Pakistan Elections 2008 - An analysis

This all sounds so childish, apparently free from any intellect interActors are acting in a playful manner with their 2 cents worth, deserving a short response: he he he he, or, may be a LoL, mein manjhi kithay pawaan?

In retrospect, I was right about the ethnic parties and PPP. Got PML-N and the Chaudhry PML wrong.

All in all the people of Pakistan have spoken. They have cast their vote for Jinnah's federal democratic and I daresay secular Pakistan.

That is what matters. Pakistan Zindabad.

Re: # 338

Hamid mia,

Deoband guys are not idiots enough to do anything that would make them face fire and lynching from common idolators. That is the way to talk to them. They know it and keep themselves well behaved in idolator land.

But here is what Hamid gul is hoping and predicting on behalf of Zeemax and Truly bhais type-

-
Ex-ISI chief foresees Iran-like revolution in Pak
18 Feb 2008, 0859 hrs IST,PTI


TORONTO: Former chief of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has said "an Iran-like revolution" is possible in the country if President Pervez Musharraf does not step down immediately.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Ex-ISI_chief_foresees_Iran-like_revolutio n_in_Pak/articleshow/2791020.cms

Musharraf calls Iftikhar “scum of the earth”

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: President Pervez Musharraf has called former chief justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry “the scum of the earth – a third-rate man – a corrupt man.”
In an interview to Jemima Khan, published in the Independent, London, on Sunday, the president said of the lawyers’ movement against the chief justice’s dismissal, “With hindsight, it was my personal error that I allowed them to go and express their views in the street. … We should have controlled them in the beginning before it got out of control.”
The president told Imran Khan’s former wife, who writes off and on for British newspapers, “At least we part on agreement.” He was referring to her remark, “It will be the saddest day for Pakistan if Benazir’s crooked widower is in power by Monday.”

Massaddi Mian:

Amount of time you spend in explaning "Logical Speculation" shows where your priorities are. No wonder that you are unable to observe beauty in rest of the world. Learning never stops, Massaddi Mian. Of all people you must know it. Are you not a teacher?

Re: # 327

Romair:

There is lot of posturing that is going on with Iran. There is cooperation too. Did you read the news of U.S. Iranian officials meeting last week? Only confrontation is obvious.

Please consider, how many times, the U.S. President has gone to public to reverse a policy and says that there is no nuclear program in Iran to make nuclear bomb? How many times, an ex-President in Op-ed has said that the U.S. must negotiate with Iran? Iran is indeed forging a strong identity in democratic fashion for the U.S. Presidents to respond even when there are no diplomatic relations. Ahmednijad is bold, he indeed made bold - albeit wrong - statements at Columbia University. I am certain Gandhi wearing lion clothe to meet the King made bold statement too. The U.K. press must have joked, and in that cold british weather, it could not be a right statement. My point is bold expressions are needed, for that flying planes into WTC is not needed.

I have said many times that if a nation is committed to get technology which is over 60 years old, they would get it. Pakistan and India proved it. I am certain oil consuming economies are aware of this reality also. In my scenario, Israel Palestine will co exist, and problems too will co exist, new one will be created. A problem, there keeps problem away from oil. Think of problem areas as anthills. Only in anthills, ants keep themselves voluntarily away from sweets.

The only solution to that problem is, if a Palestinian Gandhi can emerge. Neither the U.S., not Israel are in any rush to find that solution there and to make anthills disappear, for ants to appear near the sweet (oil).

Such a Gandhi can emerge from a group of Islamists like Zeemax sahibs, when they are ready to shed violence. They must first shed violence. Key word here is, "First".

Other things you mention regarding medicines etc., I have lumped them under "bombing democracry into Iraq, which has failed.

I presented a scenario that I think is being played out. You may not find it plausible.

Re: # 345
LundFaqir pehlay apni bund band ker, boo bauhat aari hai. Idher terayko customer nahi milta.

Re: # 345

fakir mian,

..... why are you lumping arjun mian, hazrat tahmed (pbuh in advance) and me together ?

.... tahmed is not a mirzai and certainly not a murtad (he is just a man in search of a new religion)
..... i am not a mirzai and just a borderline murtad
..... arjun is a horrible hindoo (worse than a mirzai, but certainly not a murtad)

.... and why are you so upset at me? i don't think i have ever interacted with you unless you have appeared here under a different avatar .....

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#341 Posted by masadi on February 17, 2008 7:19:18 am


what it did in Lebanon in July of 2006


The lebs don't like it...tough...they shouldn't have sheltered hezbollah to begin with..

first they shelter hezbollah..then they whine about israel blowing up their bridges? who said that the practioners of the religion of peace get to decide the rules of retaliation and what kind of retaliation is justified?

hamid writes "...... israel is just a bogey man used by the ummah as an excuse for their own failures ......... "

It is no "bogey man"- what it did in Lebanon in July of 2006, not to mention its history in the region proves that, but it does not call the original shots, it is merely a piracy outpost of the US elite to keep the area and its resources in check and to prevent any people's movement from engulfing the area to get rid of the tin pots they control...and finally what is a 'bogey man' for peons of the white man is the idea of a so-called ummah when there is none, not even a semblance of one, and the failures of that area can most definiately be traced to their immediate history, traced to the white man and his BS, and to the governments he has supported and most definitely to the piracy outpost the white man has set up in that area- ISRAEL....

Re: # 326

Under Saudi law, the death penalty is mandatory for a long list of crimes including murder, rape, drug trafficking, sodomy (now called same sex love in San Francisco, New York, and Boston) and armed robbery. Saudi law allows the death penalty for a number of crimes. For example:

Murder
Adultery
Rape
Sexual misconduct
Apostasy
Homosexuality
Drug-related crime
Sedition
Witchcraft

In addition, here is the travel warning given to tourists about Saudi on WikiTravel:

“Homosexuality is punishable by death.

Drug smuggling is punishable by death.

Adultery is punishable by death if you are married, and lashes if not.

