Monday Morning Blast in Rawalpindi ... An eyewitness account
Sabahat Vahidy February 4, 2008
#328 Posted by jayp on February 13, 2008 12:09:27 am
Soaring meat prices start to bite
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
By Xari Jalil
Karachi
Even before the high prices of flour, edible oil and other essential commodities could be brought down, the prices of meat have begun to sky-rocket, thus becoming a grave cause for concern for the consumers.
At present, the current rate of mutton is between Rs250/kg to Rs270/kg, while beef is between Rs160/kg to Rs170/kg. The price of chicken has gone down by 10-15 rupees, since the outbreak of bird flu was reported. In fact, a high alert against the epidemic was declared a week ago. An earlier outbreak of bird flu occurred in 2006 followed by several cases in 2007 and those being reported these days.
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what is happening to the true green paki muslims. Are they forced to become vegetarians.
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
By Xari Jalil
Karachi
Even before the high prices of flour, edible oil and other essential commodities could be brought down, the prices of meat have begun to sky-rocket, thus becoming a grave cause for concern for the consumers.
At present, the current rate of mutton is between Rs250/kg to Rs270/kg, while beef is between Rs160/kg to Rs170/kg. The price of chicken has gone down by 10-15 rupees, since the outbreak of bird flu was reported. In fact, a high alert against the epidemic was declared a week ago. An earlier outbreak of bird flu occurred in 2006 followed by several cases in 2007 and those being reported these days.
///////////////////
what is happening to the true green paki muslims. Are they forced to become vegetarians.
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#327 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 11, 2008 8:38:04 am
Re: # 326 what are you talking makes no sense, what is this fund business. I am supporter of mutual fund and well run company like adamji insurance.
We talk too much, we need to have section here so learn about stocks, deveopers, real estate etc. Currency rates all good thing. About KSE and how one can make money. Its gold mine and if you know to by proper shares and what price etc. It will great fn and we can become with little more money. Let us have +ve attitude, I always have. You are full of -ve attitude, you have lost lots money at KSE I am sure. bye
We talk too much, we need to have section here so learn about stocks, deveopers, real estate etc. Currency rates all good thing. About KSE and how one can make money. Its gold mine and if you know to by proper shares and what price etc. It will great fn and we can become with little more money. Let us have +ve attitude, I always have. You are full of -ve attitude, you have lost lots money at KSE I am sure. bye
#326 Posted by chaltahai on February 11, 2008 8:23:12 am
ahmedmadani, sovereign funds almost always pay egregious premiums, arab sovereign funds are the worst of the lot. They don't have the intellectual capacity to be activitst therefore their IRR is always lower than a traditional PE fund. Saving citibank? are you kidding? this is the problem with arablunchooses....compare arabs to the chinese...they declined citibank...why?
#325 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 11, 2008 7:22:31 am
Re: # 322 Romair has point.
Gulf states are islands of wealth and helping world by lending money and saving big banks from going bankrupt.
They know how to make money and how to invest. Many big companies are owned by many wealthy groups from Gulf. They do not want to have problems of publicity so they are invisible.
When city bank went in trouble its indian manager went crying to arabs and they saved him from his financial ruins and bank was saved.
If I remember correct ( I do not remember or sometimes remember wrong) Romair once wrote about almost 20 billion dollars investment in Karachi by arabs to build new palacial place at two islands at Karachi. A new city can come there just likedubai. As usual poor people and fishermen do want little sacrifice from them to build and those anti development human rights people are looking for cause. No project will not go. Real money is in housing industry than manufacturing. Things will not change till poor are stopped from putting block to development all time.
Do not envy the resourceful finacial management of Gulf arabs but immitate them and become rich and better with money.
Gulf states are islands of wealth and helping world by lending money and saving big banks from going bankrupt.
They know how to make money and how to invest. Many big companies are owned by many wealthy groups from Gulf. They do not want to have problems of publicity so they are invisible.
When city bank went in trouble its indian manager went crying to arabs and they saved him from his financial ruins and bank was saved.
If I remember correct ( I do not remember or sometimes remember wrong) Romair once wrote about almost 20 billion dollars investment in Karachi by arabs to build new palacial place at two islands at Karachi. A new city can come there just likedubai. As usual poor people and fishermen do want little sacrifice from them to build and those anti development human rights people are looking for cause. No project will not go. Real money is in housing industry than manufacturing. Things will not change till poor are stopped from putting block to development all time.
Do not envy the resourceful finacial management of Gulf arabs but immitate them and become rich and better with money.
#324 Posted by arjun_5 on February 11, 2008 4:40:19 am
#323 Posted by chaltahai on February 11, 2008 4:37:30 am
Do you remember the saudi guy buying a whole bunch of MCI shares in 1999? I do..
Do you even remember MCI? I do...
Do you remember the saudi guy buying a whole bunch of MCI shares in 1999? I do..
Do you even remember MCI? I do...
#323 Posted by chaltahai on February 11, 2008 4:37:30 am
bulleya, buying wstern symbols of industry buy paying premiums to market that are obscene just to put capital to work is stupid. Any CEO holding a sinking ship heads off to the gulf for cheap money. These are passive investors. Not those who create value either for the investment or for themselves (i.e. country in the long term)They compete with private equity by raising the cost of equity, which is fine for shareholders. But stupid they still are...
#322 Posted by bulleya on February 10, 2008 9:21:10 pm
fuzair #: "There is probably a great deal of merit to greater decentralization of......Do the muhajirs get their own suba now?"
the more one travels the more one learns......when i was in the usa, i thought, like all americans (and all expats on this site) that i knew all there was to know about the world......until i moved and started living in other places.....
first of all, arabs (at least a major group of them) aren't as naive and as, "stupid" as everyone thinks they are.....the gcc is turning into a very large economic entity, which is flush with cash, and is ready to buy out the largest western symbols of industry......people are talking about china (and india)....keep an eye on the gcc........
anyways, the question is not of having a suba....the question of not trying to, forcefully, run historical civilizations which never existed on their own......it never works......south asia exists in such a state for a hundred years or so, and then breaks up for a thousand years......
.......uae is an ideal example.....seven sheikhdoms, each run differently - culturally, socially, ethically, financially - etc. from the other (as per the wishes of the ruling families in this case).......they have a single currency, foreign and defence policy......that's it.....rest is different.......laws on business, alcohol, dress, etc. are all different.....
similary, pakistan needs to be a union of independent provices/states......so what should the division be......well for starter. four provinces would be fine.......karachi would be in sindh.....
after that, they can divide further.....let the chief ministers run the provinces like prime ministers of their country......and one of them is elected figurehead prime minister of an entity called pakistan.......and let each provice establish its own domestic culture, policies etc.......
why are people in south asia so desparete to have large geographical areas as part of their countries, yet the migrate to tiny dubai at the drop of a hat....
as long as islamabad runs like dubai or lahore runs like singapore, and kohat runs like madina people in these cities should be happy, regardless of how large their country happens to be.........
the more one travels the more one learns......when i was in the usa, i thought, like all americans (and all expats on this site) that i knew all there was to know about the world......until i moved and started living in other places.....
first of all, arabs (at least a major group of them) aren't as naive and as, "stupid" as everyone thinks they are.....the gcc is turning into a very large economic entity, which is flush with cash, and is ready to buy out the largest western symbols of industry......people are talking about china (and india)....keep an eye on the gcc........
anyways, the question is not of having a suba....the question of not trying to, forcefully, run historical civilizations which never existed on their own......it never works......south asia exists in such a state for a hundred years or so, and then breaks up for a thousand years......
.......uae is an ideal example.....seven sheikhdoms, each run differently - culturally, socially, ethically, financially - etc. from the other (as per the wishes of the ruling families in this case).......they have a single currency, foreign and defence policy......that's it.....rest is different.......laws on business, alcohol, dress, etc. are all different.....
similary, pakistan needs to be a union of independent provices/states......so what should the division be......well for starter. four provinces would be fine.......karachi would be in sindh.....
after that, they can divide further.....let the chief ministers run the provinces like prime ministers of their country......and one of them is elected figurehead prime minister of an entity called pakistan.......and let each provice establish its own domestic culture, policies etc.......
why are people in south asia so desparete to have large geographical areas as part of their countries, yet the migrate to tiny dubai at the drop of a hat....
as long as islamabad runs like dubai or lahore runs like singapore, and kohat runs like madina people in these cities should be happy, regardless of how large their country happens to be.........
#321 Posted by Skeptical on February 10, 2008 8:05:02 pm
Re: # 247
Mr Jayp kindly read my post no 103 with open eyes....
I never denied that ideology or for that matter what you call social set up has nothing to do with that...
You have given examples of so called other muslim countries...
Well suicide bombing has largely been a trademark of Arab nationals and they by no stretch of imagination are Pakistanis.....
Secondly other "non violent" countries do not have Afghanistan right next to their border and they never had the experience of huge amounts of American money to actually set up the apparatus...
The so called "cultural" factors only become active when there is a stimulus...
Factors are multiple and often complicated.....
And all I am asking is to be less arrogant....
Both of us are not intellectual giants.....
And when it comes to social sciences even giants can not be sure.....
It is a good thing to exercise caution and have a healthy dose of skepticism....
Mr Jayp kindly read my post no 103 with open eyes....
I never denied that ideology or for that matter what you call social set up has nothing to do with that...
You have given examples of so called other muslim countries...
Well suicide bombing has largely been a trademark of Arab nationals and they by no stretch of imagination are Pakistanis.....
Secondly other "non violent" countries do not have Afghanistan right next to their border and they never had the experience of huge amounts of American money to actually set up the apparatus...
The so called "cultural" factors only become active when there is a stimulus...
Factors are multiple and often complicated.....
And all I am asking is to be less arrogant....
Both of us are not intellectual giants.....
And when it comes to social sciences even giants can not be sure.....
It is a good thing to exercise caution and have a healthy dose of skepticism....
#320 Posted by jang on February 10, 2008 10:55:34 am
yar i recall the time when train-loads of tourists from Raja Travels would go to kashmir..now its trickled down to plane-loads :(
these tourists brought back warm feelings about kashmiri land and its people and some crappy overprised walnut wood shikaras, pencil-boxes and fake saffron. then offcourse the jihad happened supported by the religion of peace.
these tourists brought back warm feelings about kashmiri land and its people and some crappy overprised walnut wood shikaras, pencil-boxes and fake saffron. then offcourse the jihad happened supported by the religion of peace.
#319 Posted by fuzair on February 10, 2008 8:35:32 am
Romair,
Selig Harrison is a long-time Pakistan hater; suspect he is on RAW's payroll ;-) His book on Baluchistan is an excellent account of the insurgency and why it failed, despite its obvious anti Pakistan bias.
His analysis is occasionally on the money despite the crap about an Afghan empire (carved up by the Sikhs before the British came on the scene) or the Pathan animosity towards Pakistan: most of the Pathans I've known personally have been Pakistani nationalists, even those from the tribal areas! Which is not to say they loved Punjabis, but that they didn't hate Pakistan as a "Punjabistan" the way some Sindhis and Baluchis I've known hate it.
There is probably a great deal of merit to greater decentralization of Pakistan and greater provincial autonomy but it would have to be done, I think, along with breaking up the provinces along linguistic/ethnic lines a la India. However, breaking up Punjab, for e.g., into three or four provinces would raise the question of what to do about Sindh? Do the muhajirs get their own suba now?
Selig Harrison is a long-time Pakistan hater; suspect he is on RAW's payroll ;-) His book on Baluchistan is an excellent account of the insurgency and why it failed, despite its obvious anti Pakistan bias.
His analysis is occasionally on the money despite the crap about an Afghan empire (carved up by the Sikhs before the British came on the scene) or the Pathan animosity towards Pakistan: most of the Pathans I've known personally have been Pakistani nationalists, even those from the tribal areas! Which is not to say they loved Punjabis, but that they didn't hate Pakistan as a "Punjabistan" the way some Sindhis and Baluchis I've known hate it.
There is probably a great deal of merit to greater decentralization of Pakistan and greater provincial autonomy but it would have to be done, I think, along with breaking up the provinces along linguistic/ethnic lines a la India. However, breaking up Punjab, for e.g., into three or four provinces would raise the question of what to do about Sindh? Do the muhajirs get their own suba now?
