Pakistan, a Different Country!

zeemax #326 NS is right in saying the new government should not take oath under an illegal president. There was talk of sending the president on an umra so he is not around and a stand-in administers the oath. What a mess!! This constitutional crisis must be causing the country incredible direct and indirect economic losses every day. And all because one stupid man thought he could actually continue to be military dictator for life!!

Masadi:
here, unlike your prejudiced writings blaming the victims, here is a real study with hard data http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-sikand090206.htm

Ans: Nobody denies data. But, there was no research/study conducted on this topic to identify, why it is such.

NHK & Zeemax,
thanks but I still have a hunch abt him.

Zee sahib,

(What had these women done in the first place other than picking up some hookers and giving them a few lectures?)

To tell you the truth the modus operandi of the girls in JH was very much reminiscent of the Gandhian satyagrahis (although you will probably throw at fit at comparing them with Gandhians) maybe slightly rougher tactics were used.

What was done to them was incomparably more inhuman.

Regards

To Masadi:

From the article:-
According to this respondent, in Rajasthan only 38 Muslims have been appointed under the OBC category, although it is possible that some OBC Muslims have been selected in the general quota as well.
Ans: So, muslims don't want to compete with the other OBCs also!!! Man you are getting some protective quota. That is also not sufficient?
India is not rich like UK. It will provide you uncontrolled breeding and raise population share. Thats it.
If you are not able to benefit from OBC quota, then you don't deserve it.

The author of the article has selected states like Gujrat, Bihar, UP, MP and Rajasthan. These states has very high dalit population and most of the welfare schemes are meant for dalits (though still not sufficient for them. More needs to be done).

#335 Posted by ijaz_gul

What is Zardari up to?

He's got his balls in a squeeze by NS. There's a great article by Moeed Yousuf in the current issue of Friday Times which gives a complete picture of how NS trapped him where he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

#334 Posted by akcheema,

Zeemax, all jokes aside, is that really the Pakistan you wish to be living in?

This question itself is loaded with kanjarpana and shamimism. What had these women done in the first place other than picking up some hookers and giving them a few lectures? The same kanjar police is arresting the same chinese hookers now after a thousand faujis got blown up and still keep getting blown up regularly.

I wouldn't have a problem at all. It's you who'll have a problem. But then it's not your country ... you have adopted the aussie kanjaristan as your home, right?

So don't worry your little head with Pakistan. Pakistanis will decide its direction, and not vilayati plate-pissing 'Overseas' Pakistanis (generally speaking of-course ... no one in particular).

Re: # 184
need to be exorcised from your land instead of blaming the Muslims for what you did to them as a consequence of the partition...


Ans: We have not kept muslims uneducated in Afghanisthan, Pakisthan. Why is the literacy rate damn low in these countries?

Islam was a factor in educating the Arabs and freeing them from superstition, the Hindu mythologies that have kept your kind in the gutter...

Ans: That we know. The recent PEW survey shows that in USA Hindus and Jews are most wealthy and educated religious group. I have found similar result in UK also. And Arabs and moslems are most educated people on the face of earth.

Re: # 184
I have read this article. I am not seeing anything, which amounts to discrimination.
One of the most stupid points...
Muslims don't want co-education, so Govt. has to change rule to make it look like mediaval arab? Then this guy will claim, Govt. sponsored schools should relax school uniform rule, such that moslem girls can attend school using Burqa and moslem boys with cap, 3/4 pyjama and long shirt?
Every state has it's own culture (Indian states are devidided on linguistic/cultural basis) and the school text books generaly reflect that. So, the education department has to write text book such that instead of "Ram pluck a mango from tree" to " Al-Bin-Murtaja .... is trying to kill a camel"?


Institutional discrimination implies that the life chances offered to you are restricted from the get go, even when you struggle past one rung the other one is blocked to filter out your kind, the individual does not have to explicitly state why the other person is being disallowed, the institution is structured this way.

Which institution is stuctured that way?
Electricity Boards are not even sparing farmers due to open economy. So, the power loom weavers are not getting free power is cause of concern!!!
I know, Govt. of India even sponsores Madrasseh and allows muslims establish institutions with violating all syllabus norm.

# 335

dear Ijaz

``Dear Chowkies,
What is Zardari up to? ''

Zardari has emerged as the most astutute politicians so far. He has said all the right things & made all the right moves.

He wants to take `all along' because only then two third majority can come. He has expressed his willingness to work with Musharraf because he knows first step is to get into the parliament, built two third majority & then screw Musharraf. He does not want to alert the snake beforehand by the empty aggressive bluster.

He is for the Provincial Autonomy, restoration of 1973 Constitution & indepependence of judiciary. On the Judiciary, he is presently low key because of Musharraf factor.

His best performance was with Karan Thapar on India-Pak issue. He said leave Kashmir for next generation until everyone grows up. And trade/relations should not be kept hostage until Kasmir solution.

He speaks confidently, has a sense of humour & is not interested in becomining PM. Being head of PPP is good enough for him.

100 % marks to Zardari. So what if he has made around a billion or so. All his past misdeeds are exonerated.

regards

NHK

hellfires: check
pakis bombing militants: check
militants blowing up pakis: check
paki army greasing up and bending over: check

so how's it a new country?


Major offensive against militants ‘planned’



By Anwar Iqbal


WASHINGTON, March 2: Pakistan is planning a major military offensive against suspected Taliban and Al Qaeda bases in the tribal areas, diplomatic sources in Washington told Dawn.

The sources said that the decision to go after the militants followed a recent increase in terrorist attacks in the country. The terrorists were unusually silent during and immediately after the national elections but have carried out several major attacks recently, killing more than 100 people in three days.

The sources said that while the United States will provide technical support for this offensive, there will be no direct US participation.

Reports in the US media on Sunday said that Washington is sending 100 military trainers to Pakistan who may also participate in operations against the militants.

Pakistan will also continue its efforts to negotiate a peaceful end to the conflict with tribal supporters of the Taliban and Al Qaeda insurgents, the sources said, adding that the military offensive will not terminate the peace talks.