Apostasy (Converting from Islam) is eventually punishable by death."

:)

why don't you ask your government to bomb the jihadi factory in deoband


why would india want to bomb the people who're killing pakis?

Re: # 335

laddu,

..... why don't you ask your government to bomb the jihadi factory in deoband and impose a tax on beards and burqas in india ? .... show us how to do it... thank you for your cooperation

Re: # 327

romair,

... captain, blaming palestine for all our problems is like me blaming the indian gujus in new jersey for my rapidly expanding waistline - i don't have to stop by every dunkin donut ...... israel is just a bogey man used by the ummah as an excuse for their own failures .........

tahmed32,

Watch this interview first and give me your comments:

http://pkpolitics.com/2008/02/15/better-pakistan-15-february-08/

Re: # 333

" Perhaps the taliban would have mellowed over time as you say - but this then begs the question: mellowed into what? That is - would they have mellowed into.."

Never under-estimate the greed and hunger of the mullahs. Remember, that the Islamists started getting bolder with the Shia Ayotollahs in Iran and since then the Ayotollahs have really turned into vicious war mongers with their latest alsatian dog being that idiot Ahmedijan.
Thr mullahs are the real threat to the civil society anywhere and especially in Pakistan. Their power to influence civil and other institutions is immense they aim to use the democratic institutions to SUBVERT democracy itself!!
Unless the mullahs are dis-qualified from participating in the elections nothing would comoe out of elections. Jehad would remain on the agenda of Pakistani "democracy" and it would continue burning for a long time.

Re: # 333

tahmed,

..... stop trying to present us with your version of islam until you have personally talked to a winged creature - and no, talking to peter pan at disney world does not count !

..... islam is what it is and we should set it aside - wrap it up in a velvet cover and put it up on top of the bookcase where children cannot get to it ....... if we try to unwrap the velvet cover we will let loose the denizens of hell like the house of saud, zeemax, the taliban and the witches of lal masjid ......

zeemax #310 The thing I would stress is the process through which laws (including punishments for various crimes) are established, interpreted and carried out. Perhaps the taliban would have mellowed over time as you say - but this then begs the question: mellowed into what? That is - would they have mellowed into

1. following the democratic process, in particular having themselves held accountable to the people by submitting to free and fair elections?

2. meting out milder punishments while maintaining their autocratic rule (claiming they received their mandate from God, not from the Afghan people)?

If 1., and assuming that 99% of Afghans sincerely wish to follow the Quranic injunctions, then the democratic process would have led to a free and open debate on the message of the Quran in Afghanistan. And the Taliban would be dead meat in such a debate - because it could be easily demonstrated their "islam" is not that of the Quran but that of the primitive tribal pathan society. That their "islam" is in fact nothing more than the very jehaliyat that Islam did away with in 7th century Arabia and gave birth to a 4-5 centuries when muslims were the torchbearers of civilization.

If 2., then of course Afghans would continue to have their lives in a "might is right" society - with the hope that the man in power would not be a psychopath who thinks stoning women to death or having public beheadings in soccer stadiums is a great way to promote morality.

#331 Posted by pavocavalry,

Don't worry too much about it. It's a ritual monkey dance which hindoos have in breeding season!

it is humbly suggested that such unparliamentary language should not be used on this forum.

with utmost humility and respect

Agha

#328/329 Posted by queen_cut_paste,

Aah ... I see you too found where you emerged from. Congrats. Didn't know that foto would be so many's ancestor!

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anil #: "Oil consuming economies want to get back in a seat somehow, somewhere, so that Oil is never under a unified block of people living on the top of the land"

isn't there a contradiction here.......the oil consuming ecnomies go out of there way to ensure that the products are services they control and have a monopoly over, are not allowed out to anyone else.......even vaccines for aids are not allowed to be produced, much more cheaply, as a generic drug, so that they are affordable by people in africa.....pfiezer and all ensure their patents are protected by the govt. of the usa......

why, then, should and would, the oil producing countries not do the same........

"Oil consuming economies will never allow Nuclear Weapons to be injected in the region where Oil is, so long as oil remains the primary source of energy..."

the oil producing region starts from iraq and ends in iran....and it starts from central asia and ends in iran as well.......the whole region would thus include the border states, as well, i.e. israel and pakistan........

israel and pakistan already have nukes......so nukes have already been introduced into the region.......now iran is after them.......how will the usa stop iran from obtanining nukes, if there is, "no short term or longer term nonsense on Iran.."

considering the fact that the west's (read usa's) policies in the middle east have backfired one after the other, don't you think it is time for the usa to have rethink on its middle east policies........

perhaps, if the usa ensures a two-state palestine solution based on 67 borders (which the arabs have accepted), most if not all, of its oil problems will be solved.......arabs will sell oil to the usa and usa will give them ipods........and everyone will be happy.......

there is a big elephant in the room........i.e. israel-palestine.....if the usa looks at it, instead of trying to walk around it all the time, things would get easier........

#325 Posted by dost_mittar,

That's right, but you wouldn't have heard of any case since. That case was more about Royal intrigues for power than about adultery.

zee:

I don't know about mandatory but a few years ago there was a famous case involving, I think, a saudi woman from a royal family who was sentenced to death for adultery.

#323 Posted by dost_mittar,

Adultery does not carry a mandatory capital sentence in either Saudia or Sudan which are currently the only countries ruled by Sharia alone.

As for blasphemy, that's not a social offense but a religious one (as is apostasy), and both carry automatic mandatory death sentences even in semi-sharia jurisprudence as in Pakistan. Reason is that both these offenses, if proven without doubt, are considered unmitigable under any circumstances.

zee:

"Saudia too awards mandatory capital punishment for drugs and murder, but not for any other stuff"

What about adultery? I am not sure about blasphemy, either.

anil writes ""There is no short term or longer term nonsense on Iran, that you are talking about. None, whatsoever."

