How did Hindus Become Vegetarians?

Re: # 71
[...ehen the majority is as clueless and suicidal as Indian Hindus...]

Actually, hindus are not really that "clueless", as you say...

Hindus have always known exactly what they are dealing with... and have takens steps to reduce the problem in various ways... partition was first such step... as YLH would tell you, it was congress which caused partition to happen... of course, then they tried to "balance" the things by "pandering" to the decimated remaining muslims, that was a mistake...

which is why BJP and their fellow-travellers have become a force in politics, pandering was going a little too far...

So don't worry about hinuds... they are neither clueless, nor suicidal, in fact - they have gone a step beyond what was required... hard-handed treatment given out in gujrat and kashmir being examples...

Re: # 70 hamid

don't worry about it - the "pandering" is almost a thing of past, except for commie infested areas... why do you think Modi is considered a big shot "leader" these days?... According some people - he is supposed to be the Prime Minister in waiting...

Even though that would be a gross violation justice, but looks like it will take a person like Modi to set things back where it should have been in the first place...

urstruly, since old texts/history etc don't matter to us much in shaping current and future life, not many of us specialize in studying them. But there is no basis at all to doubt Mr. Baig's integrity in quoting or highlighting whatever he thought was relevant. Also, remember, this cow issue itself is not such a big deal. There have been Indian/Hindu scholars who have arrived at similar conclusions before - that eating meat was common in India, and beef was eaten as well.

Mr. Baig's contribution here was putting that already existing research in Hindu/Muslim political conflictual terms.

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hamidm2, Muslims have no reason to not live as mostly peaceful majority. They may (and invariably will) fight among themselves, but for the most part, they should be peaceful toward minorities.

Again, I have more confidence in Islam than you do. I actually quite admire Islam's clear approach to religious minorities.

The issue, hamdim2, is always what to do with Islamic minorities, particularly when the majority is as clueless and suicidal as Indian Hindus.

Don't you sometimes read posts by Indian Hindus and go: "What are these guys thinking?"?

There are some deep logical gaps in traditional Hinduism. Those gaps keep even the smartest Hindus from understanding Islam as it is. Consequently, they either hate it (thinking of it as worse than it is even from their pov) or talk foolishly about this large group of Muslims being different from that large group.


Anyways, we got sidetracked. :)

Re: # 68

eklavya,

... i hate to say this, but you guys are making a big mistake by pandering to the indian muslims ..... remember, muslims have never been able to live as a peaceful majority - it is only a matter of time before the green flag is once again flying from the ramparts of the delhi fort ........ good luck

Re: # 68

Thank you. Now I understand your POV better. But politics aside, do you see an academic merit to his historical and religious refernces? Personally, I have no clue about their authenticity, so I want to hear from a horses mouth.

urstruly, this is a exclusively Indian problem. Pakistan was very lucky to solve this problem, and doesn't confront it anymore. Hopefully, it can be explained in simple terms. Only, it will require a bit of thinking from the 'Hindu" point of view. So I request your patience, and if I don't make any sense at all, do accept my apologies in advance.

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Urstruly, in 1947, Hindu leaders - Gandhi and Nehru - chose to shut their eyes, and continue Hindu-Muslim strife and politicking. The issue of Muslim identity that logically should have been put to rest in India was revived, supported, and continues to be with us. It is is getting stronger, as anyone who knows anything about Islam would expect.

Consider what has happened to Taslima Nasreen. To be fair, she cannot be acceptable to any believing Muslim.

A key element, urstruly, of Indian Muslim identity has been killing cows and eating beef. Many Hindus too do the same and don't care two hoots about really about the cow; but for Indian Muslims, the approach to cow has been anything but lackadaisical: aggressive slaughtering of cows and eating of beef has almost a 'local' religious condition.

True, there may even be some vegetarian Indian Muslims, but in general, the willingess to eat beef has been an identity marker for Muslims, in general.

It is an in-your-face statement, of clearly rejecting the Hindu identity, and creating and strengthing a non-Hindu, Islamic Indian political identity.