The sources claimed that US intelligence experts also have confirmed Pakistan’s assessment that Baitullah Mehsud and his group are responsible for most of the attacks inside Pakistan. They said that since December, when Mehsud assumed command of a militant umbrella group called Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, he has become active on both sides of the Pak-Afghan border.

In an unusual interview to Washington Post last month, CIA chief Michael Hayden blamed Mehsud for assassinating former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and warned that a new “nexus between Al Qaeda and various extremist and separatist groups” is seeking to destabilise Pakistan.

“It is clear that their intention is to continue to try to do harm to the Pakistani state as it currently exists,” he added.

US officials in Washington say that the United States is helping Pakistan deal with this threat and recently sent a four-member intelligence team to the country to help enhance their intelligence gathering capabilities.

The proposed military offensive, according to diplomatic and US sources, aims at curbing Mehsud’s growing influence in the tribal zone, particular in Waziristan.

Pentagon officials, while talking to various US media outlets, said that US intelligence experts are helping Pakistan locate Mehsud who, they said, needs to be “hammered down.”

Diplomatic sources said that since Mehsud and his militants hide among local tribes, it has been difficult to pinpoint him. The fear of collateral damage --- civilian casualties -– also prevents US and Pakistani troops from targeting Mehsud.

The Pakistan Army last conducted an operation against Mehsud in early January. But the action ended after a few days amid talk of an unofficial truce.

Dear Chowkies,
What is Zardari up to?

Re: # 332

Zeemax, all jokes aside, is that really the Pakistan you wish to be living in?

... them ...

#330 Posted by hamidm2,

Oh really? There was news yesterday that Umm-e-Hassan walked into a girls' madrassa in I-9 in Islamabad (which had earlier been affiliated with Jamia Hafsa) along with a dozen girls, beat up the 'Mohtamim', threw him out, and took control without a peep from the police or anyone else.

Now, do you dare to pull another 'operation silence' on tham?

hello prophetboy...what's up with the moderate kids of moderate pakis?

School-going children stage anti-blasphemy protest

By Ali Waqar

LAHORE: A few dozens of schoolchildren held an anti-blasphemy demonstration on the Multan Road to protest against the publishing of sketches of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) in Danish newspapers.

The protest, termed an awakening call for the students of a few private schools, was arranged by Bazam-e-Pegham, an association working with the aim to ‘enlighten’ students on Islam.

Some teachers and Bazam-e-Pegham society members also accompanied the students in the protest. The students, wearing shrouds, posed as Ghazi Ilamud Din Shaheed (the Muslim who killed Raj Pal on writing a blasphemous book in the Subcontinent). The students of the Allama Iqbal High School and Lahore Islamic Mission High School branches in the Canal View Housing Society and on Wahdat Road participated in the protest.

Re: # 328

zeemax,

.... if nawaz sharif doesn't get in bed with zardari and get on with it, i am afraid he will be isloated and die a slow death over the next five years ..... but i think he will come around - he is not a fool ......

........ and as part of the government in the cneter he will continue to support the war on terror while paying lip service to islam - all mohammedan leaders nowdays have to do that because their people have developed a sick death wish ....

p.s. i still think we should round up the jamia hafsa survivors and make sure they can't breed any more sucide bombers ....

... and the Darra bomb. It basically blew away the entire band of Al-Anbar turncoat wannabes! 50 of them ... all at the same time.

#327 Posted by hamidm2,

You really believe Zardari can go to bed with the people whom he's been calling 'Qatil League' and get away with it?

Maybe in your soor eating Murtid world .. haha.

PML-N is the future. I've been saying this for quite a while.

And, NS was addressing a Madrassa today (Jamia something) in Lahore. Before that, he said in an interview yesterday that the ultimate principle is the Amr b'il Maroof one (he explained the full principle). That was the same principle which Taliban painted on police stations in Swat.

So he knows which way the wind is blowing. So do the Pakistani people who elected PML-N. It's only the kanjars who still don't know ... just as the frog in the slowly heating water bowl doesn't know it's going to die when it's warm water comes to a boil!

Re: # 326

zeemax mian,

..... i hate to say this, but i think there is a 50/50 chance that the ppp, pml-q, and mqm will form the governments in the center, punjab and sindh ........ pml-n will be left out in the cold ...... principles are nice, but they don't bring home the bacon (or chicken, in your case)

#323 Posted by tahmed32,

NS's stand in not joining cabinet in the center is a principled one. How can his ministers take oath from a president whom they do not accept as a legitimate president since 1999?

Ch. Nisar has said today in a very hard hitting press conference that they will join the cabinet as soon as musharraf is ousted ... if PPP still wants them.

2100 people dead...1-7 population ratio..hmm...the grand strategy to bleed india has turned into death by a thousand self-inflicted wounds..

Pakistan Suicide Bomb Attack Kills 32 People in Northwest

By Jay Shankar

March 2 (Bloomberg) -- A suicide bomber targeting a meeting of local officials and tribal elders in northwest Pakistan killed at least 32 people, the official Associated Press of Pakistan said.

The attack took place in the tribal town of Darra Adam Khel, military spokesman Athar Abbas said in a telephone interview from Islamabad. He didn't confirm the death toll.

About 40 people were injured in the attack, APP said in a statement posted on its Web site. Members from five clans of Darra Adam Khel were about to conclude a discussion of the restoration of peace in the region when the bomber struck, it said.

The number of people killed in terrorist attacks more than doubled to 2,116 in Pakistan last year. Suspected pro-Taliban militants have increased attacks on Pakistan's military, which has been fighting terrorists and extremists in tribal areas bordering Afghanistan since 2003.

Zardari to the khakis...

