American Muslims and Presidential Elections 2008
Ahmer Muzammil February 9, 2008
#33 Posted by hamidm2 on February 11, 2008 11:20:23 am
Re: # 32
aslam mian,
..... this guy sounds like our own urstruly who milked the system here for many many years before emigrating to greener pastures ...... for all we know, he might be living off the dole in your country now ... beware !
aslam mian,
..... this guy sounds like our own urstruly who milked the system here for many many years before emigrating to greener pastures ...... for all we know, he might be living off the dole in your country now ... beware !
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#34 Posted by mohar11 on February 11, 2008 11:45:43 am
Re: # 32
yet another case of mindless inbreeding mixed with islamic non-sense... why the heck do brits put up with this?
yet another case of mindless inbreeding mixed with islamic non-sense... why the heck do brits put up with this?
#35 Posted by slyder. on February 11, 2008 11:52:30 am
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#36 Posted by fuzair on February 11, 2008 6:11:58 pm
Romair and Hamidm,
Not sure that, despite his middle name and Muslim ancestry--although he says that his father had become an atheist long before he came to the US, Obama will be any less pro-Israeli than Clinton. Take a look at: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1200308099552&pagename=JPost%2FJP Article%2FPrinter
Remember, Clinton is the one who said that he would take up a gun in the defense of Israel.
I think that Obama, if he is elected, will continue the US's 'special relationship' with Israel; at most he might put a little bit more pressure on them but nothing fundamental (no pun intended) will change. For the forseeable future, the Jewish-Israeli lobby will be about 10x more powerful than the Muslim one. And lets face it, why would the US ever be 'pro Muslim' in the same way that it is pro-Israeli? We hate the US and, in any case, there is no such thing as the Ummah for the US being pro about; just a bunch of countries whose people hate the US, some a bit more and some a bit less.
If the Muslims in the US are ever to count for anything in influencing US foreign policy, as I wrote here on Chowk years ago, socialize with the 'real' Americans, work for the local Democratic/Republican party, run for Town Council, serve on the zoning board, go to July 4th picnics, have a beer after work, join the PTA/Kiwanis/Elks and worry about high school test scores and not about getting a one-hour break for Friday prayers, let your daughters date the neighbor's sons and, horrors, marry outside the faith.
In short, become Americans who came from an Islamicate society and not practicing Muslims who live an insulated and isolated life in the US. One of my colleagues at work, a very nice guy actually--lovely people he and his wife--is a Reformed Jew, strong Israel supporter, and loves his BLT for lunch.
If Muslims here in the US don't adapt along these lines, we aren't going to have much influence over US foreign policy since we will be too foreign to count for much.
Not sure that, despite his middle name and Muslim ancestry--although he says that his father had become an atheist long before he came to the US, Obama will be any less pro-Israeli than Clinton. Take a look at: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1200308099552&pagename=JPost%2FJP Article%2FPrinter
Remember, Clinton is the one who said that he would take up a gun in the defense of Israel.
I think that Obama, if he is elected, will continue the US's 'special relationship' with Israel; at most he might put a little bit more pressure on them but nothing fundamental (no pun intended) will change. For the forseeable future, the Jewish-Israeli lobby will be about 10x more powerful than the Muslim one. And lets face it, why would the US ever be 'pro Muslim' in the same way that it is pro-Israeli? We hate the US and, in any case, there is no such thing as the Ummah for the US being pro about; just a bunch of countries whose people hate the US, some a bit more and some a bit less.
If the Muslims in the US are ever to count for anything in influencing US foreign policy, as I wrote here on Chowk years ago, socialize with the 'real' Americans, work for the local Democratic/Republican party, run for Town Council, serve on the zoning board, go to July 4th picnics, have a beer after work, join the PTA/Kiwanis/Elks and worry about high school test scores and not about getting a one-hour break for Friday prayers, let your daughters date the neighbor's sons and, horrors, marry outside the faith.
In short, become Americans who came from an Islamicate society and not practicing Muslims who live an insulated and isolated life in the US. One of my colleagues at work, a very nice guy actually--lovely people he and his wife--is a Reformed Jew, strong Israel supporter, and loves his BLT for lunch.
