Voting For Change

#508 Posted by MantoLives,

Yes that would be a better idea. It depends which way the independents swing. There're a lot of winning independents in PF.

... re being a communal party, I say it's the Pushtun counterpart of MQM in NWFP. Do you recall Hayat Khan Sherpao's murder and the Pushtun Students Federation involvement in it? And after the provincial government was dismissed over it by ZAB, the NAP calls for Pushtunistan?

I suggest you shouldn't be too enamored by their secular appeal. They're secular, yes, but they don't have any other principles either. They're just the land-owning and serf- master Verkotey Pukhtuns Khans of Charsadda/Mardan.

I think ANP should make a government together with PPP and PML-N in NWFP.

This way it will be a representative government and it will undo the old order.

#506 Posted by MantoLives,

PML(N) will not share power with PML(Q) anywhere. However, it is quite possible that PML(Q) liquidates completely in a few days/weeks and their MPAs join PML(N). I believe there's a very strong possibility of that because ANP is non-existent both in entire Hazara (as well as Western NWFP) where PML(N) dominates, and PML(Q) does not have any future except to sit in opposition with whatever they have left.

If ANP is allowed to form Government and rename the province 'Pukhtunkhwa', that will alienate the Hazarawaals/Hindkos as well as the Siraikis in the west who are a very significant poulation in NWFP.

Zeemax writes: "ANP is just a small communal party like MQM and shouldn't be in any sort of power."

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

The situation is analagous to Punjab after 1946 elections, where Muslim League had won the highest number of seats followed by the Congress.

1. Muslim League 75 seats
2. Congress 51 seats
3. Unionists 20 seats
4. Panthic Sikhs 23 seats
5. Miscellaneous 4 seats


Everyone wanted the Muslim League and the Congress to form a ministry together which would have been the end of the British backed Unionist Party.

In the end Congress cobbled together a coalition with the Unionists, Akalis and independents, thereby placing Muslim League and the Communists in the opposition.

Had this not happened, history would have been different.

If PPP as the second largest party in NWFP and largest party nationally, decides to ignore the resurgent ANP ... it will be making the same mistake as the Congress in Punjab in 1946.

For further reading, please go here: http://www.chowk.com/articles/12747

Zeemax,

That coalition can't work without PML-N's 5 seats. So if that has to work it must be Independents + PPP + PML-Q + PML-N + PPP(S) with only ANP in the opposition.

Is that possible? I don't know. I think it is a golden opportunity for us to bring the Pushtun nationalists in the fold of over all Pakistani nationalist discourse.

correction... #501

He said Independents + PPP + PML(Q) + PPP(S) will form the NWFP government. That sounds good.

ANP is just a small communal party like MQM and shouldn't be in any sort of power.

Dear Majumdar,

On Zulfikar Ali Bhutto... he was a more sophisticated western educated version of your favorite Nawaz Sharif. Just like Nawaz Sharif was created by the establishment under Zia and the ISI later on, Bhutto was essentially Iskandar Mirza and Ayub Khan's man.

Just like Nawaz Sharif would do so against the great Benazir Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto played an important role for the establishment against Fatima Jinnah and the people's movement that had shaken the foundations of Ayubian military dictatorship. He was also instrumental in establishment's calculations against the coalition of Mujeeb Rahman's Awami League and Wali Khan's NAP.

After 1971, Pakistan's self identification as a "Muslim homeland" was put to test (though unjustifiably and I have written about it). Bhutto as a patriot Like Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto came in heavy with the Islamic ideology... using foreign policy tools and combining them with populist islamic rhetoric to achieve his own ends. His role in the apostasisation of the Ahmadi community (which I must point out was in the front ranks of the Pakistan movement) was not out of his personal conviction but was the result of political expediency. Bhutto was too keen a student of history to miss the Masadi-style Islamist tools used by the establishment in 1953 to bring down the Muslim League government ... he therefore went around the Mullahs, all the while thinking and promising Ahmadis in private that he would restore their status. He was not given that opportunity.

Masadi's claim that Bhutto was merely using the available tools is a lie. Jinnah - who Bhutto did not tire quoting or admiring- had clearly ruled out attempts by the Mullahs to declare Ahmadis Kafir going so far as to declare the entire effort a conspiracy against the Muslim people. It was because of this strong stance in favor of the Ahmadis that even the most of religious of Muslim League leaders, Khawaja Nazimuddn, refused to bow down to Mullah pressure.
Zulfikar Ali Bhutto himself had called this effort to declare Ahmadis Non-muslim a conspiracy against Islam. However, despite is great genius, Bhutto was a man of weak constitution and without scruples.

Had Bhutto had Jinnah's integrity and honesty ... he would have been probably one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century, but ultimately that was not to be. Bhutto's great genius was interrupted by his feudal background which constantly challenged his ability to work for the people.

