Pakistan's Universities - Problems and Solutions

My dear Indian Crack Team,

Please read about dude in question on your own website.
http://www.indopedia.org/Al-Khwarizmi.html

haideri

Also search for

Alhazen
Geber
Ibn Sina
Al-Biruni
Ibn Rushd
Al-Battani
Al-Farghani

on either Wikipedia or Indopedia

haideri

Baysharmo,

Kissay Baysharam Noo Kissay Banday Aakhiya....Teri Bund Tay Boota Ugyaa....Baysharam Aakhiya Chalo Changa Aay, Chanvaan Bavaan Gaa

Re: # 33

He also made major contributions to the fields of algebra, trigonometry, astronomy/astrology, geography and cartography. His systematic and logical approach to solving linear and quadratic equations gave shape to the discipline of algebra, a word that is derived from the name of his 830 book on the subject, Hisab al-jabr wa al-muqabala (حساب الجبر و المقابلة).

Ans: Quadratic and other similar equations originated in India. Sridharacharya is father of quadratic equation.So, the information here is not correct.

Pervez,

I wish you all the best for your tireless efforts to improve Pakistan. But the system is rotten at the core.

Mushy dismisses a few judges, appoints new ones who over turn all of the earlier judgements. Is there something called precedence rules, jurisprudence in Pak legal system.

200 soldiers led by a colonel surrenders to a few jihadis. The military negotiates and gets their release. Is there any notion of valor in the pak army.

Wheat production is exaggerated, wheat is exported and now there is shortage. T%hen there is the latest, industrial production is exagerated. No one can believe any numbers.

Last week professor and head of department of Punjab uni is caught for plagiarism.

Bhutto is shot dead and the president says she killed herself by banging on a car part.

Pervez, in such a society is it possible to have any scientific enquiry.

Wish you the best.

IN an interview with the Wall Street Journal, President Pervez Musharraf said: “Please differentiate Pakistan from banana republics” where a lowly colonel can take over the state. “These things don’t happen in Pakistan” (Jan 25).
////////////////

Pakistan has teh same approach regarding research, it is not the lowly student who plagiarises, it is teh professors who are doing it to get more money. In pakistan there are no banana universities, they are only in banana republics.

Re: # 37 This problem of management.
In univ. there is too much pressure on professor here either publish or perish. Management should reward research but smae time reward for good teaching, interest in students.Overemphesis on research and publication in foren leads to such things in desperation as promotions or visiting foren to present paper etc. Management needs to think as they should produce good people not hope for einstein etc or like jews they are more talanted in brain dept than all people of des.

#33 Posted by haideri on January 28, 2008 9:13:47 pm

goatbrain: we've been through this before...like I told masadi, the muslims from a long long time ago were interested in learning stuff and spreading knowledge...like the place value system they learn from india...that's a very good thing

In fact, Al-Khwarizmi's book was called "On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals"

the muslims of today only share knowledge of suicide vest and car bomb making techniques.


now get a clue...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hindu-Arabic_numeral_syst em

An early decimal system was clearly in use by the inhabitants of the Indus valley civilization by 3000 BC. Excavations at both Harappa and Mohenjo Daro reveal decimal weights belonging to "two series both being decimal in nature with each decimal number multiplied and divided by two, giving for the main series ratios of 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, and 500."[3] Also, marked rulers at Lodhar reveal gradations of 1.32 inches (3.35 centimetres), ten of which are 13.2 inches, possibly something akin to a "foot" (similar measures exist in other parts of Asia and beyond). Markings on these and other texts reveal a number system with symbols for the numbers one through nine, and separate symbols for 10, 20, 100; thus the decimal system is highly developed though place-value is not used.

Linguistic comparison among Indo-European languages (ca. 3000 BC), shows a decimal enumeration system [4]. In early Vedic texts, composed between 1500 BC and 800 BC, we find Sanskrit number words not only for counting numbers in very large ranges, ranging up to 1019, with some puranas referring to numbers as large as 1062[5].

Historians trace modern numerals in most languages to the Brahmi numerals, which were in use around the middle of the third century BC.[6] The place value system, however, evolved later. The Brahmi numerals have been found in inscriptions in caves and on coins in regions near Pune, Mumbai, and Uttar Pradesh. These numerals (with slight variations) were in use over quite a long time span up to the 4th century AD[6].

There is indirect evidence that the Indians developed a positional number system as early as the first century CE[6]. The Bakhshali manuscript (c. 3d c. BCE) uses a place value system with a dot to denote the zero, which is called shunya-sthAna, "empty-place", and the same symbol is also used in algebraic expressions for the unknown (as in the canonical x in modern algebra). However, the date of the Bakhshali manuscript is hard to establish, and has been the subject of considerable debate. The oldest dated Indian document showing use of the modern place value form is a legal document dated 346 in the Chhedi calendar, which translates to 594 CE[6]. While some historians have claimed that the date on this document was a later forgery, it is not clear what might have motivated it, and it is generally accepted that enumeration using the place-value system was in common use in India by the end of the 6th century. [7]. Indian books dated to this period are able to denote numbers in the hundred thousands using a place value system. [8] Many other inscriptions have been found which are dated and make use of the place-value system for either the date or some other numbers within the text [6], although some historians claim these to also be forgeries.