If Muslims here in the US don't adapt along these lines, we aren't going to have much influence over US foreign policy since we will be too foreign to count for much.
#37 Posted by tahmed32 on February 11, 2008 6:56:17 pm
More bad news for the Men-Who-Would-Be-King (Musharraf and Ben Laden)...
Poll: Support for Musharraf Waning
..The survey by the International Republican Institute also found ... 75 percent of the respondents want Musharraf to resign, and only 15 percent approve of his performance...Pakistanis appeared divided on the issue of Islamic extremism, with a strong majority concerned about militants operating inside the country but also opposed to the alliance with the U.S.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021101 467.html
Poll: Support for Musharraf Waning
..The survey by the International Republican Institute also found ... 75 percent of the respondents want Musharraf to resign, and only 15 percent approve of his performance...Pakistanis appeared divided on the issue of Islamic extremism, with a strong majority concerned about militants operating inside the country but also opposed to the alliance with the U.S.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021101 467.html
#38 Posted by dost_mittar on February 11, 2008 7:13:19 pm
What's wrong with Indians on chowk? Here is a quite benign article by a Muslim asking fellow Muslims to take part in the American democratic processa and we have Indians seeing all kinds of motives in support of political islam.
Yes, Muslims should take part in elections and support candidates of their choice and then lobby with them, just as jews, Indians, Italian Americans, Black Americans and other hyphenated americans do. It is american as applie pie.
Yes, Muslims should take part in elections and support candidates of their choice and then lobby with them, just as jews, Indians, Italian Americans, Black Americans and other hyphenated americans do. It is american as applie pie.
#39 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on February 11, 2008 7:54:50 pm
I read parts of Obama's autobiography `Dreams of my Father'. When Obama came to New York, as a poor student, on a Scholarship to Columbia University, a Pakistani waiter, Saqib, offered him accomodation & he availed the offer.
Saqib used to chide him saying that `your degrees will be of no use. Start working'. Obama had only 3 plates & two towels.
NHK
#40 Posted by bulleya on February 11, 2008 8:12:53 pm
hamidm mian #: ....hmm...you still haven't hung it up.....quite amazing.....now you are pinning your hopes on obama.....
quite a change from pinning your hopes on bush......
as i said, hang it up, my friend.....you have had your day in the sun, with bush.....from what i hear, obama is trying to beat up on everyone highlighting the fact that he did not support the iraq war.....he even has hillary running for cover on this.....
and he is starting to promise withdrawls from iraq.....i.e ready to accept defeat....something which i told you would happen.......in fact i told you this, when you were on your really tall high horse, and when 2/3rd of the us population had been brainwashd into supporting this war.....
hang it up, before you embarrass yourself too much....the hardest the usa could have come down on, "muslims," or on anyone else was in iraq....i hope you will agree that it did not work.....
now if assume that the expat pakistani theory of being even more brutal for success (i.e. the fuzair theory) is not going to be followed by obama, then i feel you and mccain may well be left out in the cold.....
you should hope that hillary wins the democractic primary.....she is hated by too many republicans, and they may actually come out and vote.....
other than that, i think mccain will have trouble......they guy is disliked by the core republican base.......at the same time, the candidate of the core republicans - your friend bush - cannot even offer his endorsement to any republican candidate, as it is the kiss of death.....
so, i suggest you give it up, before you make a bigger fool of yourself.......
quite a change from pinning your hopes on bush......
as i said, hang it up, my friend.....you have had your day in the sun, with bush.....from what i hear, obama is trying to beat up on everyone highlighting the fact that he did not support the iraq war.....he even has hillary running for cover on this.....
and he is starting to promise withdrawls from iraq.....i.e ready to accept defeat....something which i told you would happen.......in fact i told you this, when you were on your really tall high horse, and when 2/3rd of the us population had been brainwashd into supporting this war.....
hang it up, before you embarrass yourself too much....the hardest the usa could have come down on, "muslims," or on anyone else was in iraq....i hope you will agree that it did not work.....
now if assume that the expat pakistani theory of being even more brutal for success (i.e. the fuzair theory) is not going to be followed by obama, then i feel you and mccain may well be left out in the cold.....
you should hope that hillary wins the democractic primary.....she is hated by too many republicans, and they may actually come out and vote.....
other than that, i think mccain will have trouble......they guy is disliked by the core republican base.......at the same time, the candidate of the core republicans - your friend bush - cannot even offer his endorsement to any republican candidate, as it is the kiss of death.....
so, i suggest you give it up, before you make a bigger fool of yourself.......
