Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment

yeah....why wouldn't mushy want the story of pakiland's great victory in kargil to be told...HAHAHA..

Sharif wants probe on Musharraf's role in Kargil war

Press Trust of India
Sunday, March 2, 2008 (Islamabad)
The new government in Pakistan should review the causes for the Kargil war, including President Pervez Musharraf's role, and fix responsibility for the conflict with India, former premier Nawaz Sharif has said.

The Charter of Democracy signed by the Pakistan People's Party and the PML-N nearly two years ago committed both parties to setting up a commission to review the Kargil conflict, Sharif, whose party has decided top support a PPP-led coalition government, said.

The document also committed the parties to abolishing the National Security Council, making the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency accountable to the civilian government and getting all army officers to declare their assets annually, the PML (N) chief said.

''We stand by the Charter. We think it's an excellent document (and) it must be implemented in letter and spirit.

And I have all the intentions to do that,'' Sharif told interviewer Karan Thapar on the Devil's Advocate programme.

''The PPP is committed to that because it bears the signature of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto.''

Asked if he was still committed to the setting up of a commission to look into the causes of Kargil and to fix responsibility, Sharif replied, ''Yes.''

Sharif, whose PML(N) emerged as the second largest party after PPP in the February 18 polls, also said the charter continued to be binding despite slain former premier Bhutto's talks on a possible power-sharing arrangement with Musharraf.

Sharif has for long contested Musharraf's contention that he was aware about and had backed the plan to take over strategic heights in the Kargil sector of the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir in 1999, while he was the prime minister.

The conflict stalled a peace initiative that had been launched by Sharif and his then Indian counterpart, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, barely months before Pakistani troops took over the heights in Kargil.

The Pakistani troops and mujahideen were evicted after a three-month long campaign.

Asked if a possible probe into the Kargil affair was another way to target Musharraf, Sharif said: ''It's not targeting. It is straightening out things. We have to put our house in order and we want to put our house in order.''

Sharif also did not rule out the possibility of taking legal action against Musharraf for deposing him in a military coup in 1999, barely three months after the end of the Kargil conflict, and for abrogating the constitution.

''Somebody will have to be taken to task. After all, abrogating the constitution is not a small crime. Does it happen in India?'' he said.

''What is the harm if any such action is initiated?''

Asked if he would actually initiate legal action against Musharraf, Sharif said, ''Who knows? Well, time will tell. I think the country has suffered enough at the hands of these dictators.''

Sharif repeated his call for Musharraf to quit in the wake of the defeat of his supporters in the February 18 general election. ''That is why we are saying repeatedly, 'Mr Musharraf step down.' There may be a safe exit now available to you.''

Separatists lash out at Zardari over Kashmir remarks

Kashmiri separatist leaders have expressed dismay and anger at Pakistan Peoples' Party co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari's announcement that the Kashmir issue should be set aside to focus on other aspects for improving relations with India.

Zardari, in an interview, asserted that, "The relations between India and Pakistan should not be held hostage to the Kashmir issue".

"The dispute constitutes a potential threat to nuclear peace in the south Asian region. Therefore, the dispute has to be addressed in the larger interest of peace, security and the stability in the region as a whole," Prof Abdul Gani Bhat, chief spokesperson of the moderate All Parties Hurriyat Conference told rediff.com.

"We cannot wish it away. This has to be done. The dispute has to go. We cannot afford to live with tensions for all times to come," he said.

Prof Bhat said, "Zardari or any other person has to bear in mind that the survival of the region is inescapably linked with the resolution of Kashmir problem".

"Zardari has totally strayed away from the traditional Pakistan stand on Kashmir. It shows his political immaturity. He wants to appease India," said Nazir Ahmad Ronga, president of the Kashmir Bar Association.

Jammu and Kashmir [Images] Liberation Front chairman Mohammad Yasin Malik, while reacting to Zardari's statement, said, "Nobody could overlook the sacrifices made by the people of Kashmir and the problem has to be resolved in line with people's aspirations".

Malik said he favoured India-Pakistan friendship but the same "should not be achieved by suppressing of the rights of Kashmiri people".

"We should not react in haste unless we find out the context in which Zardari made his assertions," said Shabir Shah, chairman of the Democratic Freedom Party.

Shah also said that the official stand of the new coalition government in Pakistan on Kashmir would be known only after they assume power.

... correction ...#276

Read 20 million+ people as 34 million people.

#274 Posted by pavocavalry,

This too was written in 2003?

