Bullhe Shah and His Veil of “Meem”

Re: # 60

akcheema mian,

"I feel that some serious attempts at liberating a few minds may go a long way in the future of the progression of rational thought in the "muslim" world. " ......

.... i think it is a brilliant idea - there are quite a few 'minds' on this forum that need to be liberated .... gill sahib and i have been trying to do it for many many years, but these people just won't listen to reason ..... i have even written a line by line tafseer of the koran to show them the folly of their ways, but these people have been obdurate and pigheaded ..... verily, they are doomed

.... now it up to you to liberate these pitiful creatures ... they include: urstruly, zeemax, naqshbandi and tahmed ...actually tahmed considers himself to be some sort of a reformer so i would start with him first ....... but you have to be careful - these people are very tricky and it is quite possible that they might convert and pervert you ..... these insidious folks have managed to convert perfectly nice horrible hindoos like eklavya with threats of hellfire and brimstone, and promises of virgins and pretty boys ........... beware

If hamidm2 will excuse me, one last comment for akcheema ji for now :)

You are at complete liberty to criticize anything human or any human practise at any time at any place. In fact, you have a duty to oppose human injustice where you see it (there comes the public element of faith).

You just have to base your criticism on divine authority, and make sure to criticize the human element, not the divine element.

That's the easiest thing to do in every case.

Essentially, the whole thing has to do with maintaining the faith anchor completely safe.

The very fact that a book would need tafsir after tafsir to attempt to explain its "hidden" meanings (and them being different from one another in many ways - my very first post to this site) speaks volumes about its inadequacies. The mind of a "believer" is like pupil of the eye; the more light you shine upon it, the more it constricts!

hamidm mian and other islamophobes --witty like hamidm or just ignorant and hateful like laddu--

this article could have generated lots of discussion--intelligent discussion!--but i am reminded of the
saying of that other great Messenger of Allah, the Son of Mary, upon them both be peace, who said: "O' my disciples do not cast pearl before swine..."

I feel that is appropriate here methinks.
ps. hamidm i am saddened to be lumped in with rabid wahabis like zeemax, urstruly and necharis like tahmed...

http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/B/BullehShah/index.htm

http://strayreflections.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/hz-bulle-shah-ra/

Regarding the need for religion:

Life is strange! on the one hand we need faith of some kind.. it has beneficial outcomes (proven by science in terms of the calming effect on humans).... but faith also creates "inertia" a al akcheema.... and creates dogma ...and stops critical thinking etc....... so "how much" faith is good????? is that of the sufi kind? certainly not the Wahabi literalist one which might focus on Quranic injunctions of "beating up of wives" if they err, killing of unbelievers etc...

is it true that the verses which came after the attainment of power by the prophet are harsher and more violent as compared to the time when muslims were persecuted?

Regarding the need for religion:

Life is strange! on the one hand we need faith of some kind.. it has beneficial outcomes (proven by science in terms of the calming effect on humans).... but faith also creates "inertia" a al akcheema.... and creates dogma ...and stops critical thinking etc....... so "how much" faith is good????? is that of the sufi kind? certainly not the Wahabi literalist one which might focus on Quranic injunctions of "beating up of wives" if they err, killing of unbelievers etc...

is it true that the verses which came after the attainment of power by the prophet are harsher and more violent as compared to the time when muslims were persecuted?

Re: # 82

eklavya,

.......please explain why we can't crtiticize the 'divine'? what puts it above everything else ?.... if we can abuse sheikh rashid, president bush and brittany spears, why can't we curse this great spirit in the sky who rules our imagination .... what makes him divine and poor iblees profane, when he created the poor bastar&d in the first place - it is sick to chew out the creation for the poor mistakes of the creator ...... divine! ... my ass !

Re: # 84

naqshbandi,

.... i apologize for lumping you with wild-eyed wahabis like urstruly and zeemax - you are a good man and if i ever decide to revert to the insanity of my former faith i will join your order ........ i have always wanted to put on a skirt and whirl around until i puke .......

Re: # 66

"I hope they become more popular within their native lands so the process is not just confined to the diaspora communities but where it really matters!"


hahhaha!! are you kidding.... you will get a fatwa against you or legal proceedings under blasphemy laws!!!... or find yourself linched by a screaming mob chanting "kafir, kafir"...

Re: # 89

Hamidm Sahib:

"...this great spirit in the sky who rules our imagination .... "

Is God the best imagination of man, or man is the best creation of God?

Does the above mean you too have this question in your belief system?

Re: # 90

Hamidm Sahib:

"..i will join your order ........ "

Have you not promised the same to tahmed sahib too?

What is going on, all these changes?

anil ji, only in jest....but hamidm2 sees prophethood for tahmed ji and wali status for naqsh bhai. :)

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hamidm2

"why we can't crtiticize the 'divine'?"

I guess, I will offer the same arguments as in # 79.

A Muslim can't criticize/blame/question the divine owing to the nature of his/her 'contract' with 'God' (and the nature of Muslims' God).

Now, it may seem that, as raw argued, a Muslim may want to go back and 're-write' that contract, but other Muslims, who have their own individual 'contracts' with the same God are likely to feel contract-bound to not let that happen.
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It's a very specific thing. One can easily imagine other kinds of contracts with other kinds of Gods, where the latter are not so protected.

If raw reads this, I would love to know if any of this seems logical to him.

I may add one more thing. Some 'Muslims' may (unjustifiably) feel a bit shortchanged because their God and their contract with their God does not allow revisions. But that would ignore enormous benefits that come with signing that contract.

Wish I could quote from a beautiful post that salim wrote about the benefits that accrue when one signs up. One suddenly gets about a billion human beings - men and women - who become more willing to help. That is an indescribably gain and assurance. This does not even include the psychic benefits of knowing that one is correctly leading life as desired by the true God in His final message.

Now, of course, in order to fully receive those benefits one has to do one's part fully as well. And these benefits beyond description cannot come without any costs, which might have to be paid in other ways.

Muslims, or those who wish to be Muslims, are generally willing to pay those costs. Look at Ahmedis, for instance!!

Eklavya,

The water carriers and the flag bearers like the new entrant akcheema will rant and rave and rack their minds with all sorts of queries, arguments, justifications, logic, criticisms, research - and what not - but they'll never leave the Caravan. The system which Islam is makes bloody sure of that!

Now do attempt to explain to cheema what the 'Caravan' and its 'self-maintaining/self-adjusting/self-generating' juggernaut Islam is!

(P.S. Just to annoy the people wondering whether the recent votes were for 'less Islam', Nawaz Sharif has said in a rally yesterday at Mansehra "Pakistan will be governed by the principles established by Allah and His Rasool". Haha ... sorry Laddu!)