I’ve paid my dues -
Time after time -
I’ve done my sentence
But committed no crime -
And bad mistakes
I’ve made a few
I’ve had my share of sand kicked in my face -
But I’ve come through

We are the champions - my friends
And well keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
Cause we are the champions - of the world -

I’ve taken my bows
And my curtain calls -
You brought me fame andneand everything that goes with it -
I thank you all -

But it’s been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise -
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race -
And I ain’t gonna lose -

We are the champions - my friends
And well keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
Cause we are the champions - of THIS world!

ferozk #320 Zardari has turned out to be a "chhuppa rustum". Who would have thought that he would demonstrate such leadership in uniting the country during this difficult time!!

Trouble is, as the nation anxiously waits, Zardari may be trying to do too much. Thus, while correct in what he said on Kashmir, it was premature for him to say that given that the democratic cabinet is not even in place yet. He gains nothing (India isnt going anywhere), and could cause militarist-types to get alarmed with talk of - horrors! - peace.

I also think NS is making a mistake not joining the cabinet with PPP - we need such a united government today more than anything else.

arjun #318: I have you by the tail on the visa question, so quit wiggling around trying to talk your way out of it with your multiple posts.

re: tahmed32

The post was in reference to your post #317 and #31 was a typo.

Ciao

re: tahmed32 # 31

Zardari's comments on putting aside Kashmir and improving trade between India and Pakistan was just what the doctor ordered. Hopefully, NS will give up the staid rhetoric on Kashmir and it is about time that Kashmir is put in the deep freeze for a very, very, very long time.

Ciao

305 Alpha,

The notion of think tank does not mean that they have to be hired by some large organisation, paid a lot and hence they produce voluminous reports. The fact is that they are ideological groups, there are right wing think tanks and others of various hues. The essence of a think tank is that they push certain ideas, which are contradicted by other think tanks which advances human thought through dialectics.

If that is the broad essence of think tank, then well, Chowk fits into that. I clearly anti=pakistani on chowk, romair used to be pro-military, urstruly is an islamist and hamidm is an iconoclast. Tahmed is a simple niussance and all of teh above are equally important, a sample of life itself.

That is why I never red flag a post, I do not get into personal insults, even the frequent use of a$$ penetration by the pakis and others I try to make it into a cultural issue noting that no south indian languages have a word for it.

Then about hamidm and others criticism about indians reproducing pak new items. The fact is simple, these are the news clips that pakistanis ignore, they never acknowledge the reality in pakistan and these news clips are important.

Take the latest from Arjun. It is shocking that in Lahore and in their school of business, there is a taliban stall and they all are in praise of taliban. Thsi punctures the myth that jihadis are the un-educated and identifies a process that creates the london paki bombers and explains why the tahmed and YLH will not flatly and un-ambigously criticise jihadism. The elites are turning to taliban and the responsibility is clear, intelectual bankerupsy created by the requirement to follow a book.

Prophet tahmed: is it surprising that the US requires the visa applications of pakis to be cleared in DC?

while indian students are being wooed by MNCs/international finance cos and being offered the big $$, paki students are doing their bit for their IT industry...

‘Taliban’ takeover PU IBA Students praise Taliban bravery

* PU registrar says no one allowed to launch pro-Taliban campaign on campus, stresses students free to choose any name for sports team

By Adnan Lodhi

LAHORE: The Punjab University (PU) Institute of Business Administration (IBA) students on Friday showed their inclination towards Taliban and their policies.

They pitched a camp and named it Taliban on the annual sports day. Their shirts also carried statements in favour of Taliban. They said Taliban were working for a ‘great cause’, but the world had not been able to understand the spirit behind their sacrifices.

They also arranged an airgun shooting competition for female students. During the shooting competition a student was also injured. Students also decorated their stalls with posters of guns and also kept a fundraising box for Taliban on the stall. A female student said Taliban were fighting for a ‘great cause’. She said it was the need of the hour that students should know problems faced by the Muslim world.

Rizwan, a student, said, “Taliban are great warriors. We are raising funds for Taliban. Pakistanis think that Taliban are behind suicide bombings, but it is not true.” Asim, a student, said, “We are not affiliated with any political or religious party, but we praise Taliban for their bravery.” IBA Director Dr Ehsan Malik said, “I have no qualms if a group of students choose the word Taliban for their team.”

PU Registrar Dr Naeem said no one was allowed to launch a campaign for Taliban. He said the Taliban camp was merely part of the sports day.

#314 anil sahib: Maybe zardari reads chowk in his spare time..if you recall this is what i had been sahing on the Dost Mittar board could be expected to happen (i.e. the democratic government gives priority to re-starting the peace process once as soon as the transition is over.

Re: # 315

Ana:

"So yeah, I do know what it feels like to be insulted by HP and others here at Chowk. But to use the word "victim?" That would be giving them the power to dwell on that. No one here at Chowk deserves that kind of power. ..."

There is another way of dealing with such hatred filled people. Keep showing mirror in their face every time they rear their ugly head. With all their ugliness and hatred, and do it non-violently, with equal passion.

Many have done it, including Gandhi, Martin Luther King.

Re: # 262

Anil,

Fik'r not. It was not a matter of being hurt, but rather more exasperated.

Your Chowk interactions seem to have gone through somewhat of a transformation in the time that I was not here, if you are the same anil from somewhere in california, you used to either ignore the nasties, or respond in a more gentlemanly manner. I suppose like more and more of us, you have taken your gloves off.

And for the record, HP and I have exchanged not-so-niceties, particularly when I called him on his words for certain Indians here at Chowk. That seems like a long time ago. (and not much has changed) We have also had very civil and enjoyable exchanges regarding languages, among other things. So in my opinion, there has been a balancing of sorts in how we communicate here at Chowk. Yes, I have been a "victim" of sorts of his intolerance as you call it here at Chowk, but I have moved on. And I realize that is not always possible.

Intolerance yahaaN donoN taraf barabar. And the tolerant become intolerant themselves.

As for Masadi, his intolerance and immature tareeqa of ending a conversation is insupportable. I will say this though, even as much as I have ridiculed him, he has never been abusive towards me, and I cannot say that for some of the "tolerant" folk here at Chowk.

So yeah, I do know what it feels like to be insulted by HP and others here at Chowk. But to use the word "victim?" That would be giving them the power to dwell on that. No one here at Chowk deserves that kind of power.