#271 Posted by pavocavalry,

IDEALISM WILL COME TO GRIEF.PAKISTAN IS A REALLY HOPELESS STATE.AN UNDOUBTED FAILURE.

Yes that's a view, shared by many, but 20 million+ people voted and gave a clear mandate despite the threats of violence propagated through the interior ministry by musharraf to scare them away. That outcome too was unexpected, and another can happen. It would be unfair to discount the public mandate altogether just if the US says so.

Pakistan's Looters and Plunderers: Politicians or Generals?
By Major A.H. Amin

IN AN answer to a question General Musharraf stated that Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were plunderers and thus have no right to rule Pakistan. If this line of supreme piety and catholic chastity is to be followed no one can rule Pakistan whether it is Nawaz, Benazir or any soldier unconstitutional president including Musharraf.

Musharraf could have given one credit to the alleged plunderer Nawaz Sharif , which is that he promoted Musharraf out of turn, and over the heads of many competent officers, to head the Army. Musharraf is a beneficiary of Nawaz’s corrupt acts.

A dispassionate glance at Pakistan’s history proves that this country has been looted or plundered by both soldiers and civilians. It is another thing that soldiers got away with the crime because they had guns in hand while politicians were penalized because they did not have coercive military power or because they committed the crime of appointing army chiefs who overthrew them.

The vast bulk of corruption in this country was committed in the Ayub and Zia eras because it was in these two periods when phenomenal doses of foreign aid came to this country. Thus the 21 families of the Ayub era. This is a reference to the families who, thanks to President Ayub’s patronage, rose from little or nothing to become among the richest in Pakistan. These included sons and grandsons of Risaldar Majors of Hodsons Horse and sons and grandsons of Assistant Political Agents (In both cases, the ranks are humble). I know many sons and grandsons of Risaldar Majors but none became a billionaire unless he was one part of the Ayub regime.

Take Afghanistan in 1980s. As per a respectable estimate only 15 to 25 % of the cross border Afghan aid ever reached the Afghans, the rest was skimmed off by Pakistani and some Afghan middleman from the ISI and other agencies. Thus so many beverage and textile factories belong to the sons of generals, including the present minister of commerce.

The Americans gave 250 Stinger launchers and about 1,000 Stinger Missiles to Pakistan’s ISI under the silent soldier whose son is a silent industrialist. These were state of the art weapons against Soviet gun ships and air power. All evidence now proves that these Stingers had limited impact on the war in Afghanistan but a decisive role on Pakistani military juntas generals.

That these missiles were sold by the silent arms merchants was proved once one of these very Stingers sent to Pakistan missed a US Helicopter in the Persian Gulf on 8th October 1987. This led to a US probe into finding crooks and plunderers who sold these Stingers and it failed because the crooks and plunderers blew the Ojhri Camp Depot in 1988, in what was surely one of the greatest ammunition depot explosions in history. Another casualty of these crooks and plunderers was Pakistani Premier Junejo who had reduced generals to Suzuki cars [an economy compact, quite a step down compared to the Mercedes’ favored by the South Asian elite] and wanted to sack the silent soldier General Akhtar Abdur Rehman.

The list is endless. Who sold the Intercontinental Hotel to Hashwani for next to nothing, less than a simple house? Who was that general who bought Mercedes Trucks for NLC? Or was Saeed Qadir a blackguard civil servant like Salman Faruqui?

Volume wise the greatest scams of Pakistan were committed in defense deals. Only one man was taken to task i.e. naval chief Mansur, but this man too was dismissed by Nawaz Sharif long before Musharraf came to power. Another major defence scam was the Ukrainian tank deal involving ex army chief Karamat but this was conveniently ignored by Musharraf as the general is from the generals trade union !

Now to the present regime. Although it is too early to finalize any conclusions but there is no doubt that many scams would be known when this regime too is assigned to the dustbin of history. In 1999 in an open bidding for Coastal Highway a Pakistani civilian firm SK & B got the contract since it was the lowest bidder. The military firm FWO was the seventh highest bidder and was nowhere near SK & B. As soon as this military government came into power it cancelled SK & B’s contract and gave the contract to FWO asking it to itself change the design and lower its rates. The FWO failed to complete the project in time and has sub-contracted Ormara-Pasni Section at lower rates than it is being paid, to two civilian firms. ! Why couldn’t civilians be given the contract in the first place.



Who allowed MacDonald’s to occupy billion dollar land reclaimed by DHA initially for commercial bidding? Who allowed MacDonald’s to make a restaurant in the parking lot in Karachi? These are only the tip of the iceberg.