Re: # 40

Nobody is denying the importance of zero and contribution of Hindus. The problem is you are suffering from psychological blindness. And here you are going overboard
"An early decimal system was clearly in use by the inhabitants of the Indus valley civilization by 3000 BC"

Did you get a chance to search for?

Alhazen
Geber
Ibn Sina
Al-Biruni
Ibn Rushd
Al-Battani
Al-Farghani

haideri

Re #41 Haideri, what have any of these Arabs have to do with Pakistanis or Indians? Shouldn’t you be showing pride in your own heritage for inventing zero? One thing is for sure that before Al Gore invented the internet, none of these Arabs were known of any Pakistani. Now go and google Pakistani DNA, and search for all your ancestors from India.

Professor’s essay is way too ambitious. What Pakistan needs is not number of publication or higher educational institutes, but a solid elementary and secondary education for all. It’s hard to produce world-class scientists from a crumbling and sorryass elementary school system of Pakistan. A country with less than 30% literacy rate shouldn’t be worried about number of Publications, but more basic needs. In addition, Islamiat has got to go, in the dumpster.

Re: # 42

Kulharee,
I am a Kizilbash and a Persian. Many of the guys mentioned in my reply are Persians. And I agree with rest of your Post.

haideri

Getting people to do research is somewhat difficult if there is a lack of interest. For, 70% of "good research" has to do with the formulation of a good question. Without interest, comming up with a question is difficult. However, it is relatively easy to teach them how to solve (simple variants) of well known problems.

I do not know about Pakistan, but in India today there is a tremendous demand (also generated from other parts of the world) for problem solving, from management to engineering to coding. As a result supply is appropriately channeled. Of course there is that 0.5% of geniuses (not only in India, but accross the world) who will do what they want to do and at times it happens to be research in sciences otherwise you see them in literature, music etc etc.

In India there is this notion (amongst politicians and pundits) that we have to encourage basic research, we have to beat China etc. At times it makes me laugh. My colleagues in the Indian Institute of Science do their best to discourage PhD applicants to get into research. Here is how it goes: "You are a very smart guy, why do you want to work on complex dynamics"; "In two years time you will see your friends earn 50 times what you can ever hope to earn"; If you leave the program half-way you will be no-where" etc. Of course, this is a screening device. But it also lays bare the fact that the life of a researcher in India is difficult. That is because there is no demand for them. After all, even Hoodbhoy is in demand basically for his political commentary.

Re #44 - That’s so spot on GT Sahib. My Professor, who wrote on Indo-Pak industrial base, concluded that Pak and India can do without theoretical scientists, what they need is more resourceful ones. What good is a Nobel Prize without access to clean drinking water.

#44 continued....

Apart from finances, research can be a very frustrating experience. Minds with great potential often suffer when their research "fail", i.e. they are not able to come up with the proper theory or a small snag in their experiments lead to their result being discarded or they are beaten in the "race" etc. Things are getting very very difficult at the frontiers of science. There are many more failures now that even 15 years ago. Add to it the greater emphasis put on experimental evidence and hence more resources, it is but natural for basic research to die out in third-world countries. Of course, dictatorial regimes like those in China can put forth these huge funds without an iota of consideration for the best use of these funds. But I do not see the market allocate scarce resources for such use in countries like India. Exceptions, of course, exist (say in the field of bio-technology where the funds are market generated ... the IBM lab in IIT Delhi is more "applied" than "basic").

#45 Posted by Kulharee:

I agree fully. You cannot just look at "education" in isolation. Most state universities in the US were set up to boost agriculture! No one seems to be paying attention to agricultural universities in India, though they exist in each and every state (I must say that rural development is gradually becomming hotter for students in IIMs ... of all places). But the basic point is that we Indians (i.e. those who can eat and wear yellow shoes and therefore "count" in society)are essentially interested in Bollywood, Ambanis and Tatas and cricket. As long as glitz is provided by these sectors we are happy and content. Baki sab jaye tel lene ....

Cont.... "Science in India"

This is from todays Hindu:

"Bangalore: “Interest in science, as we see it, is going down, with most people going for engineering and technology-related fields. They fail to realise that basic science is the mother of all such technology,” said K.N. Shankara, Director, ISRO Satellite Centre, Bangalore, speaking at a workshop on “Indian Odyssey in Space.”"

Mother of all technology! Well, so what? Does it allow me to raise a family who I can take for a vacation once a year? These guys like Shankara should be put behind bars. I remember Pres. Kalam once ask why should salaries be raised for teachers ... they should simply be in the profession because it is "noble". One should really ask these technocrats, who pass off as "scientists" in India, to STFU or become management gurus in the US like C.K. Prahalad .... bloody idiots.