That said, many politicians take that route. Their movements over time take a life of their own. PPP is one such thing ... Bhutto is a legendary figure, though always second to Jinnah even for the most devout of the Jiyalas, but he is no longer PPP's master signifier. PPP has become a national institution - no doubt exactly what Bhutto wanted it to be.

For political parties changing positions is not a new thing. Look at the Democrat and the Republican Parties. Today most rednecks vote for the Republican Party but it was this very party that fought the civil war and won it, emancipating the slaves in the process. Meanwhile the Democrat Party was the very party that dominated the South. It remained a party with primarily slave owner roots till the middle of the last century.

It was the democrat party which produced William Bryan Jennings... the one politician who won more nominations for president than anyone else in American history but never once won. William was also the person who was the greatest defender of Christian Fundamentalism and the hairbrained theory of "creationism" and was the lead counsel against Clarence Darrow in the Monkey trial of 1925.

Today it is unthinkable for a Democrat to think in those terms. So parties do evolve... without disowning their past. PPP can do the same.

Re: # 495 Tahmed

"It is the Chief Justice who has finally, after 60 years, inspired millions of Pakistanis with the ideals of respect for individual freedom, basic rights and democracy"

I agree - the CJ is the first person (other than Sheikh Mujib) in Pakistan who has the spunk to stand up for what he believes in and suffer the privation that was not his due.

The bumbling politicians, even as they make a virtue out of a necessity by forming a coalition, will still serve Pakistan better than the 'smart' uniformed men. This is a heavy burden that the ordinary Pakistani must be willing to lift.

#499 Posted by tahmed32,

Not so easy. Anwar Saifullah (who won two provincial seats as independent) has announced the Government will be independents plus MMA plus PML (Q). I guess the numbers add up when you see how many independents won there. Saifullahs are very powerful in NWFP. The other brother Humayun Saifullah won in N.A, third brother Salim Saifullah is a sitting Senator, and the fourth brother owns a large conglomerate including part of Mobilink and a submarine connectivity cable for Pakistan.

An example of Masadi's mature and academic response:

#485 Posted by masadi on February 22, 2008 9:32:32 pm
Majumdar, you're a fake, merely repeating what has been answered does not make it true. The army DID NOT dance to the tunes of ZAB, ZAB had to find his niche to operate within army rule just as politicians do today, the only difference was he altered the general discourse to make the people of this country part of the equation where they never were before and the "niche" became much wider due to that and the cirumstances that made the military weaker post creation of Bangladesh. If you don't understand these simple things about the Pakistan political structure, then you're not only a fake, you're an ignoramus who should keep out of any and every discussion about Pakistani politics

zeemax: That seems like a more likely story. I certainly hope mqm made gains in Karachi due to vote rigging, and not because karachiites actually think these ghoondas have anything to offer them.

On other news - ANP and PPP will form a coalition government in NWFP. This, on top of the unity of PML and PPP, is very good news for a strong, stable Pakistan.

Masadi mian,

Atleast try to be honest for once. I have given you detailed responses with sources and facts and you've always responded with abuse.

Now Majumdar has exposed you for all to see and you expect more than one liners from me? Have you no shame or moral constitution? Are you so utterly without a sense of balance and fairness? Show me one single post of yours which is an academic response or a logical argument.

manto the charlatan writes "As Majumdar has pointed out, Masadi has not been able to prove even a single point of his claims"

These stupid one-liners wont do. You are dealing with quite well educated grown up adults on this site and they can tell that each one of my arguments was a "slam dunk" case against your ad hominem bs directed towards zab. Now go __ yourself...

#494 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed32 YouTube is banned because of MQM rigging videos on it, and not because of any blasphemy. In case of SR it is Mulla ki dor masjid tak! He looks for blasphemy and enjoys it.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. But I've told SR of a way he can download the video he's looking for and save it on his local disc so he can have multiple orgasms watching it again and again!

skeptical #489: The Indian experience with democracy is a definite plus to the democracy movement in Pakistan too. What is unique about the democracy movement in Pakistan compared to other countries is I think its emphasis on the rule of law. This is no doubt the result of the fact that the driving force behind the current movement are those who best understand the importance of the rule of law to individual freedom - namely the lawyers. These are the true leaders of Pakistan today.

While Jinnah provided us with the land of Pakistan he did not leave behind any inspiring political direction - the motto of "unity, faith and discipline" fits an prison camp more than a free society. "Not India" may have been a great way for Jinnah to secure Pakistan, but it is not provide any direction after that. It is the Chief Justice who has finally, after 60 years, inspired millions of Pakistanis with the ideals of respect for individual freedom, basic rights and democracy.