Hamidm Sahib, and Tahmed Sahib:

"Kashmir issue can wait: Zardari"

I can vote for all such Pakistanis. This is Pakistan First.

Re: # 296

Hamidm Sahib:

Immortals like you do not die. Although a thought did come, would Hamidm Sahib oblige Massaddi Mian and put suicide jacket on that day?

That would bring a smile on his face. He may have to wait a long long time.

Jio hazaro saal, Hamidm Sahib, aur saal ke din ho pachaas hazar. This in not a condemnation.

Re: # 290

BJ Kumar:

I have seen people slapping their face to kill a mosquito. Have you? Honestly what does it mean to you?

Re: # 305

AlephNull

Very well said, where have u been all this time.

It is sad so called enlightened brown elites just pick up bad vice liking alcohol consumption and eating forbidden foods and feel to be progressive to drink alcohol which is worst than poison and damaging brain etc.
Only Mr. Masadi and YLH are able to avoid this west addictions and were able to come back to homeland others can talk all but they can not leave alcohol. Now I doubt if children see Abaji drinking alcohol and eating forbidden foods how they can stop children, they may say shut and say you can get rid of your addiction then talk to me. That is tragedy of life.

#304 Posted by prophet tahmed32(peace be unto his self-righteous left butt cheek) on March 1, 2008 6:17:11 am


1. no country goes around announcing its internal security clearance procedures


That point was never made my me...that was a strawman...your strawman..

The fact is that every university's international students page says that..


2. and even if pakistani passports are routinely subject to greater checks during visa processing than indian passports per your theory, so what?


Umm...it's not a matter of if...they ARE being subjected to extra scrutiny..and it's because, contrary to your delusions, pakis are considered more likely to be terrorists...

Re: # 208 Good point by Mr. Masadi.
Living in west is more like addiction. People get addicted to things and pick up bad habits of easy life and slaves life is secure than fre man. Life at back home in desh some people after they addicted appears hard but it is not that hard. There you get pay but you have to work hard and worry about firing when managers right size working numbers, about gas price and paying house money and saving money for retirement. It all silly. This Ghulam works so hard in west to make happy white elite boss. He thinks of retiring at age of 70 and have good retirement but cost goes up he has to work more. Pakistan one is free quite before 56 age and he enjoys life of retirement while wasted browny in west works hard to have but retirement but as soon as you retire you die as retired man in usa is worthless.
While pakistani retire at 56 and is happy watching world and when millions of people though have no so good as usa but they are fine and enjoying life. Expak suffers unnecessarily feeling how millions of people people retire, they are crazy as life is tough but millions are enjoying here ith many aminities. It feels more worse when you think.
Any for short time Mr. Masadi is absent and I will miss his principled presentation against "peongiri" and slave mental at this place. For atleast balace hope you will return soon and continue. Have good vacation and come refreshed to whip peopns of west. Good night.

aleph mian,

.... do you really think jay and masadi have 'substance' or are you just being a contrarian ? ...... i would like to think that it is the latter ......

...... however, a bag of manure also has 'substance' and if that is what you mean, then i fully agree with you ......

alephnull #305 you are welcome to your learned instructors - jay thakeray and pea-brain pandit arjun. Wonder why both student and teachers from india have to come to a pakistani forum to exchange your profound thoughts?

ps: pandit jay thakeray just wrote that he comes to chowk for "paki bashing". you indians need to come up with a consistent story at least. :-)

tahmed32 #187

{{Chowk is not a think tank, much as we may flatter ourselves into thinking so. ... The standards of scholarship and veracity are non-existent - the only standard that exists is chowk guidelines, (which, roughly translated, boil down to dont abuse one another, or one another's community).}}

Janaab-e-Qibla Peeran-e-peer Hazrat Allama Tahmed Esquire,

Chowk might not be a think-tank in the sense of corporate institutions like Rand and Brookings. It did however explicitly present itself for many years as a forum for the dissemination of ideas. There have been several first-rate interactors down the years who have tried to use it for exactly that purpose – jay being the most prominent, consistent and thought-provoking.

Now ideas are clearly not your province, original thought is utterly beyond you, and you seem to have been completely unsuccessful in having your own silly notions gain wider acceptance at Chowk. I therefore perfectly understand why the prospect of Chowk as a marketplace for ideas would makes you uncomfortable; you see it as nothing more than a place for chit-chat, idle time-pass, inane witticisms, nauseatingly self-righteous posturing, bombastic grandstanding, pompous sermons, excoriations of hatemongers, and similar tripe. But there are Chowkies of more substance who make visiting this place worthwhile for me, whether or not I agree with them or endorses their views – jayp and masadi being chief among them. I prefer that their activites not be restricted simply to accommodate the prejudices, insecurities and intellectual limitations of Chowk's least intelligent (if most prolific) interactors.

pandit pea-brain: you have by now written almost a dozen posts trying to prove what anyone with an ounce of brains would know what i told you right away, and i repeat:
1. no country goes around announcing its internal security clearance procedures - and so you are as usual confusing your delusions and theories for fact.
2. and even if pakistani passports are routinely subject to greater checks during visa processing than indian passports per your theory, so what?

Re: # 297

arjun mian,

.... i think i will make a very poor subject for studying the effects of inbreeding ..... as everyone knows, grandpa gopinath was from choa khals and grndma lakhmi was from domeli; on my mothers side grandpa khan baba was a durrani from from kandahar and green-eyed grandma jan bibi was from jalalabad (her family claimed to be syeds but i suspect they had some bad tajik blood) ......

....... now, let's talk about you ... has anyone in your family been touched by anyone other than an untouchable ?

#299 hamidm: you are beginning to sound like a mafia hit man!! scary..

#299 hamidm: you are beginning to sound like a mafia hit man!! scary..

so now while prophet tahmed(peace be unto his self-righteous left butt cheek) remains in his self-delusionary bubble, pakis applying for a visa to the US clearly know that their visas need to be cleared in DC if they're of a certain age.

