Reinterpretation of Islam in Turkey

Hamidumdum Sahib,
Mrs. Salim is more Islamic than ever. :( We just returned from Spain and Italy and she was very upset that the frickin Catholics turned the Great Mosque of Cordoba into a Cathedral. Now she wants to turn the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul back to a mosque from the museum that it's today thanks to Ataturk.

I don't think that she is ready to concede that the Holy Koran only forbids intoxication and not alcohol. Anyway, I like this Turkish government of Tayyep Erdogan and his Islamists - very modern, honest, and good for the economy. Corruption has almost vanished. :)

Re: # 209

DM sahib

Mr Gian sarup a fellow khatri like u wants to contact u .his mail id is gsarup@verizon.net.
he is a retired professor staying in chicago n is trying to get in touch with u for quite sometime after reading your article on amazing khatris of punjab.

rgds

vivek

Re: # 288

salim mian,

.... how many times do i have to tell you that beer and wine and raki and whiskey is islamic ! .... if you don't believe me, ask tahmed ...... there is nothing in the koran that forbids drinking and just because omar was a sloppy drunk doesn't mean we have to suffer sobriety ..... mrs hamidm believes it and i am sure mrs salim will believe it too if you try and talk to her ...... if she doesn't listen then point out section 4:24 of al-lah's code

hamidumdum Sahib #272 {"salim mian,
.... it is nice to see you back and in great form ..... how long do you think it will be before the turks 'revert' and outlaw raki ? ..... as much as i would like to believe in 'moderate islam' it just seems to be an impossible oxymoron ..... cheers "}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
Thank you, sir, for the warm welcome and my apologies for any ghustaakhees. You are a good sport. I had always thought that if we left you and Urstruly Sahib alone with a bottle of Chateau Neuf du Pape, you two would solve all the problems with Islam and modernity. Now, I am more inclined to believe that all we would end up with is a pair of inebriated suicide bombers. :)

As for that raki stuff, it should have been outlawed along with that awful Turki Topi or the fez. Now, Efes Beer is something to go EVET over. Chok Guzel. :) One day, when beer is deemed Islamic, I will once again enjoy the simple pleasure of having halal kilbasa with Efes beer.

anil #276 {"Salim Sahib:
"we don't drink in the mosque and we don't pray in the bar."
How will you say this in Sanskrit, so that orange fundoos can learn? "}

Anil Bhayee,
In Sanskrit:
"Mandira madhye na nipibati Paapaatman madhye na pranaya"

In Arabic:
"Minal masjid la drinkiyoon, minal baitul sharaab la namajiyyon."

Thank me very much. :)

anil #275 {"Salim sahib:
You always amaze me of your talent. Do you plan to open a school to train? I want to attend that "School of Salim's Excellence". "}

Anil Bhayee,
I give all the credit to my many enemas. :)

Oh crap..islam is getting diluted, muddled, un-jihadified..kaal..inko bachao

Al-Qaeda is losing the war of minds
By Peter Wehner

Published: March 4 2008 18:39 | Last updated: March 4 2008 18:39

The US “surge” in Iraq has been so manifestly successful that no serious person can deny that gains have been made. Even Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have (grudgingly) conceded progress. Yet both Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama are quick to add that progress has been purely on the military side and that those gains are ephemeral. This fits with their broader narrative – that the war has been a disaster on every front.

During a recent Democratic debate, for example, Mr Obama declared: “We are seeing al-Qaeda stronger now than at any time since 2001.” Mrs Clinton says President George W. Bush’s policies in Iraq have “emboldened our enemies”. We should leave Iraq, she says, so we can better focus on the threat of al-Qaeda.

In fact, in large measure because of what is unfolding in Iraq, the tide within the Islamic world is beginning to run strongly against al-Qaeda – and this, in turn, may be the single most important ideological development in recent years.

In November 2007 Sayyid Imam al-Sharif (“Dr Fadl”) published his book, Rationalizations on Jihad in Egypt and the World, in serialised form. Mr Sharif, who is Egyptian, argues that the use of violence to overthrow Islamic governments is religiously unlawful and practically harmful. He also recommends the formation of a special Islamic court to try Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda’s number two and its ideological leader, and calls the attacks on September 11 2001 a “catastrophe for all Muslims”.

Mr Sharif’s words are significant because he was once a mentor to Mr Zawahiri. Mr Sharif, who wrote the book in a Cairo prison, is “a living legend within the global jihadist movement”, according to Jarret Brachman, a terrorism expert.

Another important event occurred in October 2007, when Sheikh Abd Al-‘Aziz bin Abdallah Aal Al-Sheikh, the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, issued a fatwa prohibiting Saudi youth from engaging in jihad abroad. It states: “I urge my brothers the ulama [the top class of Muslim clergy] to clarify the truth to the public . . . to warn [youth] of the consequences of being drawn to arbitrary opinions and [religious] zeal that is not based on religious knowledge.” The target of the fatwa is obvious: Mr bin Laden.