I was given advice to ignore nonsense by morons like you who keep following me like a jamadar. Short term means in the next 4 years of the presidential term, learn how to read moron, longer term means after the next term or maybe two....You need to think about the US iraq campaign and that it did not develop into a land invasion/occupation overnight...

anil writes "
Massaddi Mian:

"...Logical speculation..."

Quite oxymoronic. Please learn something. "


Actually you need to "learn something", Harvard Business School graduate with an email address to prove! lol

Empirical speculation would be oxymoronic, logical specualtion would not. How are you going to speculate with any semblance of realism if you dont connect your thoughts logically?

Re: # 316

Massaddi Mian:

"....a short term adventure into Iran, ... if a longer term Iran campaign is needed..."

You are completely out of your depth. It does not come as a surprise. Just remember, you read it here first, "There is no short term or longer term nonsense on Iran, that you are talking about. None, whatsoever."

The interest of all sane parties is purely ensuring continuity, and protection of humans living in oil consuming economies. Soon competition for resources will introduce one more factor missing from the colonial times, that is equitable distribution of wealth and profits which will go to oil producing economies.

Oil consuming economies want to get back in a seat somehow, somewhere, so that Oil is never under a unified block of people living on the top of the land, till such time the oil becomes irrelevant and alternative economies and technologies are in place. Or till people living over the land that has oil underneath, come in to Law of Comity of Nations, and a new economic order for equitable sharing of underground, on the ground and overground (solar) energy resources has been put in place.

Under this new order, Iraq cannot remain united as it was under the Baathists. A completely different leadership must emerge there, which can manage transition of oil resources from Sunni Controlled Baathists, to Shia controlled Iraqis.

Iran will get its fair and honorable position in the world scene. No one can stop it. Oil consuming economies will never allow Nuclear Weapons to be injected in the region where Oil is, so long as oil remains the primary source of energy. Read Oil Consuming Economies, and Never.

Result of relentless Iranian pursuit will be a more powerful, and a democratic Iranian Identity, with 65% women students in Universities defining empowerment in uniquely Iranian way. The way that delivers those things that bombing democracy into Iraq was supposed to deliver, but did not deliver. The comity of nation is a witness to it, colonials lost in the past, Iran will prevail.

Comity of Nations have ways to come back from brinkmanship and accept a new forces and reorganize itself. In other terms it is also called, recognizing a new Dada (street fighter) and his territory (=space).

What is this space for Iran, and what must oil consuming economies pay is unknown.

Denuclear Democratic Iran, and Corrupt and Sadistic Saudi, Monarchs, with splintered Iraq the scene is acceptable to oil consuming economies. It is nothing more than basic law of economics - demand and supply. And how to balance and manage it.

Oil is around Basra - a shia region - there is nothing for Islamic red-necks like you and your running dogs, unless Iran invites you.

This is something oil consuming economies need to negotiate with Iran (a democracy) and Saudis (a corrupt despotic monarchy with your 7th century in action).

In this splintered Iraq, oil will be under shia influence of Iran. What is the "additonal operating cost" is the question for oil consuimg economies. It means the additional cost oil consuming economies must pay for this protectorateship of Iraqi oil as it passes from Sunni Baathist of Iraq to Shias of Iraq + Iran.

Is this a manageable balance? If so, new Lawrence of Arabia Tony Blair, will emerge. He is now the middle east ambassador for The Four, the U.S., EU, Russia and China. Note the last two also. This is as far as oil consuming economies are concerned. None of this has anything to do with Pakistan, only an Islamic red-neck like you will advance its chips on others testasterones.

Please note that Pakistan will loose importance, the moment it is de-nuked, and it is ensured that the largest standing muslim Army does not fall in the hands of Islamic red-necks like you and your running dogs.

There is no other strategic interest in Pakistan, till it reinvents into an economic mircale due to its proximity to resource rich part of the world and economic growth parts of the world. This reinvention is what is needed, it does not need Islamic red-necks. Like red-necks elsewhere, they must be marginalized and remain marginalized for such a Pakistan to emerge. It is almost Allah sent, that Islamic red-necks have started fighting the army. Can this fighting ensure that the largest standing muslim army will not fall in the hands of Islamic Red-Necks like? Is what will decide, if Pakistan remains unified or is balkanized.

In best scenario, should allow Pakistani Punjab to marginalize or clear out Islamic red-necks and send them to FATA etc. This is the largest part which can propel unified Pakistan into economic miracle. India needs to, and it will ensure that these red-necks do not cross into east side of the border.

Please do not worry, just as Islamic red-necks like you, use, CIAs can and will also use, your 7th Century to Mills par course to ensure violence begets violence. You should not be surprised, if their messages quote the same verses that Islamic red-necks and their running dogs quote to incite violence. Of courese they will target Islamic red-necks. They may not waste on your running dogs, unless they are caught in the cross fire. Islamic red-necks can fight each other for hundred years, if they wish, in certain areas of Pakistan and Afganistan and away from world's encircled and secured oil assets with new partnerships, and also away from economic centers.

This scenario does put unified Pakistan in danger. This danger is from you and your ilk and no one else, not even Zeemax kind of islamists. Oil consuming economies can deal (tolerate) with socialist Venezuela, theocratic Saudis, and with emerging Democratic Iran, they can also deal with comity of nations with Sunni islamist views also.

This Massaddi Mian is not you will learn in 7th Century to Mills par course. Never.

#308 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 16, 2008 8:10:33 pm


but they grown on tigers milk


you're hilarious...

Re: # 316

Massaddi Mian:

"...Logical speculation..."

Quite oxymoronic. Please learn something.

I am not suggesting that Lieberman would be McCain's running mate (though it is possible) but that they are both intimately joined at the hip...

zeemax writes "Actually I still haven't figured out whom exactly is propelling this idiot Obama who isn't qualified enough to be a high-school headboy let alone the President of USA."

Logical speculation on this tells us that what has propelled him is what propelled McCain, even moreso than him. Hillary would be a more formidible opponent for McCain, as far as the political elite go she is well established. Like I said, if elite opinion is for a short term adventure into Iran, McCain and his pal Lierberman- the Israeli spy in the US senate- are their man, Hillary would be the choice if a longer term Iran campaign is needed. The Iran campaign is by the way intimately tied to Pakistan as the staging area, be it under the Israeli flag for a short term campaign- to control fallout or a longer term, hosting of US troops in large numbers...