#317 Posted by arjun_5 on February 10, 2008 6:52:03 am
#313 Posted by bulleya on February 10, 2008 1:11:06 am
what will baluchistan do without pakistan.....they have nothing......they are in huge deficits......at best they can rent out their area for natural resources to someone....
that's funny coming from a purelander..considering pureland has prostituted itself out..
seriously...your "geo-strategic" location is like a parking spot in downtown Manhattan...your only use is to the people who rent you out..without a renter, you're worth diddly squat..and even when you are rented out, there's only so much you can make out of it...
what will baluchistan do without pakistan.....they have nothing......they are in huge deficits......at best they can rent out their area for natural resources to someone....
that's funny coming from a purelander..considering pureland has prostituted itself out..
seriously...your "geo-strategic" location is like a parking spot in downtown Manhattan...your only use is to the people who rent you out..without a renter, you're worth diddly squat..and even when you are rented out, there's only so much you can make out of it...
#316 Posted by Pew_Research on February 10, 2008 5:25:28 am
Re: # 313 Bulleya
"......how many have indians have visited kashmir......"
Even now it is a dream destination for millions of honeymooners from the dusty plains of India. Domestic tourism is Kashmir's biggest industry.
"......how many have indians have visited kashmir......"
Even now it is a dream destination for millions of honeymooners from the dusty plains of India. Domestic tourism is Kashmir's biggest industry.
#315 Posted by Pew_Research on February 10, 2008 5:22:13 am
Re: # 302 Arjun2
You had me in splits:) The wonders of the Internet and search capabilities. I noticed that Bulleya (formerly Romair) had in #302 said, '...I wanna go back and put on the uniform...". This burger's identification with the Yanks was so complete that he even adopted their slang! Never mind the fact that he wasn't going to don the uniform to distribute jalebis to the Taleban! And now in #314 he is self-righteously heaping scorn on Hamidm for advocating an anti-jihadist fight!
Thank you very much!
You had me in splits:) The wonders of the Internet and search capabilities. I noticed that Bulleya (formerly Romair) had in #302 said, '...I wanna go back and put on the uniform...". This burger's identification with the Yanks was so complete that he even adopted their slang! Never mind the fact that he wasn't going to don the uniform to distribute jalebis to the Taleban! And now in #314 he is self-righteously heaping scorn on Hamidm for advocating an anti-jihadist fight!
Thank you very much!
#314 Posted by bulleya on February 10, 2008 1:18:06 am
shankar #: "C'man yaar. Hamid's forte is his inimitable cynical wit.....Urstruly...morality, except those who agree with his brand of Islam."
hamidm mian is, hands down, by a long shot, the largest supporter of violence on this site......there is no one else who comes close.....and i am not talking about cynicism, and wit......unfortunately, he gave up on wit - his most valuable habit - when bush invaded iraq......
his violence does not bother a certain group of people, who agree with his political views......that is no difference than people who agree with obl's views and are not bothered by his violence......
urstruly, generally, does not support violence as a solution........though he does support a narrow self-centered interpretation of religion, which has little room for anyone other than those who agree with him......
so both have huge appeal for certain groups, but have very little room for those who disagree with them.......urstruly's view is to islamize those who disagree, and hamidm mian's view is to kill them.......
one does it through religious interpretations and arguments, the other through wit and political interpretations........
all in all, quite a few similarities between the two.......one loves his religion and ridicules the country he lives......the other loves the country he lives and ridicules the religion he is a part of.....neither has enough courage to move out the country or religion, respectively....
hamidm mian is, hands down, by a long shot, the largest supporter of violence on this site......there is no one else who comes close.....and i am not talking about cynicism, and wit......unfortunately, he gave up on wit - his most valuable habit - when bush invaded iraq......
his violence does not bother a certain group of people, who agree with his political views......that is no difference than people who agree with obl's views and are not bothered by his violence......
urstruly, generally, does not support violence as a solution........though he does support a narrow self-centered interpretation of religion, which has little room for anyone other than those who agree with him......
so both have huge appeal for certain groups, but have very little room for those who disagree with them.......urstruly's view is to islamize those who disagree, and hamidm mian's view is to kill them.......
one does it through religious interpretations and arguments, the other through wit and political interpretations........
all in all, quite a few similarities between the two.......one loves his religion and ridicules the country he lives......the other loves the country he lives and ridicules the religion he is a part of.....neither has enough courage to move out the country or religion, respectively....
#313 Posted by bulleya on February 10, 2008 1:11:06 am
SR #: ....the best thing that could happen to pakistan is to be decentralized into autonomous regions, like the uae.....in fact this is the best thing that can happen to most regions, which are an amulgamation and combinaiton of multiple civilizations.......
there is absoutely nothing enchanting about people living in one large country.......as long as one lives in an efficiently running city, and has access to economic opportunities in surroudning cities/countries, all is well.....in the end we spend around 90%+ of our lives in the cities we live in........
how many people have visited waziristan from pakistan......how many have indians have visited kashmir......why in the world are people so emotionally attached to areas, they have nothing to do with.......
........the world works on the basis of economics.......and economics requires peace and a stable system (it doesn't even require democracy, as china and uae have shown; though democracy helps).......
.......so pakistan should break up (or crack) into four or so states.....these states should have their chief minister who runs the state, like uae states.......and then the chief ministers meet, every now and then, to decide a common foreign policy and defence policy, with common currenty etc.......
as for regions breaking off from this autonomous federated entity, i don't think they will break off so easily.......the good mr. selig seems to have limited knowledge of pakistan......
why in the world will tribal areas folks join with afghanistan.....they can do that today......people from afghanistan are flooding into pakistan......no one goes the other way.......tribal areas are funded by pakistan for electricity, economics etc........it is the opposite of taxation without representation......they have representation without taxation in pakistan.......
and how in the world will an independent pukhtunistan survive?
what will baluchistan do without pakistan.....they have nothing......they are in huge deficits......at best they can rent out their area for natural resources to someone....
.......and what will a rump landlocked punjab do......can it unite with indian punjab?.....it will be nobody.....
actually the only area in pakistan, which can survive independently is sind with karachi included.....it will have reveneus, a coast line etc........though ethnic conflicts.......the rest of pakistan can either be one country or a loosely federated union.....
so its time for pakistan to turn into a loosely federated union like uae.......i think it will start to progress and each region will be at peace with itself.....if you want shariah, instead of pushing karachi and lahore into it, you live in nwfp, which would be shariah state.....if you want to party, move to lahore and karachi, instead of trying to enforce enlightened moderation on waziristan......
exactly like uae.....you can party all night long in dubai, but cannot drink (?) in neighboring sharjah........sharjah and dubai are as close as islamabad and pindi (and as small)........
the problem is that this federating should happen peacefully and not violently........
there is absoutely nothing enchanting about people living in one large country.......as long as one lives in an efficiently running city, and has access to economic opportunities in surroudning cities/countries, all is well.....in the end we spend around 90%+ of our lives in the cities we live in........
how many people have visited waziristan from pakistan......how many have indians have visited kashmir......why in the world are people so emotionally attached to areas, they have nothing to do with.......
........the world works on the basis of economics.......and economics requires peace and a stable system (it doesn't even require democracy, as china and uae have shown; though democracy helps).......
.......so pakistan should break up (or crack) into four or so states.....these states should have their chief minister who runs the state, like uae states.......and then the chief ministers meet, every now and then, to decide a common foreign policy and defence policy, with common currenty etc.......
as for regions breaking off from this autonomous federated entity, i don't think they will break off so easily.......the good mr. selig seems to have limited knowledge of pakistan......
why in the world will tribal areas folks join with afghanistan.....they can do that today......people from afghanistan are flooding into pakistan......no one goes the other way.......tribal areas are funded by pakistan for electricity, economics etc........it is the opposite of taxation without representation......they have representation without taxation in pakistan.......
and how in the world will an independent pukhtunistan survive?
what will baluchistan do without pakistan.....they have nothing......they are in huge deficits......at best they can rent out their area for natural resources to someone....
.......and what will a rump landlocked punjab do......can it unite with indian punjab?.....it will be nobody.....
actually the only area in pakistan, which can survive independently is sind with karachi included.....it will have reveneus, a coast line etc........though ethnic conflicts.......the rest of pakistan can either be one country or a loosely federated union.....
so its time for pakistan to turn into a loosely federated union like uae.......i think it will start to progress and each region will be at peace with itself.....if you want shariah, instead of pushing karachi and lahore into it, you live in nwfp, which would be shariah state.....if you want to party, move to lahore and karachi, instead of trying to enforce enlightened moderation on waziristan......
exactly like uae.....you can party all night long in dubai, but cannot drink (?) in neighboring sharjah........sharjah and dubai are as close as islamabad and pindi (and as small)........
the problem is that this federating should happen peacefully and not violently........
#312 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 9, 2008 10:03:48 pm
Re: # 310 Your thinking is right.
The most adverse effect of colonial rule was mental depression for natives and mental slavery. Like burning heat of Punjab a "peon" will suffocate himself with coat , pants and tie and his cap. Mr Gandhi became popular with masses one reason was he was not shy of his dark body and go without "suit boot" even when he went see english emperor , no question of inferiority. Just like a lion is not worried about his body Gandhi destroyed "sahibs" superficial dressing superiority by useing dhoti and little loin cloth as natives do from time immorial times suitaed to climate of hindustan.
Amin is misfortunate to be born where pigmyis are appreciated. and excellence and intelluctual exercised is avoided and discouraged and mediocrity is prefered. Its hard for intelligent to be living and discussing with mental slaves of racism, untruth, hypocracy. religious nuts and outright stupidity taken to higher heights by profanity and abuses. All truth is slaughtered on alter of "isms" and nationalism.
It is sad to see many calling A.Amin does not know nothing including about army affairs. Discussion if done at intelluctual level and understanding and knowing fallability of everybody can lead to mental liberation and sublimation at least with age. Profanity leads to opposite effect.
Amin has done well for he intelluctual capacity and courage goes aginst current to find source and most just give up as its hard intelluctually to examine existing beliefs under light and discard wrong things. We all should learn from him. We have brains and we have mental capacity like eagle to go high and look at things and draw conclusions based on truth and logical thinking than religious or nationalistic blinders. Just as eagle sours in sky he has no hevenly guidence but his understanding of his sky. So all should try to go up and as said in book truth will set you free.
The most adverse effect of colonial rule was mental depression for natives and mental slavery. Like burning heat of Punjab a "peon" will suffocate himself with coat , pants and tie and his cap. Mr Gandhi became popular with masses one reason was he was not shy of his dark body and go without "suit boot" even when he went see english emperor , no question of inferiority. Just like a lion is not worried about his body Gandhi destroyed "sahibs" superficial dressing superiority by useing dhoti and little loin cloth as natives do from time immorial times suitaed to climate of hindustan.
Amin is misfortunate to be born where pigmyis are appreciated. and excellence and intelluctual exercised is avoided and discouraged and mediocrity is prefered. Its hard for intelligent to be living and discussing with mental slaves of racism, untruth, hypocracy. religious nuts and outright stupidity taken to higher heights by profanity and abuses. All truth is slaughtered on alter of "isms" and nationalism.
It is sad to see many calling A.Amin does not know nothing including about army affairs. Discussion if done at intelluctual level and understanding and knowing fallability of everybody can lead to mental liberation and sublimation at least with age. Profanity leads to opposite effect.
Amin has done well for he intelluctual capacity and courage goes aginst current to find source and most just give up as its hard intelluctually to examine existing beliefs under light and discard wrong things. We all should learn from him. We have brains and we have mental capacity like eagle to go high and look at things and draw conclusions based on truth and logical thinking than religious or nationalistic blinders. Just as eagle sours in sky he has no hevenly guidence but his understanding of his sky. So all should try to go up and as said in book truth will set you free.
#311 Posted by pavocavalry on February 9, 2008 9:50:04 pm
Pakistan is on the road to Balkanization
by A. H. Amin
(Monday, December 5, 2005)
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"Musharraf's policies and his petty opportunism are a grave danger for the region. It is possible that in the end his policies may prove to be seriously counterproductive for world peace."
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When war is expensive beyond acceptance a Trojan Horse is the best option. A Trojan Horse is economical, easier to manipulate and the strategic course less subject to the friction of war.
Lately, the USA has successfully applied this strategy in the Islamic world. The first Trojan Horse of note was Sadaat an ambitious man from a humble background who delivered the most fatal stab wound in the back of the Muslim world. This Trojan horse was delivered the coup de grace by a fearless Egyptian subaltern Islambouli. Another deadly Trojan Horse was the Shah of Iran.
The post 9/11 era is an era of Trojan Horses in the Muslim world. They rule in the name of sanity. In reality they are anesthetists employed to administer a strategic anesthesia to the core convictions of the Muslim masses. Usually men with little political clout, a minority ethnic status, avaricious, conceited, sons settled in the USA, and with little connection with Islam or the real aspirations of a Muslim.
