How did Hindus Become Vegetarians?

Urstruly, you are going way too much out of your way to take the "science types" along.

Were I a man of faith, I would tell hyper smart 'science types' to go take a very long hike.

Understanding God's work 'scientifically' can be/is fun. It may even be a human duty. But God's work can never be held hostage to human understanding now, or at any other point in time in future.

FAITH, for it to not be just superstition, MUST COME FIRST AND FOREMOST. It must be the font from which all else flows. Then, it may be (for many, must be) strengthended with thinking, understanding, analysis, and all other human endeavors.


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Hindus/ Mirzais turn that upside down. No wonder they flounder faithlessly. Urstruly, you CANNOT convince Hindus/mirzais of anything, since they do not begin with God first. They begin with the human being, and construct up a God that best passes the test of their intelligence at any time.

#209 Posted by sattar2,

There's no contradiction between what Kal says and what I say. If God can make man out of a clot of blood, He can certainly make horses fly. It's just that everyone has seen the former happen but not the latter.

My assumption regarding such things as being imagery was because I don't know why flying horses would be necessary, while making man out of clots of blood is.

Re: # 209

Sattar bhai, this "symbolism vs superstition" reminds me of the following quote I read somewhere:

“The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Eklavya has got it right; he is knowledgeable, likes to learn but does it purely to quench his thirst for knowledge; without having to carry any baggage of "belief"; an enviable position for any right-minded person I reckon.

#210 Posted by sattar2 on March 4, 2008 3:04:49 pm

Sattar,

U seem 2 be a know-all guy. How and why u equate Palestine and Kashmir?

Is that Jekyll & Hyde in Ahmadis that shows up now and then?

Bhatti Sahib,

So it is ok to lock up Ahamdis for considering themselves Muslim. What “Principle of Reciprocity” were you alluding to earlier?

If it was ok for Muslim to kill apostates, then it is ok for others to do the same to Muslims. No? So one should simply ignore plight of Muslims in Bosnia, Palestine, Kashmir … and move on.

zeemax (#191),

If I recall correctly, you used the term ”superstition” to describe the Muslim beliefs in question. But let’s call it "symbolism", if you so prefer.

While the symbolism label is cute, note that god does what he wills (check with kaal – he knows all about it). So a flying prophet may actually exist … and as a good Muslim, you should not feel awkward believing any of this, esp. now that Urstruly, Bhatti too back this up.

Read the latest gem from Urstruly (#200). Once again he has dazzled us with his brilliance. What you conveniently call symbolism … is part and parcel of Muslim faith today. You are living in denial and misleading kaal … it’s not good, you know!

+++

Kaal Sahib, forget Ahamdis … your own chief zeemax has issues with flying prophets. Sometimes he calls it superstition … and sometimes symbolism. Can you straighten him out first before worrying about me?

#207 Posted by CreateAlpha

OK, OK ... CreateAlpha zindabad!

Sh.t, I am running out of zindabads.

I beg to differ GT. I was saying that way before hamid. from what I recall he was kneeling and bobbing still while i pointed out to the paranoid schizophrenia induced by hallucinagens among prophets in the Mid east. give props where props are due..son!!!

#205 Posted by CreateAlpha,

Big deal. Our resident Nobel laureate, Hamid sahib has been saying this for ages.

what kaal wants to say is that if you are a person of faith you are an idiot. Ain't that right kaal. stop mincing words bhaijaan...say it how it is. Now read below kaal, very carefully...and tell me if you are smoking the same shit mohammed did in the cave

Moses was high on drugs: Israeli researcher Tue Mar 4, 7:02 AM ET



JERUSALEM (AFP) - High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week.

Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.

"As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics," Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.

Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the "burning bush," suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances.

"The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a clasic phenomenon," he said citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to "see music."

He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil's Amazon forest in 1991. "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," Shanon said.

He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible.

gtg catch u guys tomorrow... good night....

Re: # 201

Brother urstruly,

Please follow the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity

Even then if you want to know something, I'll try my best....

Sattar saab,

if a secular country like india can provide subsidy on hajj and vishnu yatra then why shouldn't a government of islamic country take side in the issue where muslim identity is at stake.

As far as killing of opostates (whatever the spellings) is concerned. Let me explain it how I beleive it. In my opinion every prophet came up with clear and irrefutable evidence. Those who did not converted to faith and moreover tried to oppose by teasing prophet got destroyed. This happened to noah, loot and other prophets audience nation. In case of last prophet those who accepted in his time and then reverted are given death in the same prophetic tradition. But after the time of prophet this is no more valid.

Re: # 199

I would like to be educated and corrected in this regard.

Re: # 197

Eklavya:

I think a part of blame goes to the believers as well who when argue with atheists who masquerade as "science types", have to speak a common language. For example, take the example of the 'floating stones" that Lord Ram used to build a bridge from mainland India to Sri Lanka to rescue Sita. A science guy will reject the notion of a floating stone right away. But we now know that the floating stones do exist in the world even though very rare. It is those meteors that contain high silica content. When these meteors enter Earth's atmosphere they start heat up to several hundred degrees; the silica in the stones turns into liquid glass and traps bubbles of air in them. So as they touch the earth surface they start cooling down with air still trapped in them. This trapped air provides the necessary buoyancy to keep those stones afloat. Here we solve on part of the atheist's problem whose science contention was that "stones do not float". Well they do, if you do not know about them then it does not mean that they do not exist. Now their next question would be about the logistics of carrying those stones to sea and even finding them in a large quantity etc.

A similar argument is made by Muslims who propound Einstein's theory of relativity and the concept of Time Dilation to explain to science types how it was possible for Holy Prophet (pbuh) to travel to Jerusalem, heavens, and back to Medina in a split second in one night. Isn't it interesting that as the human conscience is growing it is finding answers to mind boggling paradoxes by itself.

Re: # 188

brother urstruly,

The way you understood concept of reciprocity is totaly out of the place. You are treating this in the same way as concept of "eye for an eye" was treated by law of hamurabi. e.g. if one kills wife of other, his wife will be killed as a punishment.. needless to say this eye for an eye explanation was wiered and wrong. So is your understanding about reciprocity...