The list of scams is indeed long. Where does the buying of Boeing 777 fit in? With Hidayatullah Khaishgi a close relative of Musharraf on PIA's board of directors, is there no dead rat in this 5 Billion USD purchase? Look at the contradictions. Back in 1980s an army captain was dismissed from service on false allegations for taking a government issue bulb home and all is clean in a multi billion dollar deal!

What about sudden inflating of land rates at Gwadar with a known land mafia man Shiekhani developing schemes? With Gwadar land bought by senior military officials for 30,000/- a Kanal where a Kanal now is selling for 2 Million! [A Kanal is an eighth of an acre, so land sold to the public for $250,000 an acre was sold to the military for $4000 an acre.] We don’t know whether Gwadar would ever become a Dubai or not but it sure is a Dubai for all military men who own lands on the coastal Highway and in the Sanghar Housing Scheme.

The list is long and time is on the side of the hypocrites. It is alarming to see men who spend their lives in sycophancy with military seniors to get good Annual Confidential Reports finally picking up the mantle of cleaning Pakistan. Those who were just four years ago pleasing Shahbaz Sharif or Mr X on Farmhouse " X " now are persecuting their benefactors and not allowing them to live in this country.

They have made life a never ending self deception, an ironic play which would even make Shakespeare turn in his grave.

... sheesh the Darra dead Jirga elders are now 40. Someone blew up the whole meeting. Reports are it was an 18 yr old who didn't look like from the area ...

#267-269 Posted by pavocavalry,

This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

... and the monkeys think america is doing their job ...

Conclusion

The USA is dealing with sharp social climber third world leaders who know how to please and how to practice sophisticated ball lifting ! These men have no ideology and can withstand tremendous amount of kicking as they did while pleasing seniors in their military careers ! It is simpler to deal with these tinpot dictators than Osama or Mullah Omar ! If policy makers in the USA understand this fact their task would be simpler !

I WROTE THIS ARTICLE IN 2003.

NOW I AM INCLINED TO THINK THAT USA'S BELIEF THAT THE COLLABORATOR DOG CATCHER ARMY GENERALS ARE ITS BEST BET IN PAKISTAN AND AGAINST ISLAMISTS IN GENERAL HAS BEEN REINFORCED.

THEY ARE CONSPIRING TO IMPOSE SOME KIND OF SETTLEMENT IN PAKISTAN I.E DEMOCRACY INCLUDING MUSHARRAF.

IF THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN THEY WILL FIND ANOTHER MUSHARRAF IN THE ARMY WHO IS THEIR GOOD SON AND GOOD OLD HOUND FOR DOG CATCHING !

THE CONCLUSION IS THAT USA WILL CONTINUE TO RELY ON PAKISTAN'S COLLABORATOR GENERALS WHETHER ITS GENERAL X Y OR Z.THIS SYSTEM WONT CHANGE .IDEALISM WILL COME TO GRIEF.PAKISTAN IS A REALLY HOPELESS STATE.AN UNDOUBTED FAILURE.

#264 Posted by pavocavalry,

No truer words said:

The USA is dealing with sharp social climber third world leaders who know how to please and how to practice sophisticated ball lifting ! These men have no ideology and can withstand tremendous amount of kicking as they did while pleasing seniors in their military careers ! It is simpler to deal with these tinpot dictators than Osama or Mullah Omar !

India was too lrage to be manipulated although the USA did find moles cultivated by CIA like Mooraji Desai.

Pakistan was easier to manipulate through its military junta.So the USA favoured Pakistan's military junta.It always found democratic leaders like ZAB and NS as a threat .

What is happening is that USA is using paki generals against Islamists.This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

India was too lrage to be manipulated although the USA did find moles cultivated by CIA like Mooraji Desai.

Pakistan was easier to manipulate through its military junta.So the USA favoured Pakistan's military junta.It always found democratic leaders like ZAB and NS as a threat .

What is happening is that USA is using paki generals against Islamists.This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

India was too lrage to be manipulated although the USA did find moles cultivated by CIA like Mooraji Desai.

Pakistan was easier to manipulate through its military junta.So the USA favoured Pakistan's military junta.It always found democratic leaders like ZAB and NS as a threat .

What is happening is that USA is using paki generals against Islamists.This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

India was too lrage to be manipulated although the USA did find moles cultivated by CIA like Mooraji Desai.

Pakistan was easier to manipulate through its military junta.So the USA favoured Pakistan's military junta.It always found democratic leaders like ZAB and NS as a threat .

