Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment

#262 Posted by pavocavalry,

Thus while it has Pakistan in its pocket because of collaborator generals it cannot manipulate India.....but MORE IMPORTANT because it has Pakistan under its control through the collaborator generals , through this it can influence Indian policy.

I've never heard this argument before. Very interesting. It seems to have a ring of truth. Would you care to elaborate Agha Saheb?

the musharraf clique will do anything to destabilise the new government.

the key generals still think :--

1-Musharraf is indispensable
2-Both PML N and PPP are a threat to the generals , and the generals think that they are the army - total BS in reality , so anyone who is anti generals is a threat to ideologu of Pakistan...hence has to be neutralised or removed.They area also propagating to their US masters that they are the best bet , the old loyal hound , that they are best for dog catching.
3-Two choices are in front of USA.If they want to further destabilise Pakistan they will help the generals or help democracy take its roots in Pakistan.That certainly is not the US choice.Contrary to all propaganda carried out by USA it fears democracy.Thus while it has Pakistan in its pocket because of collaborator generals it cannot manipulate India.....but MORE IMPORTANT because it has Pakistan under its control through the collaborator generals , through this it can influence Indian policy.

Its all a game of grand deception.A body guard of lies.

The peace agreement seems to have broken down:

Bombing in 'Pindi killing a Lt General, the bombing of Levies in Bajaur killing 3 paramilitary personnel, bombing in Laki Marwat the next day targeting a DSP Police and again the same day bombing the deceased's funeral in Swat killing 50 - mainly Police - and this morning an attack on the Govt sponsored Jirga in Darra Adam Khel killing 22 tribal elders (so far).

Consider the following:

1)The Lt. General's killing was followed by the predator missile attack in Waziristan killing 13.

2)The Pak Taliban accepted responsibility for the Bajaur attack but not the Lt. General. No one knows who carried out that attack. According to eyewitnesses it was not targeted and the bomber disguised as a beggar had been waiting for an army vehicle since morning by the roadside. First he approached a Captain's car in the near lane, but then noticed another car with three stars on it stop in the middle-lane and bombed it instead. This is the hallmark of the Jhangvi/Jaish/Tayyaba groups who take indiscriminate revenge. The army obviously took it to be Taliban and retaliated by the predator (which are now based in Pakistan, not Afghanistan). Taliban hit back with Bajaur and accepted responsibility.

3)The DSP killed in Laki Marwat had been transferred from Swat just 2 months ago, and belonged to that area. Since even his funeral was not spared, it points to a revenge operation by the Fazlullah militia.

Above points to a deep fray of various groups (to which I have pointed before), but the Pakistan Army is pinning everything on Pakistani Taliban.

The attack on the 'masharan' Jirga in Darra is a watershed. It could either be the Pak Taliban going again for an all out war with an intensity not seen before, or it could be the Pakistani covert agencies instigating a division within the tribes following the successful Anbar Province example of Iraq. Negraponte's visit is significant in this assumption.

Take your pick.

As for my personal opinion, musharraf seems to have decided to sabotage the budding democracy yet again. Maybe he still has some 'mukkas' left.

A Milestone on the Road to Anarchy

A.H Amin



General Musharraf the military usurper of Pakistan in an article in Washington Post has claimed all credit for holding free and faor elections ! The article appears to be a lobbying attempt with USA in order to get another extension as president of Pakistan for himself.

Not after months of turmoil , but after years of turmoil which have its origins in Pakistani military junta's unconditional collaboration with USA , elections were finally held in Pakistan in 2008.



It is essential that Pakistan should achieve democracy.It is so because a truly democratically elected government will not make the compromises with USA or any other external power like a general who usurped power through the backdoor.When Pakistan's military dictator General Musharraf states that "The government worked tirelessly to ensure that Monday's vote would be free, fair, transparent and peaceful. A broad range of new procedures were put in place -- such as the public counting of ballots at each polling station -- to make certain that this would be the fairest election ever held in Pakistan" this is an insult to Pakistani masses intelligence.A military dictator who usurped power thinks that he did a favour to Pakistan by holding free and fair elections ! What a jugglery of words designed to introduce a conflict of principle ! More so because Musharrafs head of ISI's political section General Zamir admitted in an interview that he rigged the elections of 2002 as Musharraf had ordered !

General Musharraf was fored to hold free and fair elections under severe pressure of USA and its western allies.No compliment to the self proclaimed sincerity of General Musharraf !