Re: # 311 Mr. Jayp you people do not believe in deenergised water. Please note there is blind belief and also your's is mind full of blind disbelief about such meaty matters.
Do you know why most men women are suffering sex problems now ? Ii all depends on what you eat , drink and breathe. Of all water is most exhausted all enery taken out like depleted uranium is not strong as enriched. Not its kind of sad modern attempt to take that water, deenergise it( take stuff out of it) and then put carbon di oxide in water and make it more poisnous and to make sure it is deadly put chemical sugar/ saccrine so all bladders are destroyed. Over years drinkig this poisnous water men are like steer and women are bloated with poisnous water ( body is 75%) h2o they say. all fruiyts grown on such things no good taste. Now man and women is worried always as this water is killing them. Your sex guru even mentions in book ( i will not take name) most import part in sex is brain forget about other parts. And he says best way be blaessed to Calm mind and he says calm relaxed mind only can have quality stuff. He says eople have control on mind and can relax themselves can reach high state of eternal bliss. He warns about being do not be overemphasis on mechanical aspects, mental aspects are more important.Problem is that with bad stuff you yung people consuming so much water keeps you awake when all are sleeping about performance. Mind should be awake intectually and indian sex guru says when best things happen when mind is sublime and then you can feel your own pulse and he mentions mental intercourse and then mental visual etc. I really liked that book as it has less garbage information and there lot of wisdom and emphesis on sex as a mental activity of high order.
Any way people are drinking poisoned stuff as bottled water laced with gas sure vigara factories working over nights. Real things will start when its copy right is finished as little indians will be producing same molecule by different process and market same stuff with advts. all is going down. Also as that sex guru warns of over simulation , he asks Kings do other import things and preoccupy time with other things. Modern problem is ovesimulation and burning from both ends fast is problem . Atleast in Muslim countries socal life sexual content is less helps to keep things better but europe is going down fast and they can not replace themselves. And their doctors are putting more medicines in bodies of people the stuff cooked at 800 degressa and under 2000 psi and then crushing real bad stuff. Only you drink water from well is good as it is deep and when you pump up you are making it energised. Any way you stop contributing as you problem with hate , enevy and jelosy with neighbour country. Good day.

madani saab,

You can call it pakistan phobia, for us it is simple anti terrorism stand. AS more people become aware of the central role of pakistan, and its ideological roots, the world might be able to come up with some policies to contain terrorism, which also means contain pakistan.

Re: # 310 On average china execute 50,000 people each year

Re: # 308 arjun, jayp etc you provoke by your stupid outlandish statements. I will not react with you as you people have some problem and it can not be cured you have Pakistan phobia. Why you not employ your talents to write about KSE etc, real stuff I mean.

Thanks madani saab. You are one of the most hilarious posters on chowk . I really enjoyed your post on how teh water is contaminated when electricity is taken out. You should add this to the kashmir logic.

Kashmir is not like a ripening mango, it more like a trap that has drained the resources of pakistan and poverty and terrorism in pakistan is on the rise because of army and the kashmir support as required by jinnah. There is no way that pakistan can progress if the kashmir issue is not dropped and the military cut back. India should not give up anything on kashmir till pakistan is fragmented.

#290 Posted by tahmed32,

These Capital punishments are the maximum in the absence of any mitigating circumstances. Some societies may decide to award the maximum punishments automatically for some particular offenses such as possession of drugs in Singapore. Saudia too awards mandatory capital punishment for drugs and murder, but not for any other stuff. Taliban however were awarding Capital punishments for most offenses which was the result of turmoil of the revolution and would have mellowed with time. China too was doing the same till just a decade ago with executions running into hundreds of thousands a year even for petty crimes like corruption and theft.

Goldfinger, just after my post I came across this news item, from dawn of today. Take some time to reflect on the causes, it is not a contest between india and pakistan, it is a question of avoiding the insane killings, sorry, to you it may not be insane, but to many who criticse pakistan and whom you call cockroaches, this is insane. You can contribute to end this insanity be first criticising it, and then taking some responsibilit to stop it by not blaming the indians for it.

Boy confesses to suicide attack training



By Mudassir Raja


RAWALPINDI, Feb 16: A teenager arrested for his role in the murder of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto admitted in his statement before a special judicial magistrate here on Saturday that he had got training for carrying out suicide bombing and was ready to blow himself up.

Aitzaz Shah said in his statement before Magistrate Chaudhry Toufiq Ahmed that he was a Hafiz-i-Quran and studied at a madressah in his native Mansehra city. According to sources, the boy said he had developed fascination with Jihad in Karachi and gone to Waziristan to get training as a suicide bomber.