A month earlier Sheikh Salman al-Awdah, an influential Saudi cleric whom Mr bin Laden once lionised, wrote an “open letter” condemning Mr bin Laden. “Brother Osama, how much blood has been spilt? How many innocents among children, elderly, the weak, and women have been killed and made homeless in the name of al-Qaeda?” Sheikh Awdah wrote. “The ruin of an entire people, as is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq ... cannot make Muslims happy.”

These criticisms by prominent voices within the jihadist movement should be seen in the context of an even more significant development: the “Anbar Awakening” now spreading throughout Iraq. Just 18 months ago Anbar province was the stronghold of al-Qaeda in Iraq; today it is known as the birthplace of an Iraqi and Islamic grass-roots uprising against al-Qaeda as an organisation and bin Ladenism as an ideology. It is an extraordinary transformation: Iraqis en masse siding with America, the “infidel” and a western “occupying power”, to defeat Islamic militants.

Not surprisingly, al-Qaeda’s stock is falling in much of the Arab and Islamic world. A recent survey found that in January less than a quarter of Pakistanis approved of Mr bin Laden, compared with 46 per cent last August, while backing for al-Qaeda fell from 33 per cent to 18 per cent.

According to a July 2007 report from the Pew Global Attitudes Project, “large and growing numbers of Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere [are] rejecting Islamic extremism”. The percentage of Muslims saying suicide bombing is justified in the defence of Islam has declined in seven of the eight Arab countries where trend data are available. In Lebanon, for example, 34 per cent of Muslims say such suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified; in 2002, 74 per cent expressed this view. We are also seeing large drops in support for Mr bin Laden. These have occurred since the Iraq war began.

Since General David Petraeus put in place his counter-insurgency strategy early last year, al-Qaeda has been dealt punishing military blows. Iraqis continue to turn against al-Qaeda and so does more of the Arab and Muslim world. In the past half-year an important new front, led by prominent Islamic clerics, has been opened. Militarily, ideologically and in terms of popular support, these are bad days for Mr bin Laden and his jihadist jackals.

If we continue to build on these developments, the Iraq war, once thought to be a colossal failure, could turn out be a positive and even a pivotal event in our struggle against militant Islam. Having paid a high cost in blood and treasure and having embraced the wrong strategy for far too long, we stayed in the fight, proving that America was not the “weak horse” Mr bin Laden believed it to be. Having stayed in the fight, we may prevail in it. The best way to subvert the appeal of bin Ladenism is to defeat those who take up the sword in its name.

We are a long way from winning in Iraq. It remains a traumatised nation and the progress made can be lost. But the trajectory of events is at last in our favour and a good outcome is within our grasp. If we succeed it will have enormously positive effects beyond Iraq.


The writer, formerly deputy assistant to President George W. Bush, is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008

Re: # 246
There is nothing called age of reason. The mediaval period was dark period ( you can tell age of not reason), and that has produced barbarism like Islam. Ancient period was age of reason. In ancient Greece and India wise men used to gather and engage in discussion. Who used to provide better explanation, he used to win. They have created various streams of philosophy This tradition was destroyed in India after Islamic invastion. If, Islam provides absolute truth, it would have been self conatianed civilisation and sufficient for survival. It would not have used violence as means to establish. But history tells different story. Sword of Islam was ahead of Islam ( First moslems conquered Persia, then with subjugation and unfair means they have turned it into a Islamic nation. The same story repeated for Pakistan). If Islam was so good, it would have the other way ( Budhdism was purely spread by scholars). Islam is mainly responsible for the sad state of moslem countries of Africa and Asia. The events of Muhammed's life (looting , killing, raping, cheating) never creates a good example of human being to follow. And that have created a serious crisis of human value in islamic nations. Be it in the form of failed state index, corruption index, dismal record of human rights.

Re: # 277
cheemaji,
Trying to teach anything to tahmed is like casting pearls before a swine. He is incapable of learning. All he needs to learn, he already learned from the book. If he is given a choice to keep one book from all the compendium of human
knowledge he would undoubtedly chose the book.
Hinduism for all its faults, keeps the mind open to learning. Nothing is final. You may find a new prophet, new God or you mary find a new way to Truth or you may find that you yourself are God. It is a never ending search. There are no limits. Thats is the reason hindus do better
in learning and are more tolerant of other faiths including of non believers. Killing this love of knowledge, of seeking, is the single worst trait of religions like Islam. Ofcourse we would expect tahmeds of the world to deny that because they know no better that that is included in the book. And the information content of the book and the message it conveys is not even clear enough among the tahmeds but they still chose to believe that it is ultimate
truth while hypocritically enjoying the benefits science and the logical mind.
regards

Re: # 280

Hamidm Sahib:

You must not feel depressed for vegetarian being the recipient. Your heart in new incarnation will not have to pump so much, and certainly will say, wish Hamidm sahib was here. He was such a nice man indeed.

