreme Court to not be worth the ink they were written in. In fact, the Supreme Court found that the evidence submitted against me by the Government was so obviously fabricated and incorrect, that the bench took the unprecedented step of fining the Government Rs. 100,000 (a relatively small amount in dollar terms, but an unheard of sum with respect to Court Sanction in Pakistan) for filing clearly false and malicious documents, as well as revoking the license to practice of the Advocate on Record for filing false documents. Indeed, faced with the prospect of having filed clearly falsified documents against me, the Government’s attorneys, including the Attorney General, took a most dishonorable but telling approach. Each one, in turn, stood before the Supreme Court and disowned the Government’s Reference, and stated they had not reviewed the evidence against me before filing it with Court. They then filed a formal request to the Court to withdraw the purported evidence, and tendered an unconditional apology for filing such a scandalous and false documents. So baseless and egregious were the claims made by General Musharraf that on July 20th, 2007, the full Supreme Court for the first time in Pakistan’s history, ruled unanimously against a sitting military ruler and reinstated me honorably to my post.

Despite having faced these charges in open court, must I now be slandered with those same charges by General Musharraf in world capitals, while I remain a prisoner and unable to speak in my defense?

There are, of course, a second set of charges. These were not contained in the Reference and are now being bandied around by the General at every opportunity.

I forcefully and vigorously deny every single one of them. The truth of these “new” allegations can be judged from the fact that they all ostensibly date to the period before the reference was filed against me last March, yet none of them was listed in the already bogus charge sheet.

If there were any truth to these manufactured charges, the Government should have included them in the reference against me. God knows they threw in everything including the kitchen sink into that scurrilous 450 page document, only to have it thrown out by the entire Supreme Court after a 3 month open trial.

The charges against me are so transparently baseless that General Musharraf’s regime has banned the discussion of my situation and the charges in the broadcast media. This is because the ridiculous and flimsy nature of the charges is self-evident whenever an opportunity is provided to actually refute them.

Instead, the General only likes to recite his libel list from a rostrum or in gathering where there is no opportunity for anyone to respond. Incidentally, the General maligns me in the worst possible way at every opportunity. That is the basis for the Document he has distributed. But he has not just deposed me from the Judiciary. He has also fired more than half of the Superior Judiciary of Pakistan – nearly 50 judges in all — together with me. They have also been arrested and detained.

What are the charges against them? Why should they be fired and arrested if I am the corrupt judge? Moreover even my attorneys Aitzaz Ahsan, Munir Malik, Tariq Mahmood and Ali Ahmed Kurd were also arrested on November 3. Malik alone has been released but only because both his kidneys collapsed as a result of prison torture.

Finally, as to the Document, it also contains some further allegations described as “Post-Reference Conduct” that is attributed to me under various heads. This would mean only those allegedly ‘illegal’ actions claimed to have been taken by me after March 9, 2007. These are under the heads given below and replied to as under:

1. “Participation in SJC (Supreme Judicial Council) Proceedings”:

(a) Retaining ‘political lawyers’: Aitzaz Ahsan and Zammurrad Khan:
It is alleged that I gave a political colour to my defence by engaging political lawyers Aitzaz Ahsan and Zamurrad Khan both Pakistan Peoples’ Party Members of the National Assembly. The answer is simple.

I sought to engage the best legal team in the country. Mr. Ahsan is of course an MNA (MP), but he is also the top lawyer in Pakistan. For that reference may be made simply to the ranking of Chambers and Partners Global. Such is his respect in Pakistan’s legal landscape that he was elected President of the Supreme Court Bar Association of Pakistan by one of the widest margins in the Association’s history.

All high profile personalities have placed their trust in his talents. He has thus been the attorney for Prime Ministers Bhutto and Sharif, (even though he was an opponent of the latter) Presidential candidate (against Musharraf) Justice Wajihuddin, sports star and politician Imran Khan, former Speakers, Ministers, Governors, victims of political vendetta, and also the internationally acclaimed gang-rape victim Mukhtar Mai, to mention only a few.

Equally important, Barrister Ahsan is a man of integrity who is known to withstand all pressures and enticements. That is a crucial factor in enaging an attorney when one’s prosecutor is the sitting military ruler, with enourmous monetary and coercive resources at his disposal.

Mr. Zamurrad Khan is also a recognized professional lawyer, a former Secretary of the District Bar Rawalpindi, and was retained by Mr. Aitzaz Ahsan to assist him in the case. Mr. Khan has been a leading light of the Lawyers’ Movement for the restoration of the deposed judiciary and has bravely faced all threats and vilification.

Finally, surely I am entitled to my choice of lawyers and not that of the General.

(b) “Riding in Mr. Zafarullah Jamali (former Prime Minister)’s car”:
How much the Document tries to deceive is apparent from the allegation that I willingly rode in Mr. Jamali’s car for the first hearing of the case against me on March 13 (as if that alone is an offence). Actually the Government should have been ashamed of itself for creating the circumstances that forced me to take that ride.

Having been stripped of official transport on the 9th March (my vehicles were removed from my house by the use of fork lifters), I decided to walk the one-mile to the Supreme Court. Along the way I was molested and manhandled, my hair was pulled and neck craned in the full blaze of the media, by a posse of policemen under the supervision of the Inspector General of Police. (A judicial inquiry, while I was still deposed, established this fact). In order to escape the physical assault I took refuge with Mr. Jamali and went the rest of the journey on his car. Instead of taking action against the police officials for manhandling the Chief Justice it is complained that I was on the wrong!

(c) “Creating a political atmosphere”:
Never did I instigate or invite any “political atmosphere”. I never addressed the press or any political rally. I kept my lips sealed even under extreme provocation from the General and his ministers who were reviling me on a daily basis. I maintained a strict judicial silence. I petitioned the Supreme Court and won. That was my vindication.

