Voting For Change

mad masadi,

.... one more thing: how come you are not thankful to the us elite for liberating the muslims of kosovo and giving them an independent state in europe ? ..... don't you think they deserve your gratitude ?

masadi: "Know that what we need is restructuring and a total overhaul of the current system which will involve an overthrow of the current powers that be and that, you can be damn sure, will not happen through voting or the lawyers making a noise."

Millions of Pakistanis have demonstrated that they dont agree with you. I will ignore, as usual, your personal insults.

Re: # 362

mad masadi,

... now you have really gone mad ! .... just listen to yourself:"It will ONLY happen through like I said the forcible taking of the guns from the military and an end to the occupation of Pakistan by the Pakistan Army (a foreign (US) occupation force)" ...........

.... get a grip on yourself and stop spouting this nonsense before they haul you off to tibi thana, hang you upside down and beat some sense into you ....... if i could do it myself, i would ..... maybe ylh can talk to some friends in gowalmandi ....

In #362 read "The "hidden hands" have assets and resources from which they can subvert popular movements" as

The "hidden hands" have assets and resources with which they can subvert popular movements

tahmed writes "But hidden hands can no more stop the national tide now built up towards restoration of the Pakistani people's rights than it can stop an ocean tide."

The drama queen is at it again, crown, dress, lipstick and all...The "hidden hands" have assets and resources from which they can subvert popular movements the likes of Mossadeq's Iranian resources for the Iraninan people(and the current elections were not a 'popular movement' of that calibre). Both these "winners" will fit into the structure prescribed for politicians by their superiors (the commanders of the Pakistan Army), and if they try moving out of line they will be brought straight back in. Was it not the same "alliance" that vowed to boycott the elections and then stumbled all over each other to get into it? Are you blind? The talk and bravado is just talk and the "hidden hands" with "made in USA" written all over them know that because of peons of the West, the cold-war neo-colonial structure of the "whore of the West" (aka Pakistan) will remain intact regardless of the voices of its people. Those very same "hidden hands" throw plenty of drama queens the likes of tahmed to distract the people. Know that what we need is restructuring and a total overhaul of the current system which will involve an overthrow of the current powers that be and that, you can be damn sure, will not happen through voting or the lawyers making a noise. It will ONLY happen through like I said the forcible taking of the guns from the military and an end to the occupation of Pakistan by the Pakistan Army (a foreign (US) occupation force).

Re: # 357
I hope that PML-N and PPP would work together for the democracy and stability in Pakistan but realistically speaking, both these parties are so different to get along for long.

First of all, I see in near future that PML-N and PPP would not get along, at the same time, PPP will be divided into further different factions, because if Zardari.

I think following would be happening:
1. The new parlianment would stay just over a year and then people will get fed up with these politicians yet again.
2. Musharraf will use 52-B to dissolve the parlianment.
3. New elections will be held where PML-Q will be the winner and we would have 5 more yrs of PML-Q and Musharraf.

Not that I want it, but this is my prediction according to what I see and my experience by looking in the history of Pakistan.

BB's death is symbolic. Ok.
NS had a very big majority in 1999. Yet he was overthrown. I pray and hope both NS and AZ measure up to it.

#358 Ijaz: Hidden hands can do damange and kill individuals no doubt.

But hidden hands can no more stop the national tide now built up towards restoration of the Pakistani people's rights than it can stop an ocean tide.

As for PPP and PML, let us pray that they continue down the path announced today. That is the best we as Pakistanis can do at this stage.

Re: # 356
Tahmed,
BB's death is not a tragedy at personal or family level. Most, it indicates a complicity of hidden hands that can subvert any process. Those who plotted her killing had an agenda to pursue, motives of which can only get stronger. For them it was least desirable to get a coalition in power that does not suit their interests.
Right now all channels are debating the new alliance and there appears a clear difference of modalities amongst the two camps. NS wants a bulwark approach while PPP prefers a parliamentary discourse. This is the faultline on which our politicians may yet again blunder.
God Help

further to #355: i just checked, and it seems the dice may indeed have stopped rolling..with NS and AZ announcing to a joint press conference their agreement to join hands in forming governments in the center and in provinces!!

If this agreement holds, then this may well be the greatest news to come out of Pakistan in a long, long time. For Pakistan as well as the broader region which can only benefit from a peaceful, secular, democratic Pakistan.

God bless Nawaz Sharif!
God bless Asif Zardari (I never though I would say this, and it still remains for him to prove he has learnt something in the years he spent in prison!!)

And God bless so many other Pakistanis I would never thought I would cheer: Those who stood firm on the Restoration of the Judiciary (Imran Khan, Qazi Hussain Ahmed); those who showed that Pakistanis are all united regardless of ethnicity, mqm notwithstanding(eg the former COAS Aslam Baig who also spoke out today in favor of PML/PPP).

God bless the Chief Justice who stood firm and showed that one man can indeed make a difference!!

And above all:

Pakistani Awam Zindabad for demonstrating their common sense and political maturity!!

#354 agreed that BB's death, a personal tragedy though it is, is nevertheless eclipsed by the far more important issue of how these elections translate into a switch in power.

In addition, this fascination with BB's death shows a lack of concern with the hundreds of other lives lost and injuries suffered by Pakistanis of less exalted stature than BB who also sacrificed for Pakistani freedom from military rule. At least BB's family has its enormous wealth, connections and power to fall back on. Other Pakistanis (those contemptuously referred to by hamidm as "unwashed") who paid similar blood sacrifices have left behind families that have the additional burden of economic hardship to face as well.

dost mittar: Thanks for pointing out your post #216 that I did indeed miss. It would indeed be heartening to see PPP join PML in the latter's stand. That is not just in the interest of Pakistanis I believe, but of interest to the west - a strong, stable, secular and accountable government in Pakistan would be in everyone's interest (except those pushing narrow personal agendas in the guise of the national interest or religion or ethnicity). However, I think the dice are still rolling, and we may well see mush pulling another (last?) trick by getting Zardari to team up with his quislings and/or mqm. In which case we could very well see all hell break loose (unless, for some reason, PML decides to back off from its calls for musharraf to be ousted from his illegal office).

On ANP: I dont think ANP was ever a strong supporter of the US attack on the taliban - who were after fellow pakhtoons and ANP is basically a regional party. So, rejection of MMA in fact represents the bad experience NWFP voters had with MMA past few years. The relevant question though is: Why ANP and why not PPP or PML? I leave it to those more tuned into NWFP politics than me to answer that question.

On sample surveys - it is of course not just a question of believing them, but of believing surveys that have been done using scientific survey methods by a part that is not involved.

In my opinion, BB's murder has written Zardari all over it.

Re: # 350
Ijaz sb,

The question should not be how BB got killed at this moment, the question should be who killed her. I think AZ and gov. did a good job on their part to change the focus of investigation from "Who Killed her" to "How she got killed" and we are more interested in that whether she is a "Shaheed" or not. Because most people think that if she is shot, she is a Shaheed, but if she hit her head on the escape hatch becaue of the explosion, she is not shaheed. How moronic !!!

ijaz:

Thanks.
Just heard on bbc that Nawaz and Zardari have agreed to form a coalition govt. If true, this is a change from Nawaz stand of supporting govt. from outside.

Just a correction. Read:
"Frame by frame shots indicate that she fell nano moments before the explosion took place".