Pakistan's Universities - Problems and Solutions

Re: # 72
"You have not given an argument against the claim made about the origins of algebra. Making fun about the argument is not answering the argument. Read what historians have to say about this question. The statement made is inline with serious scholarly work done by historians .. but our modern colonized mind can only respond with ridicule".

While problems of the Muslim inheritance law may be solved using algebra, this does not mean that it was the primary motivator for the development of algebra. Indeed there are also problems in the Rhind Papyrus that can be solved using algebra.

Can you provide some referenes to support your criticism of Hamidm's point?

Uncle, cultural imperialism is a reality, if you are not acknowledging it, then I dont know who has fact confused with fiction.

Or you probably mean by that statement that we never had those things ... again I would say get in touch with a historian .. I can suggest a few names:
Barnaby Rogerson
Karen Armstrong
Amitav Ghosh
Gai Eaton

or do you belive in the imagined construct of the linear direction of progress??

And also if I suffer from delusion, I must see a psychiatrist not a neurologist .. it is possibly a problem with my perception and not the physical wiring.

Re: # 70
"Our culture is dying, a culture which was full of beauty,wisdom, mercy, magnanimity, love, and patience".

Son, you need to immediately see a good neurologist. You seem to be dangerously delusionsal.

Re: # 82
Thanks Eklavya :)I meant disengaging with him .. not everyone else :)
Hey urstruly man that video looks doctored .. the guy in the middle doesnt move for a good ten seconds ... hmmm ..

my blog: dilsenomad.wordpress.com

dilsenomad

Hope you won't 'disengage.' The rule on chowk is to denounce first, listen later. Just get used to it, and you can have some good conversations over time.

Welcome.

Thanks for the headsup urstruly :) I am new and had no idea who this guy was .. you will see me disengage completely. I have no patience for people who are not willing to budge.

tahmed32: Just a comment on what you said, bro not everything can be changed because we think it suits the modern situation. The makasid of shariah law are at times not too obvious to experts let alone laymen. So it is best to trust in Allah and err in caution.
Secondly, in the case you mention it will be illogical to do what you suggest, even today not just in PK but in the modern west too, men are responsible for providing for their families .. men are responsible for taking care of their old parents, thus it is only fair to give them more. IN these times of obsession with political correctness vis a vis western humanistic values if we do as you propose we will be unjust.

Re: # 77

I think you are new on chowk. But you will also figure out that it is better to hit your head against a fast moving truch than arguing with hamidm. In case you are wondering who he is; he is the person sitting at the very right in white dress in this panel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vtx8JOF9AI

how do you argue with him?

you need algebra to figure out that every son gets twice what every daughter gets? and "muslim laws of inheritance" were advanced for their age, and pointed in the direction of greater rights for women.

if one follows the spirit of the Quran, the logic would be to bring laws up to date and give equal amounts to sons and daughters.

But "muslims" in Pakistan follow the Quranic injunctions the way Musharraf follows the Constitution - violate its basic spirit, take selective parts out of it when convenient, add where material if even selected parts are missing, and give the pretense of following the rules by giving detailed references.

Musharraf abuses the Constitution the way Maulvis abuse Islam.

Re: # 77
Another thing .. yes, the west did create the noble television, which is now the strongest narcotic; yes the west did invent the internet and now the most successful business on the net are pornsites .. they certainly have liberated women; yes the west did surely, make scientific progress, ask peopple from Hiroshima how they have benefitted.

Modern man has been able to control the resources of the planet but has not matured spiritually and in his arrogance fails to see this problem ..

Re: # 73
:)
Again I would say your understanding is based on very reductionist understandings, you should be aware of the fact that the majority of the Muslims condemn suicide bombings. The bombings are a result of a break from our traditional Islamic understandings .. and giving into the pseudo modernism many individuals espouse to .. yes in some human endeavours like you mention Muslims are not worthy of mention but the most important human endeavour is being human, my friend. And many in the glorious west are lagging far behind in this. People to this day appreciate the humanity of Muslims, for a change read and see what others have to say about their experiences in the Muslim world .. dont make an idol out of your own thoughts .. like the true modern person, be self critical and engender humility so you learn. Like socrates said: All i know is I know nothing.

If you love the west be like those in the West who are enlightened. Read history bro, many of the Muslim lands have been colonized by the west and they are still recovering.

Give us time and once again we will reign supreme because of our moral integrity and tolerance.

Re: # 74 GT

The following website explains the Muslim Law of Inheritence in quite a detail. When you go down the page to the mathematical computation part of it, you will understand why and how Algebra had to be invented.
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=article& aid=14

Re: # 74

GT,

... so you blame the poor jews for our silly inheritance laws ?........ how muslim !

#69 Posted by Urstruly:

Urstruly, very very interesting. And Hamid, at least shut up here for you may end looking like a fool here. I know about extremely complicated computations regarding Jewish inheritence laws as put forth in the Talmud. These solutions can be seen as the "nucleolous" of a game. Applications of such solution concepts are now widely prevalent in computation and genetics. So Urstruly may have a point here. I would like to know about references to debates on such laws in Islam. Urstruly ... I will be very grateful (English translations if possible please otherwise Arabic etc. would do).

Re: # 72

dilsenomad,

.... who invented what a thousand years ago is totally irrelevant ..... why are muslims so eager to prove they invented this or that when today most of them are running around butt-naked while chewing on a stick? .... the fact of the matter is that in the last six seven huhdred years muslims have been beaten at every field of human endevour - arts, science, sports and basket weaving ........ like the silly african americans who are anxious to prove that the ancient egyptians were negroes, or get all excited over their ancestor who invented the tooth pick, mohammedans get all worked up over bedouins and persians who could read and write a thousand years ago ....... get over it !

.....what matters is what you are doing now - other than perfecting the art of suicide bombing and washing smelly feet in public restrooms ...........

This is what our discourse looks like .. ridicule .. this is the level of discussion. You have not given an argument against the claim made about the origins of algebra. Making fun about the argument is not answering the argument. Read what historians have to say about this question. The statement made is inline with serious scholarly work done by historians .. but our modern colonized mind can only respond with ridicule.

Anyways, what Dr Hoodboy said has elements of truth to it, what he suggests are good short term strategies .. but I only wanted to point out the a reductionist view of the problem will not get is anywhere ... we need to be critical of the western science as much as our own traiditional understandings .. it would be disingenuous to apply critical rigour to one and not the other ..

urstruly,

"Algebra came into being as a necessity to solve the mathematical problems faced by the people of that time while deciding on the Muslim Inheritence Law"

......... this is just precious ! ........ if it hadn't been for islam, mankind wouldn't have come up with algebra ..... maybe that is why muslims didn't invent toilet paper - we still make do with stones .....