Dost Mittar January 24, 2008
#97 Posted by Ranjit on February 1, 2008 7:47:03 pm
Dost Mittar,
Who are we kidding? The only reason Islam didnt spread all over India is because Punjabi muslims (and Sindhi Muslims) didnt have the missionary zeal to spread the religion eastwards. Typically Islam was spread by each newly converted group taking the message to their neighbors and the chain continuing forward e.g. Arabs to Persians, Persians and Arabs to Turks, Turks to Afghans and East Europeans, Afghans to Punjabis etc. This is understandable because people dont usually care about people who are far removed geographically.
Somehow this daisy chain halted at Punjabis and Sindhis. The latter converted in large numbers but didnt bother to spread it further. In fact, I dont beleive there is even one instance of a Punjabi or Sindhi mullah going to the rest of India to convert people. Whatever conversions happened in rest of North India were done by Turk and Mughals, and they were interested in power rather than conversions. I dont know why Punjabis and Sindhi muslims didnt have the missionary zeal. Maybe they were reluctant converts at first? In any case, it is only after 1947 that some of them have caught the jihadi bug, especially in Punjab. However, for 1000 years, they didnt care which is why Islam never spread in the rest of India.
Who are we kidding? The only reason Islam didnt spread all over India is because Punjabi muslims (and Sindhi Muslims) didnt have the missionary zeal to spread the religion eastwards. Typically Islam was spread by each newly converted group taking the message to their neighbors and the chain continuing forward e.g. Arabs to Persians, Persians and Arabs to Turks, Turks to Afghans and East Europeans, Afghans to Punjabis etc. This is understandable because people dont usually care about people who are far removed geographically.
Somehow this daisy chain halted at Punjabis and Sindhis. The latter converted in large numbers but didnt bother to spread it further. In fact, I dont beleive there is even one instance of a Punjabi or Sindhi mullah going to the rest of India to convert people. Whatever conversions happened in rest of North India were done by Turk and Mughals, and they were interested in power rather than conversions. I dont know why Punjabis and Sindhi muslims didnt have the missionary zeal. Maybe they were reluctant converts at first? In any case, it is only after 1947 that some of them have caught the jihadi bug, especially in Punjab. However, for 1000 years, they didnt care which is why Islam never spread in the rest of India.
#98 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 7:49:41 pm
Maharana#30
Thanks for your kind words and pointing out the difference between Bhagwat Gita and Puran. I am not a scholar of Hinduism and cannot answer your question. Hopefully, someone else can.
Thanks for your kind words and pointing out the difference between Bhagwat Gita and Puran. I am not a scholar of Hinduism and cannot answer your question. Hopefully, someone else can.
#99 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 7:56:13 pm
laddu#31,35:
You are not alone; many Hindus do have the certitude that you have; I was talking here about the belief system. Are there any bounds that a Hindu cannot cross without crossing the boundaries of his or her faith?
As regards scenic hillspots of temples, I was in fact admiring the aesthetics of Hindus and did not mean to mock the religion
You are not alone; many Hindus do have the certitude that you have; I was talking here about the belief system. Are there any bounds that a Hindu cannot cross without crossing the boundaries of his or her faith?
As regards scenic hillspots of temples, I was in fact admiring the aesthetics of Hindus and did not mean to mock the religion
#100 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:00:36 pm
mohar11#33:
If I am creating a strawman, could you please tell us if there is a Hindi/Sanskrit equivalent of Mazhab?
If I am creating a strawman, could you please tell us if there is a Hindi/Sanskrit equivalent of Mazhab?
#101 Posted by Regard on February 1, 2008 8:03:00 pm
#93masanamuthu NO. Earliest known reference of atheistic current goes back to 9th century BC by Vrahaspati. The period of 4th BC till 6th AD saw birth of most of the major currents of philosophies in India.
