What is Hinduism? A Personal View

#117 &132 DM Saheb, You’re very gracious in accepting others’ opinions, however insignificant. So I permit myself to contradict you on Shoresheb’s comment: "I wonder why India failed to adopt more simple, evolved and practical message of Sikhism and why approx 1 billion people of this earth follow very complicated Hinduism..??"

Religions were always social laws, invented, or ‘communiacted by God’ to respond to a situation where the existing laws were not judged sufficient by some free thinker of the time. To make them acceptable by general public as Vatsyayan says – ‘ Mahajano yen gatah se panthah’, they were given a divine sheen.

Mohammed saheb, a peace preacher in earlier part of his life became a warrior, much like Krishna, when he did not succeed peacefully. Sikhism and Guru Nanak and other gurus who followed were no exception. Heteroclitic society of Buddhists and then later Bhaktiyogis were buckling under the organized aggressivity of Invaders. Society of that time naturally threw up sikhism,copying some of the traits and rituals of agressors to face them; like a divine book….which can bind together locals.

If the society today is not folowing Sikhism, it is probably because Kripan, Kara, .. etc are no more required. If one could live without making clans, then individual free thinking takes over after a while.

Earlier Advait Vedanta of Shankar was also invented to face off monotheistic faiths and it adopted some of their traits. One indication may be that Shankar and other such Advaitis were born and active on the Malabar coast of India which we having regular exchange commerce and … Ideas across arabian sea with M. east.

Re: # 27
"You mean you did a head count?? What about the certitude of millions who walk all the way to Tirupati or Vaishno Devi??'

Ans: Most of the tamples constructued in mediaval age (post islamic/barbaric invsastion) are on the hill top not to be looted/destructed by barbaric moslems. The temples, which were constructed in areas like Orissa and South India are mostly in crowded locality (where barbarism/islam was not able to reach). The story of Thirupati Balaji is written in the temple itself. ( to avoid descretion by barbarians/moslems, it was shifted to the current location and the seven hill area is property of TTD board.
After the british had kicked out moslems, people started constructing temples on crwded localities closed to pond or river or some form of waterbody.

Re: # 82
Karachi is the dirtiest city on earth...
Moslems are despised by Indians for being dirty ( mlechha)...

Re: # 133
Modernity has automatically killed some distateful ancient cultural or ritualistic aspects assciated with Hinduism - like sati, caste system etc.

Ans: First of all, there is nothing called religion, what Indians follow. There is nothing like holy book. Nothing like prophet.
Dharma means 'duty'. It should not be mixed with religion.
BTW, there is nowhere in Indian classical books, the terms "Hindu " is written.
Somebody was talking about sati, cow urine etc... These are rituals and varies with time and place. These rituals, which we are supposed to follow from Rigveda and Sumveda is not followed properly.

The most important thing of how you to define a Hindu:

You can say "Oye Bagwana tu phuddu hai, painchoo ha etc".

Late on u can say sorry and then say "Boss sorry, shraab vadh ho gai si".

Sikhs and esp Khalsa are no longer full Hindus as they cannot say this.

One who is not Muslai, Isai, Parsi or Jew is Hindu.

Sanatani

Dear Dost

I liked it and am fascinated with the subject. I guess the belief in ancient times was considered a personal affairs & was never defined. The scietific age brought in the need to define everything.

Beauty of Hinduism is in its simplicity, universality, vagueness, acceptance of other beliefs & its total voluntary aspect. You may believe in a Diety or you may not. You may pray or you may not pray. But it provides plenty of stories & tales to emphasise the good & evil - and a guidance to coalse within a society & live a peaceful life.

Modernity has automatically killed some distateful ancient cultural or ritualistic aspects assciated with Hinduism - like sati, caste system etc.

Since ages, the ignorant & confused man looked towards the nature & tried to find an answer to all this.

Two main theories got propounded - Dharmic & Abrahamic.

Dharmic followers (Hindues, Jains, Budhists, Sihks) believed in re-incarnation. Add Karma to it.

Abrahamic followers(Judaism, Christianiy, Islam) believed in heaven & hell & day of judgement. Add Satan to it.

Rest all was local variations, reformations, additions, changes by followers as the time passed. In most cases, the
belief was made more miserable for the followers.

Though muslim by Birth, Dharmic faiths strongly appeal me. My forefathers may have been poor, uncultured or uncooth but they were not dogmatic.

regards

NHK

nature_lover#117:

I agree with you entirely about the Sikh religion.

"I wonder why India failed to adopt more simple, evolved and practical message of Sikhism and why approx 1 billion people of this earth follow very complicated Hinduism..??"

I believe the answer would be that Sikhism is not an actively prosleytising religion, although it is willing to accept anyone in its fold.

The Sikh gurus preached their message in Punjab and that's where it had its impact. And their impact is larger than the number of Sikhs in Punjab. Most Punjabi Hindus hold Sikh gurus and scriptures in great reverence. I am in Delhi these days and there are more TV channels broadcasting Sikh shabads and gurbani than even Hindu bhajans. And in every Punjabi village, you will find Hindus more likely to visit a gurudwara than a mandir.

Yes, it is a pity that more Hindus did not follow the Sikh religion; it retains all of the nice features of Hinduism but none of its negative features.

As far cow urine, like Shoresaheb, I do not know any Hindu who imbibes cow urine. However, I understand that it is used in some ayurvedic medicines.

nature_lover#117:

I agree with you entirely about the Sikh religion.

"I wonder why India failed to adopt more simple, evolved and practical message of Sikhism and why approx 1 billion people of this earth follow very complicated Hinduism..??"

