Voting For Change

Well the people say he was not so.

We have to take the road to constitutionalism. The fact that the two major leaders are not elected will help in institution building. Its a wish and lets see how it materialises. Both have to rise above themselves. NS has shown it thus far and Zardari has to prove his worth. I have no doubts about Asfandyar. He will prove to be the best amongst them.

...the question arises, why in the world would ppp not want musharraf removed and judges restored.......what do they gain from not doing this.......

......the only thing i can think of are zardari/bb cases in switzerland, spain, uk and pakistan.......they were convicted in switzerland, already.......if these things start up again, then they will need musharraf's connections with western countries (specially usa) to help them out......

and if a free judicairy is installed in pakistan, it may try them, internally......

nawaz sharif, an equally if not more corrupt family than bhuttos, has already been punished and has served his time and lost some property.......hence he is scott free......all his cases were in pakistan......so he can afford a free judiciary......

so the back room deal would involve figuring out a method, with the help of nawaz, to ensure zardari is given indemnity.......after which musharraf would be out and judges would be back........

this is why, immediately, to put pressure on ppp, govt. has reopened the cases against zardari.....not only would these cases destroy him (which ppp walas won't mind), they could destroy the legacy of benazir (which would be doomsday for ppp).........

the two leaders who seem to talk the most sense at the moment (at least in my opinion).......asfandyar and shahbaz......

What we must realise and appreciate is that the next few months will be thorny despite the verdict of the people.

There will be a charade of misadventures and manipulations comme souvent with total apathy towards the verdict of the people. If it be so, will be very destabilising and damaging.

As I mentioned in post#19,
"Yesterday, I met a very close aide of the President and told him that the President stands to gain if he sticks to the verdict of the people. If he does not, then tough times are ahead.He looked me in the eyes as if I was an ignorant".

bulleya:

"there seems to be a great desire amongst our indian colleagues on this site, of all persuasions, to somehow convince themselves (and others) that islamic parties are still strong and islamisation is still on the roll in pakistan......."

I don't know if you were referring to my post where I said that this is not a result against islamists. I was only responding to those who were trumpeting it as a defeat of islamists; I could easily have said the opposite, namely, that this is not a result in favour of islamists because, in my opinion, islam was not an issue in this election.

Dost,
Islam is very much part of the national fabric. It cannot and should not be defeated.
It is a verdict against militancy and extremism and those who support it both from hidden and open quarters.
Cheerios

tahmed32:

I know that you do believe in sample surveys - the surveys which pointed out to Musharraf's unpopularity also showed the upopularity of his war on terror, which Pakistanis simply do not think is their war.

Here, let me narrate a personal anecodote. While passing through Khyber Pass, my wife and I were in the company of three pashtoons. This was after the 2002 elections in which anp was wiped out. I asked them which was the most popular party in NWFP; they said that it was unquestionably the anp; they are the only ones whom they considered as their own and who held their rallies in Pashto rather than Urdu. I asked them why then did they lose in the election? Their answer was that this was because they did not support the taleban. One of them said that the Sheikh (aka OBL) was so popular and the Americans so unpopular that they would have voted for you if you spoke against Bush.
This was way back in 2004. I don't think that the war has become any more popular since then; tha anp is now against the wot and has been voted back.

ijaz:

Are you saying that zeemax is wrong when he says that the govt. action against militants in lal masjid was a major factor in the defeat of Sheikh Rashid?

No I am not saying that, though girls at Jamia took his name in protecting Shamim.

Sheikh Rasheed enjoyed five wins in a row on NS ticket. This time he was on the other end. He was also the most watched face of the regime, seen day in day out chatting away on different channels. Like so many others, he earned the ire. In any case, he was never part of the cotorie and who bothered for fixing responsibility on him. He is from my constituency and I hated him. My reasons were certainly not Lal Masjid.

Also note that in this constituency, there are over 25,000 eligible Christian voters. As results show, they voted for NS and PPP. It was a national mood and cannot be focussed on a single point.

ijaz:

I never said that it was a single point but a general anger against Musharraf for a number of reasons, which I enumerated in an earlier post.

Ijaz, what do you think are Bush's options now? They were unhappy with Musharraf that he was not doing enough for wot; I cannot foresee any civilian govt. which would be as, let alone more pliant than him. They must be burning the midnight oil at the white house; I would love to be a fly on the wall on the west wing.

bulleya ji

"there seems to be a great desire amongst our indian colleagues on this site, of all persuasions, to somehow convince themselves (and others) that islamic parties are still strong and islamisation is still on the roll in pakistan......."

No, we want to be convinced that Jehadic TNT is going to be rolled back as a commonly accepted policy of persuasion against idolator lands.
We want to be sure that Pakistan has learnt its lesson in encouraging and cultivating Jehadic TNT and in the future would only be concerned with setting its own house in order.
For that we are watching how the mullahs are going to re-align themselves with PML and other political parties. So, we only want to see which mullah is attending which party meeting and how the mullahs are hobnobing with NS in order to push their nefarious agendas.
You need to watch it closely first because the mullahs are going to first get you!!

laddu:

Your fears are largely unfounded. I can guarantee that there is no support among Pakistanis for a jehad against idolators. To the extent that jihadis enjoyed support among them, it was for their support for militants in Kahsmir; they didn't mind if religious fervour was used to motivate an uprising against India in Kashmir.

laddu:

Your fears are largely unfounded. I can guarantee that there is no support among Pakistanis for a jehad against idolators. To the extent that jihadis enjoyed support among them, it was for their support for militants in Kahsmir; they didn't mind if religious fervour was used to motivate an uprising against India in Kashmir.

DM sahib,

(they didn't mind if religious fervour was used to motivate an uprising against India in Kashmir.)

So what you're saying is that Pakis are OK with jihadi violence as long as it is directed against the Hindoos. Precisely what Laddu mian wud want to hear!!!

Regards

Yet another false dawn and the poor pakistanis do not understand it. Who ever forms the govt, the following are sure to happen.

Mushy will continue to be the president.

Hoodood laws and blasphemy laws will not be changed.

The madrassas will continue to flourish with no control on what they teach.

Pak army budget will not be cut more than 5 percent of what si today.

There will be only occassional attack on the jihadis in the NWFP.

Osama will not be found by the pak army, at most a predator will find him.