Re: # 303 mr. J you have strong brains. Many times we do not talk about under belley wounds try to hide.
It is true it is one of last left agenda to be finished. Yes all pakistanis have swore to liberate Kashmir as their national goal which also idealogical goal of liberating source of Indus and future to snatch rabi bias and satlej from india as it is god given right and water always flows as mighty all intended and no mortals can change that. Presidet and ex chief of army was student at military school in england or london and he wrote thesis for his military school and thesis was rivers of pakistan coming from india including ravi , bias and satlej. So he warned openly India not to play with fire as if indians start any damage sui gas fields / high dams of Tarbella and mangala/ sukkar barrage he will use nuclear weapons on india and india will will be history ( major cities). Thankfully mr. Wajpai understood and never made attempt to attach high dams, As if even sluice gates or power stations or generators are damaged will lead devastating situation with blow to agricuture and power. So waether you like or not pakistani people are not dead people but they grown on tigers milk and after loss East wing it emmerged even stronger and with armed nuclear assets much better than India. So struggle for kashmir is eternal. Pakistan as army state has spent and gambled too much on Kashmir assets and and will go at any length to defend the interests and waters of pakistani rivers in India and if you start building dams will lead to nuclear war. Presently all thsese is secondary as americans are at gate and sitting on head and forcing wot agenda but once this gorrilla comes down then army can pay attention to Indian problems and south and east front. Kashmir is like ripening mango and its waiting game and when raed just little push and will come tumbling on ground. Now indians are making things are in ground detrimental to soliderity of pakistani brothers and kashmiri brothers like building wuller barrage and power generation. As then kashmiri interests and pakistani do not coincide. Most important is to keep pakistan united so all can fight aginst india. So this balkanization and spittist tendencies must be crushed as China did and nationalist of ethinicity should understand gas is not baloach but pakistani. This great drama on south asia taking place is amazing by all standards and army boss president is defending democracy against problem makers. Now please do not belives numbers given to MQM. Mqm will do better as it is well organised and anti terrorist , moderate and they know blood is thicker than water. It is ok to have adulterated food but keep blood pure and ethinic unity of Mohajirs. All opponents of MQM are thugs and Unaka muh kala. I am tired of people attacking MQM.
Please help to prserve peace by peaceful nagotation and transferring K Valley to india and you can that jammu and ladakh etc its damn useless land. If Kashmir is not solved your cement can be cut and no import from india no passage way to central asia or afghanistan, no iranian gas, you can buy at higher rate and india will reduce with all people burning tires for heat. Please make people aware of solve kashmir or face superior nuclear armed rocket forces. Choice is indian also Army will like to deafeat some big group of army and force them to sing humilating kashmir departure and back stabbing in E Pakistan will avenged. Good day to ou and all indians also and all others

#304 Posted by Goldfinger on February 16, 2008 6:14:15 pm

HAHA...paki inbred retard ko mirchi lagi...

Goldfinger,

No one will care about pakistan the land of the pure if the people of pakistan had enjoyed their gifts of nature and the supreme governance.

No cockroach will care if the pakistanis were not sending terrorists the world over o kill and maim kafirs in the name of a book and as ordered by the father of their nation. It is remarkable that the jihaic training centres are in pakistan and not in saudi which is the home of islam to the world.

Clearly the hatred for other religions caming out of the pours of every pakistani is not found in any other islamic country, it is a new brand, the TNT - islam and the global terrorism has increased many fold and the children of TNT have come of age. It has to be noted that the suicide bombers so far, found in pakistan are less than 20. It clearly takes a generational change to fully poison the minds with TNT, muslims cannot live with people of other religions for which pakistan was created.

Re: # 304
Well arjun ,jayp and people like YLH bring fun and carvinal true spirit. You learn from many and can also learn not to learn . What this news paper without fun. You know its all Lafangebazi to impress ypur women folk with name of yours.I hope people write about stocks , Kse , many are making lots of money, allother is not so good. Any way please do not complain person like me spend hours to write I do not like to tharshed. I wish you good day and vote for MQM and help to add stability. All others are chors or scvengers, good luck.

I have finally come to one conclusion, as some one once said somewhere else, "with the sudden clarity of a man too long deceived, I understand the whole ghastly trick..." regarding the partisan posts of all the rabid Indians here, people like jayp, mohar11, Arjun or their other cousins, that these people have multiplied like cockroaches to the tune of a billion. Then like those ugly pests they have scampered away to all the corners of the world where now they occupy dark, ugly, smelly cubby holes, sitting in front of computers (as computer operators) doing dirty work that no white man or woman wants to do, from where as befits their character they spew out all this venomous vitriole and poke their cockroach whiskers into other people's business. On top of all that, most are inebbriated by copiously drinking liquid discharges from the nether regions of sundry humans/animals. Their own country befittingly is a dung heap, with appalling poverty and mayhem against the minorities. People sleep on rail road tracks, and it's a pathetic site to watch the daily morning ritual of millions of those rail road inhabitors performing their defecation ritual like musical chorus in full public view day in and day out. These wannabe Angraiz people actually are dark, under-nourished runts, no wonder that so many conquerors from the north subjugated and conquered them. But then we still must celebrate this diversty, nothing wrong with it, however let it be said from someone who has seen both sides of the coin, that despite all its present self created woes, Pakistan is still way better to be in than the stinky dung heap that is India!

Ahmed madani,

From dawn of staurday,. YLH read and understand Jinnah.

declaring India as an enemy country was done by Jinnah, and that is consistent with his idea of TNT that muslims cannot live with people of other religions.

One glaring example of this can be seen from one of the two hoardings placed at the first roundabout on Shahrah-i- Qaideen, just past the periphery of Mr Jinnah’s mausoleum. As shown in its photograph, it has the colours of the Pakistan flag and carries a saying of the Quaid in Urdu, which may be translated as: “From the political and military standpoints, Kashmir is the jugular vein of Pakistan. No independent country and nation can tolerate the handing over of its jugular vein to the enemy.”

Madani saab,
I do agree, especially that kashmir day is recently celebrated in pakistan that kashmir should be come part of pakistan.

That will ensure that the kashmiri muslims are attacked from helicopter gunships, rapists are let go like in the mauktaran mai case, and the women are subjected to hoodood ordinance.

I do agree that all of the above are islamic values consistant with the TNT version practiced in pakistan.

It is inconceivable that the any good pakistani would want any other human to be subjected to the misery that is pakistan, well then it was only the jinnah who said that kashmir is the jugular vein of pakistan.

What the jihadis are doing in kashmir is consistent with what jinnha said. It is sad that the man is dead so long ago, and the pakis are mixing the most violent aspects of islam and TNT to create a terror central in this world.

Re: # 299 forget all stuff and burden of history new pakistan is taking birth fortified with democracy, thank fate you were alive to see that moment and bost later when old to your people of being part of democracy birth. Any birth is violent and lots of pain and blood spilling, same now. Some problems but agreat advance by first muslim atomic power to get 1st democracy in land of believers.

Re: # 293 Raw_Dust

'...remember General Tikka Khan? ...'