Is it because

1. The islamabad consulate, unlike the delhi/bombay/chennai consulate, can't do the checks itself.
2. Pakis are considered more likely to be terrorists and the names of the visa applicants have to be cleared through the FBI/NCTC/DHS pipeline..

The answer is obvious...

moving on...why were pakis the first to be put on the registration/fingerprinting list?

1. because they're before india alphabetically?
2. Pakis are considered more likely to be terrorists.

tahmed,

.... now that we have managed to get rid of masadi, do you think it is time to see if we can rid this pakistani site of horrible hindoos like arjun and jay ?..... i like jay - he reaffirms my sterotype of a madrasi - but arjun has been around a long time and is beginning to stink (some can say the same thing about you and me) ........

..... what do you say?.... let us join hands and see if we can push out arjun ....... since i read the pakistani newspapers myself, i don't read his posts but it does take time to scroll past them .........

.... wait a minute! ... i can't do that - who will take care of romair? .... arjun mian, inspite of being a pesky little hemmaroid, does perform a necessary public service by keeping romair in check ...... forget i even mentioned it ... what was i thinking !

#291 hamidm: while masadi is a harmless ranter (like the rest of us) on chowk, you have a point about the harm he could be doing to his students with his talk about the US being an evil nation and so forth.

i say this because of a real life experience - in my first job in pakistan, i was offered a phd scholarship to the US. my boss tried to discourage me from going by saying something i am sure masadi tells his students. This is what he said as i recall "You are a student of development economics. Why do you need to go abroad to study development economics when all of Pakistan serves as a lab for you to do your research?"

This would have sounded high minded and rational - except that this man had just returned after 17 years at some university in the netherlands (leaving his dutch wife behind and marrying a pakistani girl half his age on his return). This sounded as hypocritical to me as masadi - having spent time in the US himself and returned (because he had no real choice, I would bet no matter how much he denies it), now wailing out to HP and others to "come back to Pakistan" and no doubt advising his students to spend their lives like the proverbial frog in a well.

#292 Posted by hamidm2 on March 1, 2008 4:32:30 am

I've heard stanford, MIT, harvard and ucla need subjects to study the effects of inbreeding...

your choice is simple: east coast or west coast

Re: # 293

aleph mian,

you are right in asking tahmed, "who died and bequeathed to you the post of censor-at-large of interaction on Chowk? "

........ the news of my death are premature

Re: # 293

alephnull mian,

.....i don't think we have to worry about arjun mian any more - he has accepted a position with the brookings institution as a senior fellow, pakistan studies ...

#293 alephnull: bhai meray, where am i calling for censorship? i have a right to comment on what someone writes, and i am doing that.

tahmed #251

{{if i need someone to scan the internet for irrelevant material, i would get a cat. so quit dragging in these dead mice you keep posting to prove that the whole world hates Pakistan like you.}}

Janaab tahmed32 esquire:

May I ask who died and bequeathed to you the post of censor-at-large of interaction on Chowk? Arjun is perfectly entitled to present his point of view whether or not it contradicts your most fondly held notions. If you don't want to read his factual posts nailing your latest stupidities to the mast, please learn to use the scroll bar on the right edge of the window or the Page-Up and Page-Dn keys on the right-hand side of a standard keyboard.

arjun mian,

.... i understand the brookings institution, cato institute, hoover institute and the aei are looking for resident scholars and senior fellows with expertise in pakistani affairs ........... have you thought of applying ?

Re: # 290

bj,

.... don't under estimate the pesky mosquito - it is responsible for millions of deaths across the globe every year ..... it is a threat big enough that the likes of bill gates, bill clinton and bono have joined forces to fight it .......

..... similarly, masadi might be an inconsequential flea plagued by feelings of sexual inadequacy, but he poses a grave threat to future generations ...... i am worried about his 'students' even though they attend bennington university of gowalmandi (affiliated with flushing university of south dakota) .... we must stop this mad man

.... thank you for your support ..

Hamidm2 miaN,

Do you, by any chance, every time swipe away a mosquito, also jump up and shout in delight...

"Woh maraa!"

Re: # 283

dear chowkies,

.... thank you for your support in driving away mad masadi .... the people have won ! ...see, what we can do if we stand united?!

.... but we must be vigilant and keep up our guard - sooner or later, this weasel will pop up his head and we should be ready to knock him back into his hole ....

.... now the distinguished indian and pakistani scholars of this think-tank can continue their intellectual discussions on geopolitics, monkey weddings in orissa, the environmental impact of defecating on railway tracks and tahmed's imminent prophethood .........

kumar bhai sahib: What you say about "unwritten" procedures is fine. And that in fact reinforces what I am saying!! So please explain it to pandit arjun. (he is after all a fellow Indian, and charity begins at home). :-)

arjun #270-277 or whatever: you can provide any number of links on the internet (like any pea-brain can) on immigration issues, and that does not change what I told you in the beginning - no country shares its internal visa clearance procedures with the public.

Re: # 283 Posted by masadi on February 29, 2008 10:47:45 pm


[I am voluntarily "banning" myself from this site for atleast a week,]

Hamid mian, finally the moon god has listened to your wishes, and you might get a visit from gabby. Enjoy your week of peace, my friend.

thank the lord for small mercies!

g'bye!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Have no doubts about it, US law enforcement are thugs and swines of the higest calibre. Stay away from them because touting the IT miracle and kissing their a$$ wont get you off their"cockroach list" if you don't have the color of skin (and European documents) to match.

bjk writes "Therefore, it is highly unlikely that you will find any official documents to support your contention that Pakistanis are to be treated differently"

DWB is also not official but is practiced, the color of your skin and facial hair determines behavior of the rednecks in law enforcement including US customs officials and ICE when a document (i.e. your passport is not visible). Pakistan has become notoriously famous among these thugs because of the status the US has given it in the farcial WOT. I have had relatives of all skin tones that have been harassed because of the passport they carried...moreso in the UK (doing its master's bidding) than in the US.

anil writes "You started abusing cycle with me"

Nonsense, you follow me around like a jamadar and throw in your nonsense abusive posts to make non existant points while making a damn fool of yourself. Leave my posts alone, I do not argue with Harvard Business School graduates (or their wannabes)

Re: # 278

Massaddi Mian:

You started abusing cycle with me. I will be the first one to be nice with you, if you would be nice to me.

