What is Hinduism? A Personal View

Salim_Chauhan,

Correction bro. 'Rabb ul Aalameen' is the attribute, not the name. The name is 'Allah'.

But thanks for mentioning this. It further clarifies my point in #264.

Eklavya #259 {"Urstruly, is Allah exactly the same as Khuda?"}

Kaal Bhayya,
As you know very well yourself, for people whose mother tongue is Urdu, both Khuda and Allah are interchangeable. The first is of Farsi origin while the latter is Arabic. Ya Khuda or Ya Allah are equally used.

Eklavya, Urstruly,

This is just one of the small differences I have with our much respected Urstruly. Allah is not the same as Khuda, or Rabb. Allah cannot be called by any name other than perhaqps the 99 attributes given in Qura'an. As per strict interpretation of Ikhlas, Allah is incomparable, nor likened to anything, hence cannot even be translated in any language.

But then perhaps it is a technical issue and not really material as long as one understands the essence.

#261 Urstruly {"Rabb is Panjabi word for God (probably borrowed from Arabic in turn). "}

Urs,
Not probably borrowed, but definitely borrowed. Rabb is Arabic as in Rabb il Aalameen. :) or Muslim names like Abdur Rabb,

Urstruly, I disagree. Hope we won't accuse all those sincere Muslims who have given up on Khuda in favor of Allah to be fools, or brainwashed.

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GT, if they really care for their traditions and their beliefs, then they can live together only if they are blind as bats with sonar missing, as Gandhi-Nehru were.

I have asked this one question probably a dozen times, at least, without EVER getting an answer. WHAT political settlement would have been simultaneously satsifactory to both Muslims and Hindus in 1947?

Slightly different topic, but sociopolitical issues are as religious as personal ones - probably more.

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If they are aware of themselves, then Hindus and Muslims, as large groups, can 'live together' only so long as one large group totally, overwhelmingly dominates the other, or both large groups are dominated by a third party.

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There is absolutely no such limitation on individuals, or just a handful of individuals.

Re: # 259

yes, "Khuda" is the persian word for God just like Rabb is Panjabi word for God (probably borrowed from Arabic in turn). Persian usually use the phrase "Khuda-e-YazdaN", which means Eternal God. Urdu borrows it from Persian.

Dear Dost, Urstruly, Eklavya etc.

While you have dealt with God/Spirituality etc. embodied in Hinduism and Islam, you haven't dealt much with the socio-political structures implied by these two religions.

Can devout Hindus and Muslims "choose" (when faced with no constraints on choice) to live under the same socio-political structure?

"Allah is but one Arabic name of what in english is God."

Urstruly, is Allah exactly the same as Khuda?

Re: # 256

"Urstruly, those Hindus texts are speaking of a very different thing.One can't start with those texts and arrive at Allah and the Quran, or vice versa, either by logic and through faith."

And what thing exactly those texts are talking about then? I am not trying to arrive at Allah or Qura'n, I am trying top arrive at One Absolute God, Allah is but one Arabic name of what in english is God.

Re: # 256

"Urstruly, those Hindus texts are speaking of a very different thing.One can't start with those texts and arrive at Allah and the Quran, or vice versa, either by logic and through faith."

And what thing exactly those texts are talking about then? I am not trying to arrive at Allah or Qura'n, I am trying top arrive at One Absolute God, Allah is but one Arabic name of what in english is God.

Urstruly, those Hindus texts are speaking of a very different thing. One can't start with those texts and arrive at Allah and the Quran, or vice versa, either by logic and through faith.

Which is just fine. A variety of thinking exists in this world. Zakir Naik aside, few in these hundreds and hundreds of years have taken the two to be the same, or seen them referring to same things (except for Gandhi-Nehru who for all their greatness did not know religion from coffe). I hope you would agree with the difference. Let's not get caught up with that 'absolute' word.

Re: # 230 Laddu

Being "formless" is just one of the attributes of God. So one may ask question as if God is Absolute, then how can He be so helpless to have form; conversely if God is formless then he cannot be Absolute, since being formless means that God should be constrained by devoid of having form.

A similar argument can be formulated for the dieties that have form.

See the point is that while interacting with humans God must "speak the language" that humans understand. Otherwise how would you explain the taste of a mango who has never seen or tasted a mango. Islam divides the knowledge, therefore, into the realm of known and unknown. God having a form or not falls into the realm of unknown. God stresses not on having form or not but stress on the fact that God is free of human constraints - He never sleeps; He never eats or drinks; He never gets tired; He has no children; He is begotten by none because "He is Absolute". So being Absolute is the umbrella that sheds God from having any human or other attribute that our limited intellect can imagine.

The references that I have quoted from Hindu religious texts in #215 allude only to this attribute, that He is Absolute.


Eklavya # 251.

Thank you. That is quite accurate. But what I am saying is not necessarily an islamic concept of God. This in fact is the common sense concept of One God, which is etched in our genes. Every human being knows it by nature.

If one rationize his own thoughts about polytheism he will find out in no time that every diety other than One True God is a human construct. we worship Ram because we chose to AND we saw our parents and society do that. But Cocept of One Creator comes naturally.

yeah, simplistic, zee! LOL

#251 Posted by Eklavya,

Thanks Kaal. I never lost 'faith' in fairies. They always deliver what they promise!

Yaar this discussion is too hard for me. I have very simplistic views as you know ...

and what about al-lah's daughters ?

..... i appeal to all muslims on chowk to continue worshiping al-lah mian's daughters even though muhammad revised the koran to disown them ..... it was a mistake and we should repent ........ let us restore al-lat, al-uzza and manat to their rightful place in the islamic pantheon ...... as a matter of fact, i would like to make sure that we rebuild their shrines near mecca and make them part of the hajj ......

......... it is a shame that we have been misled for all these centuries and ignored the three divine daughters .......... may al-lah forgive muhammad and his people for this horrible transgression against his beloved daughters .... amen

Zee boss. This afternoon! Have specifically set aside time for that. Meanwhile welcome back from the fairyland.

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If we ignore urstruly's references to the Buddha and to Hinduism, he is presenting the Islamic view quite succinctly.

To see Urstruly's point, Hindus should remember that Islamic "God" - Allah - is not the meaninglessly "loving" Christian God (of the New Testament). Allah is much more 'neutral' from a human pov. To any real unbeliever Allah would appear just as "evil" as "good."

This God - Allah - is not obsessed with 'loving' humans. Rather, it is the duty of all believers - Muslims - to love Allah and Allah's prophet. More than life, more than parents, anything in their own past, more than anything else.

Where there is such uncompromising human love, 'jealousy' and opposition to those who oppose the object of love are nothing short of natural (human) duties in a natural plan.

(We might notice that the most ardent defenders of Allah's Message and good honor of Allah's Prophet are Sufis, even if that defense takes forms that appear irreconcilable with unbelievers' own notions of sufism. Love without the duty to defend (or without the promise of golden ultimate victory) is meaningless. It can exist (as we know from the bhakti movement) but it won't amount to much in natural and material terms.
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'The 'neutral' property of Allah shouldn't be confused with the 'nirgun' concept of the Ultimate Reality that Indic thought refers to. Allah has wishes and characteristics but those wishes and characteristics are not accountable/bound from human point of view.