Pakistan's Universities - Problems and Solutions

#10 Posted by ahmedmadani on January 27, 2008 8:20:05 pm


Arjun you admit Indians are not after knowledge but just dirty money ?


it's not an either or thing..you need knowledge to make money..I'm just disputing the knowledge gained from a masters course...

Most Indian grads, IIT or otherwise, breeze through the masters courses...frankly, unless you do a phd, you can't really say you gained knowledge...

so while the pursuit of money and a career might be anathema to those of the jihadi persuasion i.e. pakis, it's a perfectly legitimate goal...money through knowledge..

#13 Posted by tahir on January 27, 2008 9:19:12 pm


There are fundamentalist-terrorists in many countries; let's try and control our own sides first.


Really? how many terrorists from india are in gitmo? how many from the land of the pure?

hardly a week goes by without a terrorist from you-know-where being busted somewhere around the globe..

it's not a coincidence...while india was busy building it's IITs, you all were busy building your jihadi training factories to produce jihadis for your strategic wet dreams



Who sponsored them; certainly not Islam?


You sponsored them..your army and your government...it's your creation...


spare us the platitudes..

nkg,

You are far removed from realities. People go to gulf for the sake of money because it will help in their
1. Children's education
2. Marriage
3. Medicare etc...

Re: # 17
Money out of R&D
Ans:
This is personal feeling. When you do something, which changes life of millions of people and offers you job satisfaction, it is definitely not dirty money.
People go to gulf for the sake of money only, not for some good quality work or learning.
I had interacted with a person (he is an IITian), who had moved from technical space to management space. When he was telling that he was part of ARPANET project (INTERNET project), I was feeling the sentiment (I was telling about Ticket Reservation Project of Indian Railway).

The European varsities are in dire need of funds and hence actively soliciting foreign students. This could be the same with the american universities. Rather than spending to build institutions from scratch, why should not the Pakistanis request the western varsities provide education for their students. They could spend the money allotted for higher education towards their fees till a critical mass is reached.

Once you attain the critical mass of intellectual capital, you can always build your own institutions.

The problem with us is, we have not understood the importance of students making mistakes, getting concepts wrong etc...We need everything touchwood and never let the student err and research on what went wrong. His scoring in the exams are the only indicators that would decide the student's fate and this slowly killed the adventurism in the students and led to this decay.

Re: # 15

There is nothing like dirty money till you make it within the precincts of law. Afterall, the guy who has had a 'decent graduation' too works for the money, right?

Money out of R&D or a 9-5 job is no different.

Dunno, if quality of life motivates people in wild life studies, photography etc...

Re: # 13
Please don't parot what has become fashionable all over the globe. These same madrassah simpletons were initially Mujahids, then Taliban, and now condemned to being terrorists. Who sponsored them; certainly not Islam?

Ans: Again denying the fact. If Islam is not the reason, then why USA will use Islam to foster terrorism using Islamic institutions (Mosques and Madrassehs)?

Re: # 14
If you are interested in money alone, then do a somewhat decent graduation and go to gulf countries...Quality of life may not be good, but amount of money is comparable to USA...
Mr. Ahmed Madani, this is what we consider dirty money....
Working in R & D section of Tech Giants like GE, Boeing, NASA, Microsoft, Apple, Intel, HP, IBM, Google is not dirty money....

While arjun is right to some extent, quite a few IITians come here with genuine interest in higher education and research. They want to do intellectually challenging work and of course, make money as well. Some people are just interested in getting a M.S. and jumping into the job market, but that is an individual preference....different strokes for different folks...

Re: # 3
Mr. Arjun,

I agree 'institutions take time to build' but the rest of your comments don't belong here.

There are fundamentalist-terrorists in many countries; let's try and control our own sides first.

Please don't parot what has become fashionable all over the globe. These same madrassah simpletons were initially Mujahids, then Taliban, and now condemned to being terrorists. Who sponsored them; certainly not Islam?

Shanti now.

Re: # 10
Dirty money comes from different way ...
Do you know the competetion you need to face to get admitted in Graduate program in IITs? I don't think, it is money alone, that motivate educated people. These US companies provide excellent working environment and opportunity to learn and execute your innovation...
Most of it is job satisfaction...

Re: # 6 Aitullah Khakali = he was very radical and called hanging judge of Iran. Many times executions were carried out and then trial ( A titled book describing excess of horrible "revolutons" Zeemax should read Darkness at noon by A.Kostrler, authoer of Yogi and commissor)
There was another mad aytullah rigo or something like that he even hanged and killed "shah's" horse.
Zeemax is just getting too excited to use his "G" machine.

Re: # 8 Arjun you admit Indians are not after knowledge but just dirty money ? and like to be servant to white cream colored people ?
Please give straight answers. No crude art of cut paste appreciated. Just yes or no
Thanks

Re: # 8
Are you sure? At least upto let 1990s, the Technical Education situation was like that...
For post graduate study and research 1st choice would be MIT or other US technical schools. After completion, people used to join Motorola, Intel, Compaq, IBM , GM ,Microsoft,Oracle,NASA...
If people fail to get admission in US universities (low GRE score or financial assistance problem), people used to study M.Tech in IITs. Most of the IIT M.Techs are from local Engineering Colleges/R E Cs. The IIT grads study M.Tech in IITs are just preparing for their UPSC exams...
As per quality of research and advanced study is concern, IITs were far behind their US counterparts.
IISc ( Banglore) is the only institution in India, which focusses primarily on Research and is almost at par with EU/USA standard.
Whatever Vinod Khosla, Arun Sarin, Vymoesh Joshi etc... completed their Masters in US universities.

#7 Posted by nkg on January 27, 2008 7:02:21 pm


They are excellent graduate schools. But, as per as post graduate study is concerned, most of the people depend upon US universities.


IIT grads don't come to US universities for the education...they come for the job openings in the US after their graduations...most IIT grads sail through post-grad.

Eductaion reform should start at primary/secondary level and then it should reach to higher level. It is better to bring back the expertriate fellow citizens than foreign experts to teach in local universities.
Education reforms takes time. China has started that long back. So, if you are trying to emulate China, then please keep patience. Only if, the nation is thoroughly motivated, then only the miracle can happen (turn around within 10 years). Vietnam is nice example of that.But ground situation in Pakistan is something different.
Regarding Techinical/Management institute, without good Industry you can not build good institues. They are complement to each other.
Regarding IITs ( in India). They are excellent graduate schools. But, as per as post graduate study is concerned, most of the people depend upon US universities. The cream of India carries out higher studies in USA/UK/Australia etc... Bring back those who have completed higher study in USA. USA is nice friend of Pakistan. They will definitely help ( Unlike India in past. I can remember, for Microwave Lab in our college, the professor used to get scared to hand over the equipment to the students (in 1990s). The equipment was very costly. It was imported from USA. Furthermore, this equipment can be used for defence purposes, so, it was very difficult to get permission from US).
Here in my native state ( West Bengal), I see regular revision of syllabus of seciondary and higher secondary curriculum ( Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, English etc...).