Pakistan was created in 1947 and soon the Pakistani generals in league with British trained civil servants and feudal lords started a joint Jihad to destroy Pakistan's democracy which finally succeeded in 1958. Since 1958 Pakistani military junta has ruled the country and used the Kashmir Dispute as a reason for gobbling up Pakistan's 70 % budget. In the process Pakistani military miserably failed in 1965 war despite significant superiority over Indians in number and quality of equipment. The matter is discussed in great detail in my book The Pakistan Army till 1965 held at US Army Staff College and War College Libraries and also at Air War College Karachi Library. The Staff College Quetta had refused to accept it in their library.
All along Pakistani military junta used various pretexts to solicit Western military and financial aid, the ulterior motive being to consolidate its own position in the Pakistani power politics. First it used the Soviet threat to get US aid. Later it used Afghan war as an excuse for getting aid and now it is using the Islamist Threat as an excuse for getting aid. Even this earthquake is a golden opportunity for this avaricious and corrupt military junta.
When I was research aide with Ikram Sehgal in 2002 one day he told me to prepare draft of a presentation that he had been asked to deliver at the army's National Defence College. The highlight of the topic given to him by the National Defense College (NDC) was that "Ideology is no longer fashionable"!. At that time the NDC had a commandant who in his book had made the Mogul Emperor fight at Panipat after he had died in his book India - A Study in Profile!. Ironically, the same general was the architect of the Kargil blunder as the divisional commander of Northern Areas. Interestingly, before Kargil he was in DC as Defense Attaché!
Recently, General Musharraf has started another jugglery show claiming that he is the man of peace. A good move since Kashmir and USSR are no longer in vogue. Musharraf states that he wants friendship with India and Israel. We do not question his good intentions but taken in depth this signals Musharraf's acceptance that 1947 partition of India was a faux pas. If so many Muslims were killed in 1947, 1965 and 1971 then what was the use of the whole exercise in futility. If Israel is now being engaged by Pakistan's military junta - why it was not done earlier? Why this whole game? Seen in depth, Pakistan's military junta has an institutional interest in peace now. It wanted war when it suited its institutional interests and it wants peace when it suits Musharraf. Seen in this context, Pakistani military junta may be initiating a process similar to the one initiated by Gorbachev that led to disintegration of USSR.
Surely, if India is not a threat, why have such a large army? Why not undo the federal structure and let Balochistan and Sindh and NWFP be states as initially hinted in the Pakistan Resolution of 1940. Why should Pakistan Army be building cantonments in Balochistan?
What Musharraf is indirectly signaling is that partition was a blunder? That war is good when it is good for Pakistani military junta and bad when it does not suit the Pakistani military junta? This is an indirect attack on Pakistan's ideology. Who says that the last Mir Jafar was produced in 1757?
If Musharraf is to be believed then Three wars were fought for no reason. Afghanistan destroyed by pursuing an adventuresome and a genocidal foreign policy by all starting from Ayub, Zia down to Naseerullah Babar and even Musharraf as he stood before 9/11.
The West must not forget that Musharraf may prove to be a liability rather than an asset for the world in the long run. What must be understood is the fact that Musharraf's appeasement of the West will lead to a massive Islamist backlash. Musharraf is far more fragile now than anyone can imagine. Cheap adventure-ism as well as cheap appeasement is equally dangerous. The Pakistan Army was a laughing-stock when they bogged down at Khem Karan. Now Musharraf has proved that all was a grand strategic fraud. If peace with India was good why did not the Pakistani generals did it earlier. Why, so that they could gobble 70 to 80 % of Pakistan's budget every year since 1958? These are serious questions, which no Pakistani politician is asking. Why at least 50,000 Baloch killed since 1947? Why this aimless genocide? Why were 1 million Afghans killed from 1978 till to date just because the military usurper Zia wanted US money and Stingers to sell in the black market? Why is everyone silent?
Musharraf's short-term theatrics need to be reviewed seriously. If all that he states is right then Pakistan will have to re-think its ideology. If Pakistan leaves its ideology then it is a state comprising nationalities, a multi-ethnic state. The Pakistani military junta must not forget that since 1958 Pakistan was an army with a state rather than a state with an army. If now Pakistani military junta makes grand claims of peace in order to please USA, Pakistan is on the road to Balkanization.
What Musharraf has initiated is a dangerous game. Paying in the short run - but - self-destructive for the Pakistani military junta in the long run. Possibly good for the region if a self-serving military machine is reduced to size. Possibly dangerous for the region if a backlash starts and Islamic extremism is the main beneficiary. Musharaff's policies need to be questioned not only by the Pakistani people but also by the whole world.
In the Pakistani context following may be the implications:
Pakistan's smaller provinces may question the rationale for Pakistan. If India is not a threat and Afghanistan is a friend why not have an independent Baloch, Pashtun or Sindhi state. Why have a large army which has been involved in a dangerous foreign policy and in aggression against Pakistan's neighbors. The Durand Line may have significance for the Pakistani junta but for the Baloch and Pashtun it is a Berlin Wall, which will become meaningless one day.
Why should Pakistan have a nuclear program and a large standing army. Why should not the US insist that Pakistan reduce its army and dismantle its nuclear warheads.
Conversely if the Pakistan Army is reduced - why should the smaller provinces stay with the Pakistani Federal State. It is only the coercive force of the army that has kept the Pakistani confederation together.
Why should not Pakistan's neighbors demand a redrawing of boundaries.
Musharraf's policies and his petty opportunism are a grave danger for the region. It is possible that in the end his policies may prove to be seriously counter-productive for world peace. The Pakistani military junta needs to stop playing games, which it has been playing since 1954 when it entered Pakistani politics as a subversive force and since 1982 when it entered regional politics as a subversive adventurous force. The USA must understand that they are not dealing with rational good-natured men but with crafty opportunists who may prove to be a serious strategic liability.
Who has given the Pakistani military junta to decide what is good and what is bad for Pakistan, if their claims are to be believed as now Musharraf states Pakistan was a faux pas?
Now in order to divert the mass' attention Musharraf has come up with a new diversionary scheme that he would build reservoirs. What he wants is to woo the Punjabis, emotional people that they are, but more fatally pitch Punjab against Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan. As an ex army officer, I am surprised where are the fabled corps commanders? Where is the ideology of Pakistan? Who has given a general dismissed by this country's elected Prime Minister the right to do whatever he pleases to do? Musharraf's strategic decisions are taken as if Pakistan is a Paan to be chewed. Sometimes a sweet one and sometimes a sour one. May Allah help Pakistan. Ranjit Singh imported Tejh Singh from Meerut with the hope that a non-Jat army chief would be a blessing. Tejh Singh destroyed the Khalsa at Mudki and Feroz shah in 1845. British historian Malleson recognized that had Tejh Singh not been treacherous the Sikhs would have been won. Alas! it is the tragedy of the Indus Valley that it never trusted its sons.
Some day Kargil and the post 9/11 Pakistani policy may be examined and more Tejh Singhs discovered.
Americans don't trust Trojan Horses for they are really exciting the desire to atone and vindicate the lost honor in the whole Muslim World.
Or is it possible that Musharraf is USA's Trojan Horse to deal with the "Final Solution" of the Pakistani WMDs. This is a matter which historians will decide.
by A. H. Amin
(Monday, December 5, 2005)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
"Musharraf's policies and his petty opportunism are a grave danger for the region. It is possible that in the end his policies may prove to be seriously counterproductive for world peace."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------
When war is expensive beyond acceptance a Trojan Horse is the best option. A Trojan Horse is economical, easier to manipulate and the strategic course less subject to the friction of war.
Lately, the USA has successfully applied this strategy in the Islamic world. The first Trojan Horse of note was Sadaat an ambitious man from a humble background who delivered the most fatal stab wound in the back of the Muslim world. This Trojan horse was delivered the coup de grace by a fearless Egyptian subaltern Islambouli. Another deadly Trojan Horse was the Shah of Iran.
The post 9/11 era is an era of Trojan Horses in the Muslim world. They rule in the name of sanity. In reality they are anesthetists employed to administer a strategic anesthesia to the core convictions of the Muslim masses. Usually men with little political clout, a minority ethnic status, avaricious, conceited, sons settled in the USA, and with little connection with Islam or the real aspirations of a Muslim.
Pakistan was created in 1947 and soon the Pakistani generals in league with British trained civil servants and feudal lords started a joint Jihad to destroy Pakistan's democracy which finally succeeded in 1958. Since 1958 Pakistani military junta has ruled the country and used the Kashmir Dispute as a reason for gobbling up Pakistan's 70 % budget. In the process Pakistani military miserably failed in 1965 war despite significant superiority over Indians in number and quality of equipment. The matter is discussed in great detail in my book The Pakistan Army till 1965 held at US Army Staff College and War College Libraries and also at Air War College Karachi Library. The Staff College Quetta had refused to accept it in their library.
All along Pakistani military junta used various pretexts to solicit Western military and financial aid, the ulterior motive being to consolidate its own position in the Pakistani power politics. First it used the Soviet threat to get US aid. Later it used Afghan war as an excuse for getting aid and now it is using the Islamist Threat as an excuse for getting aid. Even this earthquake is a golden opportunity for this avaricious and corrupt military junta.
When I was research aide with Ikram Sehgal in 2002 one day he told me to prepare draft of a presentation that he had been asked to deliver at the army's National Defence College. The highlight of the topic given to him by the National Defense College (NDC) was that "Ideology is no longer fashionable"!. At that time the NDC had a commandant who in his book had made the Mogul Emperor fight at Panipat after he had died in his book India - A Study in Profile!. Ironically, the same general was the architect of the Kargil blunder as the divisional commander of Northern Areas. Interestingly, before Kargil he was in DC as Defense Attaché!
Recently, General Musharraf has started another jugglery show claiming that he is the man of peace. A good move since Kashmir and USSR are no longer in vogue. Musharraf states that he wants friendship with India and Israel. We do not question his good intentions but taken in depth this signals Musharraf's acceptance that 1947 partition of India was a faux pas. If so many Muslims were killed in 1947, 1965 and 1971 then what was the use of the whole exercise in futility. If Israel is now being engaged by Pakistan's military junta - why it was not done earlier? Why this whole game? Seen in depth, Pakistan's military junta has an institutional interest in peace now. It wanted war when it suited its institutional interests and it wants peace when it suits Musharraf. Seen in this context, Pakistani military junta may be initiating a process similar to the one initiated by Gorbachev that led to disintegration of USSR.
Surely, if India is not a threat, why have such a large army? Why not undo the federal structure and let Balochistan and Sindh and NWFP be states as initially hinted in the Pakistan Resolution of 1940. Why should Pakistan Army be building cantonments in Balochistan?
What Musharraf is indirectly signaling is that partition was a blunder? That war is good when it is good for Pakistani military junta and bad when it does not suit the Pakistani military junta? This is an indirect attack on Pakistan's ideology. Who says that the last Mir Jafar was produced in 1757?
If Musharraf is to be believed then Three wars were fought for no reason. Afghanistan destroyed by pursuing an adventuresome and a genocidal foreign policy by all starting from Ayub, Zia down to Naseerullah Babar and even Musharraf as he stood before 9/11.
The West must not forget that Musharraf may prove to be a liability rather than an asset for the world in the long run. What must be understood is the fact that Musharraf's appeasement of the West will lead to a massive Islamist backlash. Musharraf is far more fragile now than anyone can imagine. Cheap adventure-ism as well as cheap appeasement is equally dangerous. The Pakistan Army was a laughing-stock when they bogged down at Khem Karan. Now Musharraf has proved that all was a grand strategic fraud. If peace with India was good why did not the Pakistani generals did it earlier. Why, so that they could gobble 70 to 80 % of Pakistan's budget every year since 1958? These are serious questions, which no Pakistani politician is asking. Why at least 50,000 Baloch killed since 1947? Why this aimless genocide? Why were 1 million Afghans killed from 1978 till to date just because the military usurper Zia wanted US money and Stingers to sell in the black market? Why is everyone silent?
Musharraf's short-term theatrics need to be reviewed seriously. If all that he states is right then Pakistan will have to re-think its ideology. If Pakistan leaves its ideology then it is a state comprising nationalities, a multi-ethnic state. The Pakistani military junta must not forget that since 1958 Pakistan was an army with a state rather than a state with an army. If now Pakistani military junta makes grand claims of peace in order to please USA, Pakistan is on the road to Balkanization.