2. “Country wide touring and Politicising the Issue”:

The Constitution guarantees to all citizens free movement throughout Pakistan. How can this then be a complaint?
By orders dated March 9 and 15 (both of which were found to be without lawful authority by the Court) I had been sent of “forced leave”. I could neither perform any judicial or administrative functions as the Chief Justice of Pakistan. I was prevented not only from sitting in court but also from access to my own chamber by the force of arms under orders of the General. (All my papers were removed, even private documents).

The only function as ‘a judge on forced leave’ that I could perform was to address and deliver lectures to various Bar Associations. I accepted their invitations. They are peppered all over Pakistan. I had to drive to these towns as all these are not linked by air. On the way the people of Pakistan did, indeed, turn out in their millions, often waiting from dawn to dusk or from dusk to dawn, to greet me. But I never addressed them even when they insisted that I do. I never spoke to the press. I sat quietly in my vehicle without uttering a word. All this is on the record as most journeys were covered by the media live and throughout.

I spoke only to deliver lectures on professional and constitutional issues to the Bar Associations. Transcripts of every single one of my addresses are available. Every single word uttered by me in those addresses conforms to the stature, conduct and non-political nature of the office of the Chief Justice. There was no politics in these whatsoever. I did not even mention my present status or the controversy or the proceedings before the Council or the Court, not even the Reference. Not even once.
All the persons named in the Document under this head are lawyers and were members of the reception committees in various towns and Bar Associations.

3. Political Leaders Calling on CJP residence:

It is alleged that I received political leaders while I was deposed. It is on the record of the Supreme Judicial Council itself that I was detained after being deposed on March 9. The only persons allowed to meet me were those cleared by the Government. One was a senior political leader. None else was allowed to see me, initially not even my lawyers. How can I be blamed for whomsoever comes to my residence?

Had I wanted to politicize the issue I would have gone to the Press or invited the media. I did not. I had recourse to the judicial process for my reinstatement and won. The General lost miserably in a fair and straight contest. That is my only fault.

4. “Conclusion”:

Hence the conclusion drawn by the General that charges had been proved against me ‘beyond doubt’ is absolutely contrary to the facts and wide off the mark. It is a self-serving justification of the eminently illegal action of firing and arresting judges of superior courts under the garb of an Emergency (read Martial Law) when the Constitution was ‘suspended’ and then ‘restored’ later with drastic and illegal ‘amendments’ grafted into it.

The Constitution cannot be amended except by the two Houses of Parliament and by a two-thirds majority in each House. That is the letter of the law. How can one man presume or arrogate to himself that power?

Unfortunately the General is grievously economical with the truth (I refrain from using the word ‘lies’) when he says that the charges against me were ‘investigated and verified beyond doubt’. As explained above, these had in fact been rubbished by the Full Court Bench of the Supreme Court of Pakistan against which judgment the government filed no application for review.

What the General has done has serious implications for Pakistan and the world. In squashing the judiciary for his own personal advantage and nothing else he has usurped the space of civil and civilized society. If civilized norms of justice will not be allowed to operate then that space will, inevitably, be occupied by those who believe in more brutal and instant justice: the extremists in the wings. Those are the very elements the world seems to be pitted against. Those are the very elements the actions of the General are making way for.

Some western governments are emphasizing the unfolding of the democratic process in Pakistan. That is welcome, if it will be fair. But, and in any case, can there be democracy if there is no independent judiciary?

Remember, independent judges and judicial processes preceded full franchise by several hundred years. Moreover, which judge in Pakistan today can be independent who has before his eyes the fate and example of his own Chief Justice: detained for three months along with his young children. What is the children’s crime, after all?

There can be no democracy without an independent judiciary, and there can be no independent judge in Pakistan until the action of November 3 is reversed. Whatever the will of some desperate men the struggle of the valiant lawyers and civil society of Pakistan will bear fruit. They are not giving up.

Let me also assure you that I would not have written this letter without the General’s unbecoming onslaught. That has compelled me to clarify although, as my past will testify, I am not given into entering into public, even private, disputes. But the allegations against me have been so wild, so wrong and so contrary to judicial record, that I have been left with no option but to put the record straight. After all, a prisoner must also have his say. And if the General’s hand-picked judges, some living next door to my prison home, have not had the courage to invoke the power of ‘habeas corpus’ these last three months, what other option do I have? Many leaders of the world and the media may choose to brush the situation under the carpet out of love of the General. But that will not be.

Nevertheless, let me also reassure you that I continue in my resolve not to preside any Bench which will be seized of matters pertaining to the personal interests of General Musharraf after the restoration of the Constitution and the judges, which, God willing, will be soon.

Finally, I leave you with the question: Is there a precedent in history, all history, of 60 judges, including three Chief Justices (of the Supreme Court and two of Pakistan’s four High Courts), being dismissed, arrested and detained at the whim of one man? I have failed to discover any such even in medieval times under any emperor, king, or sultan, or even when a dictator has had full military sway over any country in more recent times. But this incredible outrage has happened in the 21st century at the hands of an extremist General out on a ‘charm offensive’ of western capitals and one whom the west supports.

I am grateful for your attention. I have no other purpose than to clear my name and to save the country (and perhaps others as well) from the calamity that stares us in the face. We can still rescue it from all kinds of extremism: praetorian and dogmatic. After all, the edifice of an independent judicial system alone stands on the middle ground between these two extremes. If the edifice is destroyed by the one, the ground may be taken over by the other. That is what is happening in Pakistan. Practitioners of rough and brutal justice will be welcomed in spaces from where the practitioners of more refined norms of justice and balance have been made to abdicate.

I have enormous faith that the Constitution and justice will soon prevail.