Anil writes "and want to hide behind the nicety of thanking someone.

Get over it, since you have said on Chowk that your parents are Elites in Pakistan"


So it is damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I am politie I'm "hiding behind niceties", If I'm rude, I'm abusing. So what the hell should I do? By the way my parents were never elites and I never claimed that they were, you need to read what I say more closely which was merely that my education etc are more a result of my priviliaged background rather than anything MAJ did. A privilaged background does not imply elite parents. If my parents did what the US elite do, I would similarly condemn them....

#276 Posted by bjkumar on February 29, 2008 2:24:03 pm


US laws for immigrant and non-immigrant visas are not country-specific.


It's public information...read the immigration forum links..even the pakis know that their visas are cleared in DC...it was even in the papers.


I think that creating country-specific rules or regulations (other than advisories) itself may be a violation of some US laws.

The US can create any law it bloody well pleases when giving visas to citizens of other countries..Not just that, it can create laws that restrict it's citizens from going to certain countries...

pakis were the first people required to register and get fingerprinted...

US pushes for visa control on Pakistani Britons

By Alex Spillius in Washington and Philip Johnston
Last Updated: 6:12am BST 05/05/2007

# Your view: Should US refuse to admit British Pakistanis without visas?

Travel restrictions could be imposed by America on 800,000 British citizens of Pakistani origin because of concerns about terrorism, it emerged yesterday.


The move has been prompted by fears that British Muslim men were behind several major bomb plots.

Michael Chertoff, the US homeland security secretary, has reportedly told the Government that British Pakistanis should apply for a visa before travelling to America.

#various Arjun_5

I know you and Tauheed sahib are very fond of each other and perhaps I should not jump in...phir bhi

US laws for immigrant and non-immigrant visas are not country-specific. They are generic and their language is the same irrespective of country. (I think that creating country-specific rules or regulations (other than advisories) itself may be a violation of some US laws.)

Therefore, it is highly unlikely that you will find any official documents to support your contention that Pakistanis are to be treated differently from other nationalities as far as being admitted to the USA is concerned. (I checked the ones you referred to.)

Now, before Tauheed sahib proclaims victory, let me clarify something else.

The above is in theory. It is just like US laws which prohibit discrimination against people of color or other type of minorities. Just because it is not supposed to happen on paper does not mean it does not happen in real life. Ask many law-abiding minority members (particularly from inner cities) and many of them will have tales of how they were unfairly pulled over or treated to other treatments based on their looks. If that happens, it is not so difficult to look at it from the cop's point of view - the race, and physical looks may be a flag for further examination - not because the cop is a racist but he wishes to get to the "results" quickly and thinks that will happen if he creates a shorter list.

The reality is that DHS has been strengthened, it has more resources than it had available and its agents - being human - follow the same human instincts to try to get to results quickly. It won't surprise me if they do some kind of short listing, but I doubt very much that those would be "official" acts.

now...prophet tahmed(pbuh)


please tell us...why was pakiland first on the list of countries for the registration and fingerprinting requirements?

why did chertoff ask the brits for advance information on british citizens of the paki persuasion?

prophet tahmed(pbuy):

here's some more top secret information..might want to read the section about clearance...

http://www.usefpakistan.org/gfaq.html

What's this prophetboy? It seems like i've stumbled onto top secret information...

http://www.iso.rochester.edu/visadelays.htm

lookie here prophetboy...

http://karachi.usconsulate.gov/karachi/niv_non_immigrant_visa_f aqs.html

lookie here prophetboy

http://www.hio.harvard.edu/students_scholars/travel/travel_advisor y.php

Visa Delays

The most common reasons for non-immigrant visa delays or denials are the following:

1) Intending immigrant

Most often the reason for a denial has to do with the student or scholar's presumed intent to immigrate to the United States, known as 214(b). It is often difficult to disprove this accusation as it is by it's very nature very subjective. For guidance from the DOS on this topic, review the following information here.

2) Security clearances for some visa applications

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), together with the DOS have indicated that the process of issuing visas to some individuals will be slowed due to “name check” security clearances. The DOS has stated that their goal is to issue the security clearances within a 30-day period.

The following categories are used to determine who may be subject to this process.

By citizenship, nationality or country of birth

Special scrutiny is now imposed on visa applicants who were born in or are nationals or citizens of certain countries. The list has varied since 2001, and it is often unclear whether or not a particular country is still officially on the list or not. The list was originally designed to apply to male visa applicants between the ages of 16 and 45. However this designation has not been applied consistently, and female applicants have also been subject to security procedures.

In fact there are two lists of countries. The first list has been in place consistently for many years as countries the DOS has identified as “state sponsors of terrorism”. Male and female visa applicants from these countries are subject to security clearance procedures :

A security clearance may also be required by the U.S. consulate if a visa applicant is born in or is a citizen or national of certain countries. The list of countries is not published, but seems to include the following:

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, and the territories of Gaza and West Bank. This list will continue to change.

#265 Posted by tahmed32 on February 29, 2008 11:31:02 am


no country goes around informing pandit-spites about their visa clearing procedures.


prophetboy. the information is out in the public domain. ask any of your paki cousins.

Yep, HP goes scot free - means no paki is getting rough treatment at airports... even though other pakis are crying hoarse about the cavity search they get at US airports... writing articles and what not on their experiences...

#265 Posted by tahmed32

I have been a frequent traveler in the US and have never had anyone stop me at any place on any US airport. In fact, I have won many arguments with the security people over the size of my tooth paste and shaving cream cans.

I recently came back from Pakistan and no one finger printed me nor did they take any picture. So I don't know where this unperson you are trying to communicate gets his information. (Guess Bharat-Rakshak.com)He is perhaps not seen the inside of a US airport after the he left one after entry on a tourist visa!