Some great nastik (kind of atheistic) philosophers such as Kumar Giri left a very strong impact. As you rightly said in your last sentence, such people were always attacked by those who may lose their living. There were many attempts on Kumar Giri’s life. When he walked away after being thrown from a cliff, his detractors attributed it to divine protection and qualities in him. While he himself steadfastly ridiculed such crdulous attempts.
Some great nastik (kind of atheistic) philosophers such as Kumar Giri left a very strong impact. As you rightly said in your last sentence, such people were always attacked by those who may lose their living. There were many attempts on Kumar Giri’s life. When he walked away after being thrown from a cliff, his detractors attributed it to divine protection and qualities in him. While he himself steadfastly ridiculed such crdulous attempts.
#102 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:04:53 pm
eklavya#34:
As I said to laddu, I am trying to differentiate between the certitude of an individual and the certitude that comes from the faith-system. Maybe this is a wrong distinction but that's what I have in mind.
As I said to laddu, I am trying to differentiate between the certitude of an individual and the certitude that comes from the faith-system. Maybe this is a wrong distinction but that's what I have in mind.
#103 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:04:54 pm
eklavya#34:
As I said to laddu, I am trying to differentiate between the certitude of an individual and the certitude that comes from the faith-system. Maybe this is a wrong distinction but that's what I have in mind.
As I said to laddu, I am trying to differentiate between the certitude of an individual and the certitude that comes from the faith-system. Maybe this is a wrong distinction but that's what I have in mind.
#104 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:18:39 pm
hamidm#39:
I googled under 'hinduism for dummies' and got several entries, including this one from amazon.com entitled "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism' by Linda Johnson. Here is the editorial comment from Amazon.com:
"Hinduism is such a vast, complex, and exotic topic that to boil it down to a few hundred pages--and make it fun--must be the work of a true avatar, in this case Linda Johnsen. In The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism, Johnsen covers the history, philosophy, devotions, gods, and traditions of this timeless religion. She takes pains to not only make the material easy to read and understand but to get inside the minds of Hindus, themselves, to make sense of what they believe and why. This sympathetic view is balanced by objective and concrete reporting. For example, she presents discussions of the Aryan Invasion theory, whether Jesus visited India, and a well-documented case of modern-day reincarnation. In addition to introducing each of the different strains of Hinduism and their beliefs, she also gives an overview of the classic Hindu myths. Exotic, yes, but Johnsen succeeds in bringing Hinduism closer to home. --Brian Bruya "
I would avoid heavy books by Hindu writers, such as Radha Krishnan, which are standard university texts. In my opinion, Hindu reformists, starting with Raja Ram Mohan Roy, were awed by the monotheism of Christianity and tried to search for the same in their religion and ignored other streams of thoughts/practices in their belief system.
I googled under 'hinduism for dummies' and got several entries, including this one from amazon.com entitled "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism' by Linda Johnson. Here is the editorial comment from Amazon.com:
"Hinduism is such a vast, complex, and exotic topic that to boil it down to a few hundred pages--and make it fun--must be the work of a true avatar, in this case Linda Johnsen. In The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism, Johnsen covers the history, philosophy, devotions, gods, and traditions of this timeless religion. She takes pains to not only make the material easy to read and understand but to get inside the minds of Hindus, themselves, to make sense of what they believe and why. This sympathetic view is balanced by objective and concrete reporting. For example, she presents discussions of the Aryan Invasion theory, whether Jesus visited India, and a well-documented case of modern-day reincarnation. In addition to introducing each of the different strains of Hinduism and their beliefs, she also gives an overview of the classic Hindu myths. Exotic, yes, but Johnsen succeeds in bringing Hinduism closer to home. --Brian Bruya "
I would avoid heavy books by Hindu writers, such as Radha Krishnan, which are standard university texts. In my opinion, Hindu reformists, starting with Raja Ram Mohan Roy, were awed by the monotheism of Christianity and tried to search for the same in their religion and ignored other streams of thoughts/practices in their belief system.
#105 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:25:08 pm
Naqshbandi#51:
"where does the whole caste system come into it? How is Manu related to Hinduism? These are serious qs."