Yours truly,

Iftikhar Mohammad Choudhry,
Chief Justice of Pakistan,
Presently:
Imprisoned in the Chief Justice’s House,
Islamabad.

How Low can you Go....

CJ responds to the slanderous Propaganda by the Dictator


http://pkpolitics.com/2008/01/30/chief-justice-responds-to-musharr af-propaganda/

JUst in about20 days new election and will have start of democracy. Now gone is gone and is never coming back. General has forgive NS and forgiven Mrs Bhutto for 1.5 billion accounting problems. For god sake please give little kind tratment to Mr. President. Everybody has problems and and needs to forgive and forget and be ottimistic of coming new era due to general. Let it be new morning and new beginning a new PM and opposition leader working for new govt with general as head of state. Time to think positively and forget anf forgive, To understand all is t forgive all.

#63 Posted by Urstruly,

You got it Bro.

Re: # 62

makes sense. i think that is how fouj justify their participation in wot while at the same time making americans shit their pants

#59 Posted by Urstruly,

Why do you think there's a split? I believe Jhangvi are still carrying out attacks at the agencies' behest while pretending to have joined the Taliban movement of FATA..

Re: # 59 Urstruly I would recommned you read this http://merln.ndu.edu/archive/icg/sectarianisminpakistan.pdf
THE STATE OF SECTARIANISM IN PAKISTAN Asia Report N°95 – 18 April 2005,International Crisis Group

It is highly entertaining and enlightening!

Zeemax #58 #57 thanks for the information. Now can you please paint the bigger picture and tell us who is winning in this war and who is losing? Also what this loss of Toori means to LeJ and his recruitment to ("they") (sic) means.

Man, you are one for the loony bin if you carry on like this.....

Re: # 57 zeemax

As much I understand it, the Lashkare Jhangvi was a US funded terrorist group whose main objective was to assassinate all Shias of TNFJ who were trying to import Iranian revolutionary ideology into pakistan. What caused the split between this terrorsit org and their pattron fouj and US.

First they said Qasim Toori was captured, now they're saying he was killed in the encounter. So now they have another recruit expert at bombings after Riaz Basra and Akram Lahori.

Police encounter with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi in Landhi, Karachi. One DSP and a constable dead several injured. The person captured Qasim Toori of Jhangvi, is supposed to be wanted for the Corps Commander attack in Karachi. A sack full of 25 kg of ball bearings used in suicide bombings found from the premises.

Connect the dots.

A key member of dictator's legal dream team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvrF1T7rH64

HP and Zeemax,

What is common between Jinnah, ZAB, Bibi - all shias
Was Zia ul haq a shia?

here are three bits of information

(a) In March 1987, a Saudi-backed Ahle Hadith leader,
Allama Ehsan Illahi Zaheer, and four other clerics were
killed in a bomb blast in Lahore. The Shias were the
prime suspects.
(b)The following year, TNFJ leader Ariful
Hussaini was murdered in Peshawar.
(c)When the Shia town of Gilgit in the Northern Areas was attacked thatsame year by a Sunni lashkar, the Zia governmentappeared complicit since the civil and military law enforcement agencies made no attempt to intervene.


Would you relate these three with the following event

(d)Zia's death in a midair explosion in 1988

source : http://merln.ndu.edu/archive/icg/sectarianisminpakistan.pdf
THE STATE OF SECTARIANISM IN PAKISTAN Asia Report N°95 – 18 April 2005,International Crisis Group

Re: # 45

Dr Gill,
Spoken like a true democrat with the state of The State of Pakistan in heart. I wonder how many people here on chowk would even countenance "If the majority of people want Talbanization, let it be. I think esprit de corps is the essence of democracy".

Here is the thing - given that the taliba might come to power through the ballot box - what is there thatwould stop them from changing the rules to keep the power in their hands at all times?

... re "Wasn't his the clinching vote that got Mir Zafarullah Jamali elected as the PML-Q candidate for PM?"

I don't know anything about that, but Azam Tariq's influence was mostly limited to the Jhang area. It is though true that he had succeeded to create a large contingent of bombers and organizational network in most of Punjab who were blowing up Shia mosques. Maybe ISI felt that could come in handy. Therefore the mystery surrounding the disappearance of his two top deputies - Riaz Basra and Akram Lahori.

#50 Posted by viqarm,

The Sipah-e-Muhammad was disbanded through efforts of Allama Sajid Naqvi when he joined MMA. It was not a shia/sunni affair.

Another mystery to be solved:

US embassy official found dead in Islamabad

By Munawer Azeem

ISLAMABAD, Jan 28: A security officer of the US embassy was found dead in his residence on Monday.

The embassy said no “foul play” was involved, but senior police officers thought otherwise.

They said it was too early to determine from the bullet wound in the skull of Mr Keith Ryan whether it was a case of suicide or homicide.

Keith Ryan, 37, was due to return to the US on Monday.

According to hospital and police sources, the embassy stopped the authorities from conducting post-mortem after the body was shifted to the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences.

Doctors there were allowed to carry out an external examination only. The embassy officials said an autopsy would be carried out in Germany.

The incident came to light when the embassy staff arrived at the house of Keith Ryan, on Street 63, Sector F-7/3, to take him to Islamabad airport for a US-bound flight.

As no response came from inside the house, the staff called police at around 9am. When they entered the house with the policemen, they found Mr Ryan lying in a pool of blood in the bathroom, a loaded pistol lying nearby.

The police and the embassy officials collected fingerprints and other evidence before shifting the body to Pims.

Sources at the hospital said Mr Ryan had a bullet wound in the back of his head. The bullet was still lodged in his skull, according to doctors.

Had he committed suicide by shooting himself through the mouth, the bullet would have exited, according to the doctors.

The medico-legal department of the hospital has asked the management to conduct an autopsy.