The election is historically significant because it has in principle increased political instability in Pakistan by producing a hung parliament.Ripe ground for Pakistani military junta's intelligence agencies to further divide all political forces and make the resultant coalition weak and thus the office of the president stronger.

According to General Musharraf the Pakistani nation faces "three main tasks: defeating terrorism and extremism; building a stable and effective democratic government; and creating a solid foundation for sustained economic growth." He thinks that he can accomplish them and is ready to work with the newly elected Parliament to achieve these objectives.A chronic job seeker , here we have a man who destroyed democracy and now claims credit for restoring it and now wants to work with political parties whose leaders according to him some years deserved to be kicked.In 1999 he created a military organ called NAB and used it to blackmail the vast majority of these politicians.Later the same politicians were blackmailed into joining the kings party called PML Q.

General Musharraf thinks that great challenges are there but also great opportunities exist.He thinks that he is the most suitable man to defeat the challenges and to harness the opportunities.A claim far from reality when in Waziristan the commanding general cannot travel 45 kilometres in jeep by road from Miranshah to Bannu.When Balochistan has been subjected to a massive genocide by military action.When 5 divisions of Pakistan army are struck in tribal areas of Pakistan !

General Musharraf thinks that he is the best bet of USA to fight terrorism.Thus writing an article in Washington Post was part of a strategy to gain extension from USA .

As the Pakistani experience in Bangladesh,Balochistan and Tribal Areas has shown, military force alone is not sufficient. A successful counterinsurgency requires a multi-pronged approach -- military, political and economic.General Musharraf's strategy was to catch some Al Qaeda leaders and sell them to USA as he confessed in his biography.This he did in his own words because Armitage threatened that he will bomb Pakistan to stone age !

He wants the continued support of the United States for Pakistan but above all for himself . He has asked Americans to remember that building democracy is difficult in the best of conditions; doing so in a complex country such as Pakistan -- with its uneasy political history, with its centuries-old regional and feudal cleavages, and with violent extremists dedicated to the defeat of democracy -- is even more challenging. He wants the USA to understand that General Musharraf (Retired) is indispensableif , a peaceful transition to democracy has to be achieved . Although the people of Pakistan clearly demonstrated by their voting that they dont President Musharraf, Musharraf still thinks that he is indispensable.Like Hitler in the last days of power in his bunker thought that some miracle would lead to his triumph or at least survival.General Musharraf thinks that he is indispensable for Pakistan and above all for USA.If USA still believes this theory expounded by Musharraf then the scene is set for diasaster.

General Musharraf is all set to make sure that the parliament elected by Pakistanis in 2008 does not survive for more than an year or two.The horse trading and buying and selling has already commenced.Pakistan is condemned to remain unstable because USA has more faith in Pakistan's generals and its mercenary army which is doing the job of USA's tactical garbage collector than the people of Pakistan.A sad conclusion to the elections of 2008.Pakistan is condemned to greater civil strife and continued instability.That appears to be part of USA's long term strategy !

#257 Posted by vengatramanan,

It may well be, I don't know. My question was how come the rural/agri growth is 2.6% for 70% of population, which after population growth of 1.4% leaves 1.2% to cover inflation, which is around 5%. Does it mean the vast majority of the entire population which is desperately poor is getting even poorer by 4% every year?

Re: # 257

Pareto's curve is not India specific. At the most, the categories might differ.

zeemax,

fyi, we are in the top 5 for most of the horticulture, agriculture and dairy production.

DM ji,

Thanks for the effort to educate me.

Re: # 253 Mr Z wants to wash of hands on Kashmir for trade it appears. The India china dialogue is useless for liberation of Kashmir is not "accounting" problem of Baniyas its about liberation and letting child revert to her mother country from kidnapper.
Now please do not forget still general is head of state who wants the problem tackled and not go on discussion for ever but give and take and finishing of business statred in 1947. Now the Govt is presenting presidents govt so K problem can not be put under cover like NRO or corrouption and white washing of 1.5 Billion dollars stacked all over world. Politicians will sell part of country if it helps them to get elected. No party will survive without supporting Kashmir struggle in words but by action and proactive offensive tactics.

#253 Posted by jayp,

Restoration of the SAME judges (personalities) is inextricably linked to future independence of judiciary. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron and a peon of the west (where's masadi?)

Re your other point "paki legal system and judgements can vary so much between a mushy appointed judge and a Zardari appointed judge|", the formula under consideration to be adopted is the US one where any appointee/nominee is approved by a congressional committee. In Pakistan's case it is proposed to be a combined Parliamentary/Senate Committee.

But of-course you don't know that. Details don't help in the monkey circle jerk!!!

