Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment

Re: # 86
Stupid. India was never militarily involved in Afghanisthan. Rather, India provided help in education, health and other sectors, which common people of Afg. benefits. In this respect, Pakistan will never get upperhand in civilian sectors in Afg. Any civil Govt. in Afg will be pro-Indian.

anil#73:

"He did not create conditions for change between India and Pakistan. Almost all visible conditions were external."

No, he did not create those conditions. But he did have the will and the capacity to change his position in the current circumstances. Even the bureaucracy, let alone military establishment, would not have let a civilian leader take some dramatic changes.

I had written at chowk a couple of years ago that even though Musharraf has described Kashmir as the jugular vein of Pakistan, he would choose Pakistan over Kashmir if he had to make the choice, and this is what he did.

dost_mittar #91
Let us be clear. If the assassins were Bajrang Dal goons who had trained in Gujarat, you would not hold Modi responsible for continuing to train goons for murder and prefer to point to the lack of riots after 2002?

Re: # 97

Mr.nkg

Are you trying to say that the carnage in Gujarat does not amount to goondaism? Hasn't he facilitated goondas to control the lives of Hindus? In the premise of saving Hinduism, didn't we see his goondas intimidate people?

No amount of economic development will offset fascism. Doesn't he resort to goondaism when he says no to Sethusamudram project?

After open economy, people are more bothered about prosperity than Pakistan/China anybody else. The biggest concern for India is China and not Pakistan. The low intensity conflict may bleed India, but ecomic growth better than China will provide India an upper hand in military capability as well.
1998 Neuclear test was conducted to threaten China ( stupid idea from A P J Kalam and RSS/BJP people bought the logic). China have used Pakistan to invade in Kargil.

GT#72:

"Why can't a peace process not be reversed?"

I have already said in an earlier interact that I do not think that the peace process is yet irreversible, but could become so if the current momentum is maintained and vested interests develop on both sides of the border to maintain peace between the two countries.

"The US or Pakistan will not solve the problem of "terrorism" for India. Indians will have to do so by themselves."

With this, I agree one hundred per cent. But outside help can't hurt either.

Re: # 92
Mr. Anil, Modi is not goonda. He has very clean political record. Gujrat is not Pakistan, where negative rhetoric can win election. Certain points Gujratis know very well, which is not highlighted by media.
Sohrbuddin was a gangster and was budding Dawood Ibrahim under Congress umbrella. There were pending cases against him in Rajasthan and MP as well. So, the encounter, though looks illegal, have saved another disaster in happening like Mumbai. He has taken similar steps against mafias in Porebandar. Media does not show that.
Regarding riots, it is now clear that you disarm moslems, riot stops. More than 200 year old tradition is history now. Whatever happened during 2002 is abberation. If Modi had any plan to eleminate moslems, he should have taken long term approach (like moslems in Pakistan and Bangladesh has taken. You will not see any sudden flair up, but situation is created in such a way that people will leave their home gradually and over a period of 10/15 years, the entire demography etc...got changed). He is very much autocratic and couple of his ministers are tainted. That is very small compared to other states.

tahmed32:

I tend to agree with you that the Indian leaders' statements after their explosion of the nuclear bomb were irresponsible and provocative in nature.

BREAKING NEWS

This is to inform all the chowkis that 1008 Shri Shri Laddu Gopal Maharaj ji would not be available for the next two months on the Chowk.
In case Pakistani Momeens would like to celebrate his unforeseen voluntary absence as victory and a retribution of the angry moon god , they may do it by distributing laddus made of Boondi.

allahu.

#66:

"India also has an external reason for ending hostility with Pakistan. India’s dreams of becoming a world power have never been closer to becoming reality than now. But to do so, India has to be acceptable as a leader in its own backyard. For that to happen, it needs to be perceived as a Big Brother and not] as a Big Bully. It needs to be a force for stability and progress in the neighbourhood. Pakistan is passing through a difficult phase. It can help it maintain stability and prosperity by strengthening Musharraf’s hands against forces of instability, a stable Pakistan is good for a stable India."

[dost-mittar:http://www.chowk.com/articles/10398

arjun_5#67:

What's wrong with resolving a problem that has been a festering wound for both countries? I think that Musharraf's proposal's came as close to accepting status quo as any Pakistani leader is ever going to accept. Yes, under current conditions, it seems difficult to imagine how Pakistan can change the status quo, but geopolitical forces of equilibrium can change at a future date. Why not put an end to uncertainty? You are right, there probably cannot be a full restoration of normal friendly relations on a permanent basis unless the Kashmir issue is resolved. But one can use the current momentum to at least make sure that both countries get a stake in peaceful resolutions of their problems.

Re: # 91

Sadna:

", would we ever have had an article from you saying 'Modi must be given credit for not having any riots after 2002'."


Don't you think you are making a case for electing gundaas?

sadna#59:

", would we ever have had an article from you saying 'Modi must be given credit for not having any riots after 2002'."

I may not write an article but would agree with the statement as a matter of fact.

Dear Dost

With respect, I do not buy that Musharaf contributed towards peace between India-Pakistan.

He came with the typical goofy Fauji mindset of India-Enemy & Kashmir-Honour. And bleeding India through low intensity conflict (Jihadis).

He thought that he was clever enough to go into history by signing a quicky Peace deal with India - Agra. He screwed up that event by refusing to add `reducing the X-border' Jihadis - something which was a well known fact. And progress on all outstanding issues simultaneously.

Only when he was himslf was attacked, some sane realization dawned on him. He PROBABLY came on Jihadis but never eliminated these so called `Strategic Assets'.

By this time, after having wasted a few years, he agreed to `resolve all issues including Kasmir simultaneously' - something he could have acceeded during the Agra.

Then during the Peace process, he was finicky over trivial issues of Trade & People-to-people contact just on the stupid premise of Quid-pro-Quo. If trade was good for us, that was a good enough reason. If India also gains in the process, so be it.

Meanwhile, he was throwing up all kinds of solutions on Kasmir on his own without even discussing the subject in the Parliament. And voluntarily, giving up the basic stance on Kashmir.

After 8 years, he has reached where the Politicians - Bhutto & Nawaz had already reached. He wasted 8 years.

The Polticians believed & belive NORMAL relations with India in all areas without giving up the basic stance on Kashmir. Kashmir solution will take time & probably will automatically evaporate in an envisaged closer Economic/Political relationship within SAARC.

NHK

HP # 24

``Kargil had nothing to do with India. It was as usual a Pak army ploy to bring down a political government that had just sacked the army COAS for interfering in the political affairs.''

Here you are incorrect. Army guys are not so far-sighted to plan a clever sophisticated revenge like this on a COAS firing.

India & Kashmir are two subjects in which they are regulary brain-washed. And cutting the lines of supply to Siachin was a juicy plan which has exited in the Army since long. I have myself heard Mushharaf give an excited presentation on the subject in 85.

NHK

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