Thanks for your kind remarks.
I did touch upon the possible sources of caste system in my write-up. Do you have a specific question? As regards Manu, he is supposed to be the author of a dharmashastra, a treatise which describes the laws applicable to a particular time. Manu's smriti is supposed to be for Sat Yuga and not for the current period, which the Hindus call Kal Yuga, which is supposed to have started with the end of the Mahabharata phase.
"where does the whole caste system come into it? How is Manu related to Hinduism? These are serious qs."
Thanks for your kind remarks.
I did touch upon the possible sources of caste system in my write-up. Do you have a specific question? As regards Manu, he is supposed to be the author of a dharmashastra, a treatise which describes the laws applicable to a particular time. Manu's smriti is supposed to be for Sat Yuga and not for the current period, which the Hindus call Kal Yuga, which is supposed to have started with the end of the Mahabharata phase.
#106 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:27:28 pm
Mantolives#54:
Thanks for your appreciation.
Thanks for your appreciation.
#107 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:35:00 pm
masadi#61,62:
"The problem with your misunderstanding is that you are taking things written over a vast period of time and mixing them together to come up with your definition of Hinduism"
You are right but isn't what Hinduism is all about? a mix of philosophies, rituals, societal organization, etc. that developed on the subcontinent?
On your other point, there is no review window after you submit an article, so I could not be certain whether the error was mine or that of the chowk staff; so I considered it was proper for me to apologize for the error.
"The problem with your misunderstanding is that you are taking things written over a vast period of time and mixing them together to come up with your definition of Hinduism"
You are right but isn't what Hinduism is all about? a mix of philosophies, rituals, societal organization, etc. that developed on the subcontinent?
On your other point, there is no review window after you submit an article, so I could not be certain whether the error was mine or that of the chowk staff; so I considered it was proper for me to apologize for the error.
#108 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:35:02 pm
masadi#61,62:
"The problem with your misunderstanding is that you are taking things written over a vast period of time and mixing them together to come up with your definition of Hinduism"
You are right but isn't what Hinduism is all about? a mix of philosophies, rituals, societal organization, etc. that developed on the subcontinent?
On your other point, there is no review window after you submit an article, so I could not be certain whether the error was mine or that of the chowk staff; so I considered it was proper for me to apologize for the error.
"The problem with your misunderstanding is that you are taking things written over a vast period of time and mixing them together to come up with your definition of Hinduism"
You are right but isn't what Hinduism is all about? a mix of philosophies, rituals, societal organization, etc. that developed on the subcontinent?
On your other point, there is no review window after you submit an article, so I could not be certain whether the error was mine or that of the chowk staff; so I considered it was proper for me to apologize for the error.
#109 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:37:10 pm
Regard#s various:
You seem to know a lot more about the subject than I do. Please keep posting. I am all ears!
You seem to know a lot more about the subject than I do. Please keep posting. I am all ears!
#110 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:39:42 pm
Shoresaheb#67:
Thank you for your comments. You are what the RSS people would call a Mohammedan Hindu. It seems from chowk that there are more of them than one would have thought.
Thank you for your comments. You are what the RSS people would call a Mohammedan Hindu. It seems from chowk that there are more of them than one would have thought.
#111 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:42:28 pm
kamath#72:
This is why I call it "my definition" and not "the definition". But I will take your advice and see a shrink.:)
This is why I call it "my definition" and not "the definition". But I will take your advice and see a shrink.:)
#112 Posted by dost_mittar on February 1, 2008 8:49:02 pm
hamidm:
"i think i will look into kabala judaism"
I am sorry to break it to you but the new high priestess of kabala judaism, Madonna, was searching for her salvation in the Rajasthan temples of Ek Nath and other pagan mandirs. So, how about Church of Scientology?
"i think i will look into kabala judaism"
I am sorry to break it to you but the new high priestess of kabala judaism, Madonna, was searching for her salvation in the Rajasthan temples of Ek Nath and other pagan mandirs. So, how about Church of Scientology?
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