Re: # 248 Posted by hamidm2 on February 29, 2008 8:20:06 am

hamid mian,

[... the only person who takes you seriously is me (now that should really worry you!)] and why do you do that?

#241 Posted by ana

Ana,

I can't remember an urdu saying which basically means "Bhalai kar buraa ho ga". I was trying to bring some people together to discuss issues but obviously I failed. I had a few more good things to write on this board but now I am bored with this whole thing and would let people take it over.
Look for my new article next week, if I can finish it this weekend!

Thanks for your comments!

#261 pea-brain pandit-spite:

"it's no secret that visas for paki males "
no pea-brain. no country goes around informing pandit-spites about their visa clearing procedures. so the correct answer is: you made that up.

in response to my two question, you write "It simply means that US government considers pakis more likely to be terrorists...same as the visa thing.."

Right!! that is all that it means!! It does not mean that pakistan is doomed, or that the world believes pandit-hates like you that muslims are evil, as you have dedicated your past several years trying to convince the handful of people on chowk. A few hundred illegal aliens from Pakistan to the US were deported in the months following 9/11. But an event that gave your spiteful little brain endless joy. No doubt a tragedy for many of them, although rest assured virtually every one of them will still live much better lives than a miserable little man who thinks some personal tragedies are a matter of joy or that they mean that normal people share your hate-crazed hindutva hate for other communities.

#245 Hamidm2

[...kashmir is a legitimate territorial issue for pakistan]

MiaN, I am aware that the partition was over 60 years ago. People got what they got and those who missed out - well, they missed out! Most people were adversely affected, many innocents got royally screwed by the process – except Mohamed Ali Jinnah who got himself a rulership out of it.

Did I say it all was 60 years ago?!

If the Pakistani khakis wish to fight over it, what was stopping them for 60 years? After all they are PAID to be able to fight. Reality is - they are too chicken!

Now, the techniques used by the "paid-to-fight-but-too-chicken-to-fight-for-themselves-so-sending-in-the-ji hadis-and-being-cocksure-that-the-jihadis-will-listen-to-their-commands-before-t hat-of-their-own-mullah-buddy" Pakistani "army" can NEVER be considered legitimate and never shall be!

Those illegitimate khakis - carping out "legitimate" issues to keep themselves relevant - now that is funny!

Yes, countries have issues with other countries all the time. How they go about addressing those issues is very revealing of their mindset.

It is not legitimate to attack civilians who are least able to defend themselves. Pakistani khakis did it. Pakistanis who think like you were cool with it!

It is not legitimate to cut off the vitals of captured soldiers. Pakistani khakis did it. Pakistanis who think like you were cool with it!

It is not legitimate to use special access privileges of diplomats to arm hijackers of IC-814. Pakistani khakis did it. Pakistanis who think like you were cool with it!

Well, it is not cool! And while I am happy to kick some Pakistani khaki rears over this issue – YOU are not off the hook either!

When all is said and done, my advice to you and other Pakistanis who are heartbroken over "losing" Kashmir (that you never had in reality)...

Dear heartbroken Pakistanis...

.... Kashmir is no more a legitimate territorial issue! ...

.... build a bridge and get over it! ... stop crying like a baby ......

Re: # 235

Massaddi Mian:

"...no such terms are only for people with no morals like you and other peons of the West, thank you for asking though..."

It seems you are too ashamded to tell the truth publicly, and want to hide behind the nicety of thanking someone.

Get over it, since you have said on Chowk that your parents are Elites in Pakistan, it is hard to believe that you have not yelled those fine words of your oratory at your parents, especially when you have used it on parents of your students too.

Re: # 241

Ana:

I apologize to you that my comment caused hurt to you. That was not my intention.

Massaddi Mian and HP Mian are unique and are first to start abusing others. I too have been victim of their intolerance.

Massaddi Mian lacks awareness of scientific enquiry. He cannot respect adversary's differing views in debate. He comes up hurling abuses.

In this instance a couple of emails below, Majumdar made his case through shining mirror to him by putting collecting of Massaddi Mian's emails, regarding polling opinion on Chowk, as the evidence.

Massaddi Mian is cunning enough to realize he lost the discussion, therefore he called Majumdar moron, in a different style. He then puts forward his lame excuse in the guise of quoting you.

You may not have been their victim, to realize how his and HP Mian's victims feel.

#257 Posted by tahmed32 on February 29, 2008 8:47:06 am


unless the State Department keeps you in the loop about visa procedures


prophetboy: it's no secret that visas for paki males of a certain age are cleared in DC rather than in islamanad..and you don't need super secret polygraph clearance to know that there's no such requirement for indians..

of course, things may be different in your alternate universe...


so what, you idiot?


It simply means that US government considers pakis more likely to be terrorists...same as the visa thing..




So what, you idiot?


It simply means that US government considers pakis more likely to be terrorists...same as the visa thing and the fingerprinting thing...

#259 lookee prophet-fetus_5, i asked you some questions below. Dont jump around trying to change the subject.

whoa...lookie here prophetboy..the "moderates" wooing islamists? what's up with that?

Bhutto's party woos Pakistan Islamists
Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:48pm EST


By Zeeshan Haider

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistani opposition parties that inflicted a big defeat on President Pervez Musharraf's allies in last week's election are trying to woo Islamists to build a coalition that could threaten the rule of the U.S. ally.

Asif Ali Zardari, widower of assassinated former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and leader of her party, on Thursday night met Fazl-ur-Rehman, a hardline Islamic cleric and discussed the possibility of forming a "government of national consensus".

Representatives of both leaders were due to meet again on Friday evening for more discussions.

Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party (PPP) won most seats in the February 18 election, but not enough to rule alone. The Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) of another former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, came second.

Zardari has called for a coalition government made up of all parties except Musharraf's main ally, the Pakistan Muslim League (PML), which suffered a humiliating defeat in the polls.

"We support the idea of a government of national consensus because it is in the interest of the country and nation," Abdul Ghafoor Haideri, a close aide to Rehman, told Reuters.