What Musharraf has initiated is a dangerous game. Paying in the short run - but - self-destructive for the Pakistani military junta in the long run. Possibly good for the region if a self-serving military machine is reduced to size. Possibly dangerous for the region if a backlash starts and Islamic extremism is the main beneficiary. Musharaff's policies need to be questioned not only by the Pakistani people but also by the whole world.
In the Pakistani context following may be the implications:
Pakistan's smaller provinces may question the rationale for Pakistan. If India is not a threat and Afghanistan is a friend why not have an independent Baloch, Pashtun or Sindhi state. Why have a large army which has been involved in a dangerous foreign policy and in aggression against Pakistan's neighbors. The Durand Line may have significance for the Pakistani junta but for the Baloch and Pashtun it is a Berlin Wall, which will become meaningless one day.
Why should Pakistan have a nuclear program and a large standing army. Why should not the US insist that Pakistan reduce its army and dismantle its nuclear warheads.
Conversely if the Pakistan Army is reduced - why should the smaller provinces stay with the Pakistani Federal State. It is only the coercive force of the army that has kept the Pakistani confederation together.
Why should not Pakistan's neighbors demand a redrawing of boundaries.
Musharraf's policies and his petty opportunism are a grave danger for the region. It is possible that in the end his policies may prove to be seriously counter-productive for world peace. The Pakistani military junta needs to stop playing games, which it has been playing since 1954 when it entered Pakistani politics as a subversive force and since 1982 when it entered regional politics as a subversive adventurous force. The USA must understand that they are not dealing with rational good-natured men but with crafty opportunists who may prove to be a serious strategic liability.
Who has given the Pakistani military junta to decide what is good and what is bad for Pakistan, if their claims are to be believed as now Musharraf states Pakistan was a faux pas?
Now in order to divert the mass' attention Musharraf has come up with a new diversionary scheme that he would build reservoirs. What he wants is to woo the Punjabis, emotional people that they are, but more fatally pitch Punjab against Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan. As an ex army officer, I am surprised where are the fabled corps commanders? Where is the ideology of Pakistan? Who has given a general dismissed by this country's elected Prime Minister the right to do whatever he pleases to do? Musharraf's strategic decisions are taken as if Pakistan is a Paan to be chewed. Sometimes a sweet one and sometimes a sour one. May Allah help Pakistan. Ranjit Singh imported Tejh Singh from Meerut with the hope that a non-Jat army chief would be a blessing. Tejh Singh destroyed the Khalsa at Mudki and Feroz shah in 1845. British historian Malleson recognized that had Tejh Singh not been treacherous the Sikhs would have been won. Alas! it is the tragedy of the Indus Valley that it never trusted its sons.
Some day Kargil and the post 9/11 Pakistani policy may be examined and more Tejh Singhs discovered.
Americans don't trust Trojan Horses for they are really exciting the desire to atone and vindicate the lost honor in the whole Muslim World.
Or is it possible that Musharraf is USA's Trojan Horse to deal with the "Final Solution" of the Pakistani WMDs. This is a matter which historians will decide.
#310 Posted by pavocavalry on February 9, 2008 9:28:31 pm
we have been stating this for many years.its on record at various sites and in print . but u see NYT is a Jewish publication and they have their own agenda.
#308 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 9, 2008 8:43:02 pm
Re: # 306 It is ironic wonder mr. S S Salisbury have given short synopsis of what our major Aga Amin had written amy be years ago.
Probably mr. Salisbury must have charged few hundred dollars for this extract from Major Amins article. Great immitation by this mr. salisbury. Now our brit brainwashed browns brits should not feel to say Amin knows more than the white british man.
Probably mr. Salisbury must have charged few hundred dollars for this extract from Major Amins article. Great immitation by this mr. salisbury. Now our brit brainwashed browns brits should not feel to say Amin knows more than the white british man.
#307 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 7:54:50 pm
Re: # 300
urstruly,
..... you left michigan without telling me ! .... what happened ? ..... did you move to canada as a protest against the us elite ?........too bad ..... i would have taken you down to eight mile road and bought you some lap dances to send you off in style ...... maybe we can meet in toronto have that drink after ll this time ........ i will miss you .......... now don't go and do something stupid like signing up as a suicide bomber - that job doesn't have much of a future ......
urstruly,
..... you left michigan without telling me ! .... what happened ? ..... did you move to canada as a protest against the us elite ?........too bad ..... i would have taken you down to eight mile road and bought you some lap dances to send you off in style ...... maybe we can meet in toronto have that drink after ll this time ........ i will miss you .......... now don't go and do something stupid like signing up as a suicide bomber - that job doesn't have much of a future ......
#306 Posted by SR on February 9, 2008 7:53:58 pm
This is a "cut" that I just had to "paste"... Islamabad seems to be going the way of Belgrade.
What's it like living in a "Punjabi rump state?"
February 1, 2008
NY Times Op-Ed Contributor
DRAWN and QUARTERED
By SELIG S. HARRISON
Washington
WHATEVER the outcome of the Pakistani elections, now scheduled for Feb. 18, the existing multiethnic Pakistani state is not likely to survive for long unless it is radically restructured.
Given enough American pressure, a loosely united, confederated Pakistan could still be preserved by reinstating and liberalizing the defunct 1973 Constitution, which has been shelved by successive military rulers. But as matters stand, the Punjabi-dominated regime of Pervez Musharraf is headed for a bloody confrontation with the country's Pashtun, Baluch and Sindhi minorities that could well lead to the breakup of Pakistan into three sovereign entities.
In that event, the Pashtuns, concentrated in the northwestern tribal areas, would join with their ethnic brethren across the Afghan border (some 40 million of them combined) to form an independent "Pashtunistan." The Sindhis in the southeast, numbering 23 million, would unite with the six million Baluch tribesmen in the southwest to establish a federation along the Arabian Sea from India to Iran. "Pakistan" would then be a nuclear-armed Punjabi rump state.
In historical context, such a breakup would not be surprising. There had never been a national entity encompassing the areas now constituting Pakistan, an ethnic mélange thrown together hastily by the British for strategic reasons when they partitioned the subcontinent in 1947.
For those of Pashtun, Sindhi and Baluch ethnicity, independence from colonial rule created a bitter paradox. After resisting Punjabi domination for centuries, they found themselves subjected to Punjabi-dominated military regimes that have appropriated many of the natural resources in the minority provinces — particularly the natural gas deposits in the Baluch areas — and siphoned off much of the Indus River's waters as they flow through the Punjab.
The resulting Punjabi-Pashtun animosity helps explain why the United States is failing to get effective Pakistani cooperation in fighting terrorists. The Pashtuns living along the Afghan border are happy to give sanctuary from Punjabi forces to the Taliban, which is composed primarily of fellow Pashtuns, and to its Qaeda friends.
Pashtun civilian casualties resulting from Pakistani and American air strikes on both sides of the border are breeding a potent underground Pashtun nationalist movement. Its initial objective is to unite all Pashtuns in Pakistan, now divided among political jurisdictions, into a unified province. In time, however, its leaders envisage full nationhood. After all, before the British came, the Pashtuns had been politically united under the banner of an Afghan empire that stretched eastward into the Punjabi heartland.
The Baluch people, for their part, have been waging intermittent insurgencies since their forced incorporation into Pakistan in 1947. In the current warfare Pakistani forces are widely reported to be deploying American-supplied aircraft and intelligence equipment that was intended for use in Afghan border areas. Their victims are forging military links with Sindhi nationalist groups that have been galvanized into action by the death of Benazir Bhutto, a Sindhi hero as was her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.
The breakup of Pakistan would be a costly and destabilizing development that can still be avoided, but only if the United States and other foreign donors use their enormous aid leverage to convince Islamabad that it should not only put the 1973 Constitution back into effect, but amend it to go beyond the limited degree of autonomy it envisaged. Eventually, the minorities want a central government that would retain control only over defense, foreign affairs, international trade, communications and currency. It would no longer have the power to oust an elected provincial government, and would have to renegotiate royalties on resources with the provinces.
In the shorter term, the Bush administration should scrap plans to send Special Forces into border areas in pursuit of Al Qaeda, which would only strengthen Islamist links with Pashtun nationalists. It should help secular Pashtun forces to compete with the Islamists by pushing for fair representation of Pashtun areas now barred from political participation.
It is often argued that the United States must stand by Mr. Musharraf and a unitary Pakistani state to safeguard Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. But the nuclear safeguards depend on the Pakistani Army as an institution, not on the president. They would not be affected by a break-up, since the nuclear weapons would remain under the control of the Punjabi rump state and its army.
The Army has built up a far-flung empire of economic enterprises in all parts of Pakistan with assets in the tens of billions, and can best protect its interests by defusing the escalating conflict with the minorities. Similarly, the minorities would profit from cooperative economic relations with the Punjab, and for this reason prefer confederal autonomy to secession. All concerned, including the United States, have a profound stake in stopping the present slide to Balkanization.
Selig S. Harrison is the director of the Asia program at the Center for International Policy and the author of "In Afghanistan's Shadow," a study of Baluch nationalism.
What's it like living in a "Punjabi rump state?"
February 1, 2008
NY Times Op-Ed Contributor
DRAWN and QUARTERED
By SELIG S. HARRISON
Washington
WHATEVER the outcome of the Pakistani elections, now scheduled for Feb. 18, the existing multiethnic Pakistani state is not likely to survive for long unless it is radically restructured.
Given enough American pressure, a loosely united, confederated Pakistan could still be preserved by reinstating and liberalizing the defunct 1973 Constitution, which has been shelved by successive military rulers. But as matters stand, the Punjabi-dominated regime of Pervez Musharraf is headed for a bloody confrontation with the country's Pashtun, Baluch and Sindhi minorities that could well lead to the breakup of Pakistan into three sovereign entities.
In that event, the Pashtuns, concentrated in the northwestern tribal areas, would join with their ethnic brethren across the Afghan border (some 40 million of them combined) to form an independent "Pashtunistan." The Sindhis in the southeast, numbering 23 million, would unite with the six million Baluch tribesmen in the southwest to establish a federation along the Arabian Sea from India to Iran. "Pakistan" would then be a nuclear-armed Punjabi rump state.
In historical context, such a breakup would not be surprising. There had never been a national entity encompassing the areas now constituting Pakistan, an ethnic mélange thrown together hastily by the British for strategic reasons when they partitioned the subcontinent in 1947.
For those of Pashtun, Sindhi and Baluch ethnicity, independence from colonial rule created a bitter paradox. After resisting Punjabi domination for centuries, they found themselves subjected to Punjabi-dominated military regimes that have appropriated many of the natural resources in the minority provinces — particularly the natural gas deposits in the Baluch areas — and siphoned off much of the Indus River's waters as they flow through the Punjab.
The resulting Punjabi-Pashtun animosity helps explain why the United States is failing to get effective Pakistani cooperation in fighting terrorists. The Pashtuns living along the Afghan border are happy to give sanctuary from Punjabi forces to the Taliban, which is composed primarily of fellow Pashtuns, and to its Qaeda friends.
Pashtun civilian casualties resulting from Pakistani and American air strikes on both sides of the border are breeding a potent underground Pashtun nationalist movement. Its initial objective is to unite all Pashtuns in Pakistan, now divided among political jurisdictions, into a unified province. In time, however, its leaders envisage full nationhood. After all, before the British came, the Pashtuns had been politically united under the banner of an Afghan empire that stretched eastward into the Punjabi heartland.
The Baluch people, for their part, have been waging intermittent insurgencies since their forced incorporation into Pakistan in 1947. In the current warfare Pakistani forces are widely reported to be deploying American-supplied aircraft and intelligence equipment that was intended for use in Afghan border areas. Their victims are forging military links with Sindhi nationalist groups that have been galvanized into action by the death of Benazir Bhutto, a Sindhi hero as was her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.
The breakup of Pakistan would be a costly and destabilizing development that can still be avoided, but only if the United States and other foreign donors use their enormous aid leverage to convince Islamabad that it should not only put the 1973 Constitution back into effect, but amend it to go beyond the limited degree of autonomy it envisaged. Eventually, the minorities want a central government that would retain control only over defense, foreign affairs, international trade, communications and currency. It would no longer have the power to oust an elected provincial government, and would have to renegotiate royalties on resources with the provinces.
In the shorter term, the Bush administration should scrap plans to send Special Forces into border areas in pursuit of Al Qaeda, which would only strengthen Islamist links with Pashtun nationalists. It should help secular Pashtun forces to compete with the Islamists by pushing for fair representation of Pashtun areas now barred from political participation.
It is often argued that the United States must stand by Mr. Musharraf and a unitary Pakistani state to safeguard Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. But the nuclear safeguards depend on the Pakistani Army as an institution, not on the president. They would not be affected by a break-up, since the nuclear weapons would remain under the control of the Punjabi rump state and its army.
