American Muslims and Presidential Elections 2008

Re: # 133

Zeena:

".....and should project ourselves as Muslims....as if headscarf is the only identity remained for Muslims...."

Iran is creating proud Iranian identity, their Islam happens to be part of it. I can take bets with you that they care less about projecting themselves. Pride is hardly projected, it exudes from the personality. When someone walks in people can feel it. Of course certain types want to project their identities, and get spotted quite quickly. A whore and a pimp would not stand on a dark corner and project herself, as no one will notice them. They want to be noticed. With this analogy of extreme projection, I am not implying any negative on any religion.

Can a person not leave Islam to the personal confines?

What amazes me is when responsible people can make above statements, and not see the problem is entirely in the thinking.

I have seen hippies in bell bottoms, drooping moustache, without bras walking around. I have seen mini-skirts and hair colors. Some chukcled, others joined, while the most simply ignored. The world simply went around and moved on.

There are many who have made personal choices to live with symbols they identify with their religioun. I have seen pundit in temple, wearing a choti. I would not want to wear one, even though growing up my father's elder brother had. When my daughters were growing up, they had asked me why do they wear and why not me? That was the most serious discussion I had with my daughters, after that I spent time with them explaining separation of personal space and things personal. One daughter turned out to be more religious than the other. Both are proud of their Indian heritage as born American. They make their choices. Religion hardly played the center stage for them to perform and learn kathak dance while growing up they indeed went to the local temple, and looked forward to festivals. The less religious one, chose to discover more of her Indian identity, when she went to Columbia. Other one became more spiritual instead. Freedom is the key, ability to learn to select and accepting mistakes can be a teacher is more critical. This approach builds tolerance in.

Why define values around one single theme and project it? There is something wrong in such definition and such urge to project.

i hope indian community participates in amrica first. amrica is thanksgiving, you have to bring something to the table before demanding shyte. so first we need to build big beth ramayan hospitals etc

masadi: i did not read your posts which are no doubt littered with abuse and lies and false accusations and hypocrisy in an attempt to get attention to your otherwise barren posts.

bulleya: I agree that political parties in Pakistan have been short-sighted in the past. It is clear though that they have learnt the hard way after 1999 that there is something more important than gaining power - and that is having a democratic system. As the leaders of the american revolution against King George said "We must hang together, or else we will hang separately". ZAB never understood this - and ended up getting hung, literally. NS did not understand this - and ended up having to agree to being exiled as the alternative to a similar fate. So - ultimately the fool does the same thing as a wise man, only much later and after suffering much damage. And so, our stupid, short-sighted politicians have woken up to the importance of "hanging together" on issues of national importance (i.e. defense from external aggression, and defenese from internal attempts at overthrowing the rule of law).

As for your saying that the US is desperate to keep Musharraf in power - the fact is that Musharraf is already powerless (and if this is not apparent even now, then it will become increasingly apparent over time).

Zeena jee u r not suggesting we respect kaalloos as well r u....but they r lazy bums on welfare..each n every one of em...u told us so

Mr.Writer
We don't need to be obsessed with our religion and should project ourselves as Muslims. No body does that. The mis interpreted kind of Islam is the main reason that average Americans hate Muslims as whole.

Rather Muslims should be more kind, less hateful, loving, honest and hard working instead of being obsessed with women making them wear headscarf....as if headscarf is the only identity remained for Muslims....this is sad, quite sad that Muslims are still trapped with Mullahism.....

Anyway, instead of projecting religion , try to project real deal as kindness , love and peace.

Time has come for all humans of this planet earth to ignore all other identities and stick to one id, called humanity.

If, all of us are sharing this planet, then it is our responsibility being the citizens of this planet earth to respect this planet and it's citizens....

Re: # 130

Romair:

Democracy hardly requires "unity" among diverse people. It instead creates a basis to evolve consensus among diverse people to deal even with conflicting situations.

As I see, in Pakistan's case, instead of seeking consensus, issues get settled "My Way or Highway" approach. Be it ZAB, Mujeeb, new crop of leaders, or Army.

Under democracy, parties submit to the will of people. Parties do not try to make people submit to their will, and weaken the will of people. However defective the submission method in democracy may be, over a period of time, they evolve as democratic institutions mature.

Indira Gandhi submitted to will of the people shortly after the imposition of emergency. She could have perpetuated her emergency and destroy democracy and India as we see today, but she did not.

Parties in Pakistan, as I have seen, have consistently trampled the will of people, and have refused to accept, however defective, democractic methods of submissions. Democracy never gets a chance outside the grey matter of some people in Pakistan, as if they use it to get or remain in power. Once they are in power, they, not democratic institutions, are supreme. Patience does not seem to a virtue being practised, it may be enshrined in Islamic books, but not to be practised. Only example, that stands out for me, is Iran. Its traditions, as accepted by Iranians themeselves, go to age before the arrival of Islam. It is possible Iran may be the beacon of that part of the world. America and the west is given Iran a reason to toughen up and carve out a proud identity also.

