Dost Mittar January 24, 2008
#154 Posted by Eklavya on February 2, 2008 6:32:39 am
mohar, speaking of this article, I too didn't like DM's clear attempt to prove that Hinduism is/was a better religion than others, or that Hinduism was the only true/first/last religion/way to God.
Such religious bigotry would be unbecoming of any Indian/Indian nationalist.
-------------
vengatramanan
Undoubetedly, the returns are huge. It's not for nothing that despite paying all those costs historically, we still maintain some strengths.
At the end of the day, vengat, one has to agree with you, and with others who assert that one can't define Hinduism (positively) without killing it. Very much as the Indian belief that if you have to limit/define 'God' then you aren't really speaking of 'God' at all....
Such religious bigotry would be unbecoming of any Indian/Indian nationalist.
-------------
vengatramanan
Undoubetedly, the returns are huge. It's not for nothing that despite paying all those costs historically, we still maintain some strengths.
At the end of the day, vengat, one has to agree with you, and with others who assert that one can't define Hinduism (positively) without killing it. Very much as the Indian belief that if you have to limit/define 'God' then you aren't really speaking of 'God' at all....
#153 Posted by Eklavya on February 2, 2008 6:29:10 am
aslam bhai, Hindus don't see themselves as a 'nation.' So there can't be any such thing as Hindu nationalism.
#152 Posted by mohar11 on February 2, 2008 6:21:16 am
Re: # 151
true... nationalism was separate from hinduism from a long time, until '90s... then pendulum swung to the right... it will swing again... that's the nature of politics...
we have seen such swings happening in US too...
true... nationalism was separate from hinduism from a long time, until '90s... then pendulum swung to the right... it will swing again... that's the nature of politics...
we have seen such swings happening in US too...
#151 Posted by aslam644 on February 2, 2008 6:14:57 am
Like most religions Hinduism hobbles ambition and progress. I believe at one time it really degenerated into rituals and stigmas until reformers came along, it is much easier to reform than islam. The big challenge now is the political hindus, separate Hinduism from nationalism.
#150 Posted by chaltahai on February 2, 2008 6:01:00 am
...and ekanth...has anyone read a book published a long time ago..like 10 years ago or soemthing called, "India Treasures"?
#149 Posted by mohar11 on February 2, 2008 5:56:11 am
ana
kashmir is dead, for now atleast... so we are back to hinud-muslim religions... I mean - one is a religion, the other is something else that DostMitter is still trying to figure out... :)
kashmir is dead, for now atleast... so we are back to hinud-muslim religions... I mean - one is a religion, the other is something else that DostMitter is still trying to figure out... :)
#148 Posted by mohar11 on February 2, 2008 5:51:28 am
DM
I don't know what's sanskrit for Mazhab or whatever bedouin word you have come up with... I am sure there are words and concepts in sanskrit and hinduism which has no direct equivalent in other languages and religions...
It doesn't matter... like I said - religion is an universal phenomenon, it's NOT confined to a arabic or latin definition... hinduism serves the same purpose for hindus as Islam does for muslims, christianism for christians, buddhism for buddhists... so on and so forth...
It's all mumbo-jumbo anyway - a bunch of rituals promising a pie from a man living in the sky... and here you are, splitting hairs on "comparative religions"... at best, this is just academic... at worst, it unncessarily incites religious passions - the eternal "my bullsh@t is better than yours" fight that has gone too long already...
get over it...
I don't know what's sanskrit for Mazhab or whatever bedouin word you have come up with... I am sure there are words and concepts in sanskrit and hinduism which has no direct equivalent in other languages and religions...
It doesn't matter... like I said - religion is an universal phenomenon, it's NOT confined to a arabic or latin definition... hinduism serves the same purpose for hindus as Islam does for muslims, christianism for christians, buddhism for buddhists... so on and so forth...
It's all mumbo-jumbo anyway - a bunch of rituals promising a pie from a man living in the sky... and here you are, splitting hairs on "comparative religions"... at best, this is just academic... at worst, it unncessarily incites religious passions - the eternal "my bullsh@t is better than yours" fight that has gone too long already...
get over it...
#147 Posted by vengatramanan on February 2, 2008 5:37:28 am
Re: # 144
"It's a tragedy that we did not lean the distinctions that became necessary later on. What was our greatest strength also imposed upon the largest possible cost."
Eklavya,
Proly, we are not able to cognize or appreciate the
returns we have had on the cost. Or they are all intangibles?
Perhaps the distinctions were too difficult to observe or our elders' didn't have much faith in reductionism.
Its better to let uncertainty prevail.
"It's a tragedy that we did not lean the distinctions that became necessary later on. What was our greatest strength also imposed upon the largest possible cost."
Eklavya,
Proly, we are not able to cognize or appreciate the
returns we have had on the cost. Or they are all intangibles?
Perhaps the distinctions were too difficult to observe or our elders' didn't have much faith in reductionism.
Its better to let uncertainty prevail.
