Pakistan Elections 2008 - An analysis

Re: # 192 as i said , till this point in time the army mafia generals see him as their man so he is calling the shots but this position can change .

i give u three solid examples:--

1-ayub khan ditched Maj General Sikandar Mirza in 1958.

2-yahya ditched FM Ayub Khan in 1969.

3-zia ditched PM ZAB in 1977.

Musharraf is halfway between ZAB ,Mirza and Ayub.He is neither FM nor an all powerful popular civilian PM nor as weak as Maj Gen Sikandar Mirza because never was the army chief.

zeemax & Pavocavlary.

I would like to see your opinion on the radical change that Army has gone thru in the past few months, when Mushraf was forced to quit his post as chief of mafia. At that time I thought that the a/hole will be sat in a ceremonial position as the president excerciing only 58(2)B when needed; but we see that the a/hole is still calling the shots. I would like to know how has command structure of army thus changed. How come they are taking orders from a civilian. I am talking about pakistan. in rest of the civilized world every army takes orders from civilian leadreship.

Re: # 188

From "The Saviour" to "The Devil" - mushy's fall from high horse has been so dramatic... ain't it?... well, what goes around comes around... Give him hell...

... and yes I remember I had acceded re YLH, he's a good guy. I had even asked you for more recommendations for the spare-list. I had promised to save hamidm as well if he promised to take me to the mile-strip ...

So, no one can accuse me of being indiscriminate!

Re: # 188 i wish that our great friend ZEEMAX was right.But from what I saw of the army in 13 years service till December 1993 and of Pakistan as a state , the Pakistanis are politically hopeless.

#184/185 Posted by mohar11,

I have no plans re musharraf, who am I to have those. I'm an armchair warrior remember?

But I gotta tell you this. He will not be spared if he moves to Texas or to North Pole. Someone will get him ... along with his entire kith & kin when the tide turns.

TYPING ERRORS:--

"in this case the army generals had assesses , one their own naukries were in danger and mush was damaging the ego of the punjabi army"

FOR THE ABOVE READ FOLLOWING AS CORRECT :--

"in this case the army generals had assessed , one their own naukries were in danger and Nawaz Sharif was damaging the ego of the punjabi army.

Re: # 182 there is some confusion.the real jats who did anything were the sikhs who created the sikh state and who were in majority in fighting arms of indian army till WW One.After this they were reduced because in WW One they showed anti British sentiments.

Nawaz Sharif did make a bold attempt but failed.When he was removed there was no agitation in punjab.Further the sad part is that nawaz like ZAB was also army's creation.

my friend nawaz was an exception .he was a Murgh i Dast Amoz who developed independent flying ability and was therefore grounded by the army.Its a very sad process.

yes an odd punjabi PM did sack the chief but in the final calculation the army and punjabis mutually respect each other.after all its the punjabi army .even mush all along was fulfilling the punjabi agenda.from what i saw of him he identified himself as a punjabi at least institutionally.and the punjabi corps commander mahmud brought him to power.i can bet that moinuddin haider or usmani would not have done that .in this case the army generals had assesses , one their own naukries were in danger and mush was damaging the ego of the punjabi army.

So Zee - what's your plan for Mushy - if and when you catch him?...

Re: # 170 majum

Fate worse than Zia would be Saddam, or Nazibullah of A'stan - dragged on street and hanged literally from the lampost. Islamic people have a lot of imagination when it comes to brutalize their own... :)

But Mushy, the muhajir is too smart for the islamics to get him - when it comes to the crunch he will sneak out in time to Boston... I am not worried about him...

I am very worried about YLH though - he is too dumb and has a big mouth... I have a long-standing request with Zeemax to spare him... :)

this process started under the british.the brits could not allow punjab to be politicised for strategic reasons . so they made sure that it was kept under strict control.it was non regulation province where the deputy commissioner had excessive as well as arbitrary powers.

my grandfathers brother told me that the orders were that once a brit came in front of an indian in punjab the indian had to get down from 300 yards.

#181 Posted by pavocavalry,

Nawaz Sharif confronted the army. He fired two COAS's. How do you explain that Sir?

Or perhaps it's the Kashmiri in him who're not really 'sons of the soil' from central Punjab Jats who're the mercenary army!

Your words above, not mine re the mercenary part.

Re: # 180 well , what i am merely saying is that the army has so many links with punjab that no punjabi politician will confront the army and if he does there is no agitation in punjab when this politician is removed , further the army intelligence agencies have so deeply penetrated punjab that all independent leadership has been destroyed.this was done in the british era and perfected by the paki army.the army will not fire in punjab but it is trigger happy in balochistan,sindh,NWFP,East Pakistan .Similarly the punjabi politician will also note confront the army.both have too many connections.so in the end this will lead to pakistan's disintegration.

... but having said that Pavocavalry, always remember:

Da Punjabiyan beyghairatoona di, kho daoosaan na di.

Da Pakhtanonan daoosaan di, kho beyghairatoonaan na di.

#177 Posted by pavocavalry,

So Pavocavalry, the only thing that redeemed me from Punjabi beyghairati was having lived mostly in the 'non-settled' and uncivilized areas of NWFP :)

#174 Posted by pavocavalry,

pakistan is not a state but an army with a state

This is true. But as my good (now estranged) friend SR had once said, the Austro-Prussian Army was the same but left without a state and dispersed.