Quite like, although the scales and universalities of opinions are different, tearing and stomping over a copy of the Quran would be for some Hindus in Pakistan, were they similarly inclined, and had similarly clear/passionate beliefs. Indian Muslims have proudly considered doing something equivalent, in the eyes of SOME Hindus, almost their right and their obligation.

Now, a FEW Hindus have, as Mr Baig mentioned, begun to pay attention in political terms. This has not yet gone to the extent of Hindus tearing up and stomping over copies of the Quran (and I hope it doesn't have to), but has begun to show up in SOME Hindus beginning to emphasize their determination to 'protect' the cow. Mr. Baig clearly disapproves of this trend, as we would expect him to.

So, now, you may get a feel of the political game that Mr Murad started, and we played briefly.
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Obviously, this is an absurd and tragic situation in that Indians/Hindus - no matter what their religious beliefs - should not have to confront, just as Pakistani Muslims don't face it at least in their own country.

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Please, this is a Hindu flat earthers view! It does not reflect the opinions of most other good Hindus for whom political identity is a complete non-issue. What's more, there are also many Hindus who are extremely afraid that we Hindu flat earthers are going to force them and their children to become equally backward flat earthers too!! Such Hindus would even support Mr. Baig. :)

Re: # 64
a straight answer would have been nice

seriously...what's up with hindoos..you should try beef..just don't start with the mcdonalds/bk crap...start off with the small burger places..


That's right. I'd suggest any good American restaurant, (not a chain) that serves steak tips and rice, medium well.

and muslims...pork is actually very delicious...and it's white meat too...


Bacon strips along with omelette / toast for weekend brunches is a good start.

you're invited..my pet pig mohammad is part of the main course...

:-)

For some reason I just assumed that Harimau would be a vegetarian too. But it may be, I am the only one living in dark ages! :) :)

arjun, it will take time for beef to become just another meat for many Hindus. The change will occur mostly over generations. But believe me, at least in the US, every year it is becoming harder to find another totally vegetarian Hindu, and the number of Hindus who actually like beef is increasing every day. As expected, the trend is most noticeable among younger folks. People like Harimau and me are stuck in a time warp, and some of us know that. :)

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Urstruly, a fair question.

Mr. Murad started a little political game and we played briefly. The cows was not the issue for Mr. Murad or for us.

Some Hindus seemed genuinely taken aback that Mr. Murad would hold views that they would expect only an outsider to hold.
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vengat #62, that's so cool.

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slyder

Verse 100: To utter harsh words when sweet ones would serve Is like eating unripe fruit when ripe ones are at hand.

Thirukkural

Baig saab doesn't claim that a majority of hingboos are veggies, rather he questions why some hingboos consider vegetarianism as part of their religion. You understand the distinction, but being shameless penchod hingboos, you take this opportunity to bash a minority member.


slyder:

I don't normally respond to insulting comments, but since this is a weekend and I have some spare time i'll indulge in disabusing you.

Don't you think Baig saab should then have used a different title?. It is like writing "How did Muslims become terrorists" and then claiming in a comment that "Muslims" in the title actually refer to some Muslims who consider terrorism as a part of their religion. :-)

Re: # 58 Eklavya

You seem like a reasonable person to have a discourse with. Could you please help me understand why Hindus almost universally found this writing by Murad so offensive. What does it mean when you say that Murad is ""wrong and misguided"

Re: # 53

Let me try to make you understand. Vegetarianism is indeed practiced at differing degrees within various Hindu communities. We abstain on selected days of a week. We don't have non-veg on Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays. We don't eat on the Hindu holy days. We don't eat on the day of visiting temple or pilgrimage. We don't eat in the month of ' Purattasi - Tamil month '. Women of the family almost remain veggies . You will have to forego non-veg diet, for 40+ days, to enter Ayappa's temple. Though 100% Hindus are not
veggies, vegetarianism is practiced at differing intensities. It ranges from complete abstinence to partial. My paternal uncle is a pure veggie.

Its for you to infer now.

ali_1 bhai, all that is true, but Murad A Baig is still both wrong and misguided.

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#56, why lift a hand when the flick of a finger would get rid of a trouble?

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Anyways, we can leave ali_1 bhai and Murad Sahib alone to arrive at whatever consensus they want according to their common needs.

Later, my friends.