I believe the answer would be that Sikhism is not an actively prosleytising religion, although it is willing to accept anyone in its fold.

The Sikh gurus preached their message in Punjab and that's where it had its impact. And their impact is larger than the number of Sikhs in Punjab. Most Punjabi Hindus hold Sikh gurus and scriptures in great reverence. I am in Delhi these days and there are more TV channels broadcasting Sikh shabads and gurbani than even Hindu bhajans. And in every Punjabi village, you will find Hindus more likely to visit a gurudwara than a mandir.

Yes, it is a pity that more Hindus did not follow the Sikh religion; it retains all of the nice features of Hinduism but none of its negative features.

As far cow urine, like Shoresaheb, I do not know any Hindu who imbibes cow urine. However, I understand that it is used in some ayurvedic medicines.

HP,

Have you never heard of Multhanaspura or the Saraswati River?

"Kautilya, the Hindu Machiavelli, spoke of the "thousand Yojanas (leagues) of land that stretch from the Himalayas to the sea" as "the proper domain of chakravartia patha (a single universal emperor)". This north-south (vertical) lay-out of the land of Bharata has been well summed up in the famous aphorism: Himalachala stu paryantum, i.e. from Himalayas to the end of land (Rameswaram). Vishnu Purana (11. 127-9) gives the geo-political reason for the vertical lay-out of Bharat; it states:

On the east of Bharata dwell the Kiratas (the barbarians); on the west, the Yavanas (the outlandish Greeks/ Bactrians); in the centre reside Brahmans, Kshatriyas, Vaishayas and Sudras.

To protect the blue-blooded Aryans from the contamination of the 'demonaic' (Ashuras), 'wild' and 'carrion-eating' (Paisachas) and outlandish (Yavana)--people of the western wing and the 'barbaric' and 'boorish' Kirates, Pundras and Vangas of the eastern marginal land, the Hindu shastras laid down strict rules. The Dharma Sutra (II, 1.2.2) of Baudhayana states:

Who visits the country of the Arattas (the Punjab), or of the Pundras and Vangas (Northern and Eastern Bengal) must perform a purificatory sacrifice. "

These aholes now have a claim on Indus civilization!

"The Hindus never built any holy city or temple or regarded any river in the current Pakistan sacred. The Punjab Gaztteer Vol. XX says that "the Punjab can show but few Hindu antiquities." It may be noted that the remains of pre-Vedic (Indus Valley Civilization) and Buddhist periods are found in Pakistan but not of the Hindu period which came between the two and again appeared to a limited extent after the fall of Buddhism."

#117, #118
As this cow urine drinking story is thrown up every once in a while, let us put it in right perspective. Hindus don’t drink cow urine as a religious practice. But it constitutes a part of the Ayurveda – Indian natural medicine of which many muslims and christians are also adept.

Urine of a cow, which has recently given birth is considered having great medicinal value for various liver & other digestive ailments. It is given after purification and not more than a spoonful. My own brother was brought back to life when he was 2 years old and doctors had given up on him only on cow urine as medication combined with some herbs.

#124 Double post. Sorr, dunno how it got there.

"The Jat's spirit of freedom and equality refused to submit to Brahminical Hinduism and in its turn drew the censure of the privileged Brahmins of the Gangetic plain who pronounced that 'No Aryan should stay in the Punjab for even two days because the Punjabis refused to obey the priests (A History of Sikhs, by Kushwant Singh).

The inroads of those foreigners blotted out the memory of the memory of the Aryan immigration from the North-West (i.e. Pakistan) which is not traceable either in the popular puranic literature or in the oral traditions of the people. To the east of Sutlej (i.e. India) the Aryans were usually safe from foreign invasions and free to work out their own way of life undisturbed. They proceeded to do so and thus to create Hinduism with its inseparable institution of caste (Oxford History of India, by VA Smith, 3rd edition, edited by Percival Spear).

It is noteworthy that according to the Bandayana Dharma Shastra the Indus Valley was considered impure and outside the limits of Aryandom proper. Any one who went there had to perform sacrifices of purification on return. (Tribes in Ancient India, by BC Law) "

"The Brhat-Samhita mentions Vokkana country as situated in the western region of Indian subcontinent (Pakistan). In chapter XVI, V.35, Varaha Mihira includes the Vokkana among those belonging to Rahu, together with barbarians, evil-doers and the like (Roruka: was it Moenjodaro? by Pranavitana, Studies in asian History: Proceedings of the Asian History Congress held at New Delhi in 1961).

In later vedic literature there are references to confederation of un-Aryan tribes living in the north-east and north-west of the sub-continent in the first half of the 1st millennium B.C. Pundra and Vanga in Bengal, Madra in the Ravi-Chenab Doab (The Peoples of Pakistan, by Yu Gankovsky).

While the Aryans by now expanded far into India their old home in the Punjab and the north-west was practically forgotten. Later Vedic literature mentions it rarely and then usually with disparagement and contempt, as an impure land where the Vedic sacrifices are not performed (The Wonder that was India, by AL Basham).

Both Buddhism and Jainism flourished in Sind and it had revolted against the superiority of Brahmins. They ignored their Gods and denied the Vedas (Sindhi Culture, by UT Thakur). "

HP,

They say that the inhabitants of the indus valley were dravidians?

#121 Posted by vengatramanan
"They say that the inhabitants of the indus valley were dravidians?"

yes. Some were. They still live in Dadu district and in tharparkar and along the coast! I am not sure whether the Aryan and Dravidian distinction strictly apply in Sindh!