Re: # 129

Massaddi Mian:

"...more mature in our political understanding. Even the common beggar on the streets can tell you that the sob in the uniform who now sits in the presidency was "dancing to the tunes of amreeka"- ..."

Massaddi Mian's matric to measure maturity "in our political understanding" is stated above. Do you convert bright kids into donkeys in your class ?

tahmad #: the only reason pakistan has not had democracy is because the two large parties (at any time in pakistan's history) have never been able to unite.......the army is able to play one against the other.......while the army's top leaders always stay united......

had bhutto and mujeeb remained united, the military would have been out......had benazir and nawaz remained united, ditto....

had bb remained united with apdm, musharraf would have been out......however none of the above happened.....

the usa desparately wants musharraf to stay, but with a democratic facade......so it will push hard and put a lot of pressure on everyone to keep him in power......

so can the largest two parties remain united......it has never happened before......

i think the army will split them up.......ppp will be given a clean ride, without rigging........and pml-n will be decimated through rigging in favor of pml-q......

ppp + watered down pml-q + mqm will form the govt., with amin fahim as pm and musharraf as president......pml-q runs punjab, ppp runs sind and center.......

now if trends change, then musharraf is screwed.....the one big difference this time is the rise of the civil society and the media.....

one more thing...

tahmed writes "It is therefore all the more encouraging to see Pakistanis (whether ppp or pml) in the same way joining hands half-way around the world..."

Leave the Pakistanis out of this American shit, we are much above that BS and more mature in our political understanding. Even the common beggar on the streets can tell you that the sob in the uniform who now sits in the presidency was "dancing to the tunes of amreeka"- not even the widely read syndicated columnists in the US have that level of consciousness... when the American public start thinking for themselves, and demanding an accountability for the loot that its elite are perpetuating on their behalf while keeping them living paycheck to paycheck, in deep debt and now taking their houses away due to corporate manipulation, then will they even begin to approach a tenth of the political consciousness and "democracy" that the people of Pakistan espouse within their hearts, thanks largely to the work (sincerely or insincerely is besides the point) of one great leader we had in our entire history, ZAB...

Later....

tahmed writes :"#122 btw, i did some volunteer work in yesterday's primaries in the US - and it was great to see first hand how election judges (whether representing republicans or democrats) work closely together during polling as friends and fellow neighbors rather than as enemies or even political rivals, for the greater cause of democracy.."

Leave it to a peon of the West, one who thinks he has tasted the elexir or life by licking the white man's boots, to pontificate on the US political system based on his ONE DAY's volunteer work. Maybe he has forgotten the hate filled race baiting, mud slinging, horse trading, campaign fund manipulating rivalries that goes on in the US not to mention the behind the scenes BS that goes on to predetermine issues, make and break candidates by use the most intimate personal details of their lives and families, and this little fool says they love each other like neighbours and friends, and then HP wonders why my posts to this person are of such a harsh fashion. He is condemning our people to perpetual slavery to the West because he himself loves that servitude be it in his usual ignorant manner. I can laugh at his foolisness but this disease that he suffers from affects a multitude of people in India and Pakistan, the slaves that then drain the blood of their people on behalf of the white man.....

in todays Dowd column in ghe NYtimes:

"Obama is just creaming hillary. You know...all these primaries...you lnow. And hillary says its not fair, because they are being held in February, and February is Black history month. And unfortunately for Hillary there is no White Bitch Month"

#122 btw, i did some volunteer work in yesterday's primaries in the US - and it was great to see first hand how election judges (whether representing republicans or democrats) work closely together during polling as friends and fellow neighbors rather than as enemies or even political rivals, for the greater cause of democracy (even as we kept an eye open for any attempts at interfering with the election process).

It is therefore all the more encouraging to see Pakistanis (whether ppp or pml) in the same way joining hands half-way around the world for the same greater cause of democracy!! Pakistanis have demonstrated that they are second to none in the world when it comes to making personal sacrifices for the greater cause of their community and their nation.

#122 bulleye: I have no doubts about PPP (Zardari is just a wadera-wannabe). But nevertheless, he has chosen to ally himself with PML and that is great. At this time Pakistanis need a PPP-PML alliance in order to get rid of the far bigger threat posed by continued military rule.

Once Musharraf is out of the picture (and in the dock facing charges against his multiple crimes against Pakistan, hopefully, or - more likely - escapes to texas with his stolen wealth), the Judiciary may or may not be restored. If it is restored - that will go to Nawaz Sharif's great credit. If it is not - that will nevertheless still represent a giant step forward in the political development of Pakistan.

btw, just kidding on #123. dont mind.

bulleya: Floride is indeed very important for obama. As indeed it is for everyone else. Obama must try to stay away from the big state, though, since we all know that people in big state find it more difficult to climb stairs.

And in particular, Obama must do his best not to texas, because if Obama should choose to tax us how will we be able to spend money on things? :-(