Never mind! Tahmed32 is not the type to rationally sift through the facts

Re: # 294 Mr. Jayp things are improoving and things are moving in proper direction. Elections is very Important and all usa and foren news people taking very seeriously.
President has done good to warm people to accept election results and no rioting by loosing parties. Some time ago YLH wrote article saying general will last ruling general. All people are hearing morning of democracy and modern more better more moderate and more reformed Pakistan and democratic pakistan leading muslim Ummah towards democracy and islamic princicles of ging equalirty and NO CASTE like hindus. All muslims are together in brotherhood and sisterhood and helpful maeciful towards poor and handicapped people. It is good general is and will the guardian and protector of new emerging democrscy. Also he has warned people to "behave" themselves as if they try to disregard peoples verdict they will be dealt harshly. You need decipline for democray to help poor and oppressed.
It good time for GOI to deal with new emerging first muslim democracy by giving back part of kashmir and india will be far better can spend money on poor, oppressed muslims, sikhs and christian and oppressed handicapped people, oppressed women who are denied human rights and houses and water for poor people of india. It good time to make deal with new govt which will dear to usa who want kashmir problem closed for all times. Make concesssions now and earn good will of Pakistani people. They can export stuff to paskistsn snd we can export food , cement as poor people of india had nothing but just hindu gods to worshipp.
It is time make deal, handver Kashmir, take jammu and Ladakh as those are nonmuslims and guess they may not be interested in joining pakistan.
Things are going fine.
Usa is struck up and has to put money if she wants all stuff , brought in country.
good day, morning , ok bye

Re: # 291 Tahmed

You are presumptuous enough to assume that (i) I am male, (ii) I am Hindu, (iii) my comments were about Pakistan

By trying to focus on a nick, you are avoiding the main issue, or by deflecting focus on Modi/Advani. Nice try, but it doesn't work. Let me tell you why: this is not the substance of the matter:)

Re: # 295 Who told you 5000 tourists/ year ?
It is wrong information. It may be 5000/ per day.

mmmmkay....

Shujaat vows to reverse US-driven policy

Pervaiz predicts landslide victory
ASIF MEHMOOD
LONDON - President PML-Q Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain has said that he had disagreed with a series of major decisions taken by Musharraf’s government over the past five years.
In an interview with the British newspaper The Telegraph, Shujaat said that he would reverse Musharraf’s US-driven policy by seeking a political solution to a conflict in the tribal area of Waziristan, where the army is battling militants linked to the Taliban and al-Qaeda.
He said: “We believe that politics rather than force will resolve the issue and it is the only answer.” Shujaat was very careful not to criticise Musharraf directly, saying that he had “done his level best” at a time when President George W Bush had been “very aggressive” in coercing Pakistan to support the US-led war on terror.
He also termed last year’s massacre when commandos stormed Islamabad’s radical Red Mosque, killing more than 100 militants and students including girls, “a mistake from the administration.

Here is an interesting statistics.

All through 2007, 5000 tourists came to pakistan. That is a true reflection of the global perception of pakistan, and this election will not change that.

It is that dead dog which is preventing any one from visiting pakistan.

Terror perceptions

When a suicide attack takes place in pakistn it is considered as an internal problem, part of the pak society values and no one in the world identifies it as a terror attack. So many times, Mushy claims that pakistan is also a victim of terrorism and no one cares. The reason is simple, whether it is the UK bombings, spanish and you name it it is all traced to pakistan.

This view is further reinforced by the recent developments. Pakistan arrests so called terrorists and they inturn capture a few soldiers and there is apece talks and all terrorists are released.

It is this mind set that is propelling the pakistanis to carry out attackes all over the world. They do believe that if a few bomb attacks are carried out , all the pak terrorists will be released and it is considered normal.

That is why teh terrorists released after the indian hijacking were hailed as heros by the pakistanis.

The intire notion of terrorism within pakistan is absurd, it is just a normal day for the pakis. See the posts of zeemax and urtruly which consistantly reflect this belief system.

#291:"and we dont make national leaders out of criminals like modi and advani"

err.. remember General Tikka Khan? He was appointed as the Governor of Punjab in late 80s.

hamidm: sorry to have interfered with your determined efforts to paint Islam as being the one defined by criminals. rest assured that sharia laws will never touch you - you are too well off and well-connected for that in Pakistan. it is only the poor abduls who suffer - and we all know they dont count since, as the nice young lady from a rich family notes in the Pickwick Papers, she understands that the poor dont get hurt when they are whipped and that the poor are immune to the cold when they sleep on the street in the UK winter.

ps: note the sarcasm dripping in this last sentence.

pepe le peu #289: Spare me your posts - Like I told you before, I have no interest in wasting time with an individual like you who tries to glorify himself by adopting the name of a respected research organization as his nick. Are you ashamed of your real name, or too cowardly too put your name to what you write?

as for your comments on pakistan and muslims generally - these are typical of the hypocrisy that too many hindus suffer from whereby they take on airs of being from an enlightened society when in fact hindu society is riddled with jehaliyat that exceeds anything found in Pakistan. At least we dont burn minorities in Pakistan, and we dont make national leaders out of criminals like modi and advani (the brave hindu warrior who led the attack to destroy the place of worship of a minority religion). So, buzz off.

zeemax #267 So it seems we agree that beheadings and hangings are not "Islamic justice" - and this renders the Taliban and Saudis in violation of Quranic injunctions (where mercy for the convicted and repentent is enjoined).

This by no means negates the importance of the rule of law. On the contrary, it means that no man should be considered above the law. And those doing the worst offenses against society (e.g. overthrow of the rule of law itself through abuse of the powers a nation places in its generals) are in fact deserving of the worst punishment. While those committing lesser crimes (e.g. theft of food or some cash by a poor man) deserve lighter punishments or even help.

This then begs the question - through what process does a society decide that a given punishment fits the crime? And the answer is simple - the democratic process.