Mr Ryan, a senior official of the US Department of Homeland Security, was born in 1970. He was posted to Pakistan in Nov 2006. The department was set up after the Sept 11, 2001, attacks to keep an eye on immigrants.

Mr Ryan’s designation was senior special agent.

He leaves behind his wife and three young children.

The Islamabad police, in a report to the federal government, ascribed the death to suicide, but said a final opinion would be given only after an investigation.

Re: # 49 Zee Sahib,
This is the first time I have heard of ISI doing the job on Azam Tariq. The word was he was done in by Sipah-e-Mohammad in the continuing proxy war between SA and Iran.

What would have the ISI/govt gained by eliminating Azam Tariq. Wasn't his the clinching vote that got Mir Zafarullah Jamali elected as the PML-Q candidate for PM?

#28 Posted by pavocavalry

... there are three aspects of benazirs death.the sipah i sahaba was hijacked by ISI once Azam Tariq was murdered by ISI and all suicide bombers of Sipah i Sahaba went to ISI control.9 bullets alone were pumped in Azam Tariqs heart.

Quite accurate re Azam Tariq. Also it appears the suicide bombers and acomplices are all turning out to be Lashkar-e-Jhangvi as per recent arrests (Sargodha Airforce bus, Lahore High Court Attack, Sherpao two attacks, Musharraf, Shaukat Aziz). Given that Azam Tariq was assasinated and leadership of the Jhangvi Faction was in control of Riaz Basra and Akram Lahori, both of whom were reported killed at-least three times in different encounters, but speculation is that they disappeared! As I recall Riaz Basra's mother had refused to confirm identification of the body and had said it was not him.

Yes, you're definitely on to something here.

Then are the Chaudries of Gujrat and off course the Musharraf junta.

The Gujrat Chaudhries are more and more in the grapevine, for very sinister dealings. The recent arrest and deportation of Ch. Wajahat at Gatwick while returning from Barcelona is a very curious incident. British police were actually tipped off and were waiting for him.

Also, Benazir had specifically named them in her letter to musharraf as trying to kill her.

Whatever people can blame president. Soon moment of truth is coming 18th feb and we will elected people and general will go back in nonactive prssident mode. Musharraf i going to deliver democracy to people of nation, and its up to awam to take given democracy by general or follow again army rule. First time army allowing and General is pioneer.

Re: # 9

No Sir, Army can be checked only by another army as shown by the Tiger Niazi bowing before Arora and not Mujib. ZAB had also raised an armed civil force called FSF to counterpoise the army but it failed to deliver as he was toppled before the Force could be equipped with heavy arms like tanks and mortar guns.

#45 Posted by freethinker on January 28, 2008 3:59:10 pm


If the majority wants to ruin Pakistan in the name of Islam, let them decide.


that won't happen because if, allah forbid, the pious people of the the land of the pure were to demand more islam and not less, that would make your elite look pretty bad when they're at parties in the west...and we all know they won't stand for it..

VRV: #44

The situation in Pakistan is really complex. Musharraf can help by holding a fair election and then stepping down. He should announce that he isn’t having any political stake, before the elections are held, and that he would step down after the elections.

If the majority of people want Talbanization, let it be. I think esprit de corps is the essence of democracy. If the majority wants to ruin Pakistan in the name of Islam, let them decide. But I like to believe that this wouldn’t happen. Majority of the people would choose to keep religion where it belongs – at a personal level. The moderate Islam (however it may be described) will prevail. But as I said in the article that if the country is doomed, Musharraf alone cannot save it.

Mohammad Gill

Dr. Gill,

It's like a jigsaw puzzle.

If Musharraf goes, Pak Taliban is not going to go away, which is the threat to the state of Pakistan as we know.

If Mush stays, the elected PM wud be anybody but if it's Sharifff, he's not going to work with Musharraf and there'd a crisis again.

If Pervez Ilahi becomes the PM, then hoi polloi is going to get restive and Pakistan wud not look any rosier.

In the meanwhile the marching Taliban wud knock the doors of Rawalpindi which wud pave the way for a potential Taliban Raj which may look outlandish now but not impossible though.

Pak Army of late is reminding me the French Army of WWII (no pun intended) given the spate of surrenders. Milbus adds to the complexity of the issue.

The inter-provincial tensions (esp in Baluchistan and the situation in Sindh after the assassination of Benazir) among the federating units make Pakistan look similar to Afghanistan (where Persians, Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Tadjiks and other enthincities live uneasily under one name i.e Afghanistan).

To sum up, the situation in Pakistan can be summarized in one word i.e 'extended instability' & Musharraf's exit is not going to make the picture any better.

Re: # 42 HP, HP you and zeemax are like two peas in a pod....the same idiomatic english...

But I see you are a fan of Eric Margolis and Ambassador Dean. Note the article where this first appeared (the World Policy Journal) removed the allegation from Barbara Crossette’s reflection on the incident.

Lets face it Zia's death is a mystery - he died in a plane incident. Bhutto and others - had the hands of Zia/Army, Bibi herself (according to Pak Newspapers), and now the Pak-Taliban-ISI.

Maybe you do subscribe the wild theories floating in http://www.ishipress.com/happened.htm

#38 Posted by iron_mask
"you need to go beyond the whispers.
When a statement like is made, it demands evidence and proof for it to stand on its own. "

Its like I said if you don't know, you don't know or don't get it.

This is perhaps a Pakistani secret no one is allowed in.
We know and you don't ....that is the end of the story!

Re: # 22 Posted by Kamath on January 28, 2008 5:42:01 am

Kamath sahib,

[Why put all the blame on General(R) Musharraf?]

Past crooks do not justify to have present day crooks, or does it? As they say in the financial world, "past performance is no guarantee of future results."

[After all the mess Pakistan is in today has been caused by mostly other powerful guys.] who were in the bureaucracy since 1947 (read the mohajirs) and they should also be held accountable of the corruption that we have in Pakistan.

