Voting For Change

Re: # 47

Thanks for answering .

Let me summarize your views:-

- Kashmir - So we are back to UN resolution and re-affirmation of TNT and Kashmir as the "unfinished agenda" of partition ?
there is going to be very little support to kashmiri Jehadis in terms of money, arms and logistics??



-Jehad else where in the world would continue to be supported by PAkistan only on diplomatic forums??


- Suicide bombing and training to Jehadic groups would decline.

- Islamic Agenda in Pakistani polity will be greatly pushed back.

-Hudood & the demand for Shariat would be pushed back.

-Islamization of PAkistan would be put in reverse gear.

dash_dot# : " would venture forth and suggest you are being mesmerised by the superficial figures, and are a MNA numbers wonk. You however, do not seem to have time for the detail, where the devil is hidden."

....following are the seats won by religious parties, historically.......you can do you own math and analysis based on this.......these are out of 272 seats....these are for the main religious party jui(f) prevoius to 93......you can add a few odd seats or so for other religious parties

2008 - 3
2002 - 59
1993 - 3+
1990 - 6+
1988 - 7+

DashDot: It is not for one man to "give" national elections to a nation. So, dont credit musharraf for these elections being held - if he had his way, he would be crowned king of Pakistan.

Give the credit to the thousands and millions of your fellow countrymen - who have shown they are a free people, not slaves who tolerate kings and dictators (like arabs do, e.g.).

140% Turnout in Karachi

PPP and PMLN has demanded the results of Karachi to be canceled as up to 140% turnout has been reported at some polling stations. They said that the Karachi was held hostage under MQM and up to 65,000 votes were casted in areas where previously not more than 4,000 votes were casted earlier.

PMLN and PPP also said that they have collected proofs of rigging.

(http://pkpolitics.com/2008/02/20/140-turnout-in-karachi/)

zeemax: I have no doubt that mqm is a criminal organization that has the citizens of karachi in its grips. But the way to deal with them now is through judicial action - charging altaf on down for complicity in the murders of May 12.

PPP and PML should put the election behind them now - they have gained sufficient strength to take the country forward and will have only themselves to blame if they chose not to do so in the weeks and months and years ahead.

Re: # 52

zeemax whatis strange is that in many constituencies.....the winnergot lessthan 5000 votes, runner up got fewer ofcourse, the registered voters were in lakhs e.g 131666, the voter turnout was 131666 (100%). (see for example dawn website for the votes).

This must mean one of two things

(a) a number of despoiled ballots
(b) voters didnot know how to vote

Infact this kind of thing happen a lot in the NWFP seats.

hence my urging caution.....for I feel it is more of (a) rather than (b) for in the same seats in earlier elections (not only 2002, but before as well) this ratio was not there.

Re: # 53 PPP and PML should put the election behind them now - they have gained sufficient strength to take the country forward and will have only themselves to blame if they chose not to do so in the weeks and months and years ahead.

that is the test in front of them. A test which they should not fail.

But methinks that they are likely to fail....5 years is way too long for them to sit doing their thing.

Beena Sarwar's article is sooo pro Sharif. If you didn't know better, she would have you believe that N has come first in the parliament. That it is not PPP who have won less 20 some seats from N in the Punjab assembly, but N has come second in Sindh. Beena, try to respect readers.

Pakistanis have voted against:

- Bush's wot
- Mush's support of Bush's wot
- Mush's war on judiciary
- Mush's attack on Lal Masjid

It was not a vote against islamists and anyone who thinks so is living in the la-la land because:
- Islamisation, e.g., imposition of sharia, was not an issue in this election
- None of the so-called secular parties (not sure about anp, though!) have abolition of sharia courts, ahmadi laws or blasphemy laws, as part of their plateform;
- most of the islamic agenda in Pakistan, from objectives resolution to the attempt to pass hadood laws by Nawaz, was implemented by non-religious parties; and
- None of the so-called religious parties effectively opposed the policies of steady de-islamization (aka "moderate islam") pursued by Musharraf over the last eight years.

dm #57 So - the maulvis get routed in these elections, and you claim that this is a vote against Bush's wot and "not a vote against islamists".

This is like a man looking at a compass and saying that the needle is pointing south even while the needle points north. Please give some weight to common sense!!

in fact, Bush and co were not even on people's minds when they voted!! There was general resentment against musharraf's dictatorship plus other issues like general lawlessness and high prices. Even Musharraf himself noted that in his WSJ interview today.

All politics are local, dost mittar bhai and Pakistanis couldnt care less what happens outside their borders, let alone half way around the world.

Re: # 59
All politics are local, dost mittar bhai and Pakistanis couldnt care less what happens outside their borders, let alone half way around the world.

and yet you are coy, Tahmed32 sir, as why there was only 12% voting in NWFP and Baluchistan. A number lower than before. Also the great number of despoiled ballots in these two provinces?

Donot get me wrong. It is great to see such and event pass of peacefully, and I do congratulate the people of country for this.

But I would suggest that you need to see the picture (voting patterns) rather than seat numbers. And the picture can result in some rather disturbing conclusions. The seat numbers game is a game of the plains-elite. Coming from a committed marxian like yourself, I find this strange!

Beena is totally wrong in her assertions. We should give credit to Musharraf for holding free, fair, transparent and peaceful elections in these scenarios. You can point out some rigging in elections, but comparing to the history of elections in Pakistan, these election were as free as compared to 1970 elections.

i agree that Army intervened in 1999, because of the dictatorship of NS and we all distributed sweets and chanting Go Sharif Go at that time. Same is happeinig again, but against Musharraf now.

What about getting chance 2 times each by BB and NS. Their own elected presidents broke the parlianment and their gov. didn't even last for 2 yrs. If these political thugs cannot run the affairs of the country and democracy, then they got to blame themselves.

thamed saheb:

I tried to respons to your post #58 twice but the cyberspace eats it up. Will try later.

#59 Posted by tahmed32,

I'm quite surprised DM knows the pulse of Pakistan better than you. Sorry tahmed, but you have no clue of the main issues in this election.

This was a vote against Lal Masjid operation (Sh. Rashid lost solely because of that in 'Pindi and no other reason), assault at the judiciary, the Waziristan action resulting in an equal backlash, and inflation - in that order.

Remember, all the above mishaps happened in just one year of musharraf's rule i.e. 2007 out of eighty years, while people were quite happy with him since 1999.

Re the religious parties, they lost credibility because they promised people with an Islamic 'welfare' state - the emphasis is on 'Welfare State' - and not 'Islamic' or whatever. The crux is 'welfare'.

This is the agenda which Nawaz Sharif has maintained, and which has brought him back to the top because he had delivered before.

Of-course blind loyalty to Bush's GWOT is held responsible for all of musharraf's (mis)deeds, and hence sympathy for the militants of FATA amongst the general populace.

... eight years ... not 'eighty'.