The Army has built up a far-flung empire of economic enterprises in all parts of Pakistan with assets in the tens of billions, and can best protect its interests by defusing the escalating conflict with the minorities. Similarly, the minorities would profit from cooperative economic relations with the Punjab, and for this reason prefer confederal autonomy to secession. All concerned, including the United States, have a profound stake in stopping the present slide to Balkanization.
Selig S. Harrison is the director of the Asia program at the Center for International Policy and the author of "In Afghanistan's Shadow," a study of Baluch nationalism.
#305 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 5:53:11 pm
Pew Research..That thread is like a DVR'ed train wreck..heck, even the islamist puddy cat zeemax has more credibility that capt clueless...
Musharraf has killed four birds with one stone. 1) He has emerged on the worldwide stage as a good guy, and thus strengthened his own position and rule. 2) He has called the bluff of the extremist and not so extremist religious parties in Pakistan. 3) He has greatly strengthened Pakistan`s stance on Kashmir (even Senator Joseph ``the parrot`` Biden is keeping his mouth shut now). 4) He will getting a big economic deal for Pakistan. Following are some good news:
Musharraf has killed four birds with one stone. 1) He has emerged on the worldwide stage as a good guy, and thus strengthened his own position and rule. 2) He has called the bluff of the extremist and not so extremist religious parties in Pakistan. 3) He has greatly strengthened Pakistan`s stance on Kashmir (even Senator Joseph ``the parrot`` Biden is keeping his mouth shut now). 4) He will getting a big economic deal for Pakistan. Following are some good news:
#304 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 5:48:11 pm
#300 Posted by Urstruly on February 9, 2008 4:35:39 pm
You were fine with the invasion of afghanistan as long as you got a price...
you're like a hooker who got gypped..if the john had given you the full amount, you'd be fine with it...
You were fine with the invasion of afghanistan as long as you got a price...
you're like a hooker who got gypped..if the john had given you the full amount, you'd be fine with it...
#303 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 5:43:04 pm
Here's the whole thread...It's got everything...including the t-shirt with paki flag thing..
At first I thought he was deluded..
then I thought he was just rubbing it into the hindoos about how the pakis were now uncle sam's chosen people..
then I realized he's just clueless...
http://www.chowk.com/interacts/5131/1/0/a
p.s. and urstruly was fine with the invasion of afghanistan as long as pureland got what it wanted with the kashmir cherry on top..
#34 Posted by Urstruly on September 16, 2001 11:23:18 pm
THE COMING DAYS
Pakistan must brace for a wave of ethnic violence and a series of terrorist bombings all across its bazars, railway lines, and densely populated areas. The GOP must anticipate this in advance because CIA and RAW will work in unison to unleash such terror on Pakistani nation. THe Western media will of course be used to spin doctor the whole thing and blame this violence on to Talibans. The purpose of such camapagin would be to change the general public opinion about Talibans in Pakistan. The sympathizers of Talibans in Pakistan will thus also be neutralized.
In this scenario Pakistan has two choices:
1. Expedite the handing over of OBL to a neutral Europeon nation.
If that is not possible
2. Provide US army the camp sites to launch ground operations into Afghanistan. The war of course will take years to end in Afghanistan because Iran, Russia, and China will be more than happy to help Afghans with weapons and supply line because each has some scores to settle. If Russia doesnt do that the Russian mafia definitely will. Afghanistan is definitely a Vietnam in the making.
Meanwhile:
1. Pakistan must raise the case for its 40 F-16s which are already been paid for but US government has hold them for years now, shamelessly and arrogantly.
2. Paksitan should have all its debts paid off by Americans.
3. The issue of plebicite in Indian Oppressed Kashmir must be put on the priority in the United Nations agenda.
At first I thought he was deluded..
then I thought he was just rubbing it into the hindoos about how the pakis were now uncle sam's chosen people..
then I realized he's just clueless...
http://www.chowk.com/interacts/5131/1/0/a
p.s. and urstruly was fine with the invasion of afghanistan as long as pureland got what it wanted with the kashmir cherry on top..
#34 Posted by Urstruly on September 16, 2001 11:23:18 pm
THE COMING DAYS
Pakistan must brace for a wave of ethnic violence and a series of terrorist bombings all across its bazars, railway lines, and densely populated areas. The GOP must anticipate this in advance because CIA and RAW will work in unison to unleash such terror on Pakistani nation. THe Western media will of course be used to spin doctor the whole thing and blame this violence on to Talibans. The purpose of such camapagin would be to change the general public opinion about Talibans in Pakistan. The sympathizers of Talibans in Pakistan will thus also be neutralized.
In this scenario Pakistan has two choices:
1. Expedite the handing over of OBL to a neutral Europeon nation.
If that is not possible
2. Provide US army the camp sites to launch ground operations into Afghanistan. The war of course will take years to end in Afghanistan because Iran, Russia, and China will be more than happy to help Afghans with weapons and supply line because each has some scores to settle. If Russia doesnt do that the Russian mafia definitely will. Afghanistan is definitely a Vietnam in the making.
Meanwhile:
1. Pakistan must raise the case for its 40 F-16s which are already been paid for but US government has hold them for years now, shamelessly and arrogantly.
2. Paksitan should have all its debts paid off by Americans.
3. The issue of plebicite in Indian Oppressed Kashmir must be put on the priority in the United Nations agenda.
#302 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 5:38:32 pm
Pew Research...You can google up the complete post of the complete thread..
Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad on September 17, 2001
I do know the PAF is on alert. I think the US C-141s are going to start rolling in soon. I have a feeling the Pakistani pilots and army will assist and guide the US into Afghanistan, if it decides to carry out an invasion (even though the Pakistani govt. won`t admit it openly). There is no way the US soldiers can carry it out on their own.
Man, this is getting interesting. Information Technology suc/ */s as a profession. No glory. I wanna go back and put on the uniform.
Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad on September 17, 2001
I do know the PAF is on alert. I think the US C-141s are going to start rolling in soon. I have a feeling the Pakistani pilots and army will assist and guide the US into Afghanistan, if it decides to carry out an invasion (even though the Pakistani govt. won`t admit it openly). There is no way the US soldiers can carry it out on their own.
Man, this is getting interesting. Information Technology suc/ */s as a profession. No glory. I wanna go back and put on the uniform.
#301 Posted by chaltahai on February 9, 2008 4:53:06 pm
Yaar urstruly, you had me at pacifist. You a murtid or sommat?
#300 Posted by Urstruly on February 9, 2008 4:35:39 pm
The lesson that we learn from the past 200 posts is that, I can set everybody's tails on fire who pose as holier than thou p of S on this website. This I can accomplish without even remotly mentioning anything related to "R" word. So imagine what can I accomplish if one day one of my screw gets lose and I stat talking about your "Rs". That goes for all murtid p of Ss as well.
But this is not about me because:
1. I am a pacifist.
2. I do not live in US and left it many many years ago.
3. I do not hate US but only their elite who have turned rest of Americans into monkeys. And they committ horrible crimes against humanity day in and day out.
4. I do not hate hindutva-vadis, I just pitty them. Don't ask me why because I do not want another 200 posts from kicking, screaming, pulling-their-hair numbskulls.
5. I hate violence and want it to stop. Violence can only stop if dadageeree stops. I just read aloud what is written on the wall. I see nothing but guilotines, hunger, and disease. Its not me, its happening right in front of you. I just read it.
6. A friendly advice to Romair: While in India, sleep with both eyes open. You don't want to wake up one day in your hotel room, missing a kidney (or both).
But this is not about me because:
1. I am a pacifist.
2. I do not live in US and left it many many years ago.
3. I do not hate US but only their elite who have turned rest of Americans into monkeys. And they committ horrible crimes against humanity day in and day out.
4. I do not hate hindutva-vadis, I just pitty them. Don't ask me why because I do not want another 200 posts from kicking, screaming, pulling-their-hair numbskulls.
5. I hate violence and want it to stop. Violence can only stop if dadageeree stops. I just read aloud what is written on the wall. I see nothing but guilotines, hunger, and disease. Its not me, its happening right in front of you. I just read it.
6. A friendly advice to Romair: While in India, sleep with both eyes open. You don't want to wake up one day in your hotel room, missing a kidney (or both).
#299 Posted by Urstruly on February 9, 2008 4:34:18 pm
The lesson that we learn from the past 200 posts is that, I can set everybody's tails on fire who pose as holier than thou p of S on this website. This I can accomplish without even remotly mentioning anything related to "R" word. So imagine what can I accomplish if one day one of my screw gets lose and I stat talking about your "Rs". That goes for all murtid p of Ss as well.
But this is not about me because:
1. I am a pacifist.
2. I do not live in US and left it many many years ago.
3. I do not hate US but only their elite who have turned rest of Americans into monkeys. And they committ horrible crimes against humanity day in and day out.
4. I do not hate hindutva-vadis, I just pitty them. Don't ask me why because I do not want another 200 posts from kicking, screaming, pulling-their-hair numbskulls.
5. I hate violence and want it to stop. Violence can only stop if dadageeree stops. I just read aloud what is written on the wall. I see nothing but guilotines, hunger, and disease. Its not me, its happening right in front of you. I just read it.
#298 Posted by Pew_Research on February 9, 2008 3:25:37 pm
Re: # 295
Arjun:
Don't forget that Bulleya's 'good looks' are critical to the success of his new Indian venture! It will be very timely if you could pull up his post where he was 'completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...' :)
Arjun:
Don't forget that Bulleya's 'good looks' are critical to the success of his new Indian venture! It will be very timely if you could pull up his post where he was 'completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...' :)
#297 Posted by Pew_Research on February 9, 2008 3:20:36 pm
Re: # 295
Arjun:
Don't forget that Bulleya's 'good looks' are critical to the success of his new Indian venture! It will be very timely if you could pull up his post where he was 'completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...' :)
Arjun:
Don't forget that Bulleya's 'good looks' are critical to the success of his new Indian venture! It will be very timely if you could pull up his post where he was 'completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...' :)
#296 Posted by sattar2 on February 9, 2008 8:44:05 am
viqram (#235),
Slow down … and take a deep breath.
My view is that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never said that prophethood has ended with him. Rather, he foretold appearance of a prophet among Muslims who will appear in the spirit of Jesus, and called him Issa-ibne-Marriam. Mainstream Muslims await Issa from 2000 years ago to appear in flesh and blood … but Ahamdi-Muslims interpret it as a metaphor. Furthermore, neither does Quran mention end of prophethood; rather it maintains the possibility of prophets appearing as Allah pleases.
Now, this debate may go on and on. Mainstream Muslims may believe what they want … but persecuting Ahmadi-Muslims is where they go overboard … a point that remains lost on the ummah.
Re#240,
Ahmadi viewpoint is that the conditions for fighting jihad, as prescribed in Quran, did not exist … therefore jihad against the British had no Quranic basis. Conflicts arise from time to time and should be handled with patience and civility. There are ways of dealing with the issue of “cartridges with pig fat” without necessarily going to war!!!
For example, Ahamdi-Muslims have chosen to get beaten up, go to prison, and suffer persecution … with patience and without resorting to violence. I think this is in line with Quranic teachings. Your view may differ; what can I say?
Ahamdi-Muslims accepted Mirza Shaib as their leader unquestioned leader (to use your terminology) … so they chose not to engage in jihad against the British. If others want to pick up arms and go to war, that’s their choice.
If Mirza Sahib’s loyalty is an issue, so are the loyalties of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Jesus Christ (pbuh). Let’s use the same yard stick here …
#295 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 6:48:09 am
captain clueless told us he's part kashmiri...he supports the jihad in kashmir....
and yet he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to fight the jihad himself...
not only that, he is undermining the cause by lending his management talents to indian IT companies(because, as he tells us, indian IT companies aren't going anywhere without paki management talent)...
also, let's not forget that capt clueless was completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...
This genius also told us that the dubya and the US government would be prostrating before the pakis...and how he was eager to give up his "IT job", wear the uniform and join the invasion of afghanistan..(urstruly, I'll show you how to use google to look that up in 5 seconds)...
and yet he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to fight the jihad himself...
not only that, he is undermining the cause by lending his management talents to indian IT companies(because, as he tells us, indian IT companies aren't going anywhere without paki management talent)...
also, let's not forget that capt clueless was completely gung-ho about the afghan war during the t-shirt with paki flag delusion days...
This genius also told us that the dubya and the US government would be prostrating before the pakis...and how he was eager to give up his "IT job", wear the uniform and join the invasion of afghanistan..(urstruly, I'll show you how to use google to look that up in 5 seconds)...