[Corrupt politicians, Stupid religious and finally by Army Guys.] You conveniently leave out the bureaucrats, why?

[What personal glory or rewards are going to be reaped by General(R) Mush.? None.]

O! why are you so naive beta? look around all the army-wallas are running defence housing society, wapda, etc. suddenly they are the brightest tolas of the world. these people are nothing but a group of Mafias.

[He has learnt from his mistakes and there is no one around to take charge of the country at this time- especially against home grown Talibans!]

we have a saying "dhobhee ka kutta, na ghar kaa, na ghaat ka"? does it apply here, maybe it does not. let me try another one "kuutay kaa dhum kabhee seedhee nahin hogee"

[Leave him alone and get rid of him later after 5 years if you don't like!] array waa ray wah, you want the crooks to continue for another 5 years, or so. I am just surprised that Pakistanis who are abroad do not have enough courage to stand together united and get rid of these people. It took only i year for the international Iranian community to get rid of the Shah of Iran. And in Pakistan, these people are still ruling.

sometimes i despair at the state of pakistan...Allah help us!
until someone destroys the power of those who rule -i.e. feudals and army we will never get out of this rut. when will be have a real Renaissance of our own?

sigh...

Re: # 38 it should be


"Re: # 30 HP boss, thats like saying the illuminati or the freemasons or some other shadow_in_the_mind_organisation did it."

Re: # 30 HP boss, thats like the illuminati or the freemasons or some other shadow_in_the_mind_organisation did it....you need to go beyond the whispers.
When a statement like is made, it demands evidence and proof for it to stand on its own. If zeemax made such a statement in a paper or an article he would be laughed out of the place - and a referee who supports it with your cryptic statement even more so. (note: this is also your argument with Pavocavalry - is it not 8-) )

So let us all hear it and be done with it.

Zeemax sahib:

It is very interesting, how people start speaking their mind, when they feel their end is near. Probably they have everything to gain.

Can there be a single peson or his successors who link these incidences with Bhutto, Zia and BB?

Massaddi Mian should read the article that HP Mian has put, as he thinks, lives and busily creates Third World. He can improve his knowledge about the new tomorrow.

He should remember that is not Ole' MacDonald had a farm.. and a chick, chick here and a chick chick there. It is Elites of China, and Europe. It is Elites of Brazil, India, Russia and Middle East.

It is Elites here and Elites there. It's Elites everywhere. He would see the reality if he gives up the 7th century to Mills par course.

correct link to #33: http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2008/01/resign-musharraf-resign.html

There is an interesting article in NYT magazine by Parag Vohra...nay by Parag Khanna. He discusses some new ideas and is well worth reading and figuring out the new issues that are coming up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/magazine/27world-t.html?ex=1359176400& ; ;en=
1af8c9c386cc212d&ei=5124&partner=
permalink&exprod=permalink

From "The Emergency Times", Jan 28 2008

Resign Musharraf, Resign!
By JEMIMA KHAN
...The effects of protests are rarely immediate or even measurable. What demonstrations do is to change the weather. And the weather changes the landscape. Protests invariably move from the extreme to the mainstream.

Sometimes, though, they really do what they say on the banners. Gandhi's march to the sea to make salt marked the beginning of the push to remove the British from India; the Suffragettes did get the vote for women; the Peasant's Revolt did change the feudal system; and the Anti-Slavery Movement did do away with slavery. They are all
examples of what demonstrations hope to achieve: the mass power of the individually powerless.

Tomorrow I will be protesting Gordon Brown's continued support for Pakistan's dictator. I will be joined by politicians, lawyers, doctors, human rights activists, journalists and ordinary Pakistanis who want to know what happened to New Labour's "ethical foreign
policy". Our equivalents in Pakistan have been denied the same right to protest. Many hundreds remain in prison - some tortured. We can't read about it because the media in Pakistan remains restricted.

Brown and Musharraf are planning to discuss democracy..
How can they seriously discuss the "democratic process in Pakistan" with straight faces when 60 percent of the Superior Court judges have been dismissed and many are still under house arrest? How can "free and fair elections" take place in three weeks under the supervision of hand-picked substitute judges, a pet caretaker government and a bogus election Commission? Why is our Government supporting and our taxpayers funding a counter-terrorism strategy that has encouraged terrorism? Above all, why has our Prime Minister chosen to host a constitutionally illegal ruler who has lost the support of Pakistanis both in Britain and abroad, and who is seen as the cause not the solution to the country's problems? ...It is more likely that we will just make ourselves heard. But who knows? 2008 may yet turn out to be Pakistan's 1968. Inshallah.

Monday, midday, Downing Street. Effigies supplied.

[Ms. Jemima (Goldsmith) Khan is a leader of the Free Pakistan Movement
(FPM) based in London, UK.]

http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2008/01/resign-musharraf-resign.h tml

that should be "plus sum situation", btw in #31.

ironmask: OK i checked the video. nice. but the words you provide below basically are true - though only they are part of the truth:

"Everybody's looking for something" True

"Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused" True - but only for "Some of them". Leaves out the increasing number of people who look beyond this "zero-sum game" of human history that is driving poor masadi nuts to a "zero-plus situation" - one where material wants are easily satisfied, and humans aspire to higher things - whether it is human society based on rules (as the struggle for the rule of law in Pakistan by the thin red line of lawyers is all about), or whether it is scientific exploration and colonization of the planets and asteroids and moons or harnessing the energy of the sun. This is the "real frontier" where no one needs to abuse anyone.

#29 Posted by iron_mask

"Re: # 27 zeemax who are these people you suspect?"

If you don't know then you don't know much about Pakistan.
Connect the dots of all the murders and you would know who Zeemax is referring to.