Re: # 278

Cheers!

I try not to lump most modern christians with "our lot"; in our study, the Anglicans and Catholics didn't do too bad; worse of the Christian group were the "Greek Orthodox"; also it was related to the "distance" from their mother countries, inversely proportional in terms of objections to the concept; something that can be explained more by culture than belief.

The Muslims were by far the worst; had tens of recipients but NOT A SINGLE donor! Also, the data showed no variations related to ethnicity, "distance" from mother culture etc. The only common factor was "belief".

To be honest with you, christianity was all but dead until recently. The newly found evangelism in some western countries has more to do with a reaction to, or a renewed interest because of the growing visible presence of muslims every where. Needless to say I find it irritating and a cause for concern.

In my part of the world (the UK), more than 45% of the general population surveyed, doesn't have a belief in a god. Same statistics can be found in the Scandenavia, Germany, Netherlands, and other western european countries. Although, a lot of these individuals would still "traditionally" identify as catholics, church of England etc, more for the sake of cultural solidarity.

There IS something special about Islam; read the Koran and there is so much emphasis on one's duty to god rather than, by comparison, our duty to our fellow man/woman.

Why is this god so needy? Why does he get so jealous if someone prostrates to another? Why does he have so many of OUR HUMAN weaknesses? Quite frankly, why is he so pathetic?!

Re: # 279

anil mian,

damn the mullah and pundit ! .... i am more worried about my liver having a miserable life - that's why i would rather donate it to a wino who will provide it with proper nourishment and take good care of it ...... like i said, i don't want it dying from withdrawal after my death .... the only thing worse would be giving my body parts to a vegetarian - they would die of boredom

Re: # 278

Hamidm Sahib:

On the other hand, consider what alchohol can do your organs and beautiful gesture.

Can you imagine a mullah or pundit may have to live rest of his knowing inside the heart or whatever else is that of Hamidm Sahib? Just think what Massaddi Mian may have to live the rest of his life.

Re: # 277

cheema sahib,

..... in my experience overtly 'religious' people - deacons in their church, sunday scool teachers, people with the mark of the devil on their forehead - are mean spirited and callous when it comes to dealing with their fellow man ...... i have always maintained that since these people feel that rhey have made peace with their lord they can f*uk over man ..... all this crap about haqooq ul this and that is hog wash ........

..... you will be glad to know that i signed up to donate all my organs when i got my driver's permit - in the states all you have to do is put it on the back of your license ...... however, i am worried about my body parts being abused by some believer in a church or mosque ..... it will be ironic if my liver dies because of withdrawal after my death ...... what a waste

Re: # 261

tahmed, you look like a decent man who is trying to find some meaning in this world.

I'd ask the same question as before; why do we need god to be good or bad? There are a lot of atheists I know who are far more moral than believers; why not just move on and find your own interpretation for every one of life's dilemmas; wouldn't that be even more liberating?

Unfortunately, muslim history ("mainstream")and current majority would disagree with your interpretation therefore its hardly something to hang your hat on for the purpose of a debate on "re-interpretation of Islam" for the entire Ummah. In this sense, Zeemax perhaps does represent the "mainstream" view of at 1 out of the 1.2 billion muslims out there.

An interesting observation I'd like to share here. During my surgical training, I also gained some experience in organ transplantation. A big chunk of the kidney transplants were performed using organs from "living-donors". Since we have access to patient's demographic data, I was astonished to find out that an overwhelming majority of "live-donors" came from the "non-believers/atheists" group; openly religious people, though gladly were the recipients in many cases, would hardly come forward to donate a kidney for an unwell relative or friend. Muslims were the worst; not a single donor in my whole year (despite a big population in Sydney and well represented on the recipient lists!). Can you explain that?

Same was also true for "deceased-donors"; after death, it was far more likely for a non-religious family to donate their loved one's organs than the religious group; again, not a single muslim despite there being many happy recipients!

My friend, you don't need the sky fairy to tell you what's right or wrong! It either comes from within or doesn't. God/religion, if anything, get in the way. Otherwise we won't have any corruption, neputism, bribary, rape, murder, stealing (just to name a few) vices in the muslim world.

Re: # 268

Salim Sahib:

"we don't drink in the mosque and we don't pray in the bar."

How will you say this in Sanskrit, so that orange fundoos can learn?

Are there other gems you can translate in Arabic to sound official for Pakistani awam?