#146 Posted by Eklavya on February 2, 2008 5:25:15 am
ana, nobody is arguing about Indus Valley Civilization (or "chattisgarh civilization" that mahmood mahmood bhai has dug up, or "Punjab Civlization" that some others have discovered in their respective backyards). Those are strictly Pakistani obsessions, and Pakistanis do have a sovereign right to keep discovering civilizations till they find one they can all be comfortable with.
#145 Posted by ana on February 2, 2008 5:03:34 am
Hai, hai, it's bloody bad enough that we argue about Kashmir and Partition and what not, but now we're arguing about the Indus Valley Civilization?! What's next?
#144 Posted by Eklavya on February 2, 2008 5:01:14 am
"Nobody gets bewildered on why you would have to worship two people of different religious affiliations."
Vengatramanan, in India - in and around Sindh, and in and around Punjab, exactly like in and around Andhra, Kerala, and Tamilnadu - we never had the practise of exclusive "religions" until Islam brought that kind of thinking in from the outside. So following one path, two paths, and all at the same time, all made perfect sense. If you look at India's basic ideas, that is the only way it could be.
It's a tragedy that we did not lean the distinctions that became necessary later on. What was our greatest strength also imposed upon the largest possible cost.
Vengatramanan, in India - in and around Sindh, and in and around Punjab, exactly like in and around Andhra, Kerala, and Tamilnadu - we never had the practise of exclusive "religions" until Islam brought that kind of thinking in from the outside. So following one path, two paths, and all at the same time, all made perfect sense. If you look at India's basic ideas, that is the only way it could be.
It's a tragedy that we did not lean the distinctions that became necessary later on. What was our greatest strength also imposed upon the largest possible cost.
#143 Posted by vengatramanan on February 2, 2008 4:26:53 am
If any of the Christians feel left out, then just visit Velankanni's Mother Mary Church. You will find Hindus in majority.
#142 Posted by vengatramanan on February 2, 2008 4:04:13 am
Re: # 141
Disclaimer:
The post should not be used to construe that I subscribe to the idea of humongous pilgrimages. Actually I believe, the very act could have psychological problems as the cause.
In short, the pilgrimage destination is polluted by humans to a level that it beomes extremely dangerous for the place's fauna and flora. The devotees pollute the water bodies a lot :(
Disclaimer:
The post should not be used to construe that I subscribe to the idea of humongous pilgrimages. Actually I believe, the very act could have psychological problems as the cause.
In short, the pilgrimage destination is polluted by humans to a level that it beomes extremely dangerous for the place's fauna and flora. The devotees pollute the water bodies a lot :(
#141 Posted by vengatramanan on February 2, 2008 3:48:38 am
The people of this land, I believe either didn't try to differentiate or weren't aware that they were practicing a religion. Some of the south indian temple festivals require Muslim's to be given the 'first respect'. They would have to kick start the celebration.
For instance, pilgrimage to Iyappan require the devotees to offer their respect to a Muslim, before visiting the protoganist himself.
Nobody gets bewildered on why you would have to worship two people of different religious affiliations.
Hinduism has never said 'quintessentialism' is the only way to live.
For instance, pilgrimage to Iyappan require the devotees to offer their respect to a Muslim, before visiting the protoganist himself.
Nobody gets bewildered on why you would have to worship two people of different religious affiliations.
Hinduism has never said 'quintessentialism' is the only way to live.
#140 Posted by nkg on February 2, 2008 3:31:34 am
Re: # 19
I take the Abrahmic faiths' definition of religion because the concept itself is Abrahmic, in my opinion.
Why must Hindus insist upon theirs being A Religion?
Ans: Foreign rulers has started this and Congress has tried to institutionalise it.
I take the Abrahmic faiths' definition of religion because the concept itself is Abrahmic, in my opinion.
Why must Hindus insist upon theirs being A Religion?
Ans: Foreign rulers has started this and Congress has tried to institutionalise it.
#139 Posted by nkg on February 2, 2008 3:26:18 am
Re: # 3
Laddu, NKG and anti-Islam others; why are you silent NOW?
Ans: I have nothing against any faith ( that is the beauty of Indians. I stay in a place, which follows rituals totally different from our side. With curiosity, I try to learn that and ask people, what is the reason/story behind such rituals).
Islam is very harmful to humanity. You should learn from the problem Islam has created in Afghanisthan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Thailand, Philipines, Spain,UK, France...
Jihad/Crusade is living proof of how dangerous Islam and Roman Catholicism is?
Please read the following link http://www.caip.rutgers.edu/~kanth/jwz/mbm/sv/svindex.html
Laddu, NKG and anti-Islam others; why are you silent NOW?
Ans: I have nothing against any faith ( that is the beauty of Indians. I stay in a place, which follows rituals totally different from our side. With curiosity, I try to learn that and ask people, what is the reason/story behind such rituals).
Islam is very harmful to humanity. You should learn from the problem Islam has created in Afghanisthan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Thailand, Philipines, Spain,UK, France...
Jihad/Crusade is living proof of how dangerous Islam and Roman Catholicism is?
Please read the following link http://www.caip.rutgers.edu/~kanth/jwz/mbm/sv/svindex.html
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