Re: # 27 zeemax who are these people you suspect?

You are a first class conspiracy theorist. Come on, zee mini, tell us all and support this spurious allegation aimed at no one but still full of nasty innuendo!

and while you are at at it...I would recommend you listen to this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw4aA (as i suggested to Tahmed32)

Re: # 27 there are three aspects of benazirs death.the sipah i sahaba was hijacked by ISI once Azam Tariq was murdered by ISI and all suicide bombers of Sipah i Sahaba went to ISI control.9 bullets alone were pumped in Azam Tariqs heart.Then are the Chaudries of Gujrat and off course the Musharraf junta.

#23 Posted by freethinker,

Thanks for the clarification. Actually, Benazir was killed by the same people who killed her father, her brothers, and Zia. I don't know if they have anything against Musharraf at the moment, but they might in the future.

will do, iron mask. soon as i am done listening to old indian songs going on right now while trying to pretend i am working!!

Re: # 24



tahmed32.....I just heard this song on the radio; go here to see the video as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw4aA

Who am I to disagree?
Travel the world and the seven seas
Everybody's looking for something
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused

Musharraf is increasingly irrelevant anyway - particularly now that the military has started distancing itself from him (latest being kiyani's pledge that the military will not get involved in current elections (contrary to musharraf's talk about soldiers "shooting to kill" to keep current elections "peaceful" - a direct but hopefully an empty threat to force musharraf's men into power).

We need to start thinking beyond musharraf - we need to make sure that military dictatorship is replaced by true rule of law and restoration of the judiciary. Otherwise, we will simply replace one thug (musharraf) with another (civilian dictator who subverts the constitution like nawaz sharif tried to do last time, like zardari has already done by making PPP seem like a Bhutto family necklace, rather than a national party that belongs to the people and is subject to the will of the people, not the will of benazir (with all due respect to her supreme sacrifice).

zeemax: #17

I didn't say army will kill him. He might be assassinated by the kind of people who killed BB.

Mohammad Gill

Why put all the blame on General(R) Musharraf? After all the mess Pakistan is in today has been caused by mostly other powerful guys. Corrupt politicuans, Stupid releigios and finally by Army Guys.

What personal glory or rewards are going to be reaped by General(R) Mush.? None. He has learnt from his mistakes and there is no one around to take charge of the country at this time- especially against home grown Talibans! Leave him alone and get rid of him later after 5 years if you don't like!

Kamath

I dont think he will lose his life... I think he will be sent to a mental institution...

While going through the Dawn pages, I saw this reference in Irfan Hussain's article. The reference was to an article by someone called Shekhar Gupta of the I.E, and the title was "Junta versus Janata" http://www.indianexpress.com/story/257744._.html it makes sense - in fact the last paragraph is very sensible and something which I think needs to read and reiterated here:

"a modern nation needs democracy and so it needs its politicians, however clumsy, corrupt, effete and power-crazed they may be. Because a military dictator can also be all of these things. The difference is, the political leader draws his power from the democratic process, so he has a stake in preserving that system, howsoever cynical he may be. The general draws his power by throttling the democratic system and its institutions and you can see the results of that in Pakistan. So, in a democracy, howsoever powerful a Lalu or Mayawati, they have to shut up and listen when the Supreme Court speaks. The election commission can publicly upbraid both Sonia Gandhi and Narendra Modi. We, the media, can question and curse who we want. It happens because the political class has the biggest stake in the democratic process, howsoever much it may wish to manipulate it. In contrast, a military dictator owes his power to the absence of institutions, of checks and balances. That is exactly what Musharraf has done to his judiciary, the election commission and even the media. That is why he has to summon the Scotland Yard to investigate Benazir’s assassination.
"

Here is the thing - Musharuff is on tour trying to convince the world of a number of things (you can change the order as you like)

(a) Pakistan can be trusted
(b) Pakistan is with you
(c) I can deliver
(d) WTF are you guys doing by making India a member of the UNSC (note China, UK, France have publiclly said they support the case).


In reality what can be done is that there is coup in Pakistan as we are discussing this right now - and the Prez's plane turned around and sent elsewhere (or Mushy goes to DC without even going back). - I agree with arjun_5's sentiment but think for the sake of Pakistan it should be brought forward.

Bringing it forward will make
(a) Zeemax and his lot happy
(b) also ensure that Nanga Pir's comment (which HP from insightful) come true.

In fact (a) and (b) are connected - only the timetable will be brought forward.

in #16 HP asks (nanga pir)

Your posts are cryptic but insightful. Yes, I agree that as the central authority in Pakistan wanes, local militias would take over. Now if the army is disbanded, there is nothing to deter these militias. How do you propose that should be handled?

Man, which world are you living in: I am sure zeemax and his friends are laughing their balls off when you ask "How do you propose that should be handled?" There is no question of handling. Militias taking over will mean lots of little countries/republics fiiling the vacumn - you could have the Jamsaheb of Lahore, Sultan Rawal of Pindi, Pir Dawood of Karachi etc etc. HP it cannot be handled - for once you militias forget pakistan!

Pakistan unfortuantely could not forge for itself an identity in the last 60 years. All the politicians have failed their exams (you guys recall./remember the nyumber of times the politicians and the elite called ont he army to take over the coutnry because they couldnot stand Bibi, or Nawaz or some combination), and the federatred structure will will work if it is not loose....

the biggest pity in all of this is that the solution staring in the face was never implemented - Lop-sided states should never exist in a country - in Pakistan's case Punjab is not just an elephant in the room, a bull in a china shop, or the 600lb gorrilla - it is all of these. The state of Punjab should have been divisioned for all sorts of reasons - aat the very least it woud have brought some political parity with the other states.