#41 Posted by bulleya on February 11, 2008 8:20:18 pm
fuzair #: you are correct......american politics (normally) works on political pressure groups and not on pesonal morality.......however, it helps if the person in the white house has some knowledge of the world, so he can decide the lesser wrong of two wrongs that are offered to him.....
bush was, basically, a front for cheney and the neo-cons.....one only has to hear a few of his speeches and the goof-ups he makes to realize how dim-witted he happens to be.......
so while obama will continue realpolitik, i assume he will not make the huge blunders that bush made (i don't see how anyone else can).......for example, i doubt usa would have been in iraq if gore had been president......
the aim is to kick bush out.......and the republicans out....in fact, americans are just about ready to kick them out, themselves.....
people like me had been suggesting, for a long time, that the usa would be at its weakest, by the time bush left......and this has proven to be true......
it has lost a major war.....it is on the verge of losing another.....it has had huge financial crises at home......its leading industrial institutions are looking to rich arabs for bailouts.....etc. etc.......granted, not the end of the great empire, but pretty serious setbacks.....
the israel-palestine thing won't change, however, i doubt usa will attack iran, if obama is elected.......
and anyone who has grown up in two religions, always has some portion of him that is a part of both......
bush was, basically, a front for cheney and the neo-cons.....one only has to hear a few of his speeches and the goof-ups he makes to realize how dim-witted he happens to be.......
so while obama will continue realpolitik, i assume he will not make the huge blunders that bush made (i don't see how anyone else can).......for example, i doubt usa would have been in iraq if gore had been president......
the aim is to kick bush out.......and the republicans out....in fact, americans are just about ready to kick them out, themselves.....
people like me had been suggesting, for a long time, that the usa would be at its weakest, by the time bush left......and this has proven to be true......
it has lost a major war.....it is on the verge of losing another.....it has had huge financial crises at home......its leading industrial institutions are looking to rich arabs for bailouts.....etc. etc.......granted, not the end of the great empire, but pretty serious setbacks.....
the israel-palestine thing won't change, however, i doubt usa will attack iran, if obama is elected.......
and anyone who has grown up in two religions, always has some portion of him that is a part of both......
#42 Posted by majumdar on February 11, 2008 8:30:23 pm
Romair,
(for example, i doubt usa would have been in iraq if gore had been president......)
Al Bore wud have been the Prez had not the Am Momins not voted en masse for Rep to avoid electing a Jew VP!!!
Regards
(for example, i doubt usa would have been in iraq if gore had been president......)
Al Bore wud have been the Prez had not the Am Momins not voted en masse for Rep to avoid electing a Jew VP!!!
Regards
#43 Posted by Zeena on February 11, 2008 9:16:45 pm
[[Case in point is what George Bush said on Sunday morning about Sen. Obama, "I certainly don't know what he believes in. The only foreign policy thing I remember he said was he's going to attack Pakistan and embrace Ahmadinejad." ]]]
And yes, this is what Obama stands for...I heard this inflammatory statement against Pakistan by Obama myself and that was the moment I made up my mind to support Obama's opponent......
I know all Presidential candidates are No friends to Pakistan, but none of them disrespected Pakistan in such an antagonistic way even though Pakistan would have had been their close ally in war on terrorism. They have used Pakistan always for their selfish motives. But,at least they saved the face values by appreciating Pakistan.