What is passed as "sharia law" is the opposite of the democratic process (being created by Qazis appointed by kings) and thus have resulted in pure evil in the form of oppression of those already oppressed (women of poor families) while the rich and powerful literally get away with murder, theft and other crimes.

And that is why I maintain that the most vocal "muslims" are the worst offenders against Islam, since they portray their evil and unIslamic deeds as being Islamic!!

Re: # 260 Tahmed32

"...my friend from parachinar ... told me how the shia-sunni shooting starts every spring..."

This is not unique to Parachinar, but is endemic throughout the Muslim world and has been going on since Karbala (~1400 years ago) in the religion of 'peace' with the latest evidence of such savagery in Iraq. Deeds matter more than words. It is not simply a matter of 'Beheadings and hangings are the religion of the kafirs who have given our beautiful religion a bad name with their vicious, criminal acts'. This is a 1400 hundred year old tradition with no end in sight.

Think about it - deeds, not words, matter.

Re: # 286

abay chuttar, correct count is 40 not 38, then again are u celebrating or just keeping count?

Re: # 284

Typical peeli diwar response.

ek aur gaya....38 now..

#277 Posted by bulleya on February 16, 2008 10:02:50 am


isn't it better for pakistan to behave like spain



spain was a willing partner..

pakiland was forced to grease up and bend over...

see the difference?


first, you support massive violence agaisnt certain groups


Is this the same capt clueless who was threatening to sic the jihadis on india thinking pakiland would be in uncle sam's good books and uncle sam would turn a blind eye?

rf786 "There is no plot, period. America wants change and Obama is being hailed as the source of change"

your naivity is unbelievable!

Re: # 280

Qibla aap painda he rahey. Dissing other viewpoints without providing some rationale argument shows your inability to respond. By the way, given the noise and rubbish being thrown around, Bholay Shah mazar is not a bad idea.

#279 Posted by anil,

... and the fishmeal I mentioned in the atlantic from the indian 747, and the Pakistan Army which has lost more soldiers after Lal Masjid than USA in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

How many people still cheer Lal Masjid?

Re: # 277

bulleya

Some questions arise from your post:

1) If not violent means then what else will solve this problem?

2) Why do people like u still believe this is not Pakistan's war? How many more Pakistani have to be killed before it becomes our war?

3) Why this complete subservience towards people who use religion as their slogan?

#278 Posted by rf786 bhayya,

Aap phir bhayya hi rahey. If you think large countries are run without intrigues, you should go and sit on the mazar of Bholey Shah!

Hamidm Sahib:

Golden Temple was a mistake. Indira Gandhi paid for it with her life, and India paid a very heavy price. One of my friends, a very successful executive in Delhi, told me that prior to it, at the airport people will look upto him and salute at the security, after Golden Temple / Indira Gandhi episodes, airport security they look at his turban and beard and did extra check. I tried to console him that beauty is in the eyes of beholder. I had to tell him of my experience that whenever I would go through the security with white colleagues, security will hold their bag - especially if a white female went with me - dust it off, another will escort him / her off to the other side. While poor I, who always travelled light, will have to leave my newspaper with them, as they want to screen it too, as if it was porn material.

I am happy for my friend that turbans, and beards (I did not know about the shaven side under the belly, till you cleared it for me) of different type soon arrived to replace him.

Re: # 276

Knowing your modus operandi its no surprise that u look for plots and conspiracy theories in everything.

There is no plot, period. America wants change and Obama is being hailed as the source of change. Now some people may not appreciate his young age or skin color but the fact is he is the most sought after and popular leader in this entire campaign. Certainly not the only supporter but probably one of the biggest, Wall Street has also put their weight behind Obama which has made a big difference when it comes to finances.

hamidm mian#: "the death count is up to 37 and nobody cares .... as a matter of fact i just got off the phone with somone in pakistan and they don't even know about it (or care) ....."

you are truly a strange person.....i used to write off your comments as an attempt at being funny.....but i think, now, one has to take them seriously, as they are the cause of a lot of violence.....

first, you support massive violence agaisnt certain groups.....knowing fully well that there will be reprecussions....if you don't know, then many of us have tried to analyse it for you......

then when counter-violence occurs, you attempt to use that to encourage more violence.....the result of this cycle and your theories should be obvious to you, after seeing what happened in iraq.......

yet you continue to support this for pakistan......can you explain why things will be different in pakistan from iraq, if pakistan continues to bomb places in usa's gwot.......

is there any way any country can control suicide bombers....spain had one bomb blast, and it resulted in the govt. changing and spain pulling out of iraq......

why in the world should pakistan stay involved in the usa's gwot, when it is resulting in so much violence in pakistan.......isn't it better for pakistan to behave like spain......considering the fact that after spain has pulled out, it hasn't faced a single bombing......

this cycle is simply going to get more and more intense, until pakistan turns into iraq.......i suppose you will then move on to the next country.....

...since you have no intention of ever doing anything in or for pakistan, why don't you simply enjoy yourself in michigan........you are not willing to participate in any war, yet you are so enthusiastic about violence.......

#272 Posted by masadi,

Actually I still haven't figured out whom exactly is propelling this idiot Obama who isn't qualified enough to be a high-school headboy let alone the President of USA.

Certainly it's some sinister plot in the background. What is it Masadi?

#273 Posted by hamidm2,

.... you are just as bad, if not worse, than rabid jihadis like zeemax

Coming from you, that's a compliment. Thank You!

.... otherwise they will hang us both ....

I had promised to save you from the guillotines if you take me to the mile strip. As for tahmed32, he's the sage of Chowk even though always wrong! That doesn't deserve punishment. You do. But I will accept a bribe from you!

Re: # 271

leadenwinter,

.... so what else is new ?

tahmed,

"Beheadings and hangings are the religion of the kafirs who have given our beautiful religion a bad name with their vicious, criminal acts." .....

sigh! .... as long as people like you continue to live in denial we cannot fix the problem .... you are just as bad, if not worse, than rabid jihadis like zeemax and urstruly ...... look tahmed, you and i need to get together on this - we have to confront this insidious idelology, warts and all .... otherwise they will hang us both ....