#17 Posted by zeemax on January 28, 2008 2:02:46 am


I think eventually he will be exiled.


mushy's timing is impeccable. The housing market in the US is at an all time low. He can probably get a finished basement, jacuzzi and a flat screen TV free if he agrees to move in by the end of the year...

Gill Saheb,

Musharraf in case of an army coup, I don't think the coup-makers will consider it necessary to physically eliminate him because he has no power base of which anyone would be concerned. I think eventually he will be exiled.

#11 Posted by NangaPir
"it will not be long when the western supports dries out and we will have local militias everywhere. God forbid that time when we will have gangs everywhere. We need to disband army,"

Your posts are cryptic but insightful. Yes, I agree that as the central authority in Pakistan wanes, local militias would take over. Now if the army is disbanded, there is nothing to deter these militias. How do you propose that should be handled?

My solution would be to keep a loose federation and let the provincial powerhouses such as the PPP in Sindh, ANP in Part of NWFP, Baloch nationalists in Balochistan and perhaps a united ML take over the Punjab!

Pakistan is headed for difficult times mainly due to the army and the army wants to take advantage of its position in the area to drive a hard bargain with the US. Would the US stand for it? I doubt that very much!

Re: # 13 Liquit Ali khan did all and good acts get always punished , he was slaughterd by elites of that time.

Re: # 12
Dear Mr. Madani,

I ask everyone here not to get abusive and follow the Interact rules of CHOWK. By the way, I don't get paid to do this! And when did I abuse you?

We have different opinions about the Mush-Bush mashed potato thing. And what has cinema (Reema, Saima, Resham etc.) got to do with all this?

Angelina Jolie did meet with Mush along with her husband (who must have been looking the other way) to discuss our for-RUNN policy!

Peace.

Re: # 10
Dear Urs Truly,
Most of the suggestions you gave were being put into practise by Liaqat Ali Khan long ago. Basically, the FO (foreign office) cannot utter these two alphabets to its controllers and handlers! :)

Now who wants to be blown up in Liaqat Bagh?

Booom....

Re: # 3 Good morning Mr.Tahir.
If you feel good be my guest and go on abusing me and feel good for my english prblems.

I may be idiot and "mad" but I find general standing and protecting Pakistan , a hero of kargil ( oh yes failures have no father as they). You have any stand bye stooge to replace. Can you mention any you know and how they are better. Honestly except altaf hussain and to some extent president all others for last 60 years are useless, even my last hero was demolished throghly by masadi logically. No body missed any leader after they are and if you shot all leaders and fed to sharks nobody will cry. It is truth. Actually we people deserve what we get. Now one person is trying to save you call him dictector. He is standig against Talibs as if he is killed as retired engineer wants ( masadi has clealy shown many time this us spoiled writers are just copy stuff and paste as theirs, in that way Raw agent Arjun is straight forward). When talibs take your they will be checking liberals and shooting them first for having shaved faces. Now all liberals are supporting and cheering talibs. Now general is try best to help p.stan by pleasing usa and same time keep talibs alive the mutusl coexistance is cold peace as Omar mullah values services offered and know at same time general will not press to hard. So as liberal wants O.Mullah takes over will have friendly regime and they understand "majburi". Anyway General is only person keeping both Americans at bay ( at same time pick pocketing american wallets) and Talibans not too unhappy and friendly not hostile.
As they said its very complex things and you and i can not understand inside deals. So its better to be left to president who knows all.

also we have stupid people who are worried about movies/ indian . ( there no movies but indian movies here and learned people worry about machinary brought and money involved) Now people who have no even goatbrains worry when talibs are on offensive and balochi terrorists are blowing electic wires and gas lines and railway. Now even layman like me do not understand why give opportunity for terroe to blow this things, why not burry 2o feet down in earth. What we have is all chors, they want more blast more work.

Any way we need genearl as there are areas and intelluctual who are stupid or mad.
look at learned editor.
Second Editorial: Anyone for a cinema in Islamabad?

The Pakistan National Council of the Arts (PNCA) in Islamabad has tried but failed to get enough support for the opening of a cinema. The capital is without a cinema while there is a proliferation of mosques and hostile madrassas there. The site of the cinema was to be inside the National Arts Gallery which the president has helped open against the wishes of everyone including the Islamised bureaucracy and the government. The PNCA thought it could revive cinema-going in a highly Islamised Islamabad by holding a South Asian film festival. But it can’t get a sponsor for the shows and is therefore stuck with the cinema equipment it has imported and has been holding on to for the last many years.

Those who fear that Pakistan might go under to the terrorists look at Islamabad’s intensely radical Islamist population and draw their conclusions. However, cinemas all over Pakistan have shut down in great numbers. Pakistan used to make over 200 films a year; it is now making barely 12. But the mosques are full with people on all five occasions during the day and spill over on Fridays. Meanwhile, people are watching films on VCRs as forbidden pleasure while the masses lack all entertainment. Is Pakistan ripe for the plucking? *"

When idiots will know no time for movies.
Anyway stupid will get what they want ( removing general) and then will cry for next twenty years.

Tahir you can be polite to elder people with saying bad things.
"

Don't you see that the western model of armies in the world especially in the Muslim world is falling apart? Hamas, Hizbe Ullah and Taliban are holding the nuclear powers at bay. The ex-service men are trying to save this disaster but it will not be long when the western supports dries out and we will have local militias everywhere. God forbid that time when we will have gangs everywhere. We need to disband army, prosecute ISI, hang generals for their crimes against humanity and form a national army.

Unfortunately a time of national reconciliation has come and gone for good. The Pakistani nation will be harvesting what this regime has sowed for next couple of decades - and unfortunately it is nothing but guilloutines. It is going to be extremely painful next two decades. However, there is a way that we can reduce this pain. The Pakistani nation must:

1. Ditch the Bitch: This dictator has become a liability for each and every party involved in the tragedy that is called pakistan today - not only for people of Pakistan, but military, their foreign masters, and dictator's own civilian underlings.