What is happening is that USA is using paki generals against Islamists.This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

India was too lrage to be manipulated although the USA did find moles cultivated by CIA like Mooraji Desai.

Pakistan was easier to manipulate through its military junta.So the USA favoured Pakistan's military junta.It always found democratic leaders like ZAB and NS as a threat .

What is happening is that USA is using paki generals against Islamists.This in turn is creating a backlash and when this backlash is created India feels threatened.So India has to talk to USA.

The Pakistani military mindset

A.H Amin

2nd August 2003



While third world military figures , in power or retired make impressive speeches at various forums and think tanks , very few outside their countries understand their mindset and motivation , which by and large is driven by highly personalized and ulterior motives !



Keeping this premise in view it is important to understand the mindset and the personalities of the third world military juntas , most important in this case being the Pakistani military junta !



The British Indian Army which gave birth to Pakistan and Indian armies in 1947 was essentially a colonial army designed for internal security and limited defence of India against external threats .The British ensured that all Indians who came to this organization were from the politically most docile and loyal classes ! In order to keep the Indian officer corps slavish they kept a 50 % quota for Indian Army rankers in Indian Military Academy Dera Dun right from its foundation in 1930-32 .



Layman readers may note that the “ lower middle class” as well as the “ middle class” by and large are the politically most conservative classes ! Social climbers by orientation , intensely careeristic in outlook and extremely conscious of personal benefits , having none or little of the pride or spirit de corps that made the Prussian junker officer defy Hitler ! In the Russian Civil War many major reactionary White Army leaders including Denikin,Kornilov etc were from humble background ! Similarly all of Pakistan’s military rulers less Yahya Khan were from humble background and all brought with them the intense greed and ambitiousness of a man from humble origins with none of the ideological idealism that distinguishes a man of ideology from a social climber !



Now the mindset of the military junta :--



1- Personal motives having priority over all other motives :-- You would find no Manstein or Guderian in them but highly ambitious men who practiced sycophancy with their seniors , hole punchers in US terms , yes men ,masters of personal manouvre in order to get the right report from the right boss at the right time ! They pleased their seniors and they know how to handle balls of any benefactor may it be Bush or Reagan where aid is concerned ! They have no ideology less personal interest !

2- View Wars and International Geopolitics as a means of personal benefit:-- The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a divine and phenomenal lottery for Pakistan’s military rulers ! Zia the son of a humble tailor , and many of his generals Akhtar etc siphoned millions of US dollars in private accounts , from the US aid meant for Afghanistan ! knowing the Americans well , they must have also earmarked good retainers for Zia and his ISI chief in any case ! Serious observers like Selig Harrison and Cordovez have concluded that the Pakistani military junta never wanted that the Soviets should withdraw from Afghanistan since that would have meant stoppage of US aid ! Similarly 9/11 is a heaven sent opportunity for General Musharraf since it enabled him to get US aid and the much needed US boost to stay in power !

3- Can be coerced and bought if the Bigger players know how to drive them:-- These leaders have price tags and can be manipulated to a significant extent without risking wars like the Iraq war ! This is so because their vision is personal , has none of Khomeini or Osama’s ideological agenda ! Thus if the USA sensibly deals with them with carrot and stick they can be made to conform to US policies !

4- Ulterior motives in prolonging conflicts to get aid :-- These leaders have an ulterior motive that their benefactor super power i.e USA is kept occupied in its war against terror , not because they have any love for Islam , but simply because this would bring them more aid , an important part of which is siphoned into private fortunes ! Thus at a certain covert level these leaders are interested in the terrorist’s cause also ! Thus the third world intelligence agencies have many irons in the fire whether it is initiating a terrorist outrage or encouraging one !

5- Increasing reliance on coercive power of state :-- Since these leaders have little or no contact with national aspirations of their masses , they increasingly rely on the coercive power of the state which leads either to a Shah of Iran like situation or strengthening of a Saddam like totalitarian regime ! In both cases it was the fault and mishandling of US policy makers !

6- Role of the Intelligence agencies :-- To buy judges , to blackmail politicians , to start wars of low intensity to get aid , to manipulate low intensity war players for specific ends to please or disturb their super power benefactors !



Conclusion

The USA is dealing with sharp social climber third world leaders who know how to please and how to practice sophisticated ball lifting ! These men have no ideology and can withstand tremendous amount of kicking as they did while pleasing seniors in their military careers ! It is simpler to deal with these tinpot dictators than Osama or Mullah Omar ! If policy makers in the USA understand this fact their task would be simpler !