Dost ,

Hvae you ever heard of an all pakistan protest against price rises, against wheat shortage, against corruption, against electricity shortage.

One when TNT is involved, a danish man in pak soil, a lone danish ambassador, well he has to be kicked out. MAJ, you are still alive and kicking the hell of out of the second, of the two nation theory.

Feb 29, 2008 07:41 EST

KARACHI, Feb 29 (Reuters) - Protesters in Pakistan called on Friday for ties with Denmark to be severed over the republication of one of several cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad that led to violence in Muslim countries two years ago.

Rallies were held in Karachi, Quetta, Multan, Hyderbabad, and the capital, Islamabad, where protesters shouted slogans against Denmark and burned U.S. and Danish flags.

"The Danish ambassador should be expelled and Pakistan should immediately end diplomatic ties with that country," Abdul Gafoor Nadeem, an activist of a militant group, told a gathering of about 700 people in Karachi.

Zee 243,

The post was to indicate what happens in india and what the politicians have to do in response to public demands.

Take the case of pakistan, no political party said anything about law and order, nothing about price rises, nothing about mush cooking GDP books. No protests about any of the above, but one stupid cartoon in sweden is a major protest topic through out pakistan. The paost was to point to teh fundamental differences in pak values. At times you all talk about roti kapda makan for pakis, well it is a simple elitist creation by the chokies, who have enough of all that, a transposition of western values on to the pakis, while in fact they are more concerned about religion and supporting jihad.

So leave the content of my post, focus on teh underlying value difference.

Zardari is talking about indo pak trade, that is irrelevant, cutting the military budget is important, but he will not mention it.

All of pakistanis talk about re-appointing the sacked judges. They miss the point that of paki legal system and judgements can vary so mush between a mushy appointed judge and a Zardari appointed judge, well there is no legal system in pakistan that is worth restoring. No one, not even a single paki on chowk dares to address the fundamental issue, why should the legal system be so dependant on the personalities of the judges. If mushy can change the entire legal system by changing a few judges, well paki lawyers can curl up and die in shame.

#251 Posted by dost_mittar on March 1, 2008 5:39:30 pm

sheesh..haven't people heard of this thing called google..

http://www.mindtools.net/GlobCourse/formula.shtml

Let me give you an important factoid(researched by my pakistani friend, the one with whom I watch sa-re-ga-ma)

here's how the paki dictatorship screwed the paki twice over..

first, shortcut aziz faked wheat production numbers to boost the GDP numbers..this was done because india was on a tear at 9+% and pakiland was barely at 7%(with 10% inflation)

the fake GDP growth numbers were used to justify the continuation of the dictatorship.

the paki government is kinda like capt clueless...they fall for their own BS..they allowed the export of wheat based on the fake output numbers.

pakiland had a wheat shortage...inflation for the poorest touched 20%...

vengatraman:

"I don't know the mechanics behind calculating GDP"

Unless the procedure has changed, the output is estimated by a sampling method and multiplied by the price of the commodity in the base year (to avoid the effects of any changes in prices).

Re: # 245

Tahmed sahib:

This is the article:

http://www.chowk.com/articles/4913

Believe it or not last year I got an email from someone in Gauhati, who wrote that he had class discussions and this article was used in discussions. Chowk is read beyond what I thought.

The grapes were sour AND poisonous...

Kashmir issue can wait: Zardari

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ISLAMABAD: In a major shift from Pakistan's long-standing position, PPP co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari, whose party is set to take reins of the country, has expressed readiness to set aside the Kashmir issue to focus on other aspects for improving relations with India.

He emphasised that the relations between India and Pakistan should not be held "hostage" to the Kashmir issue and that the two countries "can wait" so that future generations resolve the dispute in a mature manner in an atmosphere of "trust".

In views reflecting India's position, Zardari said he was determined to break the barriers and mindsets that deter trade between the two countries.

"The idea is that we feel for Kashmir, the PPP (Pakistan People's Party) has always felt for Kashmir. We have a strong Kashmir policy. We have always had one," he said.

"But having said that, we don't want to be hostage to that situation. That is a situation we can agree to disagree (on). Countries do, we have positions, you have positions. We can agree to disagree on everything," he said in a television interview.

Noting that India and Pakistan could "agree to disagree on (the UN resolutions)," he said "We can wait. We can be patient till everybody grows up further. Maybe the coming generation grows up even further and then let's interact as human beings and come to a position of love."

Re: # 247

Fyi, the rural population of India has a better personal disposable income than others.