2. Re-establish the deposed judiciary.

3. Re-constitute the election commission.

4. Fouj must stop masacares in Waziristan, swat, and Baluchistan. All citizens must be given unconditional amnesty.

5. Realease all 20,000+ "disappeared" Pakistani citizens with an apology and full compensation. All Pakistani citizens who were illegally handed over to US and Europeans and they are being tortured in their internments camps all over the globe must be brought back.

6. All Pakistani citizens in Blauchistan, Waziristan, and Swat must be given full compenastion for the damage to their properties and Qisas and Diyat for the lives and limbs lost.

7. Fouj must unconditionally apologize to whole Pakistani nation for its crimes ahgainst nation and constitution and seek forgiveness through a National Reconcilliation Commission.

8. An interim government must be formed for six months that will ensure that free and fare elections will be held without interference from criminal elements in fouj and civilians.

9. Pakistan must build a wall at Pak-Afghan border.

10. All American bases on Pakistani soil must be abolished.

11. The 99 year lease of thousands of acres of land near Thatta to US must be annulled and re-estabilshed as Pakistani soveriegn territory.

12. Fouj must go back to the cantonment kennels, and all corps commanders must be administered with rabbies shots.

13. All the plots, and property acquired by fouj and their civilian underlings in the past 10 years must confiscated by government.

Will all this ease the pain. No. But it will make it bearabale. Otherwise, no man, no woman, no child is safe in Pakistan. There will be guillotines, just like one that was for Benazir.

Lets build our institutions of democracy withOUT let or hinderance from the army.

# 5,
You say, "Asking the most powerful institution to submit to an audit is akin to asking a four-legged lion to donate his lunch to two-legged beasts."

Then why does it happen in all other civilised countries? why do we have tolerate a rouge army usurping our internal resources and trampling over our constitution?

I have enough respect in our civilians to hold the army accountable. Lets not sell ourselves short further by saying it is not in us. Democracy has to be revived in Pakistan.

We have had this army rule thrust upon again and again, raping our politics and intellectual thinking. We have had to come up with army's hard ceiling pressing aginst us. Nawaz Sharif and other politicians before him ,including a Z A Bhutto, had to also come up in this environemnt .

When you canot build tradition of democarcy , weird things do happen.. In Russain after the break up of the USSR , a mafioso class came about and is still prevalent in the political economy...

Lets build our institutions of democracy with let or hinderance from the army.

#6 Posted by blithe on January 27, 2008 12:22:16 pm


Musharraf has amassed over USD 10mio in land allotments for himself


if he did, he only did it because he had no choice.

http://www.chowk.com/articles/4648

# 4, for a fact they were not.
One of the reasons Mushrraf (with a non conscience army) desecrated the Supreme Court was because the Chief Justice was going to take up cases of farm houses being illegally built by officer on non-designated land (this also included Musharraf's plot).

Musharraf has amassed over USD 10mio in land allotments for himself (research done ny Ayshea Sideqa). He has land in phase 8 Lahore and he has a agricultural acreage in Bhawalpur.

The reason that his core commanders have stayed quite over his clowning around with Country is because Musharraf fed enough candy/ land to keep them quite (the anlogy is between a corrupt board that losses it indpendece to keep a check on the CEO) Each core commanded is multi-millionaire too.

This is unprecedented and blatant and institutionalized corruption.

The guy who dresses himself up in the Pakistan Flag and calls his passion to be Pakistan, is anything but selfless.

Re: # 1

"Nawaz Sharif calls to make the army's budget accountable to parliment is very necessary?"

Seriously? Whose product is Nawaz anyway?

In the parliament all are related top to bottom in one way or the other. Asking the most powerful institution to submit to an audit is akin to asking a four-legged lion to donate his lunch to two-legged beasts.

Peace.

#1 Posted by blithe on January 27, 2008 10:07:10 am


Musharraf made the army officers so fatish, vulgar, power hungry, criminally rich, overnight land barrons, etc.


Right..because the paki army officers weren't into the whole prime real estate entitlement thing before mushy took power...

mmmmkay...

Re: # 2

Mr. Madani,

May other CHOWKies forgive you for the typos, the grammar and the syntax; I can't. How could you suggest that 'Everybody should hope and help president to carry us to dream of democracy.'

He has wet dreams, don't you know? And please don't side with dictators and stooges.

Peace.

It sad recist remark by punjabi expak and exctement for people to kill president Musharraf. He has already declared he will be killed unless the leaves his post.( let us hope this professy does not become reality, you have seen anger of Sindhi awam who went on buring all railequipment, and banks, even best of MQM leadership will not be able to control millions of sindhi followers hindustani borned president,Karach will be nonfuctional.Hope punjabi recists desits from bad dreams, do not start fires it burn you. Let president have his tenure and after 5 years he will be gone and nobody remember as any gone presidents and prime ministers. PPP walas were saying same thing but fate is strange BB went to meet maker and general is dandy strong and going for foreign trips and Amerca stands like big wall behind him solidly.
President will expire his term in 5 years , 5 years is nothing, why not let things move slowly and deliberately as he has become locomotive for pakistan and pulling country ( a thankless job for ungrateful people)out to real democracy after long time ? Everybody should hope and help president to carry us to dream of democracy.

Musharraf made the army officers so fatish, vulgar, power hungry, criminally rich, overnight land barrons, etc., but I am glad to see that a certain segment in the army is using its intellect and looking beyond plum posting and dogma and army indoctrination, and raising its voice for Pakistan .

I want to see the army totakky shed its mercenary tendancies .... but this change will come from the outside, not withing ..(there are too many intelectually corrupt within). Nawaz Sharif's call to make the army's budget accountable to parliment is very necessary..