#294 Posted by arjun_5 on February 9, 2008 6:27:28 am
the pindi blast is already old news..
Blast at Pakistan election rally kills 14 ISLAMABAD, Feb 9 (Reuters) A suspected suicide bomber killed 14 people and wounded 24 at the election rally of Awami National Party(ANP) in Charsadda town in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province Saturday, Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said. “We've been told 14 people were killed and 24 wounded. Apparently, it was a suicide attack,” Cheema said. ANP leader Afrasiab Khattak, who was addressing the rally, told Dawn TV he was safe. Private TV channels quoting ANP sources, said upto 21 persons were killed and about 40 injured.(First Posted @ 18:04 PST Updated @ 18:58 PST)
Blast at Pakistan election rally kills 14 ISLAMABAD, Feb 9 (Reuters) A suspected suicide bomber killed 14 people and wounded 24 at the election rally of Awami National Party(ANP) in Charsadda town in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province Saturday, Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said. “We've been told 14 people were killed and 24 wounded. Apparently, it was a suicide attack,” Cheema said. ANP leader Afrasiab Khattak, who was addressing the rally, told Dawn TV he was safe. Private TV channels quoting ANP sources, said upto 21 persons were killed and about 40 injured.(First Posted @ 18:04 PST Updated @ 18:58 PST)
#293 Posted by shankar on February 9, 2008 6:21:45 am
Romair,
C'man yaar. Hamid's forte is his inimitable cynical wit.He "ridicules" everybody, including himself. He also readily reverses himself.
OTOH, Urstruly comes across as a bitter, venomous person, disillusioned with everyone's morality, except those who agree with his brand of Islam.
Its not the fact that he is a holier-than-thou bigot which bothers me--that type is represented by all religions on Chowk.
To the best of my knowlege, he is single, an engineer, who is disillusioned by the land that feeds him, disillusioned by muslims who support the west, looks upon non-muslims as morally defunct, acts like a victim and espouses violent revolution.
One can find a number of reasons why hamid should live in the US. Heck, he fits right in!
Can you tell me one logical reason why a profile like Urstruly would want to live in the US?
C'man yaar. Hamid's forte is his inimitable cynical wit.He "ridicules" everybody, including himself. He also readily reverses himself.
OTOH, Urstruly comes across as a bitter, venomous person, disillusioned with everyone's morality, except those who agree with his brand of Islam.
Its not the fact that he is a holier-than-thou bigot which bothers me--that type is represented by all religions on Chowk.
To the best of my knowlege, he is single, an engineer, who is disillusioned by the land that feeds him, disillusioned by muslims who support the west, looks upon non-muslims as morally defunct, acts like a victim and espouses violent revolution.
One can find a number of reasons why hamid should live in the US. Heck, he fits right in!
Can you tell me one logical reason why a profile like Urstruly would want to live in the US?
#291 Posted by laddu on February 9, 2008 3:16:14 am
Breaking News is that a video of Abdul Aziz in burqa sodo mizing a young 12 year old boy from his madarassa has been prepared for release by the Paki Army.
#290 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 2:56:55 am
zeemax,
.......... a better move would have been to implant a homing device in his rectum and let him 'escape' (which is a common thing in paki jails) ....... then, as soon as he crossed over into waziristan to meet up with his sheep loving buddies - boom! ........ fire from hell
#289 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 2:49:33 am
Re: # 287
zeemax,
.... like i said on the other board, i agree with you on this one .... the poor people of pakistan will pay the price later
zeemax,
.... like i said on the other board, i agree with you on this one .... the poor people of pakistan will pay the price later
#288 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2008 2:45:44 am
... and when the time comes, they're sure to exterminate each and every single one of your 'murtid' breeders, whether in their teens or out of it!
#287 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2008 2:44:05 am
#285 Posted by hamidm2,
Haha ... Abdul Aziz negotiated the ceasefire while sitting in jail.
You're an ignorant creep. The Pakistani state stands soundly defeated.
Haha ... Abdul Aziz negotiated the ceasefire while sitting in jail.
You're an ignorant creep. The Pakistani state stands soundly defeated.
#286 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 2:37:56 am
Re: # 284
romair,
.... are you calling shankar a nutcase? ..... you know that he is a shrink ?
...... as for me, i agree that i am not willing to fight for my cause, but i willingly pay my taxes without complaining ....... as a matter of fact i would support a 10 cent a gallon surcharge on gasoline for an anti-jihad fund ....... and i don't want to abandon islam, i want to reform it and will join tahmed's sect as soon as he declares his prophethood ......
romair,
.... are you calling shankar a nutcase? ..... you know that he is a shrink ?
...... as for me, i agree that i am not willing to fight for my cause, but i willingly pay my taxes without complaining ....... as a matter of fact i would support a 10 cent a gallon surcharge on gasoline for an anti-jihad fund ....... and i don't want to abandon islam, i want to reform it and will join tahmed's sect as soon as he declares his prophethood ......
#285 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 2:30:06 am
Re: # 280
zeemax,
... i don't care why - you cannot and must not negotiate with these barbarians .... period .... they will come back to kill you and your babies ........ that is why we should have exterminated every single one of them in lal masjid when we had the chance - specially the breeders ....... it was a mistake then and it is a mistake now .......
zeemax,
... i don't care why - you cannot and must not negotiate with these barbarians .... period .... they will come back to kill you and your babies ........ that is why we should have exterminated every single one of them in lal masjid when we had the chance - specially the breeders ....... it was a mistake then and it is a mistake now .......
#284 Posted by bulleya on February 9, 2008 2:29:49 am
shankar #: there are two individuals on this site, who are the most vocal about pakistan, as well as about violence, yet do not live there........
one is urstruly and the other is hamidm mian.........
.....both are amongst the most pro-war and pro-violence individuals on this site.......though hamidm mian is far more than urstruly......both are fanatically ideological about their views.......and both are hypocrites (if not of the highest order, then at least the second highest order).......
urstruly lives in usa, but hates it.......yet still does not leave......he wants it destroyed......hamidm mian is a muslim, yet constantly wants muslims bombed.......he ridicules islam all day, yet does not have the courage to leave the religion........
urstruly wants jihad all over the world, yet will never participated in one himself........hamidm mian wants the usa fighting muslims everywhere in the world, yet will never join the military, nor will allow any of his kids to do so......
so, what can we deduce from the above.......i have though long and hard about it, and the only conclusion i can reach is that its the state they live in.......if i am not mistaken, they both live in michigan......apparently, the state seeems filled with nutcases........
though i am starting to think that they are both the same person.......it's like that richard gere movie, where a young boy convinces the court he has dual personalities......its either hamidm mian posing as urstruly or vice-versa.......they have too much in commmon......
p.s. having said that, i think hamidm mian and urstruly's behavior is, in a round about manner, a hope for pakistan......they have both selected economic progress over ideology......so while they may preach an ideology the whole day, their personal actions indicate that they know where their bread is buttered......
one is urstruly and the other is hamidm mian.........
.....both are amongst the most pro-war and pro-violence individuals on this site.......though hamidm mian is far more than urstruly......both are fanatically ideological about their views.......and both are hypocrites (if not of the highest order, then at least the second highest order).......
urstruly lives in usa, but hates it.......yet still does not leave......he wants it destroyed......hamidm mian is a muslim, yet constantly wants muslims bombed.......he ridicules islam all day, yet does not have the courage to leave the religion........
urstruly wants jihad all over the world, yet will never participated in one himself........hamidm mian wants the usa fighting muslims everywhere in the world, yet will never join the military, nor will allow any of his kids to do so......
so, what can we deduce from the above.......i have though long and hard about it, and the only conclusion i can reach is that its the state they live in.......if i am not mistaken, they both live in michigan......apparently, the state seeems filled with nutcases........
though i am starting to think that they are both the same person.......it's like that richard gere movie, where a young boy convinces the court he has dual personalities......its either hamidm mian posing as urstruly or vice-versa.......they have too much in commmon......
p.s. having said that, i think hamidm mian and urstruly's behavior is, in a round about manner, a hope for pakistan......they have both selected economic progress over ideology......so while they may preach an ideology the whole day, their personal actions indicate that they know where their bread is buttered......
#283 Posted by jayp on February 9, 2008 2:25:05 am
Cry for the pak army,
One suicide bombing of military personnel and the pak army is in surrender talks with the tribals. The tribals have declared cease fire and the pak army alsi will comply. This is really pathetic, the tribals are setting the ground rules and the army is following.
The pathetic kayani should resign. Then again, why should he, the next also will be the same, came out of teh same military academies where surrender ceremony is the most practiced drill.
One suicide bombing of military personnel and the pak army is in surrender talks with the tribals. The tribals have declared cease fire and the pak army alsi will comply. This is really pathetic, the tribals are setting the ground rules and the army is following.
The pathetic kayani should resign. Then again, why should he, the next also will be the same, came out of teh same military academies where surrender ceremony is the most practiced drill.
#282 Posted by jayp on February 9, 2008 2:19:34 am
hamidm
already many pakistanis believe that the waziristan jihadis are supported by the indians , especially from their five consulates around afghanistan.
Then of course, YLH will vouch that gandhi created taliban.
We are all in support of taliban taking over pakistan. Then pakistan will be denuked, iraquised and then it will be sonar pakistan, a little like sonar bangladesh of today
already many pakistanis believe that the waziristan jihadis are supported by the indians , especially from their five consulates around afghanistan.
Then of course, YLH will vouch that gandhi created taliban.
We are all in support of taliban taking over pakistan. Then pakistan will be denuked, iraquised and then it will be sonar pakistan, a little like sonar bangladesh of today
#281 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2008 2:14:05 am
#278 Posted by jayp,
We're not code coolies. You are. Be happy for yourself.
We're not code coolies. You are. Be happy for yourself.
#280 Posted by zeemax on February 9, 2008 2:09:42 am
#279 Posted by hamidm2,
Well news for you ... Maulana Abdul Aziz (remember?) has been moved from Adyala Jail to a nice State Guest House overlooking Rawal Lake, in the interim for unconditional release. Get it?
Now tell me why and I will give you a prize!
Well news for you ... Maulana Abdul Aziz (remember?) has been moved from Adyala Jail to a nice State Guest House overlooking Rawal Lake, in the interim for unconditional release. Get it?
Now tell me why and I will give you a prize!
#279 Posted by hamidm2 on February 9, 2008 1:58:34 am
... it seems the al-qaeda mutual admiration society on chowk has been whittled down to two members - urstruly and zeemax ......... if you horrible hindoos keep it up we won't have anyone left to beat up on except poor captain clueless and the aspiring prophet tahmed (ra) ........ life won't be fun ... so you heeng-eaters better back off
#278 Posted by jayp on February 9, 2008 1:45:37 am
zeemax,
no body denies the talent of the pakistanis. When mushy tells that benzir is responsible for her own death, when mushy declares that the govt has nothing to do with the largest bank robery in pakistan and the bank is responsible, well the man is talented in convincing the pakistanis.
Then take the case of the recent suicide bombings, again using the motor bike so devastatingly shows the talent in bomb making. How about the news item I posted, some suicide bomber gets a lift in a car and asks the driver to look for target, that is really original of the urstruly type.
The issue is teh purpose where the talent is used.
Churning out a million or so jihadis a year is a great pedagogical talent, only if it could be used to produce code cutters.
no body denies the talent of the pakistanis. When mushy tells that benzir is responsible for her own death, when mushy declares that the govt has nothing to do with the largest bank robery in pakistan and the bank is responsible, well the man is talented in convincing the pakistanis.
Then take the case of the recent suicide bombings, again using the motor bike so devastatingly shows the talent in bomb making. How about the news item I posted, some suicide bomber gets a lift in a car and asks the driver to look for target, that is really original of the urstruly type.
The issue is teh purpose where the talent is used.
Churning out a million or so jihadis a year is a great pedagogical talent, only if it could be used to produce code cutters.
#277 Posted by harimau on February 8, 2008 5:52:40 pm
Ref shankar #275
[Why would somebody live in the US & viscerally hate it & refuse to leave it? Its not money, the middle east pays engineers very well. Theres got to be a reason...unless someone can give me another logical reason.....]
Kiddie porn!
[Why would somebody live in the US & viscerally hate it & refuse to leave it? Its not money, the middle east pays engineers very well. Theres got to be a reason...unless someone can give me another logical reason.....]
Kiddie porn!
#276 Posted by bubba on February 8, 2008 4:42:04 pm
Re: # 264 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2008 8:58:03 am
[.... does that explain my madness?] No, it just explains your frustration.