But, Obama with Muslim background instead of having a lil soft corner for Pakistan and it's innocent and poor people openly and shamelessly threatened to attack Poor People of Pakistan just to gain momentum for his political campaign.....Obama committed the worst crime of willing to kill millions of Pakistanis with or without the permission of Pakistani Govt.by making such a cruel statement.
Obama proves himself not only pathetically irresponsible by taking such a pathetic pot shot upon Pakistan's public....but also proves that he'll be the worst enemy of Pakistan who doesn't feel any shame openly on media that he doesn't care poor Pakistani people's lives.......all he cares is he is desperately in this Presidential race to win even at the cost of butchering innocent lives.....
Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all..............
And yes, this is what Obama stands for...I heard this inflammatory statement against Pakistan by Obama myself and that was the moment I made up my mind to support Obama's opponent......
I know all Presidential candidates are No friends to Pakistan, but none of them disrespected Pakistan in such an antagonistic way even though Pakistan would have had been their close ally in war on terrorism. They have used Pakistan always for their selfish motives. But,at least they saved the face values by appreciating Pakistan.
But, Obama with Muslim background instead of having a lil soft corner for Pakistan and it's innocent and poor people openly and shamelessly threatened to attack Poor People of Pakistan just to gain momentum for his political campaign.....Obama committed the worst crime of willing to kill millions of Pakistanis with or without the permission of Pakistani Govt.by making such a cruel statement.
Obama proves himself not only pathetically irresponsible by taking such a pathetic pot shot upon Pakistan's public....but also proves that he'll be the worst enemy of Pakistan who doesn't feel any shame openly on media that he doesn't care poor Pakistani people's lives.......all he cares is he is desperately in this Presidential race to win even at the cost of butchering innocent lives.....
Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all..............
#44 Posted by Zeena on February 11, 2008 9:22:50 pm
[[Case in point is what George Bush said on Sunday morning about Sen. Obama, "I certainly don't know what he believes in. The only foreign policy thing I remember he said was he's going to attack Pakistan and embrace Ahmadinejad." ]]]
And yes, this is what Obama stands for...I heard this inflammatory statement against Pakistan by Obama myself and that was the moment I made up my mind to support Obama's opponent......
I know all Presidential candidates are No friends to Pakistan, but none of them disrespected Pakistan in such an antagonistic way even though Pakistan would have had been their close ally in war on terrorism. They have used Pakistan always for their selfish motives. But,at least they saved the face values by appreciating Pakistan.
But, Obama with Muslim background instead of having a lil soft corner for Pakistan and it's innocent and poor people openly and shamelessly threatened to attack Poor People of Pakistan just to gain momentum for his political campaign.....Obama committed the worst crime of willing to kill millions of Pakistanis with or without the permission of Pakistani Govt.by making such a cruel statement.
Obama proves himself not only pathetically irresponsible by taking such a pathetic pot shot upon Pakistan's public....but also proves that he'll be the worst enemy of Pakistan who doesn't feel any shame openly on media that he doesn't care poor Pakistani people's lives.......all he cares is he is desperately in this Presidential race to win even at the cost of butchering innocent lives.....
Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge NOT to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all..............
And yes, this is what Obama stands for...I heard this inflammatory statement against Pakistan by Obama myself and that was the moment I made up my mind to support Obama's opponent......
I know all Presidential candidates are No friends to Pakistan, but none of them disrespected Pakistan in such an antagonistic way even though Pakistan would have had been their close ally in war on terrorism. They have used Pakistan always for their selfish motives. But,at least they saved the face values by appreciating Pakistan.
But, Obama with Muslim background instead of having a lil soft corner for Pakistan and it's innocent and poor people openly and shamelessly threatened to attack Poor People of Pakistan just to gain momentum for his political campaign.....Obama committed the worst crime of willing to kill millions of Pakistanis with or without the permission of Pakistani Govt.by making such a cruel statement.
Obama proves himself not only pathetically irresponsible by taking such a pathetic pot shot upon Pakistan's public....but also proves that he'll be the worst enemy of Pakistan who doesn't feel any shame openly on media that he doesn't care poor Pakistani people's lives.......all he cares is he is desperately in this Presidential race to win even at the cost of butchering innocent lives.....
Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge NOT to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all..............
#45 Posted by majumdar on February 11, 2008 9:24:27 pm
Zeenaji,
(Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....)
Your family made a pledge to support Obama at any cost??? Inspite of all his statements against Pak???
Good God!!!
Regards
(Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....)
Your family made a pledge to support Obama at any cost??? Inspite of all his statements against Pak???
Good God!!!
Regards
#46 Posted by Zeena on February 11, 2008 9:46:14 pm
majumdar ji
Oops sorry for the huge typo....
If, you read my last post, I corrected the mistake...
[[Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge NOT to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all]]]..............
No w read more....
Yup, their will be brokered convention. Oh, boy o boy my my my , will there be massive horse trading just like Pakistan where Horse trading or donkey trading is the rule of the political machine game..........
And McCain will be on the beneficiary side from democratic extremely polarized poll.....
I think what started as the best for Democraatic party would end up as being the worst for them......
If they would be wise enough they would be unified by now as dream ticket....for 16 years...but, they lack such depth....all they say is change, oh yes they can...
When this change thingie will take them to slun lord business again , but certainly not in to white house.....
Oops sorry for the huge typo....
If, you read my last post, I corrected the mistake...
[[Right after this statement all our family friends circles from Pakistan made this pledge NOT to support Obama at any cost for disgracing Pakistan....
Thank God, we have self respect.....After hearing such a pathetic inflammatory inhumane speech I can't stand Obama at all]]]..............
No w read more....
Yup, their will be brokered convention. Oh, boy o boy my my my , will there be massive horse trading just like Pakistan where Horse trading or donkey trading is the rule of the political machine game..........
And McCain will be on the beneficiary side from democratic extremely polarized poll.....
I think what started as the best for Democraatic party would end up as being the worst for them......
If they would be wise enough they would be unified by now as dream ticket....for 16 years...but, they lack such depth....all they say is change, oh yes they can...
When this change thingie will take them to slun lord business again , but certainly not in to white house.....
#47 Posted by Zeena on February 11, 2008 9:51:28 pm
majumdar ji
read more.....
Both Pakistanis and Indians are extremely hard working bunch of people and majority of them don't support Obama, b/c they have clarity of mind to see beyond their illusions of false slogans , change , change, change...oh, yes we can....
What we can?
Obama is still an underdog..........
If, Obama wins nominee, all my Pakistani circles will vote for McCain......
As for as McCain is I am sure republicans have learnt their lesson and they don't wish to admit Bush's mistakes, so just to save face values, they're making case for Bush to cover up....
And I am sure republicans won't send troops on war for a long long time.........McCain is the most liberal conservative...........
read more.....
Both Pakistanis and Indians are extremely hard working bunch of people and majority of them don't support Obama, b/c they have clarity of mind to see beyond their illusions of false slogans , change , change, change...oh, yes we can....
What we can?
Obama is still an underdog..........
If, Obama wins nominee, all my Pakistani circles will vote for McCain......
As for as McCain is I am sure republicans have learnt their lesson and they don't wish to admit Bush's mistakes, so just to save face values, they're making case for Bush to cover up....
And I am sure republicans won't send troops on war for a long long time.........McCain is the most liberal conservative...........
#48 Posted by majumdar on February 11, 2008 9:54:59 pm
Zeenaji,
Re: #47/#46/#44/#43
The truth has to be told, however bitter it may sound.
If Obama becomes Prez more of Paki (and Injun) tax dollars will go to support lazy black people on welfare. And Pakis will be subject to more mugging and racist attacks and slurs by black people. All Paki Americans shud close ranks behind Hillary and shud Obama win the Dem ticket, support McCain.
Regards
Re: #47/#46/#44/#43
The truth has to be told, however bitter it may sound.
If Obama becomes Prez more of Paki (and Injun) tax dollars will go to support lazy black people on welfare. And Pakis will be subject to more mugging and racist attacks and slurs by black people. All Paki Americans shud close ranks behind Hillary and shud Obama win the Dem ticket, support McCain.
Regards
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