"No party can address the problems of the country alone," said Haideri, who is leading his side in the talks with the

#256 Major Hamidm, ISI-Masadi Unit: Did you remember to turn off the bug in Masadi's bedroom? Have you informed the Evil Elite that Masadi is asleep now, and so it may proceed to spread Evil around the world?

#255 prophet-foetus-brain: you say "i don't know of any such procedure for indians" - unless the State Department keeps you in the loop about visa procedures, what you claim to know or not know about US visa procedures is the same bs that you have spent your waking hours posting on chowk past several years.

"why was pakis first on the list of people who had to get fingerprinted and registered? "
so what, you idiot? Does this mean Pakistanis are doomed, as insane indians like you dream about all day?

"why is it that thousands of mexicans cross the border everyday and yet if a paki sailor jumps ship in the US, the feds issue a lookout..?"
So what, you idiot?

Re: # 253

g'night sweet prince,

..... check your closet for ghouls, goblins and the evil us elite before turning off the light .....

#251 Posted by tahmed32 on February 29, 2008 8:25:02 am


you keep posting to prove that the whole world hates Pakistan like you.


tell me prophetboy....why is it that the US visa applications of paki males of a certain age have to be cleared in DC...i don't know of any such procedure for indians

why was pakis first on the list of people who had to get fingerprinted and registered?

why is it that thousands of mexicans cross the border everyday and yet if a paki sailor jumps ship in the US, the feds issue a lookout..?

why is it that there are tons of pakis in gitmo but no indians(muslim or otherwise) there?

#250 saharanapuri - a request (seriously) could you please state your point and then simply give a link?

all you are proving is your lack of concern for others who at least write their own stuff and which gets bulldozed by you.

g'night

Feroz writes "If the GOP had blocked it, I would not have been able to access it."

Their work is sloppy some networks manipulating IPs can bypass the ban but it sure as hell is blocked going the normal route. I did not start using a computer yesterday to mistake a technical fault with banning...

arjun #240 if i need someone to scan the internet for irrelevant material, i would get a cat. so quit dragging in these dead mice you keep posting to prove that the whole world hates Pakistan like you.

A PRINCESS BRIDE

The great-great-granddaughter of the legendary "Lion of the Punjab" returns to her home in Pakistan after an overlong absence

BY SUKETU MEHTA/LAHORE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

One day in august 1947, Nony Singh overheard her father talking about shooting her. She was around ten then, a Sikh girl growing up in a big house in Lahore, just before partition. She was walking along a passageway when she overheard a conversation out on the veranda: her grandfather, her father and her uncles were planning how they would defend themselves against Muslim mobs that were returning with increasing frequency to the house. The men--most of whom were army or police officers--had stockpiled a huge cache of arms in the house. The teenage girls in the family--her oldest sister and her three aunts--had already been sent to safety across the border to Simla, a hill resort that would eventually fall to India; only Nony and her two younger sisters were left in Lahore. She heard her father tell the others that, if Muslims broke into the house, he would fight to the end. But before the end came, he said, "I will take the three girls into a room and line them up and shoot them."
We were standing on this same veranda now, my friend Nony Singh and I, 50 years later. It was the first time she had returned to Lahore since 1947. She was making a unique crossing, not merely from the country in which she lives to the one left behind, not just from her present home to an earlier one, but from approaching old age back to the territory of childhood, a realm preserved only in dreams and old photographs.

What made her return unusual was that she is the great-great-granddaughter of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, the "Lion of the Punjab," the Sikh king who at the beginning of the 19th century ruled over all of Punjab from Lahore. So when she came back, it was with a special sense of belonging, above and beyond that of the many other partition refugees visiting ancestral homes. Signing the Pakistani visa forms in Delhi, she had remarked: "I felt I own the place. How dare they ask for a visa?"

Nony had left Lahore on a sour note: a fight with her best friend Fauziya, who lived next door. Nony had made a doll, with a long plait, the face painted with watercolors, and a wardrobe fashioned of brightly colored scraps from her aunts' old clothes. Fauziya wanted Nony to marry her attractive doll to Fauziya's male doll. At first Nony agreed, but then Fauziya told her that since her doll was female, it would have to come with a dowry--all the doll-clothes and doll-bedding that Nony had hand-stitched. Also, Fauziya insisted, after the wedding the female doll would have to stay in the male doll's house--as was the custom among humans. Nony turned down the match, and Fauziya stopped speaking to her. A few days later, Nony and her family left Pakistan forever, taking the doll with her. She has always regretted, she told me, that she left Pakistan on a fight over the distribution of property.

What she wanted to do now was to go back to the two houses in which she had grown up: her maternal grandmother's amid the winding lanes of Anarkali Bazaar, and her paternal grandfather's in Model Town. Her grandmother had died soon after crossing the border, Nony said: "We were thrown out. We felt very hurt. My grandmother died of sorrow."

The Anarkali Bazaar house is now a printing shop. Sometime after partition it was taken over by the former tenants, and stacks of old books crowd the rooms where her grandmother once conducted business from behind a latticed screen with the accountants, making sure that rent-collection from her numerous shops in the bazaar was in order. Though he was quite ill, the old man who now owns the house invited Nony for dinner because, he said, he had something to explain. He was ashamed. At partition, he said, Nony's grandmother had given his father the key to the house for safekeeping. The father had kept all her grandmother's possessions locked in the upper rooms of the house, allowing no one to enter them. Then, he said, after a family dispute his cousins had broken into the rooms and stolen everything. He said he had lived with the guilt for 50 years. Now at last he could explain and apologize. Nony said later, "I was embarrassed also, and I was hurt. This was my house, and some other people took it over. But I admired him for telling me. His family was so affectionate. The human feeling was what mattered."

When she left the man's house, she was given bangles and an embroidered veil--the traditional gifts a daughter of the house is given when she returns to her in-laws. The symbolism was clear: this was Nony's true home, here in Lahore. Delhi and India were merely in-laws, the family int