Pakistan's Universities - Problems and Solutions

Thanks for the headsup urstruly :) I am new and had no idea who this guy was .. you will see me disengage completely. I have no patience for people who are not willing to budge.

tahmed32: Just a comment on what you said, bro not everything can be changed because we think it suits the modern situation. The makasid of shariah law are at times not too obvious to experts let alone laymen. So it is best to trust in Allah and err in caution.
Secondly, in the case you mention it will be illogical to do what you suggest, even today not just in PK but in the modern west too, men are responsible for providing for their families .. men are responsible for taking care of their old parents, thus it is only fair to give them more. IN these times of obsession with political correctness vis a vis western humanistic values if we do as you propose we will be unjust.

dilsenomad

Hope you won't 'disengage.' The rule on chowk is to denounce first, listen later. Just get used to it, and you can have some good conversations over time.

Welcome.

Re: # 82
Thanks Eklavya :)I meant disengaging with him .. not everyone else :)
Hey urstruly man that video looks doctored .. the guy in the middle doesnt move for a good ten seconds ... hmmm ..

my blog: dilsenomad.wordpress.com

Re: # 70
"Our culture is dying, a culture which was full of beauty,wisdom, mercy, magnanimity, love, and patience".

Son, you need to immediately see a good neurologist. You seem to be dangerously delusionsal.

Uncle, cultural imperialism is a reality, if you are not acknowledging it, then I dont know who has fact confused with fiction.

Or you probably mean by that statement that we never had those things ... again I would say get in touch with a historian .. I can suggest a few names:
Barnaby Rogerson
Karen Armstrong
Amitav Ghosh
Gai Eaton

or do you belive in the imagined construct of the linear direction of progress??

And also if I suffer from delusion, I must see a psychiatrist not a neurologist .. it is possibly a problem with my perception and not the physical wiring.

Re: # 72
"You have not given an argument against the claim made about the origins of algebra. Making fun about the argument is not answering the argument. Read what historians have to say about this question. The statement made is inline with serious scholarly work done by historians .. but our modern colonized mind can only respond with ridicule".

While problems of the Muslim inheritance law may be solved using algebra, this does not mean that it was the primary motivator for the development of algebra. Indeed there are also problems in the Rhind Papyrus that can be solved using algebra.

Can you provide some referenes to support your criticism of Hamidm's point?

Re: # 85

Cultural imperialism is indeed a reality. That was not my point.

God(SWT) Law does not Allow cultures that are full of beauty, mercy, kindness, and what not to be easily destroyed. People who have those attributes are also blessed with courage and bravery, something I have been search for with a microscope since I was old enough to think.

Before a people are physicaly defeated, they have morally defeated themselves long time ago. And always entirely of their own efforts, without any help from outsiders.

Unwillingness to search history for reasons of moral decay of peoples/civilization is a symptom of mental laziness where it comes much easier to blame others for one's own faults. It must be caused by deliberate, or induced, amnesia/dementia, which seems to me to a structural problem better addressed by a neurologist.

... Or, perhaps, uncle learnt his principles from a different book (but I only had access to an Arabic Qur'an with translations). Perhaps you can tell me where you learnt yours?

Re: # 83

The video is not doctored. Just exchange a few posts with hamidm and you find yourself scratching your head.

Re: # 83

The video is not doctored. Just exchange a few posts with hamidm and you find yourself scratching your head.

Dearest Uncle,
In me you will find somebody who thinks on the same lines .. somebody for whom the Quran is the first source. Where I differ with you is only that I tend to focus on some of the problems we are facing .. specially our youth who have lost a sense of direction and purpose.I am at the same time full of hope, but am cognizant of the effort that is required to make a stand against the cultural imperialism.

From my negative comments you took the wrong idea and your comments were out of taste. In any case I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

And Allah knows best.

dilsenomad #81: greetings my friend to chowk.
on inheritance laws. The Quranic statement of "2 parts to boys and 1 to girls) is not a principle of itself. Rather, it is the application of a broader principle of justice and protection of the weak that is emphasized in the Quran.

Under the conditions you mention (i.e. boys responsible for parents in old age), you say boys should get twice what girls get. Even under these assumptions, to me it is a weak argument - the two to one ratio is arbitrary and the assumption is very weak indeed (as discussed below).

Let us apply your rule in practice: As a moments reflection on examples you know of will no doubt tell you, he reality is that it is often the daughter who takes care of the parents in old age rather than the son. The 2-1 rule works against in the opposite direction to the one you mention!!


So, does one stick to the application of a principle even if common sense tells us that it in facts works to the detriment of the broader principle? Or does one modify the application to suit reality? Common sense would tell us that in this case, the parent may wish to reward the daughter for taking care of them in their old age by leaving behind their home to one child alone. Or perhaps the parents may wish to reward a poor servant who has served them in their old age, while their own children ignored them? (I am sure you will find such cases in Pakistan - I know a few such unfortunate cases myself).

So, using your example, what is the solution?

In the US and other countries with strong legal frameworks, "Wills" are an obvious and effective means for older people to reward those who were kind to them, rather than being forced to give to other individuals who may be their sons but didnt care for them. But..Pakistan has a very weak legal framework (despite our noble lawyers and Chief Justice now languishing in house arrest as they refuse to bow to the demands of the rogue general musharraf). Even BB's "Will" was not made public, and thus could well have been a concocted document!!

So - we have to use our heads and try to come up with a proper solution. I wont solve the problem - but will end this post by merely pointing to HOW it should be solved: i.e. by a democratically elected national assembly that is bound not by narrow and selective interprettions of the Quran (sharia), but by the broad principles of justice and protection of the weak.

welcome dilsenomad..pls visit unplugged section too.

#76 Posted by Urstruly

Urstruly,

Thanks a ton for the reference. I shall read it soon.

Tahmed sahib:

" the logic would be to bring laws up to date and give equal amounts to sons and daughters."

Not necessarily!!!! Maybe I should write something about these laws when I have time.

Re #91: Similar reasoning would suggest that Quranic restrictions on pork and wine too are circumstantial and should be done away with. Of course, hygiene codes would ensure cleanliness in pork consumption and legal codes would serve to quell alcohol abuse.

Your view would come across as more genuine if you agree that enjoying a pork chop with a glass of wine is not against Quranic guidance.

While Quran readily grants flexibility in application of its principles, dismissing these principles altogether … in the name of Islam … remains a far-fetched notion.

GT: Look forward to your take on this. However, in examining the issue, please keep in mind what I wrote at the end in bold: " I wont solve the problem - but will end this post by merely pointing to HOW it should be solved: i.e. by a democratically elected national assembly that is bound not by narrow and selective interpretions of the Quran (sharia), but by the broad principles of justice and protection of the weak. "

Thus - in Pakistan, mullahs have been pushing for "shariah" laws for decades. And where they have succeeded (hadood, blasphemy), they have been passed not after free and open debate in a proper parliament (as such important matters should be), but by the stroke of a pen by the scoundrel Zia. And the results are there for too see: the above-mentioned Quranic principles of justice and protection of the weak have been assaulted in the name of Islam!!

That is why it is so important to keep in mind what I wrote above - about the PROCESS (the "how" noted above) is important.