[...start behaving like normal people instead of acting like a bunch of crazies..]
And most of them are better than normal people. They are loving and caring and sharing. Muslim societies are not sterilized like wetern countries, are they?
Have you ever thought that maybe the ruling elite have been playing a dubious game with the "normal people" of the world, to get the maximum political mileage (read $$$) from the west, to keep their population downtrodden and ignorant.
[.. they embarass me ... so do the sikhs with their silly turbans and unruly facial hair ..... i just can't win for loosing ! ] why should anybody else embarass you? Are you their spokesman?
How can you claim to be a person of the west whose most cherished possession is freedom and liberty, yet, you yourself can't break away from the tyranny of communal thinking? Do you not see a disharmony in your own behavior?
BTW, khocha, all you posts are just hilarious, and I enjoy coming to the chowk just to read your posts.
[.... does that explain my madness?] No, it just explains your frustration.
[...start behaving like normal people instead of acting like a bunch of crazies..]
And most of them are better than normal people. They are loving and caring and sharing. Muslim societies are not sterilized like wetern countries, are they?
Have you ever thought that maybe the ruling elite have been playing a dubious game with the "normal people" of the world, to get the maximum political mileage (read $$$) from the west, to keep their population downtrodden and ignorant.
[.. they embarass me ... so do the sikhs with their silly turbans and unruly facial hair ..... i just can't win for loosing ! ] why should anybody else embarass you? Are you their spokesman?
How can you claim to be a person of the west whose most cherished possession is freedom and liberty, yet, you yourself can't break away from the tyranny of communal thinking? Do you not see a disharmony in your own behavior?
BTW, khocha, all you posts are just hilarious, and I enjoy coming to the chowk just to read your posts.
#275 Posted by shankar on February 8, 2008 4:41:36 pm
This article is about muslims massacring muslims.
Here is Urstruly telling the victims...you signed up for it, you got your blood money, quit whining....
Then the bugger has the audacity of sermonising Qaidianis & hindus!
Why would somebody live in the US & viscerally hate it & refuse to leave it? Its not money, the middle east pays engineers very well. Theres got to be a reason...unless someone can give me another logical reason, Urstruly is an Al-Qeeda mole living in our midst.
Here is Urstruly telling the victims...you signed up for it, you got your blood money, quit whining....
Then the bugger has the audacity of sermonising Qaidianis & hindus!
Why would somebody live in the US & viscerally hate it & refuse to leave it? Its not money, the middle east pays engineers very well. Theres got to be a reason...unless someone can give me another logical reason, Urstruly is an Al-Qeeda mole living in our midst.
#274 Posted by mohar11 on February 8, 2008 11:54:09 am
Re: # 273
when you call someone "tree-toad" - it can't be anything positive, now can it? :)... so we kind of know what urestruly meant when he calls hinuds as immoral tree-toads, he even wrote a peotry on that...
A poetry on hate, now that's something... :)
when you call someone "tree-toad" - it can't be anything positive, now can it? :)... so we kind of know what urestruly meant when he calls hinuds as immoral tree-toads, he even wrote a peotry on that...
A poetry on hate, now that's something... :)
#273 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 10:02:41 am
#271 Posted by mohar11,
Well ... err .. yes I agree. But re the tree toad morality, only Urstruly can answer that because I don't know what he exactly means! He hasn't explained that so let's not gang up on him .... right? :)
Well ... err .. yes I agree. But re the tree toad morality, only Urstruly can answer that because I don't know what he exactly means! He hasn't explained that so let's not gang up on him .... right? :)
#272 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 10:00:05 am
#270 Posted by Dash_Dot,
If you don't, ask and I will send you a nice silk one ... but an Amritsari one, not that banya type lungi ...
If you don't, ask and I will send you a nice silk one ... but an Amritsari one, not that banya type lungi ...
#271 Posted by mohar11 on February 8, 2008 9:54:27 am
Re: # 269 zee
All I am saying is - this outbreak of "holier-than-thou" sermons from you islamics/pakis every once a while a little too jarring for normal folks...
I mean - come on, last people on earth who should be drawing judgements on other people's "morality" is you pakis and muslims... you have killed and continue to kill and brutalize and cannibalize so many your own that no other group of people even come close to it...
so what's this chest-beating is all about?... What exactly hinuds and other "immoral" people have done to you pakis anyway?... In fact, at this time, hinuds are the only ones who still treat you pakis well while everybody else in the world kicks you in nuts... which you deserve...
So let's not go overboard here with hatred of the hanoods... :)
All I am saying is - this outbreak of "holier-than-thou" sermons from you islamics/pakis every once a while a little too jarring for normal folks...
I mean - come on, last people on earth who should be drawing judgements on other people's "morality" is you pakis and muslims... you have killed and continue to kill and brutalize and cannibalize so many your own that no other group of people even come close to it...
so what's this chest-beating is all about?... What exactly hinuds and other "immoral" people have done to you pakis anyway?... In fact, at this time, hinuds are the only ones who still treat you pakis well while everybody else in the world kicks you in nuts... which you deserve...
So let's not go overboard here with hatred of the hanoods... :)
#269 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 9:24:56 am
#267 Posted by mohar11,
Yeah bring on the copy/paste monkeys ... let Mrs Vahidy have some fun :)
Yeah bring on the copy/paste monkeys ... let Mrs Vahidy have some fun :)
#268 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 9:22:36 am
#266 Posted by Dash_Dot,
If you had about 1% of Urstruly's intellect, you would be twins.
So stop jumping in your dhoti. Your bhindidick might fall off.
If you had about 1% of Urstruly's intellect, you would be twins.
So stop jumping in your dhoti. Your bhindidick might fall off.
#267 Posted by mohar11 on February 8, 2008 9:21:30 am
Re: # 265 zee
stop joking about hinuds, they will jump on your a33es - haven't you learnt anything in your years in chowk?... :)
Besides, you muslim jump and squeal when other people make jokes on you, draw a cartoon or something... so you should know about this... right?
stop joking about hinuds, they will jump on your a33es - haven't you learnt anything in your years in chowk?... :)
Besides, you muslim jump and squeal when other people make jokes on you, draw a cartoon or something... so you should know about this... right?
#266 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 9:14:38 am
Re: # 265 zeemax wrong on two counts.....
1. urstruly was not joking - he was deadly serious - so stop covering your tracks and urstruly's...you are making yourself more of an ass than you ought to
2. I did not jump on him.....maybe you like to....me I do not...not unless urstruly happens to be a seriously good looking chick
3. Hindu who is are you referring to? if it is me...wrong...
oh! that should be three counts...
One thing you should learn...when you are caught with your pants down ...learn to accept it gracefully, in this instance there is nothing wrong in saying you did not know ;) after all you are not an integrated person but someone who lives in the west but for all practical purposes have nothing to do with it....
1. urstruly was not joking - he was deadly serious - so stop covering your tracks and urstruly's...you are making yourself more of an ass than you ought to
2. I did not jump on him.....maybe you like to....me I do not...not unless urstruly happens to be a seriously good looking chick
3. Hindu who is are you referring to? if it is me...wrong...
oh! that should be three counts...
One thing you should learn...when you are caught with your pants down ...learn to accept it gracefully, in this instance there is nothing wrong in saying you did not know ;) after all you are not an integrated person but someone who lives in the west but for all practical purposes have nothing to do with it....
#265 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 9:04:41 am
#263 Posted by GT,
Yeah he was joking of-course. But look how the hindu jumped on him? As if Urstruly would plagiarize ... small minds have small thoughts!
Yeah he was joking of-course. But look how the hindu jumped on him? As if Urstruly would plagiarize ... small minds have small thoughts!
#264 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2008 8:58:03 am
Re: # 262
bubba,
... sorry, i dind't mean to ignore you .... unfortunately, i am a half-pathan and the other half is more than likely sikh ...... does that explain my madness ?
..... and i ask my fellow muslims questions because i want them to wake up, smell the kava, and start behaving like normal people instead of acting like a bunch of crazies .... they embarass me ... so do the sikhs with their silly turbans and unruly facial hair ..... i just can't win for loosing !
bubba,
... sorry, i dind't mean to ignore you .... unfortunately, i am a half-pathan and the other half is more than likely sikh ...... does that explain my madness ?
..... and i ask my fellow muslims questions because i want them to wake up, smell the kava, and start behaving like normal people instead of acting like a bunch of crazies .... they embarass me ... so do the sikhs with their silly turbans and unruly facial hair ..... i just can't win for loosing !
#263 Posted by GT on February 8, 2008 8:34:07 am
#261 Posted by zeemax:
Zeemax:
"Hmm ... yes I thought Urstruly had written it. Obviously I must have misunderstood his post."
No you did not misunderstand. Urstruly writes:
"I have written this tender sonnet to ...."
I knew that it was not written by Urstruly, and that he was joking, because the verses did not have the words "Hindu" and "Mirazi" in them :)
Zeemax:
"Hmm ... yes I thought Urstruly had written it. Obviously I must have misunderstood his post."
No you did not misunderstand. Urstruly writes:
"I have written this tender sonnet to ...."
I knew that it was not written by Urstruly, and that he was joking, because the verses did not have the words "Hindu" and "Mirazi" in them :)
#262 Posted by bubba on February 8, 2008 8:20:11 am
Re: # 254
Hamid mian,
Since you consistently ignore my posts (when I asked you "are you a pathaan?"), I feel at liberty to ask you one more question.
Is it fair for you to continuosly ask a believer questions that need answers based on intellect? How can you reconcile such diparity?
Hamid mian,
Since you consistently ignore my posts (when I asked you "are you a pathaan?"), I feel at liberty to ask you one more question.
Is it fair for you to continuosly ask a believer questions that need answers based on intellect? How can you reconcile such diparity?
#261 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 6:37:08 am
#256 Posted by Dash_Dot,
Hmm ... yes I thought Urstruly had written it. Obviously I must have misunderstood his post.
But nothing detracts from his writing ability. Just read his short stories on FP.
Hmm ... yes I thought Urstruly had written it. Obviously I must have misunderstood his post.
But nothing detracts from his writing ability. Just read his short stories on FP.
#260 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 6:34:19 am
Re: # 249 that is all right shankar!
But care to comment on the irregularities of the Rural Emplyment scheme where people have been syphoning money like no bodies business ..and suddenly whole populations have been created on paper?
But care to comment on the irregularities of the Rural Emplyment scheme where people have been syphoning money like no bodies business ..and suddenly whole populations have been created on paper?
#259 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 6:28:45 am
zeemax here is one which is rather apt for you and urstruly
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts
With stoutest wrists and loudest boasts
He thrusts his fists against the posts
And still insists he sees the ghosts.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts
With stoutest wrists and loudest boasts
He thrusts his fists against the posts
And still insists he sees the ghosts.
#258 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 6:24:24 am
or here http://www.doodledown.com/toad.htm
zeemax.....
or here
http://www.barkingspiderspoetry.com/tonguetwisters.html
or go the following MIT website
http://web.mit.edu/course/10/10.27/www/1027CourseManual/1027CourseMan ual-AppV.html
to see how it is used....
man, zeemax you need to integrate more....
zeemax.....
or here
http://www.barkingspiderspoetry.com/tonguetwisters.html
or go the following MIT website
http://web.mit.edu/course/10/10.27/www/1027CourseManual/1027CourseMan ual-AppV.html
to see how it is used....
man, zeemax you need to integrate more....
#257 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 6:22:33 am
or go here
http://www.repeatafterus.com/title.php?i=8165&PHPSESSID=7cb7190d48la adb6ab854
zeemax - tut tut old PAL of Urstruly!!!!! he has badly let you down.....
http://www.repeatafterus.com/title.php?i=8165&PHPSESSID=7cb7190d48la adb6ab854
zeemax - tut tut old PAL of Urstruly!!!!! he has badly let you down.....
#256 Posted by Dash_Dot on February 8, 2008 6:21:45 am
Re: # 253
Not so fast zeemax
zeemax, that by urstruly is a good tongue twister (like I am sure he is, maybe you could tell us about it). But I would suggest that you visit http://www.indianchild.com/Tongue_Twister_Games.htm
before making claims about URSTRULY's originality
Bloodu hell that toad copied and pasted a very well known tongue twister. Only a dumb-koff like you will not recognise it as one!!!!!
Not so fast zeemax
zeemax, that by urstruly is a good tongue twister (like I am sure he is, maybe you could tell us about it). But I would suggest that you visit http://www.indianchild.com/Tongue_Twister_Games.htm
before making claims about URSTRULY's originality
Bloodu hell that toad copied and pasted a very well known tongue twister. Only a dumb-koff like you will not recognise it as one!!!!!