Zeemax writes "but tell me masadi, will the peons of the white man be now enslaved to the black man if obama wins?"

Zeemax my friend, you should know better. When the brown man with the dog ugly face was "in command" of Pakistan, did the white man lose his rule over the country? If what the white man did here wasn't so tragic for our folk, I'd say my answer was a slam dunk, a check mate and pack up and go home kind of reply.

What you are doing is confusing the political establishment in the US with "the white man's rule". It is not his rule, it is merely a tool....now the poetry of that aside, the institutional vetting process is such that populism matters little in victory or defeat, rather what matters is how well he/she can deliver...and that his skin tone is some shades lighter and more like the white man than the average African America...read Domhoff "Who rules America"- a social/scientific study unlike the feel good old wives tales (befitting tahmed's brain).

It'll all in end in tears this election business .. I'm pretty sure theres going to be a civil war ..

freedom fighter operation death toll up to 37...somebody think of the root cause!!

Suicide attack on PPP rally kills 37 in Parachinar PARACHINAR, Pakistan, Feb 16 (AFP) A suicide car bomber struck a Pakistan People’s Party rally in the northwestern tribal town of Parachinar Saturday, killing 37 people. “It was a suicide attack, there were people outside the candidate's house and they were waiting for food when this man attacked,” interior minister Hamid Nawaz told AFP. “It is a very unfortunate incident. Maximum security measures are in place for the 17th and 18th (of February) and the campaign is going to end tonight,” he added. Thirty-seven people were killed and 93 wounded in the blast, interior ministry spokesman Brigadier Javed Cheema said, adding: “It was a vehicle-borne suicide attack.” Security officials earlier told AFP that the suicide bomber attacked a Pakistan People's Party meeting outside the office of local candidate Riaz Shah. Shah's family said he was safe. “A man with long hair drove a car into the crowd and blew himself up. There were bodies and blood everywhere,” a witness told AFP. Police in the southern city of Hyderabad meanwhile said they had arrested a suspected militant equipped with a suicide jacket and explosives who was planning an attack during the polls. Some 81,000 army and paramilitary soldiers have fanned out across the country to maintain peace and security during the election, chief military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas said. Qaiser Tareen, commander of the paramilitary Punjab Rangers, said troops have been ordered to “shoot on sight” those who try to hamper the voting or disrupt peace on election day. (First Posted @ 17:15 PST Updated @ 20:28 PST)

...beti version ate up part of the post ...

Read as follows:

But, at the same time I would like to ask you why China lines up convicts after an hour long trial and shoots them in the back of the head and sends the bill for that bullet's cost to the criminals' next of kin?

#242 Posted by ana on February 16, 2008 6:40:51 am


"freedom" fighters. These suicide bombers/murderers, innko freedom se kya vasta hai?


Nothing..
It was a suggested Dawn headline..like the one they had a few years ago about killings in indian kashmir "freedom fighters kill 7 of marriage party"

#266 Posted by tahmed32,

Sure. I don't believe in such harsh punishments either. Would you rather jail them? I would, if there was a proper justice system and they wouldn't go scot free in a week.

But, at the same time I would like to ask them in the back of the head after an hour long trial and sends the bill for that bullet's cost to the criminals' next of kin?

zeemax: I checked #230. This is what you had to say about the article: "Taliban were hanging highwaymen by lamp posts during their regime. Beheading them in Wana and stuffing currency notes down their severed throats - and recently, fought off the criminal gangs in Darra Adam Khel and kicked them out of tribal areas for good."

Beheadings and hangings are the religion of the kafirs who have given our beautiful religion a bad name with their vicious, criminal acts. This is not the religion of the average Pakistani. This is exactly the point the article was making Muslims with faith in God are not intimidated by these scoundrels in beards.

#262 Posted by ana,

I wish you would continue interacting with me so I could peel off the layers of rust from your brain bit by bit, let alone from your bimbo ass.

Does the choice of weapons determine who's a freedom fighter and who is not?

fakirippi: the day you have a mosque where the mullahs are not quarelling with one another for control, the day you have "muslims" able to go to a mosque without fear of being blown up by other "muslims", the day a maulvi picks a jharoo and cleans the streets rather than ranting cheap rants over the microphone, the day muslims start following Quranic injunctions concerning who has authority on issues of religion and the day muslims start following Quranic injunctions concerning respect for other faiths (I could go on about violations of the Quran by "muslims") - that day you can start talking about murtids. Till that day - every damned muslim who violates the Quran and issues threats (as you just did to hamidm) is a damned murtid who will rot in hell. Inshallah.

#256 Posted by tahmed32,

I told you already. Didn't read it? Post #230.

Zeemax,

This is the last time I will be interacting with you. (You're welcome) So listen carefully. I was expressing my opinion by questioning the relation of the word "freedom" in the word freedom fighters to suicide bombers. I do believe that suicide bombers are murderers. And I have said that about anyone who kills regardless of religion or ethnicity. I am free to express my opinion, just as you are free to express what you always do. I do not call you a maadarchod for doing so. So patronize me all you want, by referring to my bimbohood, it really is no skin off my nose, and it just makes you look bad. And yes, zeemax, I do know something of what is going on in Pakistan. I am not completely cut off from it as much as you and your ilk would like to cut me out from it.

Now baraye meh'rbaani do not interact with me again. Good luck.

i think iss kay khusar kay mohallay main dhamaka hooa hai

#253 30 years ago, my friend from parachinar (whose father was a big shot shia leader since some ancestor had decided he was a direct descendant of the prophet) told me how the shia-sunni shooting starts every spring. Kind of a tribal version of the Easter Egg Roll.

saihooni lobby kay agent , we have to be very serious about these fifth columnists

bhai these murtids are very dumb , i dont know where is their religion.

#250 Posted by hamidm2,

No. Only perhaps for Murtids, which I support.

zeemax: so, what was wrong in that article I posted? (I am all ears for any new knowledge)

Re: # 253