#255 Posted by arjun_5 on February 8, 2008 6:13:37 am
#253 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 4:55:35 am
So, STFU!
or else??
So, STFU!
or else??
#254 Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2008 4:57:43 am
urstruly,
.... you are no dr seuss ..... that was the stupidest thing i ever read and only your chilgoza gallery appreciated it .... it didn't make any sense ..... read green eggs and ham
..... by the way, it is friday and my offer still stands ..... drinks on me; just bring your food stamps for the cheese (unless you have some usda stuff left over)........
#253 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 4:55:35 am
#249 Posted by shankar,
Mr. Shankar, you say :"THIS is what they have to show"
Exactly. While all you guys have to show is copy/pastes of Paki, Paki, Paki, and Terrorist, Terrorist, Terrorist amongst other inane stuff, our people display talent as in #251.
So, STFU!
Mr. Shankar, you say :"THIS is what they have to show"
Exactly. While all you guys have to show is copy/pastes of Paki, Paki, Paki, and Terrorist, Terrorist, Terrorist amongst other inane stuff, our people display talent as in #251.
So, STFU!
#252 Posted by zeemax on February 8, 2008 4:49:43 am
#251 Posted by Urstruly,
Haha ... loved the punchline:
With her three-toed power,
The she-toad vetoed him.
Now I'm even more impressed with your poetic skills than I've always been with your literary ones ... !
Haha ... loved the punchline:
With her three-toed power,
The she-toad vetoed him.
Now I'm even more impressed with your poetic skills than I've always been with your literary ones ... !
#251 Posted by Urstruly on February 8, 2008 4:45:13 am
Re: # 250 zeemax
I have written this tender sonnet to assuage the hurt feelings of tree toads. I hope they will forgive me for my indiscretion:
A tree-toad loved a she-toad
Who lived up in a tree.
He was a two-toed tree-toad,
But a three-toed toad was she.
The two-toed tree-toad tried to win
The three-toed she-toad's heart,
For the two-toed tree-toad loved the ground
That the three-toed tree-toad trod.
But the two-toed tree-toad tried in vain;
He couldn't please her whim.
From her tree-toad bower,
With her three-toed power,
The she-toad vetoed him.
I have written this tender sonnet to assuage the hurt feelings of tree toads. I hope they will forgive me for my indiscretion:
A tree-toad loved a she-toad
Who lived up in a tree.
He was a two-toed tree-toad,
But a three-toed toad was she.
The two-toed tree-toad tried to win
The three-toed she-toad's heart,
For the two-toed tree-toad loved the ground
That the three-toed tree-toad trod.
But the two-toed tree-toad tried in vain;
He couldn't please her whim.
From her tree-toad bower,
With her three-toed power,
The she-toad vetoed him.
#249 Posted by shankar on February 8, 2008 3:56:19 am
(most of them do have moral values but those are no better
than the moral values of a tree toad.)
Pakistanis are 90%+ Muslim...
lemme see, by that logic ,Pakistan should be one of the most morally chaste & enlightened country in the world.
Compared to us idol worshipers, have their actions been more moral than ours?
They rank lower in the corruption index than Indians, they have killed more muslims than Indians have, their crime rates are worse than ours, their leaders have looted their country.
During the 60 yrs of independence they have committed a genocide, fought 2 civil wars, cant agree on a constitution, their military has killed more Pakistanis than Indians have..I can go on & on..
They shout about Islam from the rooftops, wear their religion on their sleeves, pray to Allah 5 times a day...& THIS is what they have to show for their piety?!
The icing on the cake is that we are "judged" by a SOB who lives in the US & curses it everyday, but refuses to leave it. Talk about being a besharam! Why should an engineer live in the US & viscerally hate it? The only reason I can come up with is that he is part of an Al Qeeda cell, waiting for orders to strike..
Actions speak louder than words. I'd rather have the morals of a tree toad, than be a human being like that...I'm just glad that I don't have to share an eternity of after life with people like this...
than the moral values of a tree toad.)
Pakistanis are 90%+ Muslim...
lemme see, by that logic ,Pakistan should be one of the most morally chaste & enlightened country in the world.
Compared to us idol worshipers, have their actions been more moral than ours?
They rank lower in the corruption index than Indians, they have killed more muslims than Indians have, their crime rates are worse than ours, their leaders have looted their country.
During the 60 yrs of independence they have committed a genocide, fought 2 civil wars, cant agree on a constitution, their military has killed more Pakistanis than Indians have..I can go on & on..
They shout about Islam from the rooftops, wear their religion on their sleeves, pray to Allah 5 times a day...& THIS is what they have to show for their piety?!
The icing on the cake is that we are "judged" by a SOB who lives in the US & curses it everyday, but refuses to leave it. Talk about being a besharam! Why should an engineer live in the US & viscerally hate it? The only reason I can come up with is that he is part of an Al Qeeda cell, waiting for orders to strike..
Actions speak louder than words. I'd rather have the morals of a tree toad, than be a human being like that...I'm just glad that I don't have to share an eternity of after life with people like this...
#248 Posted by jayp on February 8, 2008 1:31:06 am
Suicide bomber
I WOULD like to bring a very serious incident regarding the security situation of our country.
A friend of mine was driving down Sharea Faisal two days back when he was hailed by a man on the roadside to drop him at the nearby fuel pump. He said his car had broken down.
My friend stopped and the boy hopped into the car. A few yards down the road, he opened up his jacket and told my friend that he was a suicide bomber and wanted him to crash the car into a Rangers jeep.
He forced my friend, very frightened by the situation, to drive around and look for any Rangers car that they could crash into. All the time the stranger kept telling my friend that he should be happy to be transcended to Heaven after the blast.
Luckily enough, my friend ran out of fuel and so the boy alighted from the car and ran away. My friend is shattered by the experience.
We are certainly up against a difficult time these days and should be on our guard for any untoward incident.
A SHATTERED SOUL
Karachi
////////////////////
From dawn of today. My paki friends, watch out
I WOULD like to bring a very serious incident regarding the security situation of our country.
A friend of mine was driving down Sharea Faisal two days back when he was hailed by a man on the roadside to drop him at the nearby fuel pump. He said his car had broken down.
My friend stopped and the boy hopped into the car. A few yards down the road, he opened up his jacket and told my friend that he was a suicide bomber and wanted him to crash the car into a Rangers jeep.
He forced my friend, very frightened by the situation, to drive around and look for any Rangers car that they could crash into. All the time the stranger kept telling my friend that he should be happy to be transcended to Heaven after the blast.
Luckily enough, my friend ran out of fuel and so the boy alighted from the car and ran away. My friend is shattered by the experience.
We are certainly up against a difficult time these days and should be on our guard for any untoward incident.
A SHATTERED SOUL
Karachi
////////////////////
From dawn of today. My paki friends, watch out
#247 Posted by jayp on February 8, 2008 12:28:59 am
Re: # 103 skeptical,
I am also relying on the social science idioms. Pakistan could not have become terror central if the jihadi ideology is not consistent with the pak social values, which should be a shade different from that of other muslim countries. There are lot more muslim countries, but none of them have picked up the madrassa system so profoundly.
At some stage you have to account for the fact that pakistanis, almost born and brought up in the UK, returned to pakistan to blow up the trains. This has to be something that is transmitted through the pak familial system taken to the UK by those families. The only tangible explanation is the TNT. simple as that.
Can you come up with something different.
I am also relying on the social science idioms. Pakistan could not have become terror central if the jihadi ideology is not consistent with the pak social values, which should be a shade different from that of other muslim countries. There are lot more muslim countries, but none of them have picked up the madrassa system so profoundly.
At some stage you have to account for the fact that pakistanis, almost born and brought up in the UK, returned to pakistan to blow up the trains. This has to be something that is transmitted through the pak familial system taken to the UK by those families. The only tangible explanation is the TNT. simple as that.
Can you come up with something different.
#246 Posted by laddu on February 7, 2008 11:32:48 pm
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#245 Posted by zeemax on February 7, 2008 11:02:55 pm
#244 Posted by majumdar,
I suppose you're not aware that the tunnel passes through Mohmand Agency, i.e. FATA.
I suppose you're not aware that the tunnel passes through Mohmand Agency, i.e. FATA.
#244 Posted by majumdar on February 7, 2008 10:56:12 pm
Vikramaditya ji,
(But Gandhi ji and Nehru seem to have missed it too.)
Maybe they too were completely deluded.
(Or were the British preventing the Hindus from practicing Hinduism?)
No. As to why the Injuns were asking for independence from the Brits, dont ask me, I wasnt a part of the "freedom movement" (sic).
Zee sahib,
(A fantastic infrastructural facility in their area?)
Provided they control the whole area in the first place.
(All they wanted to do was to cut off logistics of PA which they successfully did.)
Yes, but now that the PA has recaptured the area, logistics will be restored especially when the weather warms up.
Regards
(But Gandhi ji and Nehru seem to have missed it too.)
Maybe they too were completely deluded.
(Or were the British preventing the Hindus from practicing Hinduism?)
No. As to why the Injuns were asking for independence from the Brits, dont ask me, I wasnt a part of the "freedom movement" (sic).
Zee sahib,
(A fantastic infrastructural facility in their area?)
Provided they control the whole area in the first place.
(All they wanted to do was to cut off logistics of PA which they successfully did.)
Yes, but now that the PA has recaptured the area, logistics will be restored especially when the weather warms up.
Regards
#243 Posted by viqarm on February 7, 2008 10:48:53 pm
Re: # 241
"(are you suggesting that it is fine for Muslim socities to be occupied by non-muslims as long as muslim are able to follow Islam?)
Why not"?
I guess you have a point. But Gandhi ji and Nehru seem to have missed it too. Or were the British preventing the Hindus from practicing Hinduism?
"(are you suggesting that it is fine for Muslim socities to be occupied by non-muslims as long as muslim are able to follow Islam?)
Why not"?
I guess you have a point. But Gandhi ji and Nehru seem to have missed it too. Or were the British preventing the Hindus from practicing Hinduism?
#242 Posted by zeemax on February 7, 2008 10:46:39 pm
#239 Posted by majumdar,
Why would they want to blow up the tunnel? A fantastic infrastructural facility in their area? All they wanted to do was to cut off logistics of PA which they successfully did. Now that there's ceasefire, they have allowed the same so that they can capture it when the ceasefire breaks down.
The last line is only half-kidding. Rest I leave to your imagination.
Why would they want to blow up the tunnel? A fantastic infrastructural facility in their area? All they wanted to do was to cut off logistics of PA which they successfully did. Now that there's ceasefire, they have allowed the same so that they can capture it when the ceasefire breaks down.
The last line is only half-kidding. Rest I leave to your imagination.
#241 Posted by majumdar on February 7, 2008 10:36:30 pm
Vikramaditya ji,
(So being made to lick cartridges containing pig's fat )
That the Enfield cartridges contained pig's or cow's fat was just a canard spread by Hindoos and Muslims. Actually it contained beeswax. Maybe Amin sahib can comment on this.
(Aside from the fact that it is not possible)
Why do you say so? What makes you think that occupiers will force Muslims to reject Islam?
(are you suggesting that it is fine for Muslim socities to be occupied by non-muslims as long as muslim are able to follow Islam?)
Why not?
Regards
(So being made to lick cartridges containing pig's fat )
That the Enfield cartridges contained pig's or cow's fat was just a canard spread by Hindoos and Muslims. Actually it contained beeswax. Maybe Amin sahib can comment on this.
(Aside from the fact that it is not possible)
Why do you say so? What makes you think that occupiers will force Muslims to reject Islam?
(are you suggesting that it is fine for Muslim socities to be occupied by non-muslims as long as muslim are able to follow Islam?)
Why not?
Regards
#240 Posted by viqarm on February 7, 2008 10:29:07 pm
Re: # 218 Sattar Sahib,
"Mirza Sahib forbade fighting jihad against the British since Quran did not allow such jihad".
Could you please cit me the chapter and verse where jihad against the British is prohibited?
"Rather, British allowed Muslims to freely practice Islam … something that was missing under Sikh rule in some parts of Punjab before the arrival of the Brisith".
wah, wah! So being made to lick cartridges con
"Mirza Sahib forbade fighting jihad against the British since Quran did not allow such jihad".
Could you please cit me the chapter and verse where jihad against the British is prohibited?
"Rather, British allowed Muslims to freely practice Islam … something that was missing under Sikh rule in some parts of Punjab before the arrival of the Brisith".
wah, wah! So being made to lick cartridges con